Hi.
Craft Wondrous Item feat.
Intelligent items can be built to cast spells.
One such option would be Alter Self 3/day.
Obviously not PFS legal, but RAW legal?
Does this mean a Level 3+ caster can (with enough money & time) build their own entourage of intelligent magic items that take humanoid form thrice a day apiece?
Discuss.
It's not really a discussion, yes its technically possible. However, GMs generally do not allow the creation of intelligent magic items.
I don't see why that wouldn't work, money aside.
No need to even wait for level 3, if you're an unsworn shaman you can take the Fetish hex at level 1, which gives you craft wondrous item.
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Not only that, but they would invite you in song to be their guest...
you know that intelligent item hate each other and do not want to share their owner, they can even sense another one at 60 feet and does all is possible to make their owner go away from that place, if you make more than one then they might decide (and surely) to do nothing until you choose one and abandon the other
Found the citation for this.
I find it odd, though... this can't be circumvented even if the creator makes the items? Seems like fluff, designed to reduce the chance of someone collecting intelligent items (which really aren't game breaking anyway).
Aside, so long as all the magic items have a low ego (low enough to make the Ego-based Will save on a natural 2), and the personalities are designed so as to work well together, the chances of such manipulation are minimal, if not zero. For example, if the personalities of all the items is something very teamwork focused, like "I am a member of an elite force of magic items who, together with my equals, turn our creator into a CAPTAIN AWESOME!"
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The rules for creating intelligent items are not really rules for characters to make them, rather they are rules for GMs to design them. You will note that nothing at all in that section talks about construction requirements or similar things.
The assumption in the game is that intelligent items happen by accident, long lost rituals, Gods or anything else completely in the purview of the GM.
Intelligent items aren't really meant to be crafted - you'll notice they have no construction requirements and their pricing is painfully vague.
They're meant to be plot devices.
They would be effectively dead, as they would have no Con and (depending on form) either no Dex or no Str.
They would be effectively dead, as they would have no Con and (depending on form) either no Dex or no Str.construct have no CON score same for undead, it is not unusual for some type of creature to have no CON score, and the text say inteligent item are construct so no CON score because of that, and how can a construct be dead if they were never alive in the first place
Then they would be paralyzed, as they have either 0 Dex or 0 Str.
All of item creation and especially intelligent item creation is for the use of the GM. Players are not intended to look at the rules, craft things, or otherwise use those rules.item creation rule is not for GM only or else the item creation feat should not be usable for player, and the item creation rule is there to mainly help to upgrade existing item like when the player want to have his +1 weapon to be +2
You're confusing crafting existing items (like a Cloak of Resistance) with estimating gold piece values of entirely new magic items. The former is completely fine to be used as-is by players, the latter is not. It's a pricing guideline and the section specifically states that the GM can just say "No, you literally can't craft that". So, I disagree with James on that, it's absolutely intended to be used by players (there are even examples listed), but they aren't hard and fast rules.
The rules on intelligent items, however, lack any examples of player characters creating them. Furthermore, the section is titled "Designing an Intelligent Item", not "creating" or "crafting". So, I'm of the opinion that no, you can't intentionally create them like you'd create other magic items.
Not mean to be crafted?
The following are examples of specific intelligent items that can be crafted or found in treasure hoards.
I beg to differ.
It's not really a discussion, yes its technically possible. However, GMs generally do not allow the creation of intelligent magic items.
Oh? Why?
Intelligent items aren't really meant to be crafted - you'll notice they have no construction requirements and their pricing is painfully vague.
Neither of the things implies that intelligent items aren't meant to be crafted. For that matter, I'd argue that the pricing is unusually precise, especially compared to custom unintelligent magic items.
They do work well as plot devices, though, whether party-crafted or otherwise encountered.
for me intelligent items should be mostly GM use or for player that are very high lvl(15 and more) to make, because an intelligent items for lower than lvl 15 can break the game, unless it is use by the GM as a plot device
How so?
for me intelligent items should be mostly GM use or for player that are very high lvl(15 and more) to make, because an intelligent items for lower than lvl 15 can break the game, unless it is use by the GM as a plot deviceHow so?because those items are very strong and they break the game very easily, they can have all sort of power, its like giving a +3 holy weapon and a +3 moderate fortification armour to a lvl 3, its too powerful for someone that lvl, but intelligent item are far more powerful than that, they can easily have power that are equivalent to epic character, so a GM should only put them for very high lvl PC or for plot device to advance the story of the game.
but you can do what you want as a GM what i say is just a friendly warning about intelligent item since i had one and my party member also had each of them one and it make a lot of encounter more easy that it should be
An intelligent +3 holy weapon costs more than an unintelligent one. Same for +3 moderate fortification armor. Is there a loophole I'm missing?
Compare Intelligent Items to the Simulacrum spell.
The Simulacrum spell creates a completely loyal servant of anyone at half power. Dragon, spellcaster, outsider, whatever.
