April 29th 2017 Updates of Note


Pathfinder Society

5/5 Venture-Agent, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka Pirate Rob

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Additional Resources

and

Campaign Clarifications

have been updated.

What things of note have changed?

Wristsheath clarification:

Yes on potions/scrolls. No on rods.

Full Text:
A wrist sheath or spring-loaded wrist sheath can hold one forearm-length item. In addition to the listed examples, wrist sheaths can be used to store and deploy potions and scrolls. They cannot hold rods.

Psychic Anthology:
All panaoplies are legal*! (Except except mage's paraphernalia and trappings of the warrior.)

So really only 2/4. (I expect to run into the occasional play who is very disapointed to learn they haven't read the full thing.

Scarab Sages 5/5

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I'm excited to finally have a campaign ruling on the potion/scroll/rod in a wrist sheath.

now we don't have to have long internet arguments over whether a scroll or a potion can withstand the rigors of a spring-loaded delivery.

Silver Crusade

Phantom Blade was the archetype I was waiting for.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5

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Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

I thought I was very liberal by allowing potions and scrolls at my tables, and then I GMed at a Convention where a player steadfastly argued that rods were "absolutely legal".

It was one of those experiences that changes your whole perspective.

I'm glad that corner case was answered.

Grand Lodge 5/5 5/55/55/5 Venture-Captain, Online—PbP aka Hmm

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We can have Breath of Life scrolls in wrist sheaths? AWESOME!

Hmm

The Exchange 5/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Belafon

Spring-loaded wrist sheathes: I didn't allow scrolls but I didn't raise a fuss when other GMs did allow them. I never saw anyone trying to use potions and frankly I'm surprised they are allowed. As for rods, the only people I met (in person) who wanted to use them hadn't seen the first edition of Adventurer's Armory. Everyone who was shown the old text referring to weight limits agreed that it was almost certainly not intended to allow rods. That's in person, there's plenty of people who love to argue "It doesn't say I can't!" online. Anyway, glad it's cleared up.

Panoplies: I haven't followed the discussions about the Panoplies closely so I'm not sure what made the Mage and Warrior unacceptable. I do think they are more powerful than the other two and I can definitely come up with some optimized ways to use them, but not overly so compared to legal options for other classes. Panoply Savant, yeah. If you were intending to take a Panoply, there was no reason not to take that archetype.

5/5 Venture-Agent, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka Pirate Rob

The Warrior Panoply allows an Occultist to get full BAB with a quite small investment.

Making it the only 6th level caster full BAB option.


I wonder why Totem Spiritualist was not allowed? I guess it had o do with the fact that it was not clear if the animal phantom needed to be commanded with Handle Animal, which the archetype does not grant.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Nohwear wrote:
I wonder why Totem Spiritualist was not allowed? I guess it had o do with the fact that it was not clear if the animal phantom needed to be commanded with Handle Animal, which the archetype does not grant.

I figured it was the "multiple pets" angle.

Liberty's Edge

I am disappointed that the Trappings of the Warrior is not legal, but I am not surprised. I will continue with the character that panoply inspired and hope for the best.

The Exchange 5/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Belafon

Pirate Rob wrote:

The Warrior Panoply allows an Occultist to get full BAB with a quite small investment.

Making it the only 6th level caster full BAB option.

Oh, I agree that it's nice. I just think the downside of basically delaying learning an implement school (to learn the panoply) is a nice balance. That 5th level Warrior Panoply may have a +5 BAB put he also only knows 1 first level abjuration, 1 first level transmutation, 1 2nd level abjuration, and 1 2nd level transmutation. Not that those are bad schools for a battle caster. As I mentioned above, I do think the two banned Panoplies are the "more powerful" of the Panoplies. I just don't see them as overpowering compared to other class builds.

Possible source of confusion/argument:
If it had been legal I could definitely see arguments about taking feats that require a certain BAB as the ability says it's "When wielding the weapon used as the panoply’s associated implement."

"Improved Critical is specific to that weapon, and the resonant power lasts as long as I have focus in it, so I can learn the feat."

"I can learn Vital Strike as long as I hold the weapon while I'm learning it even though I could use it with any weapon."

"Insert various style feat discussions here."

So that might be another reason for banning that particular Panoply

It is what it is. In any event, I didn't have plans to make an Occultist :)

5/5

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Kevin Willis wrote:
Pirate Rob wrote:

The Warrior Panoply allows an Occultist to get full BAB with a quite small investment.

Making it the only 6th level caster full BAB option.

