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With a Balor, you're more likely to go to the AByss, IF you comply with ther Balor's demands... because if you want service from it, it will demand evil services in exchange... of course, if you don't comply the Balor is likely to begrudge you and mark you for death...
FOr the solar, you'll still have to demonstrate that saving Golarion is worth its while, and that it's necessary to have him intervene rather than, say, you using your own not inconsiderable powers to correct whatever situation there is.
Also, if your solar summoning was frivolous, it will be very cross at you, and if you're not good, it's likely to regard you as part of the problem than of the solution.
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If you call a balor to kill and torture angels. He will be happy, but he maybe want to do better things, or his own things.
If you call a solarion, same. Golarion is in danger. Yeah, but he was saving golarion from other thing before being called. And he is very busy doing angel things.
Both can be hired. And both will be expensive.
Maybe one ask you to disease a entire city to be paid abd other ask you to heal a entire city...
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As long as Golarion is actually in danger... maybe. I mean, a Solar might have better things to do. There's a lot of worlds out there, Golarion is just one. And yes, trying to deal with a Balor or Pit Fiend is a terrible idea. Making a deal with the devil is a bad thing and always ends badly. For just one combat you don't need to though (you get rounds/level), you only need to make a deal if it's longer.
While I wholeheartedly agree with the notion unfortunately it depends on your GM. Some GMs don't care, unfortunately.
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Gate is normally always successful, then again, I've never played at a level where Gate spells were used.
You seem to have several things confused, but I'll try to go over them with you.
I understand English isn't your first language, so I'll try to go through this clearly, but please ask for clarification, if you need any.
Using the gate spell allows you to call a creature. The spell states:
Calling Creatures: The second effect of the gate spell is to call an extraplanar creature to your aid (a calling effect). By naming a particular being or kind of being as you cast the spell, you cause the gate to open in the immediate vicinity of the desired creature and pull the subject through, willing or unwilling. Deities and unique beings are under no compulsion to come through the gate, although they may choose to do so of their own accord. This use of the spell creates a gate that remains open just long enough to transport the called creatures. This use of the spell has a material cost of 10,000 gp in rare incense and offerings. This cost is in addition to any cost that must be paid to the called creatures.
If you choose to call a kind of creature instead of a known individual, you may call either a single creature or several creatures. In either case, their total HD cannot exceed twice your caster level. In the case of a single creature, you can control it if its HD does not exceed your caster level. A creature with more HD than your caster level can’t be controlled. Deities and unique beings cannot be controlled in any event. An uncontrolled being acts as it pleases, making the calling of such creatures rather dangerous. An uncontrolled being may return to its home plane at any time.
If you choose to exact a longer or more involved form of service from a called creature, you must offer some fair trade in return for that service. The service exacted must be reasonable with respect to the promised favor or reward; see the lesser planar ally spell for appropriate rewards. Some creatures may want their payment in “livestock” rather than in coin, which could involve complications. Immediately upon completion of the service, the being is transported to your vicinity, and you must then and there turn over the promised reward. After this is done, the creature is instantly freed to return to its own plane.
Failure to fulfill the promise to the letter results in your being subjected to service by the creature or by its liege and master, at the very least. At worst, the creature or its kin may attack you.
So you can control a number of creatures with hit dice (HD) equal to or less than twice your caster level (CL). Gate is a very powerful spell - a 9th level spell. That means, you have, at minimum, a caster level of 17.
(CL*2) = 17*2 = 20+14 = 34 HD.
That is, you can control up to 34 HD or less. Incidentally, this is how many hit dice you can summon, as well.
But you can't control a given creature with more hit dice (HD) than your caster level (CL). Gate is a very powerful spell - a 9th level spell. That means, you have, at minimum, a caster level of 17, and a maximum of 20 (give or take).
Balor: this creature has 20 hit dice. You can control it only if your caster level is 20 or higher.
Solar: this creature has 22 hit dice. You can control it only if your caster level is 22 or higher.
