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enough about dual curse having just one is bad enough. its not guna happen. besides oracle is a spell casting class not a melee class brawler.
Why not both? You're a 3/4 BAB class that can wear medium armore and can get martial weapon proficiencies through a few revelations from mysteries (Battle and Metal at least have that).
I mean, "clerics with longspears" were an institution in Pathfinder before the Warpriest was created (they may still be). The only things that really stand in the way of building any character for hand-to-hand combat are HD (d8 is fine), BAB (3/4 is fine), and proficiencies. Unlike something like the Inquisitor which gets a built in accuracy fix through Bane and Judgment, you have to use spells for this, but you've got a lot of spells.
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enough about dual curse having just one is bad enough. its not guna happen. besides oracle is a spell casting class not a melee class brawler.As the guy that tried to build a magus as my first character (in the beginner box ruleset), I can safely say the two are not mutually exclusive.
Seconded.
Especially with the right mysteries and Revelations, PossibleCabbage pointing out 2 good ones.
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My oracle of battle was a beast in melee.
Sometimes she even healed people after the fight was over.
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enough about dual curse having just one is bad enough. its not guna happen. besides oracle is a spell casting class not a melee class brawler.
Multiattack is something that many actual melee classes have to really work to get. Dual-Cursed human Oracles can get it at first level, if the Minor Lycanthropy counts (which, as written, it seems to). Then you start off with more attacks than a Monk at slightly less accuracy for two of them, and your less-than-stellar BAB stops being relevant.
Heck, it's possible to make melee Sorcerers, and they don't even have light armour.
Curses can be useful, and Dual-Cursed gets some cool stuff out of the deal.
I'm cooking up a concept for a Dual-Cursed (Accursed/Other with progression in whatever Other turns out to be) Spirit Guide Oracle VMCed with Sorcerer with the Accursed Bloodline (yes I know it sucks hush), with the Unlucky Halfling alternative ability and the Spellscar Mystery. The unluckiest person in existence, who's found ways of passing it off to others.
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I'm just going to mention that even the "drawback" for Legalistic could be incredibly useful- more useful than the advantages, even- especially in an investigation- or intrigue-heavy campaign.
"I swear I will not talk to that man's murderer."
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The promethean curse genuinely does nothing at all if you rest nightly. One point of Con damage does nothing, and you prevent the first point of ability damage you take each day.
It does lower your con by a single point before you can rest though.
So, assuming that 14 is 'normal'....it what, lowers you down to a 13? Not optimal, but not bad. Maybe you could waste point buy on getting a 15 starting? At least as a caster oracle?
Tongues has a cost "everybody in the party spends a single skill rank in linguistics so you can all speak Aklo or Celestial to each other in a fight.
Not even that. It is 'one other person has to spent a single skill rank in linguistics, and just acts as your interpreter'.
Remember- talking is a free action you can do out of turn. So there is no cost whatsoever to have an interpreter other than that one rank.
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Holy smokes, it actually lets you do that.
Whenever you break your word (either purposefully or unintentionally), you become sickened for 24 hours or until you meet your obligation, whichever comes first.
Yep. I know. It's awesome. Plus, if you're careful with your wording (which is really thematic for the curse, really), you can have your cake and eat it too, being able to sense when you break your word accidentally and then completing your clause.
"I will not speak to any being whose intentions are evil without punching them at least once".Since the curse says your sickened condition lasts for 24 hours or until you meet your obligation, you can talk to a creature (getting sickened if they're evil, giving you free unlimited-use non-concentration detect evil), and if they turn out to be evil, to ensure you aren't sickened, just punch them and you get better. Other examples of abusing this so-called "curse" include:
"I swear I shall not come within 15 feet of a mimic, and if I do, I shall attack it"
"I swear I will punch any creature who lies to me"
"I swear I will not be deceived by any creature lying to me"
"I swear I shall not pass by any door built with the intention of being hidden without first opening it"
"I swear I shall not go further than 20 feet from anything with a value-to-weight ratio better than a gold piece and has no claimed owner within civilized society while outside the constrains of a town, village, or other urban area populated by sentient beings without first touching it"
Really, the only really downside to this curse is that you need to be very careful not to accidentally promise anything you don't want to. Admittedly, that's keeping perfectly with the flavor of the curse, so....
