As many as they have spell slots for and can cast before the rounds/level duration wears off.
Note that moving a spiritual ally requires your swift action. So you could have more than one out at a time, and they attack the foes you designate, but if they need to be moved you only get to move one per round.
Can't you sacrifice your move action and standard action for swift actions? Then you could potentially move three, but you could do nothing else.
By RAW there's no general rule that allows you to substitute any particular action for a 'shorter' action. Using a standard action to take a move action is a specific exception.
The limitation of swift actions is a balancing mechanic; if you start allowing trade-offs of longer actions for swifts then you wind up with some bizarre and unbalanced situations (for example, a caster who can toss out 3 spells per round - 1 with her normal swift, 1 with her move action as a swift, and 1 with her standard action).
Well, I have not done any summoner style builds, so my maths might be messed up, but since summon monster and such typically has rounds/level (lets ignore metamagic...since I know little about it), you would usually be able to cast the spell 20 times at level 20 before they start disappearing.
If you are playing the summoner class, you also have summon monster as an SLA that has minutes per level (let's ignore the gate spell they can use their SLA as at level 19, since it is not traditional summoning, and messes up the maths further). So assuming the master summoner archetype (more SLA), you get 5+CHA castings, and then you can always just learn and use Summon spells normally as well, so you can add that ontop of the earlier 20. You can also get extra summon SLAs through a feat that can be take up to 4 times. So 29+CHA would be how many castings you could churn out at once before things started to disappear.
But how many creatures is that? Well, if you are summoning creatures from a list that is 2+ levels lower than the summon spell you are using, you get 1d4 creatures. Add in superior summoning for a +1 each time, and you get a max of 5/spell. So I suppose the maximum would be 145+(5xCHA). Or whenever your GM smacks you in the head for pulling out a crate of minis. Seriously, I am fairly sure that those numbers could technically be considered a swarm by that point. Anyway, this little army would be composed of the following kinds of summons (remember, we have to go with the list 2 levels lower): 5 summon m 4, 5 summon m 3, 6 summon m 2, and 4 summon m 1, as well as 9+CHA from summon m 7.
And after, you can add other summoning/calling spells, like Mount, Planar Ally, Planar Binding, Simulacrum, ...
You can have an army with you.
And after, you can add other summoning/calling spells, like Mount, Planar Ally, Planar Binding, Simulacrum, ...
You can have an army with you.
Yeah, but the greatest threat to this army would be falling rocks....even if it is made up entirely out of earth elementals.
Oh, and how about this: eldritch heritage, to get a familiar, who uses wands of summon monster and such. Obviously you would never use this so much as a battle tactic, due to the cost and ineffectiveness (might be useful just to give every body flank buddies, but beyond that?). I am mostly throwing this out since the tactic we are talking about here is throwing minis at the GM until he rolls up into a fetal position.
A master summoner can use his SLA summon monster ability 5+ Cha mod per day, and they last 1min/level. He can use all of them at once if he so chooses, if his eidolon isn't out.
Plus any he casts from his spells/wand/staff.
Assuming 40 round duration limit (extend rods), and a staff or two to burn through after his spells are eaten up...
So… level 20, maybe a high Cha 20+5+5+6 of 36 (+13 mod). He could have... 18d4+18 monsters out plus 20d4+40, plus 20d4+20.
For a grand total of 58d4+78 dudes... an average of 223.
Of that,
38d4+38 are SM 7 critters (avg 133)
7d4+14 are SM6 critters (avg 31.5)
8d4+16 are SM5 critters (avg 36)
5d4+10 are SM3 critters (avg 22.5)
So… overwhelming force. But, he’d be nearly spent. Having burned through all of his 6th, 5th level spells, most of his 4th and all his SLA summons, two staves, and like 7 rods of extend spell.
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Can't you sacrifice your move action and standard action for swift actions? Then you could potentially move three, but you could do nothing else.By RAW there's no general rule that allows you to substitute any particular action for a 'shorter' action. Using a standard action to take a move action is a specific exception.
The limitation of swift actions is a balancing mechanic; if you start allowing trade-offs of longer actions for swifts then you wind up with some bizarre and unbalanced situations (for example, a caster who can toss out 3 spells per round - 1 with her normal swift, 1 with her move action as a swift, and 1 with her standard action).
I don't get this. Even when Quicken Spell was a free action, it specifically said it is a one spell per round maximum deal. And still, it is used as an example of this EVERY SINGLE TIME this comes up.
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I don't get this. Even when Quicken Spell was a free action, it specifically said it is a one spell per round maximum deal. And still, it is used as an example of this EVERY SINGLE TIME this comes up.Can't you sacrifice your move action and standard action for swift actions? Then you could potentially move three, but you could do nothing else.By RAW there's no general rule that allows you to substitute any particular action for a 'shorter' action. Using a standard action to take a move action is a specific exception.
The limitation of swift actions is a balancing mechanic; if you start allowing trade-offs of longer actions for swifts then you wind up with some bizarre and unbalanced situations (for example, a caster who can toss out 3 spells per round - 1 with her normal swift, 1 with her move action as a swift, and 1 with her standard action).
On the one hand, quicken spell does specifically say "one per round". On the other, regardless of whether you were going here or not, I'll say that no, you cannot substitute a swift action for another type of action. Note that under "swift action" in chapter 8 it says "You can, however, perform only one single swift action per turn, regardless of what other actions you take." (emphasis mine) Under Move Action on page 181, it explicitely says "You can take a move action in place of a standard action." Other rule systems allow move and standard to swift actions, Pathfinder does not.