What that means is this: you will never be able to control a solar. You can force them through the gate, but you will not be able to control their actions.
And solars are busy.
They take care of the really important stuff that others either can't or won't. They are the right hands of gods, and they're the generals leading the fight against foes of all that is good and holy. They often are either on the front lines, or they are the front lines. They guard the sacred places that life cannot exist without. They keep the light of reality shining against the ever-encroaching forces of eradication.
So you tell it, "The whole of Golarion is in danger! I need your help, please!"
One very likely response: "What, exactly, do you think I've been doing this whole time?! You're the local heroes, it's your job to take care of this problem!" and they instantly gate themselves back to the battle, muttering something about foolish mortals and speaking prayers that they're "not too late" or whatever.
So, yes, you can gate in a solar, but you can't control it (under normal circumstances), and, unless something obvious is happening, you're just as likely to tick them off by forcing them to expend resources to go back immediately as you are to get them to stick around - and then you're 10,000 gold the poorer.
That said, if the need is great enough, and you're willing to honor them, and they're able to commit their resources right now: yes, sure, absolutely. They're glad to help.
This is, of course, not the only response. Some are happy to help. Some have more free time (though they might be irritable that you've interrupted their first vacation in the last 500,000 millennia, or so - look, they only have the week off, okay?), and some might just be super-powerful administrators that are probably okay with missing on the job for a short time ("Pray with me that heaven's bureaucracy can continue without me. It should, but if there are important decisions only I can make..."). But which responses vary, and, unless you have a specific name (which requires a quest), you can't know which kind you're calling.
Balors, on the other hand, you can control... if you're strong enough.
That means that you don't have to care what they are or how powerful or what's going on for them back home. You can own them as soon as they step through that gate.
Do they have qualms with doing whatever you want? Tough. For them. Because you have the power in this relationship.
Now, if the task you have is too long and involved, you're going to have to pay them. But if you stick to simple, "Hey, kill all the bag guys that oppose my goals in this complex." you're going to be fine.
Now onto a minor nuance or clarification.
In Golarion's game-world, there are three different "bad" places in the afterlife:
- the abyss
- abaddon
- hell
The abyss is where demons come from, and is chaotic evil.
Abaddon is where daemons come from, and is neutral evil.
Hell is where devils come from, and is lawful evil.
By calling a demon (like a balor) you associate yourself with the abyss, not hell.
Angels can come from any of the good planes:
- Celestia/Heaven: the lawful good afterlife; also associated with archons.
- Nirvana: the neutral good afterlife; also associated with agathions.
- Elysium: the chaotic good afterlife; also associated with azatas.
Which plane they're from determines the angel's probable alignment (lawful good, neutral good, or chaotic good).
Hope that helps!
By the way, ^^^^ this ^^^^ is not an attempt to say that you should summon demons, instead of angels. In truth, summoning angels is much, much better. But yous should probably summon slightly lesser angels, rather than solars, unless you have incredibly good reason.
Dang it.
I answered the other thread, not realizing this one was a thing. Oops.
ANYWAY: I've used gate successfully.
The short version (though others have mostly covered this, here): don't summon demons, they suck. Don't bother with balors. Try not to bother solars - they're busy and you can't control them anyway.
Shoot for something that has less hit dice than your caster level, and treat it well.
There's no real need to summon more powerful creatures, anyway, as you can get pretty much everything you need or want with the slightly less powerful ones.
If you summon a balor, you don't automatically go to the abyss, but you associate with chaos and evil, so you get closer to it.
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Solars have 22 HD, thus they cannot be controlled.
Can’t Augment Calling and the Caller’s Feather increase the HD limit of what you can call? Raising 18 to 22 doesn’t seem too hard of a task.
