Build Question for Pathfinder Society (PFS)
Classes: Monk (Hamatulatsu Master) 1 / Druid (Saurian Shaman) 10
Race: Dwarf
STR: 16 DEX: 12 CON: 16 INT: 8 WIS: 17 CHA: 6
Domain: War (Tactics)
Traits: 1) Adopted (Ifrit) à Fiery Glare 2) Blade of Mercy
Monk Feats at 1st Level: Unarmed Strike Bonus Feat: Intimidating Prowess
1: Enforcer
3: Dragon Style
5: Planar Wild Shape (Retrained if needed)
7: Natural Spell
9: Spell Focus Conjuration vs Steel Soul
10: Bonus Feat (saurian shaman) Power Attack
11: Augment Summoning vs (TBD)
Fluff: Trained as a Monk dedicated to Asmodeus from birth she has a crisis of faith converts to Sarenae runs off to the wilderness and becomes a druid.
Plan:
Level 1-2: Hit things with a big Stick (Shelagh)
Level 3-5: Melee with Natural Weapons using Blade of Mercy & Enforcer to free action intimidate on hit and using a Amulet of Mighty Fists (Cruel) to apply Sickened
Level 6: Add standard action Summons to the mix
Level 7-11: Turn into a huge pouncing Celestial or Fiendish Allosaurus that wrecks faces with 24-26 Strength, a massive bonus to intimidate, Vine Strike (entangle on hit +1d6), Frostbite (fatigue on hit +1d6 nonlethal), Intimidate (shaken & feared on crit), sickened if shaken, grappled if hit with Bite, and raked on a charge
Bonus abilities: Spell Casting L1-5, Wild shape, Good Perception
Items required for build.
Belt of the Weasel – It gives the Compression monster ability which is how I plan on taking a huge Allosaurus indoors. Dragon Style will let me charge through my allies and difficult terrain and 15 foot reach should let me make full attacks on a regular basis.
Planned Items:
Deliquescent Gloves 8k, AoMF (Cruel) 4k, Swarm Bane Clasp 3k, Headband of Wisdom 4/16k, Druids Vestments 3k, Ring of Eloquence 3.5k, Cloak of Resistance1/4/9, Dusty Rose Prism +1 AC (resonant power +2 CMB/CMD) 5k, Pale blue Rhomboid +2 STR (resonant power +1 Fort)8k
Consumables:
Potion of Enlarge, Potion of Mage Armor, Gravely Tonic +5 Alchemical Bonus to Intimidate for 1hr
Also please hold the do you have the source comments I have a large selection of print books and even more splat books in PDF.
Questions
1. Is one level of monk really worth it? It gives me Wisdom to AC two feats I need for the build (Intimidating Prowess and Unarmed Strike) and intimidate as a class skill but I lose 1 level of spell casting. The delayed druid progression also eliminates the need to retrain to Natural Spell at L6 (cost -- 5PP & 3,000 gold)
2. Is dwarf my best race option? Human would give me 1 more feat and skill and change my stats to STR: 17 DEX: 14 CON: 14 INT: 10 WIS: 15 CHA: 7
3. Would it be better to go Druid 6 – Monk 1 – Druid 4 or Druid 2 –Monk 1 – Druid 7? It wouldn’t work well with my Fluff but maybe I could find a storyline to make it work
4. Did I miss anything that isn’t PFS Legal
5. Any additional suggestions
6. What do you think of a Charge/Pounce or Full attack routine as follows?
a. Pre-buffs Vine Strike is minutes per level & Frostbite is 1 touch per CL (Frostbite for tough fights only)
i. Claw 1: Trip attempt discharge Frostbite for 1d6 plus fatigue. No return AoO unless they also have 15 foot reach.
ii. Bite 1: Grapple on hit, slashing non-lethal free action Intimidate, frostbite 1d6, Vine strike 1d6 + entangle
iii. Claw 2: Intimidate if first Intimidate failed or missed second attempt if it hit cruel weapon applies sickened
iv. Rake 1: repeat claw 2 or repeat trip
v. Rake 2: repeat claw 2 or repeat trip
b. By the end if the target isn’t unconscious from damage he should be Shaken, Sickened, & Entangled (-6 attack, -2AC, ½ movement, -4 saves) and possibly prone, grappled, and fatigued (-7 attack, -7AC, AoO if they stand up, AoO if they move, 5ft movement speed)
7. What are my weaknesses
I'll double check when I get home, but iirc correctly that monk archetype isn't PFS legal.