Price of a half-power Solar: 11000gp
Create Demiplane... Wish/Miracle... Planar Binding... these are all "hack" spells. They aren't any less game-breaking than intelligent items.
go see intelligent items, you will see its price based on its intelligent score (base 10 no price modifier), power it has and dedicated power, and an intelligent item can use any abilities you have put in it with creation feat, you have an intelligent ring it can use the power of the ring + it has its own power, an intelligent item can use true resurrect on its wielder once per month (one of its own dedicated power) there is no loophole its just that intelligent items are very powerful since they are sentient and have their own action (swift, immediate, standard, move, full round action), so you need to activate a magic item to have a good effect but it use a standard action put it in your intelligent items it will cast it for you by using its own standard actionAn intelligent +3 holy weapon costs more than an unintelligent one. Same for +3 moderate fortification armor. Is there a loophole I'm missing?for me intelligent items should be mostly GM use or for player that are very high lvl(15 and more) to make, because an intelligent items for lower than lvl 15 can break the game, unless it is use by the GM as a plot deviceHow so?because those items are very strong and they break the game very easily, they can have all sort of power, its like giving a +3 holy weapon and a +3 moderate fortification armour to a lvl 3, its too powerful for someone that lvl, but intelligent item are far more powerful than that, they can easily have power that are equivalent to epic character, so a GM should only put them for very high lvl PC or for plot device to advance the story of the game.
but you can do what you want as a GM what i say is just a friendly warning about intelligent item since i had one and my party member also had each of them one and it make a lot of encounter more easy that it should be
Let's take a look.
An intelligent item that can cast true resurrection once per month costs 200,000 gp. This is in addition to the price of the base item. If one of your PCs has 200,000 gp to burn, you have larger issues to deal with than intelligent items.
But that's not all. This power requires a special purpose, which combined with the power itself adds +4 to the item's Ego score. It also adds a +4 to its Ego score whenever the bearer goes against the item's special purpose. That's as much as an 18 Ego score without any other adjustments. Have fun making DC 18 Will saves at 3rd level every time your item decides you aren't helping it fight demons with sufficient zeal, at which point it can shut itself down or, if particularly piqued, effectively dominate you or attempt to find a new bearer.
Even if it doesn't shut itself down, true resurrection is a dedicated special power, meaning that the item is the only one who can decide whether to use it--and it will only use it if it feels that it's the most likely course for advancing its agenda. If you up and cark it, your intelligent +1 holy battle axe may decide it has a better chance at fighting evil its way in the hands of some famous paladin, living or dead, and act accordingly. Tough break, hero. Still think it's an advantage that such powers use the item's action rather than the wielders'?
But, surely, the item will agree with its creator's outlook, right? I mean, the creator sets the alignment and special purpose.... except this is a sentient being. It has its own hopes, its own dreams, and its own ability to grow and change in thought and purpose. It certainly isn't just another shard of your personality--it's more akin to a child than a piece of equipment. And children grow up to have their own ideas of how to achieve their goals. Meanwhile, you, the creator, have your own character development to undergo, and characters' priorities change over time--more frequently than intelligent items' priorities do, anyway.
Compare this to the alternative: You could make half a dozen single-use water balloons of true resurrection for less than that. You could go even cheaper by swapping some of them for raise dead and restoration items instead--how often do you expect to need the big guns anyway?
Sorry, but your example just isn't very convincing.
I've played in games that allowed player-designed intelligent magic items. They seemed pretty overpowered for the price, for reasons of action economy. Having something that can cast healing, buffs and condition removal spells without any action on your part is really useful.
i never say to give an a +3 holy intelligent weapon to a low level what i was saying and you seem to forget is that an intelligent items is for very high lvl pc, my exemple that i had use is a +3 holy weapon and +3 moderate fortification armour to a lvl3, not an intelligent one but a non-intelligent one to say how powerful it is in comparison.
and only when the intelligent item has a ego of 20 or higher that the personality conflict appear but only if they do not always agree with the items (seem you forgot a lot of important thing here), and if harmony reign and their alignment match its very unlikely there will be a personality conflict and a intelligent item might wish to have a lesser wielder to easily establish dominance and do what it want, so depending of what it want it may want to have a lvl 3 as a possessor to have easy control, maybe its an evil item that want to control that lvl 3 to spread chaos and destruction and what is easier to do it. taking control of a powerful hero of a weak hero?
Sorry, I must have misread your post. That seems a rather arbitrary comparision to make; not all intelligent items are as powerful as, e.g., a [i]+3 holy{/i] weapon. Can you give a specific example in which an intelligent item is significantly undercosted for its utility, especially given the baggage that comes with said item?
On the ego front, you are mistaken--the bearer of an intelligent item of any Ego can be subject to personality conflict if the bearer is not true to the item's alignment's goals or special purpose. An intelligent item of 20 or higher Ego exacerbates the situation by percieving itself as being superior to its bearer such that any disagreement results in conflict. But even lesser Egos can put up a fight.
