looks pretty solid all though cleave is normally difficult to pull off the title is miss leading tho as it is asking for a two weapon build but your actually going after a two handed build also stick with generic fighter you get a lot more options that way
For a reach weapon two handed weapon build, is polearm master the best archetype to take?
Main early bonus seems to be able to use your 2 handed weapon and hit a guy thats 5ft from you and not have to worry about enemies using 'step up' and being unable to attack.
I believe one of the main reasons to get 'cleave' is not for cleave itself, but for pre req to get cleaving finish. As a reach two handed fighter (even more reach when enlarged) you will make good use out of having the cleave finish feat. (and improved cleave finish feat later)
Interested if people think there are other archetypes/vanilla which is better then the polearm build.
For a reach weapon build, is polearm master the best archetype to take? Main early bonus seems to be able to use your 2 handed weapon and hit a guy thats 5ft from you and not have to worry about enemies using 'step up' and being unable to attack.
Sounds like Lady J is saying Generic Fighter better than the polearm master
vanilla fighter gets like 2000% more options due to advanced armor training and advanced weapon training which 95% of fighter archetypes lose access too
Highly skilled and tenacious fighters can gain advanced armor training, learning techniques and applications of the armor training class feature that give them special benefits in exchange for reducing their ability to mitigate their armor’s armor check penalty and improve its maximum Dexterity bonus.
Advanced armor training options function only when the fighter is wearing appropriate armor or using a shield, unless otherwise noted. A fighter with an archetype that replaces armor training cannot select advanced armor training options.
Adaptable Training (Ex): The fighter can use his base attack bonus in place of his ranks in one skill of his choice from the following list: Acrobatics, Climb, Disguise, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge (engineering), Profession (soldier), Ride, or Swim. The fighter need not be wearing armor or using a shield to use this option. When using adaptable training, the fighter substitutes his total base attack bonus (including his base attack bonus gained through levels in other classes) for his ranks in this skill, but adds the skill’s usual ability score modifier and any other bonuses or penalties that would modify that skill. Once a skill has been selected, it cannot be changed and the fighter can immediately retrain all of his ranks in the selected skill at no additional cost in money or time. In addition, the fighter adds all skills chosen with this option to his list of class skills. A fighter can choose this option up to four times.
Armor Specialization (Ex): The fighter selects one specific type of armor with which he is proficient, such as chain shirts or scale mail. While wearing the selected type of armor, the fighter adds one-quarter of his fighter level to the armor’s armor bonus, up to a maximum bonus of +3 for light armor, +4 for medium armor, or +5 for heavy armor. This increase to the armor bonus doesn’t increase the benefit that the fighter gains from feats, class abilities, or other effects that are determined by his armor’s base armor bonus, including other advanced armor training options. A fighter can choose this option multiple times. Each time he chooses it, he applies its benefit to a different type of armor.
Armored Confidence (Ex): While wearing armor, the fighter gains a bonus on Intimidate checks based upon the type of armor he is wearing: +1 for light armor, +2 for medium armor, or +3 for heavy armor. This bonus increases by 1 at 7th level and every 4 fighter levels thereafter, to a maximum of +4 at 19th level. In addition, the fighter adds half his armored confidence bonus to the DC of Intimidate checks to demoralize him.
Armored Juggernaut (Ex): When wearing heavy armor, the fighter gains DR 1/—. At 7th level, the fighter gains DR 1/— when wearing medium armor, and DR 2/— when wearing heavy armor. At 11th level, the fighter gains DR 1/— when wearing light armor, DR 2/— when wearing medium armor, and DR 3/— when wearing heavy armor. If the fighter is 19th level and has the armor mastery class feature, these DR values increase by 5. The DR from this ability stacks with that provided by adamantine armor, but not with other forms of damage reduction. This damage reduction does not apply if the fighter is helpless, stunned, or unconscious. Armored Master: The fighter gains an armor mastery feat or a shield mastery feat (see pages 18–19) as a bonus feat. He must meet all of the feat’s prerequisites.
Armored Master: The fighter gains an armor mastery feat or a shield mastery feat as a bonus feat. He must meet all of the feat’s prerequisites.
Armored Sacrifice (Ex): When damage would cause the fighter or an adjacent ally to be knocked unconscious or killed, the fighter can instead direct the damage to a suit of armor that he is wearing or a shield he is using as an immediate action. The original target takes no damage, but the armor or shield is treated as if it had only half its normal hardness. The fighter can use this option once per day, plus one additional time each day at 11th level and every 8 fighter levels thereafter, to a maximum of three times per day at 19th level.
Armored Sprint (Ex): The fighter gains Run as a bonus feat. If the fighter is proficient with heavy armor, he treats heavy armor as if it were one category lighter for the purpose of determining how fast he can move while running in armor.
Critical Deflection (Ex): While wearing armor or using a shield, the fighter gains a +2 bonus to his AC against attack rolls made to confirm a critical hit. This bonus increases by 1 at 7th level and every 4 fighter levels thereafter, to a maximum of +6 at 19th level.
Master Armorer (Ex): The fighter can use his base attack bonus in place of his ranks in the Craft (armor) skill. The fighter need not be wearing armor or using a shield to use this option. The fighter substitutes his total base attack bonus (including his base attack bonus gained through levels in other classes) for his ranks in this skill, but adds the skill’s usual ability score modifier and any other bonuses or penalties that would modify that skill. Additionally the fighter is treated as having the Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Master Craftsman feats, but only for the purpose of making magic armor. The fighter does not need to meet these feats’ prerequisites.