Fair! However, though the feather functions for gate, the feat does not (the OP mentioned only gate; I was working under that question). Also, planar binding really, really will tick off the solar (and would be a bad thing to do,usually), so you'd need to be a cleric, while planar ally will cost you over twice as much as gate, and requires ten minutes to cast instead of 1 standard action. But the feather would let you control them, yes. :)
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It's equal difficulty to summon or gate. The trouble is bargaining with a called creature. Called creatures aren't automatically under your control. This is why summoners use magic circle against evil turned inwards. Usually bargaining with any good outsider is going to be less troublesome than bargaining with any evil outsiders.
I'll admit I'm kinda miffed at how they deliberately set good outsiders at 1 hit die higher than equivalent CR fiends. It completely sinks attempts to use planar calling with more than 1 at a time.
One of my favorite movie lines ever, from the Prophecy
"Did you ever notice how in the Bible, when ever God needed to punish someone, or make an example, or whenever God needed a killing, he sent an angel? Did you ever wonder what a creature like that must be like? A whole existence spent praising your God, but always with one wing dipped in blood. Would you ever really want to see an angel?"
I can certainly see many a Solar, fueled by a complete focus on law and good wiping out someone who they decided wasn't worthy.
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Way back in the day I played a solar in the Throne of Bloodstone module (it allowed PCs of up to level 100, after the DM threw down some nerfs I opted to play a solar instead of a PC).
The whole point of the module was to visit Orcus in his abyssal lair, take his wand from him, and destroy it once and for all. Well, our group failed miserably. My solar was the sole survivor. Once I got back on the prime material plane, I used gate...successfully...to bring in the following one at a time in an attempt to get them to help me take down their nemesis Orcus, all to no avail:
Demogorgon - not interested (um, Orcus is his sworn enemy)
Fraz-Urb'luu - too busy (prince of deception, his whole shtick is tricking other demon princes into accepting his gates, boggled my mind when he actually showed up)
Graz'zt - yawn
and so on and so forth.
Nobody would help me. Campaign ended. Abject failure. But the gates worked like a champ!
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Gate worked fine when the mythic freaking oracle called a Colossal floating tentacle blob on us the other day. Didn't have to pay that anything at all--all it wanted to do was, well, that thing that Colossal floating tentacle blobs do....
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Way back in the day I played a solar in the Throne of Bloodstone module (it allowed PCs of up to level 100, after the DM threw down some nerfs I opted to play a solar instead of a PC).
The whole point of the module was to visit Orcus in his abyssal lair, take his wand from him, and destroy it once and for all. Well, our group failed miserably. My solar was the sole survivor. Once I got back on the prime material plane, I used gate...successfully...to bring in the following one at a time in an attempt to get them to help me take down their nemesis Orcus, all to no avail:
Demogorgon - not interested (um, Orcus is his sworn enemy)
Fraz-Urb'luu - too busy (prince of deception, his whole shtick is tricking other demon princes into accepting his gates, boggled my mind when he actually showed up)
Graz'zt - yawn
and so on and so forth.Nobody would help me. Campaign ended. Abject failure. But the gates worked like a champ!
I think your GM just didn't like you very much.
When Graz'zt takes a pass at helping you destroy Orcus' wand, I'm pretty sure someone was tired of the whole campaign.
Also, the two threads have been fused, so that's nice!
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Is that why my dot disappeared?
Maybe!
I think your GM just didn't like you very much.
When Graz'zt takes a pass at helping you destroy Orcus' wand, I'm pretty sure someone was tired of the whole campaign.
Dosgamer, I wish to make it clear: I'm not saying that your GM actually didn't like you, personally (I have no idea what the relationship was like) - this post was meant to be more tongue-in-cheek than it may appear.
Instead, my point was that it seems like you had a number of creatures acting substantially out-of-character all in a weird effort to avoid a circumstance that they'd all really desire for a whole host of reasons.
That, to me, indicates that, for whatever reason(s), either the GM just didn't want to play the game anymore, wanted Orcus to win, or wanted you to do something specific you weren't doing, or something else similar.
Sorry if this came off as snooty or against you - not my intent!