As for the level 3 possessor--I agree wholeheartedly! A low-level character would do well to think twice before crafting an intelligent item that can overpower its creator. But some would be willing to risk it--or too foolish to notice the risk.
I've played in games that allowed player-designed intelligent magic items. They seemed pretty overpowered for the price, for reasons of action economy. Having something that can cast healing, buffs and condition removal spells without any action on your part is really useful.
Could you give a more specific example? That sounds like a pretty expensive item.
Could you give a more specific example? That sounds like a pretty expensive item.
Potentially. But an item could:
Heal you for 1d8+5 three times a day for 1200gp.Magic missile an enemy for 5d4+5 damage three times a day for 1200gp.
Cast Grease three times a day for 1200gp, helping you out of grapples or providing area control.
Cure you or an ally of Nausea or Sickened three times a day for 1200gp.
Cure you or an ally of Paralysis/Staggered once a day for 2400gp.
Those last two seem pretty good - even a Paladin can't cure himself of Nausea as a swift action (because he can't do swift actions while nauseated).
simulacrum only mimic the creature by half of anythig and you must adjust its power feat and anything relative to its new power, it say that
''Simulacrum creates an illusory duplicate of any creature. The duplicate creature is partially real and formed from ice or snow. It appears to be the same as the original, but it has only half of the real creature’s levels or HD (and the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD)''
so a solar with 11 HD cannot have all those powerful abilities since it will not be appropriate for its new HD which is lower, so not that strong too, that spell make you having a creature that loose a s&$$ ton of...
My point is that you have a loyal 9th level divine caster (Since it's -11HD, remove 11 caster levels to be conservative) who has full base attack bonus, flight, and some SLAs (a subset as appropriate). For the price of 11k gold.
If you have the 100 000 gold to craft an intelligent item of any significant power, you also can create 9 of these simulacrum Solars. They are all 100% loyal.How's that for action economy?
Intelligent items are less efficient per-gold than Simulacrum, and they aren't restricted to users of the Wiz/Sorc spell list. That's good, because it provides a "consolation prize" for the Druids, Clerics and Bards out there. Also it can be used by anyone (rather than just the already powerful caster)
Simulacrum is a spell for 13th level wizards, and is banned or house-ruled in all games I've seen. It's not a great starting point for game-balance comparisons.
Intelligent magic items can be a good "consolation prize" for pure-martial characters, the sort who are otherwise pretty poor at doing anything outside of damage-dealing, but I'd still recommend careful GM vetting.
Comparing something to Simulacrum is like saying:
"I know this is (one of) the most broken thing in the game, and since it's not as good as that it's fine."
Just because it's not the most broken option doesn't mean it should be allowed. You're much better off removing the really broken options to bring the game to a more reasonable state.
In previous editions, a character needed to possess a caster level of at least 15 to be able to craft an intelligent magical item. (That's even higher than you need to learn the mysteries of lichdom!)
That limitation no longer appears to exist in Pathfinder, however.
Intelligent magical items are no more, or less, limited than normal magical items. If you don't play in PFS, and your GM doesn't ban them, then it is totally legal for a player character to craft one. Despite what the naysayers above say, they don't need construction requirements; they use the construction requirements of the base item. The only thing extra they need is the additional costs, to account for the increased power level of the item's sentient powers.
Simulacrum is a spell for 13th level wizards, and is banned or house-ruled in all games I've seen. It's not a great starting point for game-balance comparisons.
Comparing something to Simulacrum is like saying:
"I know this is (one of) the most broken thing in the game, and since it's not as good as that it's fine."Just because it's not the most broken option doesn't mean it should be allowed. You're much better off removing the really broken options to bring the game to a more reasonable state.
I can see where this discussion is degenerating.
"Broken" is simply a measure of how well a GM and a group can manage things. The choice to ban things because they can be abused is a matter of how you run your own game. Giving in to reactionary urges and telling strangers on the internet that their play style doesn't suit your tastes isn't useful. The world is big enough for all kinds of play styles. One group's "broken" can be another group's standard practice, and neither table is guilty of wrongbadfun. For example, at my group's table almost nothing is off-limits, but when the PCs discuss using an exploit, the GM openly states that (eventually) our enemies will do the same, and so we should think carefully about how far we go.
That's the last I have to say about that, really. Let's move forward in a more collaborative vein.
In previous editions, a character needed to possess a caster level of at least 15 to be able to craft an intelligent magical item. (That's even higher than you need to learn the mysteries of lichdom!)
That limitation no longer appears to exist in Pathfinder, however.
Intelligent magical items are no more, or less, limited than normal magical items. If you don't play in PFS, and your GM doesn't ban them, then it is totally legal for a player character to craft one. Despite what the naysayers above say, they don't need construction requirements; they use the construction requirements of the base item. The only thing extra they need is the additional costs, to account for the increased power level of the item's sentient powers.
Excellent, thank you.