Wouldn't surprise me I saw that it had Intimidating Prowess and got excited. Archives of Nethys indicates it's legal. I checked additional resources and it doesn't call it out by name and I don't have inner sea combat loaded on my phone so I can't check that. Assuming archives of Nethys is correct for the moment how does everything look.
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Questions
1. Is one level of monk really worth it? It gives me Wisdom to AC two feats I need for the build (Intimidating Prowess and Unarmed Strike) and intimidate as a class skill but I lose 1 level of spell casting. The delayed druid progression also eliminates the need to retrain to Natural Spell at L6 (cost -- 5PP & 3,000 gold)
retraining costs gp equal to 10 × your level × the number of days required to retrain (5 days for a feat)
So that's 50g times your level. Unless your level is 60, I'm not seeing anything that would make it cost 3000g to retrain a feat.
A few minor thoughts...
You've got an amulet of mighty fists and a swarm bane clasp. But if you're walking around as a dinosaur with your gear melded into you, how are you going to swap out those amulets when needed?
If you grapple with your bite before you take your rake attacks, then your full-attack ends.
Combining two thoughts.. What are you planning on doing out of combat? With an int of 8 you're only getting 3 skill points per level. I would suggest dropping your wisdom to 16 (14+2), that would give you 5 more points and let you increase your int to 12 (plus one more to do whatever with) giving you 5 skill points per level.
Now combine that thought with the following. Always taking 10 on Intimidate checks is statistically worse than taking the average (of 10.5). So, not including any bonuses besides your charisma, the average of that "roll" is an 8. If you were to Bruising Intellect (add int instead of cha to intimidate) instead of Fiery Gaze, then your average roll now becomes an 11.5. With this a skill you really care about goes up by ~3.5 (worth more than a feat (i.e. worth more than skill focus)) and now you've got more stuff you can do out of combat because you're getting 2 more skills per level.
For your planned items, are you planning on resonating both ioun stones (I ask because you specifically state the resonant power of both)? You'll need an ebon wayfinder then, and I don't see that in your planned items. You can only resonate one Ioun stone without a very expensive wayfinder.
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You will have trouble charging with that build, especially since you need a legal space to end your movement.
To charge you need to move at least 10 ft. directly towards your enemy, and end your movement as soon as you can make a melee attack again him (15 ft.) so you need 9 unoccupied squares in that exact location.
Better prepare a second smaller wild shape form, and use air a lot.
Claudekennilol mentioned a couple of other good points (though I have my doubts about the grapple bit).
Another weakness would be your hit points, even while starting with 16 constitution, no con belt and no toughness will be noticeable at later levels.
Vine Strike and Frostbite are amazing but one gives a saves and is subject to SR and the other one is subject to SR (and negatived of the enemy is sufficiently resistant to frost damage or nonlethal damage).
I would not invest quite as much into intimidate personally.
And I also have doubts that you can deliver touch spells with a combat maneuver, you better double check that one.
Good thoughts so far thanks to everyone : )
Regarding the swarm bane clasp and the AoMF it's a 2am oversight. But there is a bag that doesn't merge with your forms I could put it into. I can't remember the name but a little searching and I'll find it.
As for resonant power from the ioun. Stones I'd chose one for the resonant power. I like the +2 CMB/CMD resort ant power more but I'm more likely to buy the +2 strength enhancement first.
As for grapple I have to look at the grapple flow chart every time I decide to do it and this time I just forgot that it ended my full attack. It just means the bite has to go last.
As for the out of combat question that's a good point I have a sorceress that I have played and I enjoy the out of combat aspect. I was going for something different here but I think too differently the human build gives me +2 skill points per level and I could use the bonus feat for fast learner gaining me both skill points and hp per level.
As for tight spaces if I go human I could focus more on summoning (SF & Augment Summons) in human form and the saurian aspect has 3 natural attacks and the build includes a good strength. I wouldn't be a front liner but I would contribute without being in everyone's way. It was my plan at earlier levels.
As for the focus on intimidate I really just have 1 item AoMF (cruel), 1 standard feat, & both traits devoted to it. The monk level does many things for me the question is it worth the delayed spell progression. I think it might be given the build is super MAD and forces me into a moderate wisdom score.
As for a trip discharging a touch spell it's not clear in the rules I'd expect table variation. Vine strike very clearly does not discharge on a trip though.
You will have trouble charging with that build, especially since you need a legal space to end your movement.