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Holy smokes, it actually lets you do that.
Whenever you break your word (either purposefully or unintentionally), you become sickened for 24 hours or until you meet your obligation, whichever comes first.Yep. I know. It's awesome. Plus, if you're careful with your wording (which is really thematic for the curse, really), you can have your cake and eat it too, being able to sense when you break your word accidentally and then completing your clause.
"I will not speak to any being whose intentions are evil without punching them at least once".Since the curse says your sickened condition lasts for 24 hours or until you meet your obligation, you can talk to a creature (getting sickened if they're evil, giving you free unlimited-use non-concentration detect evil), and if they turn out to be evil, to ensure you aren't sickened, just punch them and you get better. Other examples of abusing this so-called "curse" include:
"I swear I shall not come within 15 feet of a mimic, and if I do, I shall attack it"
"I swear I will punch any creature who lies to me"
"I swear I will not be deceived by any creature lying to me"
"I swear I shall not pass by any door built with the intention of being hidden without first opening it"
"I swear I shall not go further than 20 feet from anything with a value-to-weight ratio better than a gold piece and has no claimed owner within civilized society while outside the constrains of a town, village, or other urban area populated by sentient beings without first touching it"
Really, the only really downside to this curse is that you need to be very careful not to accidentally promise anything you don't want to. Admittedly, that's keeping perfectly with the flavor of the curse, so....
I think I might be slightly in love. This is truly fantastic. Also works great for Paladins who took VMC Oracle, since you're also getting the ability to safeguard against losing class abilities.
"I swear I shall always strive to improve my commitment to my oath."
Not even in a sneaky way; while it'd definitely help you safeguard, it'd also be super in-character to make sure that if you ever turn evil, you'll be a pretty useless bad guy.
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[sarcasm]
Really, if anything, the best part about the Legalistic curse isn't the easily-abused "curse" it gives you, but rather that it gives you a reason to be super pedantic and abuse your easily-abused "curse." It's no longer metagaming to play as a by-the-book rules lawyer, it's you roleplaying your curse! Of course you'll go for RAW every time, your character is just so good that they understand the fundamental laws of the universe, and are really good at finding loopholes!
[/sarcasm]
Also:
"I swear that any time I seriously consider performing an act that would cause me to lose either my alignment or cause me to fall from being a paladin, I will give one of my allies a hug."
Ta-da! Free "check if I'm going to fall" and your allies get a free hug! Win-win all around.
Hmm.... Maybe I should start a thread for all the ways to abuse Legalistic...
EDIT: I did.
I think Legalistic is the only Oracle's Curse that is banned in our game. I don't think anything in this thread would make my group reconsider.
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Most oracle curses can be turned to a person's advantage, honestly, even before getting into the (often notably better) boons from first level on. It's why I tend to think of them as boons with side-effects. (Granted, if they're a poor fit for the person in question then they'd most definitely be far more hindrance than help)
I haven't yet had a chance to read the new batch of Oracle Curses that originated as milder versions of Corruptions, but most of the Oracle Curses that were around before that seem to have potential to be be on the whole beneficial(*), at least once you get to 5th level and in some cases even before that.
(*)Whether or not they deliver in this depends upon what role you are building your Oracle for, and some have wider use than others. Of the old Oracle Curses, the Clouded Vision Curse is the one I think might be an exception, that just doesn't deliver enough to make up for the disadvantage in any but a few corner cases.
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Whenever you break your word (either purposefully or unintentionally), you become sickened for 24 hours or until you meet your obligation, whichever comes first.
I think as your GM I'd rule that the effect of unintentionally breaking your word only applies if you know/believe you did it, or something like that.
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Whenever you break your word (either purposefully or unintentionally), you become sickened for 24 hours or until you meet your obligation, whichever comes first.I think as your GM I'd rule that the effect of unintentionally breaking your word only applies if you know/believe you did it, or something like that.
Yeah, as the examples above show this would be far too open to abuse otherwise.
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Holy smokes, it actually lets you do that.
Whenever you break your word (either purposefully or unintentionally), you become sickened for 24 hours or until you meet your obligation, whichever comes first.Yep. I know. It's awesome. Plus, if you're careful with your wording (which is really thematic for the curse, really), you can have your cake and eat it too, being able to sense when you break your word accidentally and then completing your clause.
