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You my friend must be unfamiliar with many archers, archery is the most OP style in Pathfinder and works well with many classes. I could probably quickly build a handful of archer with no ability score to damage that out damage your archers if you feel archery is weak.
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Archers are already at best slightly underpowered in Pathfinder no matter how you build them (they really only do one thing, ranged damage, and there are better ways of doing it), but an archer that can't add an ability score to their damage is completely worthless as a damage dealer and better be able to do something else to contribute.
To quote you...
Hahahahahahahahahah haha hah ha
That's some funny stuff there.
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You my friend must be unfamiliar with many archers, archery is the most OP style in Pathfinder and works well with many classes. I could probably quickly build a handful of archer with no ability score to damage that out damage your archers if you feel archery is weak.
Not that archery isn't very powerful, but missng 4 to 5 points of damage per hit is a pretty big shot to any build.
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You my friend must be unfamiliar with many archers, archery is the most OP style in Pathfinder and works well with many classes. I could probably quickly build a handful of archer with no ability score to damage that out damage your archers if you feel archery is weak.Not that archery isn't very powerful, but missing 4 to 5 points of damage per hit is a pretty big shot to any build.
True, they wont be winning the DPR olympics, but you can get a build that contributes solid damage.
Plus 4-5 damage via str on archery is RATHER high don't you think?
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Both of my archers are also full casters who made no sacrifices to their casting stat pretty much.
The high level eldritch knight does 30d6+96 with normal every single round attacks. He has 12 strength.
The mid level inquisitor does 5d8+10d6+50 and gets an additional 10d6+5 from sneak attack and point-blank sometimes. He has 10 strength.
I mean they could get more damage from strength but it is such a drop in the bucket it just doesn't matter. I agree on just making a no strength archer and put your points elsewhere.
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Even if it can't be adjusted, there is always Exceptional PullYeah, and I have that for free with the barbarian archetype, but it doesn't make any difference on a non composite bow and even on a composite bow, it doesn't make enough difference.
Ah.
Just wondering, which named bow were you thinking of? There aren't that many of them. Some even, specifically, adjust to the user.
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As I said before, I'm not talking about casters who happen to use bows. If you're a full caster you can wreck the game completely unarmed. The bow is just flavor. Telling me what your full caster can do with archery is not an accurate measure of how good or bad archers are, its a measure of how good full spellcasters are.
I wouldn't call the bow flavor so much as it is just easily the best way to do top tier damage. I still invested 7 feats toward archery on the inquisitor (and growing) and 10 on the eldritch knight. It is entirely part of the character and what they do but I don't let archery pigeonhole what they are capable of. Sure the fact they have this as an option speaks to the flexibility of caster classes but that is why I picked it.
If the prestige class with STR to hit on bows ranged attacks becomes legal I'm 100% sure a really high damage archer will come from that.
Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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I've played many, many spellcasters in the 3.5 days. Trying to play some classes that AREN'T tier 1 and figure out how to make them work now.As I said before, I'm not talking about casters who happen to use bows. If you're a full caster you can wreck the game completely unarmed. The bow is just flavor. Telling me what your full caster can do with archery is not an accurate measure of how good or bad archers are, its a measure of how good full spellcasters are.I wouldn't call the bow flavor so much as it is just easily the best way to do top tier damage. I still invested 7 feats toward archery on the inquisitor (and growing) and 10 on the eldritch knight. It is entirely part of the character and what they do but I don't let archery pigeonhole what they are capable of. Sure the fact they have this as an option speaks to the flexibility of caster classes but that is why I picked it.
If the prestige class with STR to hit on bows ranged attacks becomes legal I'm 100% sure a really high damage archer will come from that.
Except you just ranted about tier 3 classes. Yes being a spellcaster doesn't automatically make you tier 1. In fact Eldritch Knight Im pretty sure is a lower tier than anything you are currently trying to play.
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As I said in the OP, it was the kinbonded bow. It becomes quite underpowered at higher levels but it is cheap enough to get relatively early and serves as an improved precise shot substitute for a little while. Magic ammunition and the gloves that make every weapon you hold corrosive could help, but not being to add strength is a total deal breaker.
Noticed after I posted, but I can't seem to find it online. Got a link?
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It's a nice special ability, considering that Improved Precise Shot isn't available until the double digit levels. Shame it doesn't exist in a form that can be put a more custom bow.
Ah, thanks. I see your issue, but at the same time, a more costly bow/higher level character wouldn't need this ability at all. The ability is very limited, and really only has value because the bow is so cheap.
Additionally, since it doesn't ignore the penalty for shooting into melee, it really only applies in a very specific set of circumstances. Lob Shot would work here, as would allies with Low Profile.