Oh, I agree that it's nice. I just think the downside of basically delaying learning an implement school (to learn the panoply) is a nice balance. That 5th level Warrior Panoply may have a +5 BAB put he also only knows 1 first level abjuration, 1 first level transmutation, 1 2nd level abjuration, and 1 2nd level transmutation. Not that those are bad schools for a battle caster. As I mentioned above, I do think the two banned Panoplies are the "more powerful" of the Panoplies. I just don't see them as overpowering compared to other class builds.

** spoiler omitted **

It is what it is. In any event, I didn't have plans to make an Occultist :)

In fact, a panoply doesn't cost you any spells known: you actually get an extra spell known of each level that can come from any of the associated schools (so it's actually more flexible than taking a third implement school in terms of where you can place the spells known).

The Exchange 5/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Belafon

Rogue Eidolon wrote:
Kevin Willis wrote:
Pirate Rob wrote:

The Warrior Panoply allows an Occultist to get full BAB with a quite small investment.

Making it the only 6th level caster full BAB option.

Oh, I agree that it's nice. I just think the downside of basically delaying learning an implement school (to learn the panoply) is a nice balance. That 5th level Warrior Panoply may have a +5 BAB put he also only knows 1 first level abjuration, 1 first level transmutation, 1 2nd level abjuration, and 1 2nd level transmutation. Not that those are bad schools for a battle caster. As I mentioned above, I do think the two banned Panoplies are the "more powerful" of the Panoplies. I just don't see them as overpowering compared to other class builds.

** spoiler omitted **

It is what it is. In any event, I didn't have plans to make an Occultist :)

In fact, a panoply doesn't cost you any spells known: you actually get an extra spell known of each level that can come from any of the associated schools (so it's actually more flexible than taking a third implement school in terms of where you can place the spells known).

Gah, I missed that line.

I retract my earlier statement (about the spells being a balancing factor, I still don't think the occultist suddenly becomes a demigod). Like I said, I haven't read too closely into the panoply discussions.

Hey Mark, is there any chance you could look into a "cleanup" of rules appearing in Player Companions and Campaign Setting books? Maybe it's just me but there seems to be an awful lot more explanatory rules text appearing in the opening paragraphs of a section before "the things you choose for your character" than there used to be. (Meditation spells come to mind.)

I'm not sure exactly what I'm asking for here as this is off the top of my head. Maybe more examples: "At first level Mavaro chooses a longsword and a light steel shield as his focus implements, gaining powers and choosing spells as normal. At second level, he chooses the Trappings of the Warrior panoply instead of a specific implement as his third implement. He gains the Martial Skill resonant power and the Combat Trick focus power as long as he has invested focus in both his sword and his shield. He also chooses one new spell of each level he can cast from either the abjuration or the transmutation school to add to his list of spells known. At third level he gains a new focus power and can choose Warrior's Resilience from his panoply as his focus power instead of a focus power from abjuration or transmutation implements."


Spell Mastery was opened up to any prepared arcane caster (and Alchemists and Investigators)

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/55/55/55/5 Venture-Captain, Indiana—Southern aka CanisDirus

If I'm reading this update right, it means that PFS PCs can now learn to speak:

Aboleth, Sasquatch, Munavri, Protean*, Rougarou, Elder Thing, Mi-go, Yaddithian, and Yithian*.

That seems of note to me!

* (maybe PCs could before with this one? Not 100% sure for my part)

(Aboleth was made illegal in the notes on an earlier Bestiary - my bad)

2/5 5/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

Are we supposed to know what the ** mean in the AR? I couldn't find any footnotes.

The Exchange

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Blake's Tiger wrote:
Are we supposed to know what the ** mean in the AR? I couldn't find any footnotes.
Quote:
** Products marked with a double asterisk also appear on the Campaign Clarifications page. See that document for more information.

At the top of the page.

3/5 Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro aka MadScientistWorking

Pirate Rob wrote:

The Warrior Panoply allows an Occultist to get full BAB with a quite small investment.

Making it the only 6th level caster full BAB option.

Its really not that hard to compensate for a 3/4 class because there are spells that fix the progression. You don't get the extra iterative but ehhhhh once again later on spells fix that.... The problem is that with the occultist I think (Not sure about panoply rules) you can compensate three times with the panoply which is a bit overboard.


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Authorial Ramblings:
I'm not surprised that some of my stuff didn't make it in. The silksworn and the pageantry discipline both had problematic aspects. Not sure what the story is for the inerrant voice, but I trust them. I know some folks who will be sad that lover's breath and the headband of social competence didn't make it.