"I will not speak to any being whose intentions are evil without punching them at least once".Since the curse says your sickened condition lasts for 24 hours or until you meet your obligation, you can talk to a creature (getting sickened if they're evil, giving you free unlimited-use non-concentration detect evil), and if they turn out to be evil, to ensure you aren't sickened, just punch them and you get better. Other examples of abusing this so-called "curse" include...
That is hilarious and awesome and if you tried it at my table I would make sure that fulfilling the obligation in cases like this can cause you quite a lot of trouble.
For example, you have a meeting with an important noble who has just learned that their spouse is cheating on them, and they are contemplating murderous vengeance - evil intent, though one that they may never follow up on and which is completely irrelevant to your current investigation. Feel like punching them?
I am cool with someone deciding they want a piece of information badly enough to be sickened for 24 hours after receiving it. But try to use it as a no-consequence "detect anything" and I will find a way to add consequences.
Because that's what happens when you try to get the best of an Infernal contract...
The promethean curse genuinely does nothing at all if you rest nightly. One point of Con damage does nothing, and you prevent the first point of ability damage you take each day.It does lower your con by a single point before you can rest though.
So, assuming that 14 is 'normal'....it what, lowers you down to a 13? Not optimal, but not bad. Maybe you could waste point buy on getting a 15 starting? At least as a caster oracle?
You have to take 2 ability damage in single ability for it to have any effect and it is treated as a penalty, rather than lowering of the score.
You have to take 2 ability damage in single ability for it to have any effect and it is treated as a penalty, rather than lowering of the score.The promethean curse genuinely does nothing at all if you rest nightly. One point of Con damage does nothing, and you prevent the first point of ability damage you take each day.It does lower your con by a single point before you can rest though.
So, assuming that 14 is 'normal'....it what, lowers you down to a 13? Not optimal, but not bad. Maybe you could waste point buy on getting a 15 starting? At least as a caster oracle?
Wait, what? Seriously?
Then this is basically just 'you are ever so slightly more vulnerable to con damage. Add +1 to your total amount of con damage at all times'.
If you don't meet any poisons or some undead-ish stuff, I am pretty sure that you would never even notice that curse.
Yep, they changed that from 3.5, where it was treated as real lowering of the score (like drain still is). That curse is really benign.
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Holy smokes, it actually lets you do that.
Whenever you break your word (either purposefully or unintentionally), you become sickened for 24 hours or until you meet your obligation, whichever comes first.Yep. I know. It's awesome. Plus, if you're careful with your wording (which is really thematic for the curse, really), you can have your cake and eat it too, being able to sense when you break your word accidentally and then completing your clause.
"I will not speak to any being whose intentions are evil without punching them at least once".Since the curse says your sickened condition lasts for 24 hours or until you meet your obligation, you can talk to a creature (getting sickened if they're evil, giving you free unlimited-use non-concentration detect evil), and if they turn out to be evil, to ensure you aren't sickened, just punch them and you get better. Other examples of abusing this so-called "curse" include...
That is hilarious and awesome and if you tried it at my table I would make sure that fulfilling the obligation in cases like this can cause you quite a lot of trouble.
For example, you have a meeting with an important noble who has just learned that their spouse is cheating on them, and they are contemplating murderous vengeance - evil intent, though one that they may never follow up on and which is completely irrelevant to your current investigation. Feel like punching them?
I am cool with someone deciding they want a piece of information badly enough to be sickened for 24 hours after receiving it. But try to use it as a no-consequence "detect anything" and I will find a way to add consequences.
Because that's what happens when you try to get the best of an Infernal contract...
I'd say that you should definitely be as clever as your players are being, but leave them an out if they're smart enough to see it. You should totally be able to John Constantine your way out of an Infernal Contract, but it sure as Hell shouldn't be easy.
I'd say that you should definitely be as clever as your players are being, but leave them an out if they're smart enough to see it. You should totally be able to John Constantine your way out of an Infernal Contract, but it sure as Hell shouldn't be easy.Holy smokes, it actually lets you do that.