To charge you need to move at least 10 ft. directly towards your enemy, and end your movement as soon as you can make a melee attack again him (15 ft.) so you need 9 unoccupied squares in that exact location.
I just reread the squeezing rules and with the belt giving the compression ability I would be able to end my turn in a 10 foot spot without squeezing. I would also be able to charge thru a 10 foot path. Not ideal in an enclosed space but then again with dragon style giving me the ability to charge through difficult terrain and allies and have a 15 foot reach I would probably be able to charge more often than you think. In enclosed spaces I would also almost always be in reach for a full attack. With my abysmal dexterity in huge form combat reflexes is a trap. But if I really needed to be smaller a wild shaped burrowing earth elemental would get me underground and out of the way.
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I just reread the squeezing rules and with the belt giving the compression ability I would be able to end my turn in a 10 foot spot without squeezing. I would also be able to charge thru a 10 foot path. Not ideal in an enclosed space but then again with dragon style giving me the ability to charge through difficult terrain and allies and have a 15 foot reach I would probably be able to charge more often than you think. In enclosed spaces I would also almost always be in reach for a full attack. With my abysmal dexterity in huge form combat reflexes is a trap. But if I really needed to be smaller a wild shaped burrowing earth elemental would get me underground and out of the way.You will have trouble charging with that build, especially since you need a legal space to end your movement.
To charge you need to move at least 10 ft. directly towards your enemy, and end your movement as soon as you can make a melee attack again him (15 ft.) so you need 9 unoccupied squares in that exact location.
I have a slightly different opinion on when you can squeeze, the belt works for getting charging through corridors, but not for ending the movement in a legal place:
In some cases, you may have to squeeze into or through an area that isn’t as wide as the space you take up. You can squeeze through or into a space that is at least half as wide as your normal space. Each move into or through a narrow space counts as if it were 2 squares, and while squeezed in a narrow space, you take a –4 penalty on attack rolls and a –4 penalty to AC.When a Large creature (which normally takes up 4 squares) squeezes into a space that’s 1 square wide, the creature’s miniature figure occupies 2 squares, centered on the line between the 2 squares. For a bigger creature, center the creature likewise in the area it squeezes into.
A creature can squeeze past a creature while moving but it can’t end its movement in an occupied square.
To squeeze through or into a space less than half your space’s width, you must use the Escape Artist skill. You can’t attack while using Escape Artist to squeeze through or into a narrow space, you take a –4 penalty to AC, and you lose any Dexterity bonus to AC.
My reading of this forces on the aspect that the environment forces you to squeeze, you can't just try to reduce your space to allow for allies to stand, or not to end your movement in places already occupied by them.
Accidentally Ending Movement in an Illegal Space
Sometimes a character ends its movement while moving through a space where it’s not allowed to stop. When that happens, put your miniature in the last legal position you occupied, or the closest legal position, if there’s a legal position that’s closer.
Ending Your Movement
You can’t end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless.
Well, at least that is my interpretation how these rules interact. You might have to search for a clarification on that front.
If you grapple with your bite before you take your rake attacks, then your full-attack ends.
Why? Why would any monster with grab and more than one attack ever use it? I don't see anything in the grab ability stating that using it ends the creatures turn. It just gets the grappled condition. The grappled condition does not prevent taking a full attack. On the next round you must use the standard action to hold the grapple if you wish, but on the round you initiate the grapple via grab you can continue your full attack.
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Beyond the initial free action to touch, Frostbite now only discharges once a round (as a standard action).
If that was the intention that's not clear in the answer. The answer to me says that you can't "make a touch attack as part of the full attack to deliver a spell." Again, I understand if this isn't the intention, but that doesn't seem to preclude it from going off via an unarmed strike or a natural attack during a full attack.
Beyond the initial free action to touch, Frostbite now only discharges once a round (as a standard action).If that was the intention that's not clear in the answer. The answer to me says that you can't "make a touch attack as part of the full attack to deliver a spell." Again, I understand if this isn't the intention, but that doesn't seem to preclude it from going off via an unarmed strike or a natural attack during a full attack.
I agree, the touch attack takes a standard action, but I'd imagine that delivering it on a natural attack or US is still the action for that attack.
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From the Advance Player's guide FAQ:
Subdomains: Can druids, inquisitors, and other classes with access to domains take the subdomains listed in the cleric section of the APG?
Yes, as long as they follow the rules for subdomains on page 86. A character who does not worship a deity (such as some druids and paladins) may select any one subdomain appropriate to a domain available to his or her class.