Quick Donning (Ex): The fighter can don armor in a hurry without reducing its effectiveness, and remove it quickly when it becomes a hindrance. When the fighter dons or removes his armor or dons it hastily, the amount of time needed to do so is reduced, as noted on the table below. Other characters can still help the fighter don his armor as normal
Armor Type Don Don Hastily Remove
Light armor 5 rounds 1 round 5 rounds
Medium armor 1 minute 5 rounds 1 minute
Heavy armor 2 minutes 1 minute 1d4 minutes
Additionally, when wearing hastily donned armor, the fighter can attempt a Strength or Dexterity check as a full-round action to remove the penalties associated with wearing hastily donned armor (DC = 10 + his armor’s unmodified armor bonus). If he succeeds at the check, he is treated as having properly donned his armor rather than having hastily donned it. The fighter can also remove his armor in the same amount of time that it takes him to don his armor hastily. He can even remove sections of armor to escape grapples and similar grasping hindrances. Whenever the fighter attempts a combat maneuver check, an Escape Artist check, or a Strength check to escape from an effect that reduces or restricts his ability to move or act, he can reduce the armor bonus of any armor that he is wearing by up to half his armor’s base armor bonus. If he does so, he gains a bonus on his check equal to the amount by which he reduced his armor’s armor bonus. Multiple uses of this ability cannot reduce the armor’s armor bonus below half its base armor bonus, and the reduction to the armor’s armor bonus lasts until the fighter recovers and dons the removed pieces of armor.
Steel Headbutt (Ex): While wearing medium or heavy armor, a fighter can deliver a headbutt with his helm as part of a full attack action. This headbutt is in addition to his normal attacks, and is made using the fighter’s base attack bonus – 5. A helmet headbutt deals 1d3 points of damage if the fighter is wearing medium armor, or 1d4 points of damage if he is wearing heavy armor (1d2 and 1d3, respectively, for Small creatures), plus an amount of damage equal to 1/2 the fighter’s Strength modifier. Treat this attack as a weapon attack made using the same special material (if any) as the armor. The armor’s enhancement bonus does not modify the headbutt attack, but the helm can be enchanted as a separate weapon.
Unmoving (Ex): Select one combat maneuver (except sunder). Whether using his armor as leverage against a grappling foe or using its weight to help him stop a bull rush, a fighter can use his armor to protect him from the chosen combat maneuver. While wearing armor or wielding a shield, the fighter gains a bonus to his CMD against the chosen combat maneuver. The bonus is +1 if he’s wearing light armor, +2 if he’s wearing medium armor, and +3 if he’s wearing heavy armor. This bonus increases by 1 at 7th level and every 4 fighter levels thereafter, to a maximum at 19th level of +5 for light armor, +6 for medium armor, and +7 for heavy armor. Mithral armor provides a bonus 1 lower than normal for armor of its type
advanced weapon training:
Advanced Weapon Training
Source PPC:WMH
Highly skilled and experienced fighters can gain advanced weapon training, learning techniques and applications of the weapon training class feature that give them special benefits in exchange for specializing in a smaller number of fighter weapon groups.
Beginning at 9th level, instead of selecting an additional fighter weapon group, a fighter can choose an advanced weapon training option for one fighter weapon group that he previously selected with the weapon training class feature.
The fighter’s weapon training bonus still increases for weapons from all fighter weapon groups he previously selected with weapon training. A fighter also adds this bonus to any combat maneuver checks made with weapons from this group. This bonus also applies to the fighter’s Combat Maneuver Defense when defending against disarm and sunder attempts made against weapons from this group.
Some advance weapon training options can be selected only if the fighter meets the option’s prerequisites.
Advanced weapon training options function only when the fighter is wielding a weapon from the associated group, unless otherwise noted, and use his weapon training bonus for the associated weapon group. Any bonuses on attack rolls and damage rolls granted by advanced weapon training apply only on attack rolls and damage rolls from weapons in the associated group. A fighter with an archetype that replaces weapon training cannot select advanced weapon training options.
Abundant Tactics (Ex) The fighter adds his weapon training bonus to the number of times per day he can use a combat feat he has that allows a limited number of daily uses, such as the Stunning Fist feat.
Armed Bravery (Ex) The fighter applies his bonus from bravery to Will saving throws. In addition, the DC of Intimidate checks to demoralize him increases by an amount equal to twice his bonus from bravery. The fighter must have the bravery class feature in order to select this option.
Combat Competence (Ex) For any weapon in the associated weapon group with which the fighter is not proficient, the penalty on attack rolls taken as a result of not being proficient is reduced by an amount equal to the fighter’s weapon training bonus with that weapon group. Once the penalty is reduced to 0, the fighter becomes proficient with such weapons.
Combat Maneuver Defense (Ex) When the fighter is wielding weapons from the associated weapon group, his weapon training bonus applies to his CMD against all combat maneuvers attempted against him, instead of just against disarm and sunder combat maneuvers.
Dazzling Intimidation (Ex) The fighter applies his weapon training bonus to Intimidate checks and can attempt an Intimidate check to demoralize an opponent as a move action instead of a standard action. If he has the Dazzling Display feat, he can use it as a standard action instead of a full-round action.
Defensive Weapon Training (Ex) The fighter gains a +1 shield bonus to his Armor Class. The fighter adds half his weapon’s enhancement bonus (if any) to this shield bonus. When his weapon training bonus for weapons from the associated fighter weapon group reaches +4, this shield bonus increases to +2. This shield bonus is lost if the fighter is immobilized or helpless.
Effortless Dual-Wielding (Ex) The fighter treats all one-handed weapons that belong to the associated weapon group as though they were light weapons when determining his penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons. Source PPC:BotB
Fighter’s Finesse (Ex) The fighter gains the benefits of the Weapon Finesse feat with all melee weapons that belong to the associated fighter weapon group (even if they cannot normally be used with Weapon Finesse). The fighter must have the Weapon Finesse feat before choosing this option.
Fighter’s Reflexes (Ex) The fighter applies his weapon training bonus to Reflex saving throws. He loses this bonus when he is flat-footed or denied his Dexterity bonus to AC.
Fighter’s Tactics (Ex) All of the fighter’s allies are treated as if they had the same teamwork feats as the fighter for the purpose of determining whether the fighter receives a bonus from his teamwork feats. His allies do not receive any bonuses from these feats unless they actually have the feats themselves. The allies’ positioning and actions must still meet the prerequisites listed in the teamwork feat for the fighter to receive the listed bonus.