A +1 Veering or +1 Seeking bow would probably yield closer to your desired route. Expensive, but a Phase Arrow would do this perfectly. Deadeye Leather would also do this, once per day.
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Half-Orc, Sacred Tattoo alternate, +2 goes into WIS
Traits: Deadeye Bowman, Reactionary
16/12/12/10/18/7
Zen Archer Monk 3/Warpriest 4 (do whatever you want after that; my recommendation is take Warpriest to 7 and grab Medium 1 for the Champion spirit, which equates to +1 to hit and +3 to damage)
Feats:
1) Keen Scent*, Monk B: Point-Blank Shot, Monk B: Perfect Strike, Monk B: Improved Unarmed Strike
2) Monk B: Precise Shot, Monk B: Weapon Focus (Comp Longbow)
3) Deadly Aim, Monk B: Point Blank Master
4) Warpriest B: Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)
5) Extra Traits (Fate's Favored, Magical Knack: Warpriest)
6) Warpriest B: ???? (retrain to Weapon Specialization at level 7)
7) Improved Initiative
*This is here to abuse Pheromone Arrows
By level 7, assuming no more gear than a +1 Comp Longbow (STR +3), you've got:
- Full Attack: +13/+13/+8 for 1d8+15 each (with +2 to hit and damage if the target is tagged with a Pheromone Arrow)
- +8 initiative
- Saves at +10/+7/+13
- 2nd level Warpriest spells (at CL6)
- 40ft movement
- Ability to use your bow while threatened
- Ability to threaten (via Unarmed Strike, at +12 for 1d6+6)
The main area of weakness here is AC. Without anything extra, you've only got 10 + 4 WIS + 1 DEX = 15 AC. But a super cheap Wand of Mage Armor puts you at 19 and you're good to go. Inevitable WIS increases will also up both your AC and your to-hit with the bow, not to mention improving spell casting and uses per day of Fervor. A WIS headband is an obvious must-buy.
Enjoy.
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scent normally has a range of 30 feet. So if you hit with a pheremone arrow you have.. super point blank shot?
Kinda. Scent range is technically variable by wind direction and other arbitrary factors. But, 1) Pheromone Arrows don't actually say anything about needing to be within scent range, just the need to have the ability, and 2) I've never actually seen a GM, in PFS or otherwise, take scent ranges into account.
But, yes, by a restrictive GM it's just "super Point-Blank shot", which is still really, really good. Especially considering that, with the ability to use the bow without provoking and to threaten enemies yourself, you don't really mind getting in and mixing it up in Point-Blank range, unlike many other archer builds.
Oh, also, just noticed I made a typo up there.
Should be +7 initiative, not +8.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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Most fights happen at a scale that Point-Blank Shot would be a decent feat even if it wasn't a prerequisite for anything...It's definitely one of the tax feats that I never mind taking. Not like stupid Combat Expertise...
I'd still like Precise Shot as a first feat. Just so you can have newbies start their elven ranger or similar classic concept without a first-level handicap.
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I'd still like Precise Shot as a first feat. Just so you can have newbies start their elven ranger or similar classic concept without a first-level handicap.Most fights happen at a scale that Point-Blank Shot would be a decent feat even if it wasn't a prerequisite for anything...It's definitely one of the tax feats that I never mind taking. Not like stupid Combat Expertise...
That's not unreasonable.
I don't really think much about that anymore because I basically start all my characters at 2 or 3 (play something survivable to blob to 5 XP from Wounded Wisp, Confirmation, and Emerald Spire 1, then GM something to tick it up to level 3 if it still sucks at 2).
It makes sense for non-PFS games starting at 1 and for newer PFS players who don't know how to abuse the blob system, though. For those kinds of people who want to play non-human archers, I often recommend starting with a level of Divine Hunter Paladin or Zen Archer Monk, to get that free Precise Shot on any race. A bonus feat and Deadeye Bowman is basically the only way to be "on" as a level 1 archer.
Archers are already at best slightly underpowered in Pathfinder no matter how you build them (they really only do one thing, ranged damage, and there are better ways of doing it), but an archer that can't add an ability score to their damage is completely worthless as a damage dealer and better be able to do something else to contribute.
Well, not if you have a common enemy type, as in Giantslayer, Mummy's Mask, etc. The ranger in our GS party is by far the most deadly at 13th level. He generally drops a minimum of 1 baddie per round, often a few before the fighter can close on any of them. However, I do realize that most campaigns aren't as archer friendly.
I know that Hero Lab won't let you modify a named weapon, but it will allow you to name a weapon (masterwork or better) that you've customized.