As for what did make the cut... I can start finalizing my butterfly blade, Dragonscale loyalist, and kinetic knight plans. Though I didn't write it (I only offered suggestions on the author's work), I'm very happy to see that the kindness emotional focus made it. Time to finish my aasimar id rager. ^_^

I am a little surprised that the Dragonscale loyalist didn't get a clarification or limitation for its 60% resale ability. I guess Leadership isn't as worried about it as I expected.

2/5 5/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Ragoz wrote:
Blake's Tiger wrote:
Are we supposed to know what the ** mean in the AR? I couldn't find any footnotes.
Quote:
** Products marked with a double asterisk also appear on the Campaign Clarifications page. See that document for more information.
At the top of the page.

Thank you!

3/5

Isabelle Lee wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

I am a little surprised that the Dragonscale loyalist didn't get a clarification or limitation for its 60% resale ability. I guess Leadership isn't as worried about it as I expected.

If you don't mind me asking, why do you think Silksworn wasn't given the go ahead? It seemed very flavorful and killing off the psychic ability to cast in heavy armor and re-introducing the arcane casting problems seemed like a fair balance to me, and getting more implements was cool but also required spreading your mental focus further. Is there something I'm missing that made it super good?

5/5

Matthais777 wrote:
Isabelle Lee wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

I am a little surprised that the Dragonscale loyalist didn't get a clarification or limitation for its 60% resale ability. I guess Leadership isn't as worried about it as I expected.

If you don't mind me asking, why do you think Silksworn wasn't given the go ahead? It seemed very flavorful and killing off the psychic ability to cast in heavy armor and re-introducing the arcane casting problems seemed like a fair balance to me, and getting more implements was cool but also required spreading your mental focus further. Is there something I'm missing that made it super good?

I was wondering the same thing, I was quite looking forward to playing one. You get to be rather more castery but don't get any more spell slots per day and give up much of any chance of doing physical combat given the lack of any armour.

Overall I was rather disappointed with the amount of stuff which was banhammered this time round.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Silksworn Deception (Su)

At 12th level, a silksworn can hide his speech and gestures within his extravagant clothing.

Whenever the silksworn casts a spell, he can attempt a Bluff check opposed by Sense Motive checks from those observing him. Those who fail are unaware of his spellcasting, unless an effect obviously originates from the silksworn.

Previous attempts at hidden spellcasting were banned because they had too narrow a range of options to detect: the one current legal option has a moderately scaling dc with three skills able to detect it. This one has a much rarer skill against a much higher DC. I know its 12th level, but pfs is slowly pushing itself into higher level play.


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Re: silksworn, my suspicion is that the amount of spellcasting they get access to, right from first level, may have caused some concerns. It was described elsewhere on the boards as "the best six-level spellcaster" [for spellcasting]. So... it might have been a little too worrisome. (Also, you do get more spells per day at 8th, 12th, and 16th levels.) While I hoped it might get a clarification to tone it down to a satisfactory degree, it was not to be.

I know a few other folks who were hoping it would be legalized. If someone ends up starting a Legalization thread, and if their arguments are solid and well-constructed, I'll be there. I had my own silksworn in mind, after all. ^_^

(EDIT: BNW might be on to something as well. I really couldn't say.)

4/5

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Bummer. Making a Silksworn was the best idea I had had yet for using my changeling race boon. (Spoiled rich girl refuses to become a hag because she can't live without the cute shoes and couture fashions her daddy bought her. "I grant your weapon the fierceness of my Jimmy Choo's!")

Grand Lodge 5/5 5/55/55/5 Venture-Captain, Online—PbP aka Hmm

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It may be that the Silksworn is being saved for a chronicle boon?

Hmm

Shadow Lodge 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Jacksonville aka Kyrie Ebonblade,

Shame, I was good to go with my Vudrani Ratfolk Silksworn 'Mobster kid' face for the party... now I need to figure how to run the boon now that I have the race tied to a PFS number

Silver Crusade 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh aka Terminalmancer

Hrm. Legalistic Reading is legal but has a prerequisite of Scribe Scroll. It's not terribly powerful in any event.

3/5

I'm sad that Silent Image was cut from Kinetic Invocation. Likely it would have remained if it had been 1 instead of 0 burn, but since you need to concentrate and spellcasting is obvious, I'm not sure how it is too much more powerful than having a wand for 2pp. Higher save, I suppose, due to using your con mod instead of the +0 stat mod from a wand. Then again, a lot of good use of that spell comes without the save kicking in, or in getting people to waste an action to attempt the save. I really would have preferred it to my current disguise self at-will, since the latter seems to require a skill I'm dreadful in to use, but them's the breaks. Never saw that particular call-out/exemption coming though.

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