Focused Weapon (Ex) The fighter selects one weapon for which he has Weapon Focus and that belongs to the associated fighter weapon group. The fighter can deal damage with this weapon based on the damage of the warpriest’s sacred weapon class feature, treating his fighter level as his warpriest level. The fighter must have Weapon Focus with the selected weapon in order to choose this option.
Inspiring Confidence (Ex) A number of times per day equal to his highest weapon training bonus as a swift action, the fighter can allow one ally within 30 feet to attempt a new saving throw against an ongoing fear effect that causes the ally to cower or to become frightened, panicked, or shaken. If the ally succeeds at the save, the effect ends. A fighter can use this option even when not wielding a weapon from the associated weapon group.
Item Mastery: The fighter gains an item mastery feat as a bonus feat, which functions with any magic weapon he wields, even if the magic weapon does not meet the feat’s normal requirements. He must meet all of the feat’s prerequisites. Source: PPC:MTT
Trained Grace (Ex) When the fighter uses Weapon Finesse to make a melee attack with a weapon, using his Dexterity modifier on attack rolls and his Strength modifier on damage rolls, he doubles his weapon training bonus on damage rolls. The fighter must have Weapon Finesse in order to choose this option.
Trained Initiative (Ex) As long as he is wielding a weapon from the associated weapon group or is able to draw such a weapon (even if he is not currently wielding it), the fighter applies his weapon training bonus to initiative checks. In addition, if he has the Quick Draw feat and has a weapon from the appropriate weapon group that isn’t hidden, he can draw that weapon as a free action as part of making an initiative check.
Trained Throw (Ex) When the fighter makes a ranged attack with a thrown weapon and applies his Dexterity modifier on attack rolls and his Strength modifier on damage rolls, he doubles his weapon training bonus on damage rolls. Unless he has the Throw Anything feat, the fighter can choose only the thrown fighter weapon group with this option. If he has Throw Anything, the fighter can choose any fighter weapon group with this option and apply this option’s benefits to any weapon from that group that he throws.
Versatile Training (Ex) The fighter can use his base attack bonus in place of his ranks in two skills of his choice that are associated with the fighter weapon group he has chosen with this option (see below). The fighter need not be wielding an associated weapon to use this option. When using versatile training, the fighter substitutes his total base attack bonus (including his base attack bonus gained through levels in other classes) for his ranks in these skills, but adds the skill’s usual ability score modifier and any other bonuses or penalties that would modify those skills. Once the skills have been selected, they cannot be changed and the fighter can immediately retrain all of his skill ranks in the selected skills at no additional cost in money or time. In addition, the fighter adds all skills chosen with this option to his list of class skills. A fighter can choose this option up to two times. The Bluff and Intimidate skills are associated with all fighter weapon groups. The various fighter weapon groups also have the following associated skills: axes (Climb, Survival), bows (Knowledge [engineering], Perception), close (Sense Motive, Stealth), crossbows (Perception, Stealth), double (Acrobatics, Sense Motive), firearms (Perception, Sleight of Hand), flails (Acrobatics, Sleight of Hand), hammers (Diplomacy, Ride), heavy blades (Diplomacy, Ride), light blades (Diplomacy, Sleight of Hand), monk (Acrobatics, Escape Artist), natural (Climb, Fly, Swim), polearms (Diplomacy, Sense Motive), siege engines (Disable Device, Profession [driver]), spears (Handle Animal, Ride), and thrown (Acrobatics, Perception).
Warrior Spirit (Su) The fighter can forge a spiritual bond with a weapon that belongs to the associated weapon group, allowing him to unlock the weapon’s potential. Each day, he designates one such weapon and gains a number of points of spiritual energy equal to 1 + his weapon training bonus. While wielding this weapon, he can spend 1 point of spiritual energy to grant the weapon an enhancement bonus equal to his weapon training bonus. Enhancement bonuses gained by this advanced weapon training option stack with those of the weapon, to a maximum of +5. The fighter can also imbue the weapon with any one weapon special ability with an equivalent enhancement bonus less than or equal to his maximum bonus by reducing the granted enhancement bonus by the amount of the equivalent enhancement bonus. The item must have an enhancement bonus of at least +1 (from the item itself or from warrior spirit) to gain a weapon special ability. In either case, these bonuses last for 1 minute. Source: PPC:MTT
Weapon Mastery The fighter gains a weapon mastery feat as a bonus feat, even when not wielding a weapon from the appropriate weapon group. He must meet all of the feat’s prerequisites.
Weapon Sacrifice (Ex) When damage would cause the fighter or an adjacent ally to be knocked unconscious or killed, as a swift or immediate action the fighter can instead direct the damage to a weapon from the associated weapon group that he is wielding. The original target takes no damage, but the weapon receives only half its normal hardness. The fighter can use this option a number of times per day equal to the fighter’s weapon training bonus with the associated weapon group. He cannot use this option with unarmed attacks.
Weapon Specialist (Ex) The fighter selects a number of combat feats that he knows equal to his weapon training bonus with the associated weapon group. The selected feats must be ones that require the fighter to choose a type of weapon (such as Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization), and the fighter must have chosen weapons that belong to the associated fighter weapon group. The fighter is treated as having the selected feats for all the weapons in the associated weapon group that are legal choices for those feats. The fighter is also considered to have those feats with these weapons for the purpose of meeting prerequisites.
there are more as they just released 2 more books for advanced armor/weapon training but they not on the srd yet
I would talk to your GM before taking Great Cleave. Or at least see what kinds of opponents and encounters s/he puts you up against
Great Cleave is only going to come on line if you are in many situations where you are fighting many opponents you can drop with just one hit. It's extremely situational.
There are probably better feats than that. Furious Focus and Pushing Assault, for example. One eliminates the penalty for your first Power Attack of the round, the other lets you drop the extra damage from Power Attack so you can push someone back 5 feet (10 feet on a crit, which you will be getting lots of from the fauchard).
