Petition: Allow Ninja to Brew - Not Just Buy - Poison

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

Apologies if this isn't the right forum - then again, this is a PFS-specific matter.

It has come to my attention that, under current Society rules, it does NOT appear that Ninja are allowed to brew their own poisons using Craft (Alchemy), despite, having Poison Use as a standard class feature. Given that they do, and that, for instance, Slayers with a specific (optional, in their case) Talent are specifically enabled to do so, I think it would be reasonable to change that.

/signed

[wellsmv]

i vote= NO

i prefer less shenanigans in game

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

I don't see how it would be "shenanigans" - none of the Society-approved poisons are terribly powerful, and Ninja can already access poison; this would just let them get them for cheaper (not counting the cost of Craft [Alchemy] ranks).

[Michael Hallet]

Absolutely in favor. It's a skill real ninjas had, so why not Pathfinder ninjas.

[BlackOuroboros]

wellsmv wrote:

i vote= NO

i prefer less shenanigans in game

CORE is that way ---->

[Fromper]

For what it's worth, I'm in favor, too. IMHO, if you're going to let some classes craft poison in Society, then it should be allowed for any class that gets it as a standard class feature, but maybe not those that only have optional access to it (like the slayer talent mentioned above).

[wellsmv]

all it takes is a ninja finding 1 poisons creature in quest.. and then you have the whole party with poison coated weapons..

and there are a few creatures with some pretty nasty poisons.
are we only going to let them craft certain posions-the ones on the list ?

is it fair that they get them cheaper than others?

Its much simpler to have any class ( or archetype) that has " poison use" can buy the poison- from the list

[Red Metal]

wellsmv wrote:

all it takes is a ninja finding 1 poisons creature in quest.. and then you have the whole party with poison coated weapons..

It still takes time and money to craft poison, and there probably won't be time to craft during a scenario. Plus they'd still be restricted to crafting the poisons allowed by Additional Resources, I see nothing that would suggest otherwise.

Quote:

and there are a few creatures with some pretty nasty poisons.

are we only going to let them craft certain posions-the ones on the list ?

Like I said above, no one suggested allowing ninjas the ability to craft any poison they'd like; they'd only be allowed to make poisons listed as legal in Additional Resources, just like alchemists, investigators, poisoner rogues, etc.

Quote:

is it fair that they get them cheaper than others?

I'd say it's more than fair. Poisons aren't exactly the most useful thing, and a fair number of common enemies (undead, elementals in season 8) are completely immune to them. And unlike alchemists/investigators, there's no archetypes they can take to trade it away, so they're stuck with it.

Quote:

Its much simpler to have any class ( or archetype) that has " poison use" can buy the poison- from the list

It may be simpler, but the fact of the matter is that other classes that gain Poison Use can craft poisons, and I see no reason to exclude the Ninja.

[Ragoz]

We are just going to run into this issue again eventually down the line if it the FAQ isn't made inclusive. Is there a reason all characters who have the poison use class feature can't craft poisons?

I vote yes at the very least.

[Fromper]

wellsmv wrote:

all it takes is a ninja finding 1 poisons creature in quest.. and then you have the whole party with poison coated weapons..

and there are a few creatures with some pretty nasty poisons.
are we only going to let them craft certain posions-the ones on the list ?

is it fair that they get them cheaper than others?

Its much simpler to have any class ( or archetype) that has " poison use" can buy the poison- from the list

Bear in mind that four other classes already have what's being requested here. The question isn't whether or not ANY characters should have this ability. The question is whether it's fair that ninjas are excluded from stuff that other poison users can already do.

[BlackOuroboros]

wellsmv wrote:

all it takes is a ninja finding 1 poisons creature in quest.. and then you have the whole party with poison coated weapons..

and there are a few creatures with some pretty nasty poisons.
are we only going to let them craft certain posions-the ones on the list ?

is it fair that they get them cheaper than others?

Its much simpler to have any class ( or archetype) that has " poison use" can buy the poison- from the list

This is just unilaterally factually wrong. Alchemists and rogues already have access to this capability, it's not unreasonable to request Ninjas get access to it as well. I recommend reviewing the FAQ and familiarizing yourself on the subject matter before commenting again.

