How to make Beguiling Gift useful between levels 4-7

[Atalius]

Does anyone know of a way besides Heighten Spell to make Beguiling Gift still usable in the mid game. The problem is the DC for a first level spell I figure will become obsolotele between levels 4-7. Certainly my witch with his evil eye and misfortune helps keep it relevant for longer, but are there other ways? I don't exactly want to get Spell Focus Enchantment either :(

[blahpers]

Sounds like you've already found the primary solutions.

[Ryze Kuja]

Figure out a way to Shaken or Sicken your target for an additional -2/-2 to Saves.

Edit: You get lots of spells that cause Shaken/Frighten and Sickened/Nauseated condition.

Go to the Witch Spell page on the SRD and hit Ctrl+F, then search the page for Sicken and all the Sicken spells become highlighted.

[Ryze Kuja]

Also, Beguiling Gift is a Will Save and Drowsy targets get a stacking debuff to Will Saves depending on how drowsy they really are. If you can figure out a way to make someone drowsy (but not asleep), you can probably make Beguiling Gift pretty effective well past level 7.

[blahpers]

Had to look it up--for those interested, "drowsy" is a third-party condition from Rogue Genius games. I have no idea what causes it.

[Ryze Kuja]

Here's one:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/l/lullaby/

Here's the awesome part though. You're a Witch, so ask your GM to allow you to either find or brew a splash weapon or a potion that causes Drowsiness. The worst case scenario is that the GM says no :P

[Atalius]

Ryze Kuja wrote:

Here's one:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/l/lullaby/

Here's the awesome part though. You're a Witch, so ask your GM to allow you to either find or brew a splash weapon or a potion that causes Drowsiness. The worst case scenario is that the GM says no :P

we have an alchemist in our group, could he brew stuff like this potentially?

[Atalius]

Ryze Kuja wrote:

Figure out a way to Shaken or Sicken your target for an additional -2/-2 to Saves.

Edit: You get lots of spells that cause Shaken/Frighten and Sickened/Nauseated condition.

Go to the Witch Spell page on the SRD and hit Ctrl+F, then search the page for Sicken and all the Sicken spells become highlighted.

Hmm good idea, yes we have an intimidator in our group, that is a nice -2 from Shaken.

[Tsukiyo]

Ultimately, with SoS spells, lower level slots are always going to become significantly less valuable as you level, unless you are menacing a commoner for some reason.

Start learning low level utility spells or buffs to utilise the lower slots, keeping the higher slots to force saves.

By the time you're level 7, you're unlikely to want to waste a standard action on Beguiling Gift when you have Phantasmal Killer, Wall of Blindness or Black Tentacles at your disposal.

[valhella]

If we have time and referring to a noncombat encounter where Sudden blindness, Spawn of Cthulu, or terrified villagers may be a little more of a distraction than was hoped for we have more options.

We are adventurers here and there are many Wiley ways to give things... Get a man a drink.. costs a few coppers, the Face Gets info, The Bard Carouses, Everyone gets Downtime then after Stage 2-3 of intoxication kill they will save... Pop the Gift

Let's not forget that, as Players, we have minds too and there are tons of ways of getting advantages statistically with Alchemy to droop a Roofie in hid Next Mead or whatnot. just because we HAVER spells doesn't mean we need to USE them. And if we know what we can do Non-magically We can add that in. Penalties stack regardless of Source.

Hit him with a Diplomacy to change his attitude, buy him a couple of friendly drinks, Bard Schmoozes (If Applicable), Charm Person when you get next round as you Roofie him, "Excuse Yourself" and in return when he's not observing, cast Beguiling Gift and offer.

Note in my mind I'm also taking care to cast from behind things and at a distance when possible so the target isn't "AS Likely" to notice spellcasting.

[Mysterious Stranger]

There are a lot of classes and creatures with low will saves. Humanoids, Magical Beasts, and Monstrous Humanoids all have low will saves. Brawlers, Cavaliers, Fighters, Rogues and Slayers all have bad will saves and no class ability to boost them or reason to have a high WIS. Not all NPCs are going to have a PC’s WBL. That means they will not have the save boosting items. Choosing the right target for the spell will go a long way to keeping it relevant. Don’t use it on try to give poison to the cleric, give the fighter using the great sword a dagger. Since the spell causes the target to drop what he is carrying it effectively disarms the fighter.

[Kurald Galain]

Atalius wrote:

The problem is the DC for a first level spell I figure will become obsolotele between levels 4-7.

The DC for a first-level spell is only 5% worse than that for a 2nd-level spell; so clearly this isn't obsolete at level 4 yet.

[TxSam88]

Kurald Galain wrote:

Atalius wrote:

The problem is the DC for a first level spell I figure will become obsolotele between levels 4-7.

The DC for a first-level spell is only 5% worse than that for a 2nd-level spell; so clearly this isn't obsolete at level 4 yet.

No, but a Wisdom (Will) based character has a save that is 2 or 3 points better, so a net loss of up to 20% times they will save.

[Kurald Galain]

TxSam88 wrote:

No, but a Wisdom (Will) based character has a save that is 2 or 3 points better, so a net loss of up to 20% times they will save.

That's why you use this spell on brute-like or sneaky-like enemies (that tend to have low will saves), but not on caster-like enemies (that tend to have high will saves). That is good tactics, not obsolescence.