I would talk to your GM before taking Great Cleave. Or at least see what kinds of opponents and encounters s/he puts you up against
Great Cleave is only going to come on line if you are in many situations where you are fighting many opponents you can drop with just one hit. It's extremely situational.
There are probably better feats than that. Furious Focus and Pushing Assault, for example. One eliminates the penalty for your first Power Attack of the round, the other lets you drop the extra damage from Power Attack so you can push someone back 5 feet (10 feet on a crit, which you will be getting lots of from the fauchard).
Thanks I'll be thinking my build,
considering my reach build
for Advanced Weapon Training I'm thinking of going Devastating Assault (Weapon Mastery)
Any advice on the Advanced Armor training options?
Another thing to keep in mind is that you can re-train bonus fighter feats, so you might be able to use Great Cleave to be the Cuisinart of Death at levels 4 through 7, but when minions start getting too tough to kill with one hit, you can swap out Great Cleave for something else, like Improved Critical or Greater Weapon Focus or something else fun at level 8.
I would talk to your GM before taking Great Cleave. Or at least see what kinds of opponents and encounters s/he puts you up against
Great Cleave is only going to come on line if you are in many situations where you are fighting many opponents you can drop with just one hit. It's extremely situational.
There are probably better feats than that. Furious Focus and Pushing Assault, for example. One eliminates the penalty for your first Power Attack of the round, the other lets you drop the extra damage from Power Attack so you can push someone back 5 feet (10 feet on a crit, which you will be getting lots of from the fauchard).
Thanks I'll be thinking my build,
considering my reach build
for Advanced Weapon Training I'm thinking of going Devastating Assault (Weapon Mastery)
Any advice on the Advanced Armor training options?
thats such a waste you can take that as an actual feat use it on something like armed bravery(your bravery bonus to all will saves instead of just fear)
I would talk to your GM before taking Great Cleave. Or at least see what kinds of opponents and encounters s/he puts you up against
Great Cleave is only going to come on line if you are in many situations where you are fighting many opponents you can drop with just one hit. It's extremely situational.
There are probably better feats than that. Furious Focus and Pushing Assault, for example. One eliminates the penalty for your first Power Attack of the round, the other lets you drop the extra damage from Power Attack so you can push someone back 5 feet (10 feet on a crit, which you will be getting lots of from the fauchard).
Thanks I'll be thinking my build,
considering my reach build
for Advanced Weapon Training I'm thinking of going Devastating Assault (Weapon Mastery)
Any advice on the Advanced Armor training options?
thats such a waste you can take that as an actual feat use it on something like armed bravery(your bravery bonus to all will saves instead of just fear)
OK so right now I switched up feats based on y'alls advice and am currently looking at:
I'm not a huge fan of Weapon Focus/Weapon Specialization. I don't really think 4 feats are worth +2 to hit and +4 to damage. Also Penetrating Strike really shouldn't be too much of an issue at that level, considering the weapon you need weapon focus with is likely going to be enchanted by that time anyways. (+1 bypasses magic, +3 ignores cold iron/silver, +4 ignores adamantine, and +5 ignores Alignment based)
A fun line of feats that you can get early is Step Up, Following Step, and Step Up and Strike. You'll want to combo Combat Reflexes with the last feat. This makes you highly mobile off your turn. You can get every feat except for Step Up and Strike at level 1 if you wanted to.
I'm not a huge fan of Weapon Focus/Weapon Specialization. I don't really think 4 feats are worth +2 to hit and +4 to damage. Also Penetrating Strike really shouldn't be too much of an issue at that level, considering the weapon you need weapon focus with is likely going to be enchanted by that time anyways. (+1 bypasses magic, +3 ignores cold iron/silver, +4 ignores adamantine, and +5 ignores Alignment based)
A fun line of feats that you can get early is Step Up, Following Step, and Step Up and Strike. You'll want to combo Combat Reflexes with the last feat. This makes you highly mobile off your turn. You can get every feat except for Step Up and Strike at level 1 if you wanted to.
Lunge and Pushing Assault is a fun combination. It can make it so critters need to move more than 10 feet to reach you, so they cannot full attack.
And when you cannot full attack, you might want to consider the Vital Strike feat tree. It's not an every round option, but it's a nice trick to pull off when you have to charge into battle or move more than 5 feet to attack. With a reach weapon and Lunge, that might not be too often, but it really depends on how tactical your GM plays his mooks. Kind of a "wait and see" feat choice.
Why Fauchard? The Lucerne Hammer is a Martial Weapon so you don't spend a Feat learning it. It does 1d12 compared with the Fauchard's 1d10. It gives you a choice between Piercing and Blunt Damage compared with the Fauchard's Slashing. Both are Reach Weapons. The Lucerne Hammer is also a Brace Weapon. The Fauchard is a Trip Weapon where the 'Hammer isn't, but you aren't developing a Tripping character.
If you were, I'd recommend the Horsechopper, which is also Reach and Trip and also does 1d10, but is a Martial instead of Exotic Weapon.
I know you are talking about a 2 handed Fighter, but I think you should take a look at the Phalanx Soldier, which would let you use Polearm and Shield.
The Spear Dancing Style feats provide an interesting direction to take a polearm user. You can use them in various ways:
1. Strength-based Fighter with the ability to switch to close-range double-weapon style combat. You can wield the polearm as a normal reach weapon until you turn activate the style, at which point you use Two-Weapon Fighting feats with it like it was a staff. Turning off the style makes it a reach weapon again.
2. Dexterity-based Fighter who wields a polearm with Weapon Finesse and Spear Dancing Spiral, using the Trained Grace Advanced Weapon Training feature and decent strength for damage. Spear Dancing Reach allows some reach use.
3. Fighter who takes one level of Unchained Monk, and uses Spear Dancing Spiral to wield a polearm with Flurry of Blows. You can do this either with strength or dexterity as above, but you never use Two-Weapon Fighting - you use flurry with two-handed attacks.