[Jason Wu]

I would even go as far as to suggest that any class that has Poison Use be allowed to craft Poison.

-j

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

BlackOuroboros wrote:

This is just unilaterally factually wrong. Alchemists and rogues already have access to this capability, it's not unreasonable to request Ninjas get access to it as well. I recommend reviewing the FAQ and familiarizing yourself on the subject matter before commenting again.

An attack post comes up, and it's not directed at ME, or even my position - how strange!

@wellsmv: My sympathy!

@BlackOuroboros: We're on the same side, but that was a little zealous. It's okay, really.

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

Michael Hallet wrote:

Absolutely in favor. It's a skill real ninjas had, so why not Pathfinder ninjas.

The "historical fidelity" line of argument did occur to me, but then I thought "Really? Of all famous fantasy character concepts, I'm going to seriously try to use that argument for NINJA???"

Jason Wu wrote:

I would even go as far as to suggest that any class that has Poison Use be allowed to craft Poison.

-j

I was trying to be conservative in what I asked for - for example, Vishkanya (I have one of those) get Poison Use as a racial feature; should they get the ability to craft poisons too, or should their access to the poison market be viewed as bonus enough already? If they do, does a character of that race get anything extra if they are of a poison-making class?

[Z...D...]

I have my Vishkanya, and having access to buy poison is good enough for me.

As far as ninja, I would agree with the majority. It gains posion use as a class feature, and Poisoner Rogues gain access to it when they get it as a class feature.

If a clarification came out stating that all classes that grant you the poison use ability is able to craft poison using the rules already put into place. I would not be against it. It just makes since.

[Hmm]

Hmm raises her hand in favor of this position.

Hmm

[BlackOuroboros]

I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:

@BlackOuroboros: We're on the same side, but that was a little zealous. It's okay, really.

*shrug* I thought it was pretty tame actually. The guy was speaking misinformation that a 30 second search on either the FAQ or how the Craft skill worked would have cleared up and I merely recommended he do his research before continuing.

[wellsmv]

so what aboutvishkanya and grippli with poison- can they craft poison and sell it ?

[Claxon]

Not that I play PFS, but I think either all the classes with a class feature related to producing poison should be allowed to do so if any are allowed to do so.

Of course, I don't think any should be allowed in the first place and that Slayers should lose the option to do so.

One of the key things of PFS was "no crafting", or so I thought.

[Z...D...]

wellsmv wrote:

so what aboutvishkanya and grippli with poison- can they craft poison and sell it ?

IMO no. The poison that they are used to are of there own natural production, not something that they would craft. They would need additional training to manufacture different poisons. I guess they could sell there saliva or blood to make money. But not In PFS

[Fromper]

wellsmv wrote:

so what aboutvishkanya and grippli with poison- can they craft poison and sell it ?

FAQ on Alchemists and Investigators crafting alchemical items in PFS wrote:

Alchemists and investigators may never sell any of their created items

FAQ on poison crafting in PFS wrote:

Alchemists, investigators, slayers with the Poison Use slayer talent, and some archetypes of other classes listed in the Additional Resources can use Craft (alchemy) to produce poisons that are legal for them to purchase. Use the rules listed in "How can alchemists and investigators craft in the Roleplaying Guild?" in the Character and Class section of the FAQ.

So nobody can sell crafted goods in PFS, regardless of what they're crafting. This entire conversation is about crafting goods for your own use, not to sell them.

[TheFlyingPhoton]

I vote nobody should be allowed to craft poisons.

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

*BUMP*

[Philippe Lam]

Still nope

[Linda Zayas-Palmer]

Ninjas and all other PCs with Poison Use can craft poisons. Take a look at How do poisons work in the Roleplaying Guild?

[Gary Bush]

Interesting that this FAQ has been out almost 2 years.

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

Why, yes, I just saw that elsewhere!

Thank you, and mission accomplished.

Also: Nice shoebill avatar.

[Linda Zayas-Palmer]

Huh, my avatar does kinda look like a shoebill. It's actually a nosoi psychopomp, from Bestiary 4. These little guys are scribes of the Boneyard.
I'm a big fan of the creepy+cute aesthetic. I had a nosoi as an Improved Familiar on my Eyes of the Ten PC. He would frequently sing songs to the party, and he was not above being bribed with raspberry pie.