This is where some questions may get a bit cheesey. Be warned. Player in question is trying to make throwing daggers not suck. I feel the pain.
Daggers can be melee weapons or thrown weapons. A level 3 unchained rogue, with 3 levels of flying blade from swashbuckler uses daggers.
When throwing the daggers he applies point blank shot getting +1 to hit and damage if they are within 30 feet. This is understandable.
The same dagger is in his hand and he strikes at a guy in melee with it, technically its the same weapon, therefor ranged weapon, the guy is obviously within 30 feet, is it reasonable RAW or otherwise, it should gain +1 attack and damage?
What about at level 7 when he gets his iterative attack? Can he make one attack in melee, say he kills a guy, then throw his dagger for his second attack at a nearby enemy not in melee range? if so, per rapid shot, after you make one attack with a ranged weapon, NOT a ranged attack, you get one more shot, so then, this would technically allow a third attack in this sequence, and without having iterative attacks allow two attacks to be done at the first level one posses rapid shot..
Furthermore, if the person should posses startoss style, the dagger feats into its prerequisites, it states bonus to damage rolls of 2+ per starttoss style feats possessed. So if the dagger attacked it gets +2 damage, it does not state the blade has to be throw again, just when making attacks with this weapon...
RAW, RAI, Cheese, and other comments are allowed, if you can cite rules reasons, common sense reasons if you feel the need, but lets keep this pg rated and no personal attacks please.
Also on a side note, how broke would the flying blade be at all, if instead of starknife or dagger it was allowed to use something like the chakram? thoughts? Thanks all!
From CRB: "Melee and Ranged Weapons: Melee weapons are used for making melee attacks, though some of them can be thrown as well. Ranged weapons are thrown weapons or projectile weapons that are not effective in melee."
So a dagger is a melee weapon when making melee attacks, and a ranged weapon when thrown.
Point Blank Shot only works with ranged weapons so does not apply when used as a melee weapon.
Rapid Shot requires a full attack action with a ranged weapon, so using it as a melee weapon for the first iterative eliminates use of Rapid Shot.
Startoss Style could be better written as RAW it could be interpreted to apply to a weapon in the thrown weapon group used as a melee weapon.
A melee attack isn't a ranged attack, so bonuses that apply only to ranged attacks don't apply to melee attacks. Including point blank shot.
Of course, the player could throw a dagger at an adjacent enemy (provoking AoO in the process) if they really wanted that extra attack and damage bonus (it's probably a bad idea).
The way rapid shot it written, it does not seem to function if you attempt to make any melee attacks.
Startoss Style as written doesn't mention anything about requiring ranged attacks. Only using weapons in the thrown weapon group, so in theory the daggers would qualify for the damage bonus.
Don't forget though, you technically have to activate Startoss Style each combat as a swift action.
Anyways, the best thrown weapon user is a molthuni arsenal chaplain warprist or fighter which uses Richochet Toss and Advanced Weapon Training to options to really deal a lot of damage. Bonus points if you decide to worship Desna so you can use Starry Grace.
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This is where some questions may get a bit cheesey. Be warned. Player in question is trying to make throwing daggers not suck. I feel the pain.
If looking for DPS cheese, the Ninja is what you want. First, you can use the Ki pool to Buy extra attacks. The ninja ki pool is gained at 2nd level and is CHA based.
There's a ninja trick from Champions of Balance, called Kamikazi. Makes all your melee attacks have the Vicious property for a short period. Costs ki.
And ninjas retain sneak attack and gain poison use.
So if the goal is just damage, a Medium sized 2nd level ninja with 14 strength and two weapon fighting, can dish out 3 attacks with Daggers during a full attack action (1 main, one off-hand, then a second main one bought with ki). Assuming they all hit, and are all sneak attacks (flanked opponent), you'd deal 3d4+9d6+4 (3d4+4 weapon, 3d6 sneak, and 6d6 untyped vicious) combined damage in a single round. You could also apply up to 2 doses of poison in this. That said, vicious would also deal 3d6 to you, which at 2nd level, would probably drop you.
Ninjas make amazing glass cannons.
I'm working on a Titan Fighter/Ninja build, presently. Large Vicious Greatsword...
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Startoss Style could be better written as RAW it could be interpreted to apply to a weapon in the thrown weapon group used as a melee weapon.
The author intended that interpretation.
But the design team provided a clarification to PFS:
The Startoss Style feat's bonus on damage rolls applies when making ranged weapon attacks with thrown weapons, not when making melee weapon attacks with them.
A melee attack isn't a ranged attack, so bonuses that apply only to ranged attacks don't apply to melee attacks. Including point blank shot.
That has been a pretty consistent interpretation from various design team posts. If you have something that helps for one type of attack, it doesn't help for others. Which is probably why the author's intent didn't follow through.
Startoss Style could be better written as RAW it could be interpreted to apply to a weapon in the thrown weapon group used as a melee weapon.The author intended that interpretation.
But the design team provided a clarification to PFS:
The Startoss Style feat's bonus on damage rolls applies when making ranged weapon attacks with thrown weapons, not when making melee weapon attacks with them.A melee attack isn't a ranged attack, so bonuses that apply only to ranged attacks don't apply to melee attacks. Including point blank shot.That has been a pretty consistent interpretation from various design team posts. If you have something that helps for one type of attack, it doesn't help for others. Which is probably why the author's intent didn't follow through.
That's great for abilities that depend on an attack, but some things just depend on thrown weapons. For instance, a far strike monk gets proficiency on all thrown weapons: this seems to have the same intent as the feat as proficiency would blink and off depending on how a weapon was used it it was based on the type of attack.
You'll possibly need a dip for the prerequisites, but the Outslug Sprint feat on a rogue with both the Scout and Knife Master archetypes can get d8 sneak attack full attacks anytime they want.
Note that normally, it is very difficult to get ranged sneak attacks, since flanking does not qualify.
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You'll possibly need a dip for the prerequisites, but the Outslug Sprint feat on a rogue with both the Scout and Knife Master archetypes can get d8 sneak attack full attacks anytime they want.
Note that normally, it is very difficult to get ranged sneak attacks, since flanking does not qualify.
The Skirmisher ability is limited to the first attack.
So it is. That makes doing it with Rogue near impossible without Ranged Feint.