For a dexterity-based polearm user, I'd use Weapon Master Fighter. Otherwise, Weapon Master or normal Fighter.
I wouldn't dump both charisma and intelligence to 7. You don't have to have the absolute peak of possible of strength. Lowering it just a little bit will make nearly no noticeable difference in your combat ability yet will increase one of the other abilities to the point of being useful.
You might find yourself really wanting at least a few ranks in swim, climb, acrobatics, survival, sense motive, or perception.
Even if you are not the primary, assisting on a skill check is helpful.
Maybe the group wants to all learn Aklo so few can understand them pass messages.
It is a personal style thing. But I find I get bored when I have nothing to contribute during a non-combat encounter.
Why Fauchard? The Lucerne Hammer is a Martial Weapon so you don't spend a Feat learning it. It does 1d12 compared with the Fauchard's 1d10. It gives you a choice between Piercing and Blunt Damage compared with the Fauchard's Slashing. Both are Reach Weapons. The Lucerne Hammer is also a Brace Weapon. The Fauchard is a Trip Weapon where the 'Hammer isn't, but you aren't developing a Tripping character.
If you were, I'd recommend the Horsechopper, which is also Reach and Trip and also does 1d10, but is a Martial instead of Exotic Weapon.
I know you are talking about a 2 handed Fighter, but I think you should take a look at the Phalanx Soldier, which would let you use Polearm and Shield.
Fauchard has a 18-20 threat range, which is the best you can get with a reach weapon. Lucerne hammer only crits on a 20, and only does x2 damage to boot.
I would talk to your GM before taking Great Cleave. Or at least see what kinds of opponents and encounters s/he puts you up against
Great Cleave is only going to come on line if you are in many situations where you are fighting many opponents you can drop with just one hit. It's extremely situational.
There are probably better feats than that. Furious Focus and Pushing Assault, for example. One eliminates the penalty for your first Power Attack of the round, the other lets you drop the extra damage from Power Attack so you can push someone back 5 feet (10 feet on a crit, which you will be getting lots of from the fauchard).
Thanks I'll be thinking my build,
considering my reach build
for Advanced Weapon Training I'm thinking of going Devastating Assault (Weapon Mastery)
Any advice on the Advanced Armor training options?
thats such a waste you can take that as an actual feat use it on something like armed bravery(your bravery bonus to all will saves instead of just fear)
OK so right now I switched up feats based on y'alls advice and am currently looking at:
I bring +1 vote to the Two-handed Fighter, as you don't sacrifice Weapon Training, which is very useful for certain options that are invaluable in their application. On top of that, adding Double Strength (mostly) and Power Attack is very strong due to their inherently good scaling.
Don't forget that Furious Focus, like Cleave, is really only useful in the beginning levels (pre-6), since you can't really ever full attack outside of special gimmicks (Rapid Shot, TWF, etc). I'd consider swapping Improved Initiative and Furious Focus around to get more milage out of the latter. Keep in mind that you can retrain your bonus feats, so retraining Furious Focus can effectively give you more effectiveness in overall feat selection, especially if you're taking an immediately useful feat that falls off later down the road. In other words, retrain Furious Focus post-6.
Pushing Assault is a trap feat and kind of sucks anyway, even for a reach weapon user. I'd instead suggest nabbing feats like Advanced Weapon Training. This gives you access to new abilities and features that are extremely useful, such as being able to add enhancements to your weapon when it comes boss time via Warrior Spirit.
If you're going the Critical Focus route, you'll want more options besides Staggering Critical (which is redundant if you're taking Dazing Assault). Sickening and Tiring Critical would be more valuable, since it reduces their overall capabilities (Sickening makes it harder for them to save against your critical abilities, Tiring reduces their AC to make it easier to hit them, etc)., and would effectively stack with Dazing Assault. You'll want to take Critical Mastery as well, since it applies two of your Critical feats instead of one.
Devastating Assault really works well with Vital Strike. You don't have any of those feats, so it's kind of pointless, even for crit-fishing. Since I can apply those conditions with any of my attacks via the Critical feats and Dazing Assault, it's an equally redundant feat. And, I won't lose out on nearly as much damage at that level, since you can reliably hit twice at the time you get that feat. Also, that feat only works once per target per day. Of course, you can always retrain it to another Critical feat by the time you get access to them, or some other feats you're missing (Greater Weapon Specialization), but it's otherwise not worth the time to nab said feat.
Also, you'll want some more defensive feats. Consider feats like Shield Brace (you can use a shield with your Fauchard, since a Fauchard is like a Glaive, and the Glaive is a polearm weapon; added AC and special abilities will make you much more durable), Iron Will (An enemy dominates you to attack your party. You're probably going to destroy them with this set-up unless they are all archers.), and so on to throw in the mix, or in place of feats you plan to retrain.
I would talk to your GM before taking Great Cleave. Or at least see what kinds of opponents and encounters s/he puts you up against
Great Cleave is only going to come on line if you are in many situations where you are fighting many opponents you can drop with just one hit. It's extremely situational.
There are probably better feats than that. Furious Focus and Pushing Assault, for example. One eliminates the penalty for your first Power Attack of the round, the other lets you drop the extra damage from Power Attack so you can push someone back 5 feet (10 feet on a crit, which you will be getting lots of from the fauchard).
Thanks I'll be thinking my build,
considering my reach build
for Advanced Weapon Training I'm thinking of going Devastating Assault (Weapon Mastery)
Any advice on the Advanced Armor training options?
thats such a waste you can take that as an actual feat use it on something like armed bravery(your bravery bonus to all will saves instead of just fear)
OK so right now I switched up feats based on y'alls advice and am currently looking at:
I bring +1 vote to the Two-handed Fighter, as you don't sacrifice Weapon Training, which is very useful for certain options that are invaluable in their application. On top of that, adding Double Strength (mostly) and Power Attack is very strong due to their inherently good scaling.
Don't forget that Furious...
it sacks bravery tho which means no armed bravery aka no good will saves
Boy oh boy is 18 strength not worth it. Just be a core Fighter. Stats looking like this.