Whenever you break your word (either purposefully or unintentionally), you become sickened for 24 hours or until you meet your obligation, whichever comes first.Yep. I know. It's awesome. Plus, if you're careful with your wording (which is really thematic for the curse, really), you can have your cake and eat it too, being able to sense when you break your word accidentally and then completing your clause.
"I will not speak to any being whose intentions are evil without punching them at least once".Since the curse says your sickened condition lasts for 24 hours or until you meet your obligation, you can talk to a creature (getting sickened if they're evil, giving you free unlimited-use non-concentration detect evil), and if they turn out to be evil, to ensure you aren't sickened, just punch them and you get better. Other examples of abusing this so-called "curse" include...
That is hilarious and awesome and if you tried it at my table I would make sure that fulfilling the obligation in cases like this can cause you quite a lot of trouble.
For example, you have a meeting with an important noble who has just learned that their spouse is cheating on them, and they are contemplating murderous vengeance - evil intent, though one that they may never follow up on and which is completely irrelevant to your current investigation. Feel like punching them?
I am cool with someone deciding they want a piece of information badly enough to be sickened for 24 hours after receiving it. But try to use it as a no-consequence "detect anything" and I will find a way to add consequences.
Because that's what happens when you try to get the best of an Infernal contract...
Really, it could be argued that that is exactly the intent of the curse. Anyone clever enough to outsmart Hell deserves power.
Also, the oath never specified ho hard you would punch them. Just walk over them and lightly tap them with your fist. You might get an odd stare, but it does satisfy the obligation of the oath.
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Both Lich and Vampirism curses make you heal from negative energy and take damage from positive.
Since you can cast either cure on inflict spells yourself, you will always have self healing.
Stacking them for dual-cursed is an exercise in simplicity.
My Black-blooded Oracle of Bones feels less special now. Especially considering he believes he was cursed by Pharasma to be closer to the Undead, so that he could then destroy them. He's 10th level in PFS, and half his revelations come from the Black-blooded list, so I won't be retraining out of the archetype/curse.
I bet the Vampire-cursed don't get to bleed on their enemies to hurt them! So take that!
The clouded vision curse is crippling. Anything outside of your vision range will be effectly invisible, which means you have no way to defend yourself or attack them. Granted, you can just drop an obscuring mist every fight to level the playing field, but your allies may not appreciate that.
Haunted isn't too bad if you're smart about it.
If you play a Gnome it can be not too bad. But Catatonic seems really bad.
catatonic is not worth it, it's far too crippling
Actually, yes it is, and I won't be buying the source book.
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Haunted can be fun in an emergency if you find yourself surrounded and have a bag full of alchemical weapons to empty out
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Oh, I never thought of that. How about caltrops? That could also work.
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Haunted can be fun in an emergency if you find yourself surrounded and have a bag full of alchemical weapons to empty outThat is fantastic. Would they still splash/explode though?
Like Darigaaz said. Fun.
^This might actually work if you had something pyrophoric (such a thing exists in Pathfinder but I forgot the name) AND Fire Immunity (or at least GOOD Fire Resistance -- which conveniently certain Oracle Revelations offer, so that you don't have to risk getting whapped upside the head while trying to cast a spell).
Less impressive but also less dangerous to the user, Caltrops should work fine, as long as you are prepared to be stuck in one place or get over them with a standing broad jump or flight (or some kind of foot protection that lets you ignore them).
Haunted can be fun in an emergency if you find yourself surrounded and have a bag full of alchemical weapons to empty outThat is fantastic. Would they still splash/explode though?
Yup, but since they're all landing 10ft away from you and only have a 5' splash radius, well~
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Yup, but since they're all landing 10ft away from you and only have a 5' splash radius, well~Haunted can be fun in an emergency if you find yourself surrounded and have a bag full of alchemical weapons to empty outThat is fantastic. Would they still splash/explode though?
No, I mean would they splash and hurt your enemies? I think you have to toss it or set it alight for most of them.
If you emptied a bag of several vials of Alchemist's Fire and then hit one of the now-ten-feet-away-in-a-circle bags with a Scorching Ray though...
the clouded vision one is countered by blind fight and a blindfold.
rely on blind sense and blind sight
The blind oracle in one of my games fell off of a ship in the middle of the ocean (without anyone noticing).
"Okay, you see water for 30' in every direction. What do you do?"