(PFS) Weird interaction: bard evangalist of Irori

[VampByDay]

Have a weird question for a character I am considering. First off, this will be a PFS character, so I can't rely on house rules.

So, bard character so I can try knowledge checks untrained from the bardic knowledge class feature.

Irori diefic obedience: +4 sacred or profane bonus (choose if you are neutral) to knowledge checks.

Level 5 evangalist: +4 sacred or profane bonus to all untrained skill checks.

Could I make a neutral bard -> evangalist of Irori with +8 from those two class features? +4 sacred (knowledge skills) and +4 profane (untrained skills) on all untrained knowledge skills?

Am I reading that right?

Evangalist: http://archivesofnethys.com/PrestigeClassesDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Evangelist

Irori: http://archivesofnethys.com/DeityDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Irori

[Chess Pwn]

yes.

[dwayne germaine]

Can you choose to take sacred bonuses from your Diefic obedience to your god and profane bonuses from your Evangelist PrC worshipping the same god?

I don't have my books here and it might be allowable RAW, but I find it somewhat counter-intuitive that the same god would grant you both types of bonuses. Certainly in my own games I would require a character to select one type of bonus from their god when they took the Diefic Obediance and I would rule that they get the same type of bonus when they took the PrC. That might be houseruleing, but I would argue that it seems like RAI to me.

[James Risner]

The same god would not provide sacred and profane. If the god is good, sacred. Evil, profane. Neutral, pick one.

[Firebug]

James Risner wrote:

The same god would not provide sacred and profane. If the god is good, sacred. Evil, profane. Neutral, pick one.

And that is listed... where?

I mean, we have the exact opposite because we are given the choice to choose. If you have 2 Neutral Clerics of a Neutral Deity, you are saying that the first cleric determines whether the second cleric is getting a profane or a sacred bonus. You don't actually make a choice with your argument, because presumably, there was already some servant who already made the choice for you.

Is the rule text you are looking for in Channel Energy? It doesn't say anything about profane or sacred bonuses, merely whether they channel positive or negative.

In bonus types, it certainly lists Sacred as being a different bonus from Profane, and neither type says they do not stack with each other. So since they are different typed bonuses, they stack.

[Jurassic Pratt]

You totally can. Both abilities allow a neutral worshipper of a neutral god to chose if the bonus is sacred or profane. Your choice in one in no way affects the other.

[Plausible Pseudonym]

There a FAQ that sacred and profane bonuses don't stack with each other, so they are purely flavor distinctions now with no mechanical import. It's a top 5 bad FAQ.

[KingOfAnything]

Inner Sea Gods, pg 196 wrote:

Whenever an ability [of the prestige class] refers to a "sacred or profane bonus," the type matches that of the character's bonus from performing his obedience.

The bonuses must be of the same type anyway.

[Jurassic Pratt]

KingOfAnything wrote:

Inner Sea Gods, pg 196 wrote:

Whenever an ability [of the prestige class] refers to a "sacred or profane bonus," the type matches that of the character's bonus from performing his obedience.

The bonuses must be of the same type anyway.

Appears I was wrong, it won't work for the reason KingOfAnything stated above.

[Chess Pwn]

didn't know about that line. you're out of luck

[dwayne germaine]

Plausible Pseudonym wrote:

It's a top 5 totally sensible FAQ.

Fixed that for you

[Ellioti]

Neutral gods and Irori especially are all about balance. He might very well approve of you gaining both a sacred and a profane bonus just to keep everything in balance.

[James Risner]

dwayne germaine wrote:

Plausible Pseudonym wrote:

It's a top 5 totally sensible FAQ.

Fixed that for you

+1

Chess Pwn wrote:

didn't know about that line. you're out of luck

Me either, but since it's on the top 5 sensible list, it makes sense. It just doesn't make sense that one should gain both a sacred and profane bonus.

[VampByDay]

Plausible Pseudonym wrote:

There a FAQ that sacred and profane bonuses don't stack with each other, so they are purely flavor distinctions now with no mechanical import. It's a top 5 bad FAQ.

Link?

[Plausible Pseudonym]

It's apparently not a FAQ. Maybe I saw a related developer comment, I'm not sure why I'm so convinced it's a (bad) rule.

I agree that you shouldn't receive a profane and sacred bonus from the same deific source, but if a good deity's obedience gave you a sacred bonus to an attribute score and you later obtained (or had inflicted on you) a Succubus' profane gift to the same ability score I think those should RAW stack.

[SheepishEidolon]

Plausible Pseudonym wrote:

I agree that you shouldn't receive a profane and sacred bonus from the same deific source

Hmm, I would find it fitting for Nethys - he is both dualistic and insane enough.

[dwayne germaine]

Ok, so it turns out the rule is right in the Inner Sea Gods book.

Page 196 under Prestige Classes

Inner Sea Gods wrote:

Whenever an ability refers to "sacred or profane bonus", the type matches that of the character's bonus from performing his obediance.

So it doesn't matter if they can stack or not, you have to take the same type of bonus from the Prestige class as you did from the obediance.

[James Risner]

So that means of the PC has an obedience all their sacred and profane from any spell, ability, or source must match?

Makes me think that was one of their "restate the general rule" and someone forgot there is no general rule forbidding you from having different sacred and profane. In other words, an unwritten rule.

[KingOfAnything]

That section is specifically about the prestige class abilities.

[Hubaris]

That section has nothing to do with getting Profane bonuses from a source such as a Succubus' Profane Gift, solely regarding the Prestige Classes and Obedience boons from the Inner Sea God's Book.

Since its for PFS about Irori's interaction, its clear cut though.