16(+2), 14, 12, 10, 10, 13
Feats:
Lvl1: Power Attack, Combat Reflexes, Toughness
Lvl2:Improved Bravery
Lvl3:Master Armorer
Lvl4: Unhindering Shield
Lvl5: Versatile Training (Your Choice)
Lvl6: Cut From the Air
Lvl7: Inspiring Bravery (Trade Armor Training for Armored Juggernaut)
Lvl8: Courage in a Bottle
Lvl9: Smash from the Air (Trade weapon training for Warrior Spirit)
Lvl10: Inspiring Confidence
Lvl11: From here you can focus on offense with whatever you like (Trade Armor Training for Armor Specialization)
Make your own adamantium gear that stacks with your DR and craft gear for yourself and your squad in downtime, have a pretty damn good aura, great AC, and smack away boulders and Disintegrate from yourself and nearby allies. Grab Item Mastery (Flight) at some point as well. Either trade a later weapon Training or qualify and take the feat normally.
Boy oh boy is 18 strength not worth it. Just be a core Fighter. Stats looking like this.
16(+2), 14, 12, 10, 10, 13
Feats:
Lvl1: Power Attack, Combat Reflexes, Toughness
Lvl2:Improved Bravery
Lvl3:Master Armorer
Lvl4: Unhindering Shield
Lvl5: Versatile Training (Your Choice)
Lvl6: Cut From the Air
Lvl7: Inspiring Bravery (Trade Armor Training for Armored Juggernaut)
Lvl8: Courage in a Bottle
Lvl9: Smash from the Air (Trade weapon training for Warrior Spirit)
Lvl10: Inspiring Confidence
Lvl11: From here you can focus on offense with whatever you like (Trade Armor Training for Armor Specialization)
Make your own adamantium gear that stacks with your DR and craft gear for yourself and your squad in downtime, have a pretty damn good aura, great AC, and smack away boulders and Disintegrate from yourself and nearby allies. Grab Item Mastery (Flight) at some point as well. Either trade a later weapon Training or qualify and take the feat normally.
improved bravery is a waste when you can get armed bravery
As an aside, if you are going to go fauchard, and use EWP as your human feat, you can trade in the human bonus feat for 'martial tradition' human racial ability, and get 2 EWPs, should you want an exotic back up weapon.
improved bravery is a waste when you can get armed bravery
Eh. Improved Bravery is A)Always on (Good for surprise will saves), and B)Can end up giving a +7 against mind affecting affects to others. It also helps if you want to take something else at level 5. In this case, 4 more skill points to play with. Tho a middle ground can be met on a human if you don't care for the pseudo aura.
Another Fighter:
16(+2), 14, 14, 13, 10, 7
Feats:
Lvl1: Power Attack, Fast Learner, Toughness Weapon
Lvl2:Combat Reflexes
Lvl3:Master Armorer
Lvl4: Unhindering Shield
Lvl5: Armed Bravery
Lvl6: Cut From the Air
Lvl7: Iron Will (Trade Armor Training for Armored Juggernaut)
Lvl8: Courage in a Bottle
Lvl9: Smash from the Air (Trade weapon training for Warrior Spirit)
Lvl10: Advanced Weapon Training: Item Mastery:Flight
Lvl11: Improved Critical (Trade Armor Training for Armor Specialization)
improved bravery is a waste when you can get armed bravery
Eh. Improved Bravery is A)Always on (Good for surprise will saves), and B)Can end up giving a +7 against mind affecting affects to others. It also helps if you want to take something else at level 5. In this case, 4 more skill points to play with.
i would still say take dodge then retrain to armed bravery at level 5
@ Lady-J: Armed Bravery only works when wielding your chosen weapon. While it's a fair assumption to expect it to be on most of the time, that doesn't mean the GM won't be a dick and find some way to take away his weaponry, either through being stolen while asleep, or disarm attempts in combat.
And at the levels that he'll be acquiring Armed Bravery, an Iron Will feat will be equally effective. Leaving him with other, better options at his disposal.
@ The King In Yellow: Or, he could go Half-Elf and take the Ancestral Arms option to get proficiency, meaning his net amount of feats wouldn't really change, and he'd gain a bunch of other defensive goodies.
Boy oh boy is 18 strength not worth it. Just be a core Fighter. Stats looking like this.
16(+2), 14, 12, 10, 10, 13
Feats:
Lvl1: Power Attack, Combat Reflexes, Toughness
Lvl2:Improved Bravery
Lvl3:Master Armorer
Lvl4: Unhindering Shield
Lvl5: Versatile Training (Your Choice)
Lvl6: Cut From the Air
Lvl7: Inspiring Bravery (Trade Armor Training for Armored Juggernaut)
Lvl8: Courage in a Bottle
Lvl9: Smash from the Air (Trade weapon training for Warrior Spirit)
Lvl10: Inspiring Confidence
Lvl11: From here you can focus on offense with whatever you like (Trade Armor Training for Armor Specialization)
Make your own adamantium gear that stacks with your DR and craft gear for yourself and your squad in downtime, have a pretty damn good aura, great AC, and smack away boulders and Disintegrate from yourself and nearby allies. Grab Item Mastery (Flight) at some point as well. Either trade a later weapon Training or qualify and take the feat normally.
Just a note: You can't count on being able to make your own gear or having access to adamantine, you should talk to your GM about whether there will be a lot of downtime in the campaign.
Boy oh boy is 18 strength not worth it. Just be a core Fighter. Stats looking like this.
16(+2), 14, 12, 10, 10, 13
Feats:
Lvl1: Power Attack, Combat Reflexes, Toughness
Lvl2:Improved Bravery
Lvl3:Master Armorer
Lvl4: Unhindering Shield
Lvl5: Versatile Training (Your Choice)
Lvl6: Cut From the Air
Lvl7: Inspiring Bravery (Trade Armor Training for Armored Juggernaut)
Lvl8: Courage in a Bottle
Lvl9: Smash from the Air (Trade weapon training for Warrior Spirit)
Lvl10: Inspiring Confidence
Lvl11: From here you can focus on offense with whatever you like (Trade Armor Training for Armor Specialization)
Make your own adamantium gear that stacks with your DR and craft gear for yourself and your squad in downtime, have a pretty damn good aura, great AC, and smack away boulders and Disintegrate from yourself and nearby allies. Grab Item Mastery (Flight) at some point as well. Either trade a later weapon Training or qualify and take the feat normally.
Just a note: You can't count on being able to make your own gear or having access to adamantine, you should talk to your GM about whether there will be a lot of downtime in the campaign.
you can craft b4 the game starts if your skill is good enough
* Either Combat Reflexes (or barbarian's Quick Reflexes) should be somewhere in the build, and early. Achieving AoOs should be a major priority, because they represents entirely free extra attacks, and each one of those successfully achieved is going to dish out massively more damage than just about any other feat you could possibly take. The goal here is to make the enemy kill themselves on their turns without you having to do a thing.
* Accelerated Drinker trait lets you chug potions of Enlarge Person as a move action. (Note that going up in size decreases DEX -2, possibly costing you an AoO.) Even better if you can enlarge yourself as a swift action somehow.
* Fauchards are a seductive trap. Players generally want to get that sexy 18-20/x2 weapon right away, so it eats a precious feat slot to acquire early in the build when they only have a few, and the bestowed benefit (additional 5% to threaten) is pretty weak at levels when confirmation isn't neigh guaranteed, and the trip ability superceded by Improved Trip later on. Worst, fauchard forfeits the brace property, which, with shrew appraisal of the battlefield, generate more instance of double-damage than a +5% to threaten, and it can save your ass breaking a monster's pounce in the higher-level game. So leave that fauchard on the pawn shop wall next to the overpriced Gibsons and instead pick up a trusty bardiche, which is underrated and underpriced accordingly.
* If you're a STR guy, don't waste your time on Improved Initiative, because you are not going to go before any opponent designed around going first. Besides, you may not necessarily want to go before your caster allies can buff the party, and your combat strategy may prefer the enemy coming to you anyway (AoO-generation, etc).
* That said, don't be flat-footed in surprise rounds (because that is a rotten time to get pounced). Especially be extremely wary of barbarian archetypes which forfeit Uncanny Dodge -- because that is the first thing archetype writers love to cash out because they are evil little s#!ts trying to kill you.
* Vital Strike can't be used with Spring Attack, but it can be used with Bestial Leaper (which is basically Ride-by Attack for barbarians, and therefore even better than Spring Attack because you're not left adjacent to the opponent and don't have to move in a straight line due to charging requirement).
* Dump stats make you better. Pick one is a gimme. Pick two if you dare. Pick three if you don't care at all.
~ ~ ~
Pick the first one if your GM likes asking for skill-checks other than Perception; pick the second if he just runs you through dungeons.
And another benefit of Combat Reflexes is that it lets you make an AoO while flat-footed, so you don't even need to go first to hit first! So you don't need Improved Initiative. You get to be patient and get buffed/not fireballed during the initial salvo.
You can also just use Trained Grace and Fighter's Finesse or Spear Dancing Spiral to go DEX with any polearm.
unchained rogue is the only way to get 1.5xdex to dmg with 2h weapons tho
Sure, but Trained Grace doubles Weapon Training while still getting 1.5xSTR, and you don't lose BAB and Fighter level progression and get forced into a specific weapon. Both approaches work fine, but URogue isn't really better for direct combat purposes.
You can also just use Trained Grace and Fighter's Finesse or Spear Dancing Spiral to go DEX with any polearm.
unchained rogue is the only way to get 1.5xdex to dmg with 2h weapons tho
Sure, but Trained Grace doubles Weapon Training while still getting 1.5xSTR, and you don't lose BAB and Fighter level progression and get forced into a specific weapon. Both approaches work fine, but URogue isn't really better for direct combat purposes.
hes using 20 point buy there's not enough points to specialize in 2 stats, u rogue is actually pretty good in combat especially if you go the extra level and pick up debilitating strike
You can also just use Trained Grace and Fighter's Finesse or Spear Dancing Spiral to go DEX with any polearm.
unchained rogue is the only way to get 1.5xdex to dmg with 2h weapons tho
Sure, but Trained Grace doubles Weapon Training while still getting 1.5xSTR, and you don't lose BAB and Fighter level progression and get forced into a specific weapon. Both approaches work fine, but URogue isn't really better for direct combat purposes.
hes using 20 point buy there's not enough points to specialize in 2 stats, u rogue is actually pretty good in combat especially if you go the extra level and pick up debilitating strike
You don't have to specialize in two stats to go the Trained Grace route. 14STR and Gloves of Dueling with Trained Grace is pretty comparable with going the multiclassing route; a little less damage and better attack rating. Building for higher STR on a 20pt. isn't tough either; you can get to 18STR on a DEX-based Fighter without all that much trouble really. The URogue thing can be pretty good, but it's more for focusing on actually using Sneak Attack rather than going straight-up Fighter.
You can also just use Trained Grace and Fighter's Finesse or Spear Dancing Spiral to go DEX with any polearm.
unchained rogue is the only way to get 1.5xdex to dmg with 2h weapons tho
Sure, but Trained Grace doubles Weapon Training while still getting 1.5xSTR, and you don't lose BAB and Fighter level progression and get forced into a specific weapon. Both approaches work fine, but URogue isn't really better for direct combat purposes.
hes using 20 point buy there's not enough points to specialize in 2 stats, u rogue is actually pretty good in combat especially if you go the extra level and pick up debilitating strike
You don't have to specialize in two stats to go the Trained Grace route. 14STR and Gloves of Dueling with Trained Grace is pretty comparable with going the multiclassing route; a little less damage and better attack rating. Building for higher STR on a 20pt. isn't tough either; you can get to 18STR on a DEX-based Fighter without all that much trouble really. The URogue thing can be pretty good, but it's more for focusing on actually using Sneak Attack rather than going straight-up Fighter.
i still say 4 levels on unchained rogue would be better and then add a few more multi classes as well as well as dropping the current race and going goblin
race:goblin
20 point buy
str:10
dex:22
con:14
int:8
wis:12
cha:5
unchained rogue 4, mutation warrior x, urban barbarian y
this will net them a dex of over 40 at higher level and will allow for over 16 AOOs per round if you can get people to provoke
And another benefit of Combat Reflexes is that it lets you make an AoO while flat-footed, so you don't even need to go first to hit first!
Note that the Quick Reflexes barbarian rage power does not have similar wording (so, again, y'all be wary of the archetypes that trade away Uncanny Dodge, because Paizo's writers secretly want you to DIE).
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
BadBird wrote:
You can also just use Trained Grace and Fighter's Finesse or Spear Dancing Spiral to go DEX with any polearm.
Either of these routes has problems:
* Spear Dancing Spiral only gains the benefit of Weapon Finesse while using Spear Dancing Style (prerequisite tax feat), whose wording specifies "...A weapon wielded in this way loses the brace and reach special weapon features...." Uh-huh. Wow. That is, like, totally worthless (why would we be using a pole-arm anyway then, instead of, I dunno, two light weapons with our DEX monkey?). -- Here's a plate of totally worthless for the low, low cost of only two feats. Hey! No jostling! Wait your turn. There's plenty for everyone.
* Fighter's Finesse doesn't make your chosen weapon group (polearms in this case) either normal-sized (so they can be used in grapples) or Light (so Piranha Strike may be applied, and they may be used while swallowed).
* Trained Grace is going to add maybe five points of damage tops per swat in a higher level competently-built fighter who doesn't throw all of his weapon-training into a single weapon (because he wants to apply that Gloves of Dueling bonus to bows or thrown and close weapons as well as his main weapon). That's not much compared to Piranha Strike's scale-up (which is already dishing out +4 at BAB4).
* Given these limitations, if you keep your STR up to qualify for Power Attack, then you're MAD and might as well be a STR fighter anyway and save on feats. Or be a DEX min/maxing TWF/flurrier with light weapons & Piranha Strike.
Fighter's Finesse or Spear Dancing Reach allow for preserving the reach option while using DEX. The ability to make two-handed Power Attacks for all single attacks or reach full attacks is much superior to making one-handed Piranha Strike attacks.
A Fighter can easily have a decent strength score while being dex-based; after all, a strength-based reach Fighter can hardly dump DEX, but that's not some disaster for them. It's easy to lose sight of the fact that min-maxing is ultimately a matter of +1's. MADness needs to be managed, but it's not the disaster that it's often seen as.
By the time a Fighter picks up Gloves of Dueling, Trained Grace is already a +4.
Fighter's Finesse or Spear Dancing Reach allow for preserving the reach option while using DEX. The ability to make two-handed Power Attacks for all single attacks or reach full attacks is much superior to making one-handed Piranha Strike attacks.
It's not superior to making two one-handed Piranha Strikes (which is what TWF DEX guys will be doing).
Quote:
A Fighter can easily have a decent strength score while being dex-based; after all, a strength-based reach Fighter can hardly dump DEX...
Barbarians certainly can. (And I know at least one PFS straight fighter in plate with a DEX of 7 who was the most durable person at the table most of the time. He fell down a lot, but I do not recall him ever being in danger of being killed.
This discussion was about a reach-weapon user potentially using DEX. A TWF light weapon user isn't going to be making reach attacks, but a Fighter using Spear Dancing Spiral with DEX can do so. Done right, SDS allows for both TWF with a 'double weapon' and reach attacks with a two-handed weapon. Also, not every attack made is part of a TWF full attack for any character, and particularly not for a character using a reach weapon to score AoO's. One of the primary advantages of wielding a double weapon (or an offhand glove/fist weapon) is that every standard attack and AoO can be two-handed.
I don't know where Barbarians suddenly came into this, but a reach-weapon using Barbarian can't afford to dump DEX any more than a reach-weapon using anything else if they want to run Combat Reflexes.
This discussion was about a reach-weapon user potentially using DEX.
That's not in the OP.
In any event, I pointed out some limitations.
Quote:
a reach-weapon using Barbarian can't afford to dump DEX any more than a reach-weapon using anything else if they want to run Combat Reflexes.
They can use the very similar Quick Reflexes barbarian rage power (which grants a simple +1 to your amount of AoOs regardless of DEX). Granted, he won't get to Greater Trip/Vicious Stomp more than once a round (if that's his thing), but some are willing to accept that in exchange for croaking DEX to 7 or 8 from 13 and freeing up five or seven build points to shift elsewhere.
Why Fauchard? The Lucerne Hammer is a Martial Weapon so you don't spend a Feat learning it. It does 1d12 compared with the Fauchard's 1d10. It gives you a choice between Piercing and Blunt Damage compared with the Fauchard's Slashing. Both are Reach Weapons. The Lucerne Hammer is also a Brace Weapon. The Fauchard is a Trip Weapon where the 'Hammer isn't, but you aren't developing a Tripping character.
If you were, I'd recommend the Horsechopper, which is also Reach and Trip and also does 1d10, but is a Martial instead of Exotic Weapon.
I know you are talking about a 2 handed Fighter, but I think you should take a look at the Phalanx Soldier, which would let you use Polearm and Shield.
Fauchard has a 18-20 threat range, which is the best you can get with a reach weapon. Lucerne hammer only crits on a 20, and only does x2 damage to boot.
Crexis wrote:
Yeah the crit range is the reason to go Fauchard.
He's planning on taking crit focus feats post level 8
In that case, I recommend the OP find a way to work in the Seize the Moment or Outflank feats with a level in Cavalier, 3 in Inquisitor, or by being an Eldritch Guardian or something. Glean some Attacks of Opportunity off all those Crits. Plus you can get those soon, start reaping high threat Range benefits right away.