To get all the way back to the original poster's question however (a novel concept :) ), there is no limit to the number of creatures you can have summoned that I know of, outside of your spells per day or spell like abilities per day, etc. That said, as others have mentioned, you may be limited to the number of summoned monsters you can give orders to in a round, based on the action(s) required to give orders to them. To my knowledge, Paizo has not published a feat or other ability that allows you to say something akin to "EVERYONE GET THE DEMON!" causing all summoned monsters from all spells to respond to a single order, though I wouldn't be completely surprised by one.
Well, if you are summoning creatures from a list that is 2+ levels lower than the summon spell you are using, you get 1d4 creatures.It's 1d4+1, 1d4+2 with Superior Summoning.
Whoops. Forgot that. I said my maths were probably bad.
A master summoner can use his SLA summon monster ability 5+ Cha mod per day, and they last 1min/level. He can use all of them at once if he so chooses, if his eidolon isn't out.
Plus any he casts from his spells/wand/staff.
Assuming 40 round duration limit (extend rods), and a staff or two to burn through after his spells are eaten up...
So… level 20, maybe a high Cha 20+5+5+6 of 36 (+13 mod). He could have... 18d4+18 monsters out plus 20d4+40, plus 20d4+20.
For a grand total of 58d4+78 dudes... an average of 223.
Of that,
38d4+38 are SM 7 critters (avg 133)
7d4+14 are SM6 critters (avg 31.5)
8d4+16 are SM5 critters (avg 36)
5d4+10 are SM3 critters (avg 22.5)So… overwhelming force. But, he’d be nearly spent. Having burned through all of his 6th, 5th level spells, most of his 4th and all his SLA summons, two staves, and like 7 rods of extend spell.
Hmm... let's assume that the person had a ton of luck with their summoning rolls, since we are talking about the 'maximum' number they can control here. So 58d4+78 would be....310. And yes, this is the very definition of Nova. This is supernova. This is the kind of thing that I can only imagine that a GM would allow for a last stand against a near unstoppable, charging force, where your character does not expect to survive (or leave enough behind to even get brought back to life).
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There is no limit to the number of summoning spells a caster can cast other than as limited by spell slots and/or other class abilities, as has been indicated by others. Most summoned creatures do not require and commands to control them, unless doing something other than attacking foes.
Spiritual ally is not a summoning spell at all. Summoning spells have their own set of general rules, which to not apply to evocation spells, such as spiritual ally or spiritual weapon. There is no limit inherent to the spell regarding how many of these spells can be active at one time. Unlike summons, this spell does, however, require an action to move. This means that the tactical situation may influence how useful multiple castings are.
The rules basis for all of this is covered in the Magic chapter, under the heading Combing Magical Effects. In summary, spells don't interfere with each other unless as specified. None of the exceptions apply to OP's questions.
This all said, as a matter of procedure, not rule, a GM might choose to limit how many summoned creatures, spiritual allies, etc. might be allowed to be active at a given time. Reasons for this might include pace of play, player rules familiarity, etc. such procedural limitations are a matter of gaming style, not rules.
This all said, as a matter of procedure, not rule, a GM might choose to limit how many summoned creatures, spiritual allies, etc. might be allowed to be active at a given time. Reasons for this might include pace of play, player rules familiarity, etc. such procedural limitations are a matter of gaming style, not rules.
...and how many squares there are on the map. Remember, those hundreds of summoned creatures will almost all at least be small sized, so they each take up a square.
I've sometimes seen groups limit Summon Monster to one active spell at a time. Even more often players have imposed this sort of limit on themselves as a matter of etiquette. As an aside, it might be worth noting that Spiritual Weapon and Ally use your Wisdom bonus rather than your Charisma bonus even if you're an Oracle. I'm not sure if anybody knows why...
I don't get this. Even when Quicken Spell was a free action, it specifically said it is a one spell per round maximum deal. And still, it is used as an example of this EVERY SINGLE TIME this comes up.Can't you sacrifice your move action and standard action for swift actions? Then you could potentially move three, but you could do nothing else.By RAW there's no general rule that allows you to substitute any particular action for a 'shorter' action. Using a standard action to take a move action is a specific exception.
The limitation of swift actions is a balancing mechanic; if you start allowing trade-offs of longer actions for swifts then you wind up with some bizarre and unbalanced situations (for example, a caster who can toss out 3 spells per round - 1 with her normal swift, 1 with her move action as a swift, and 1 with her standard action).
You're right - it is an invalid example. So ignore it, and there's still good reason why allowing trade-offs for swift actions to be imbalancing. There are a number of classes that have potent abilities tied to a swift action for the specific purpose of limiting those actions. A Paladin could use Lay on Hands on himself 3 times in a single round; a Magus could activate numerous Arcane Point-based abilities (like activating Accurate Strike to resolve against Touch AC and then also using Arcane Accuracy to grant himself his INT bonus to his attack).
As to the original post, I think the question's been answered pretty thoroughly already: By RAW there's no limit to the number of summoned creatures you can control except in specific circumstances (like necromancers) where the ability puts a cap on it. The ability itself may limit to the number of creatures you can effectively command in a turn, like in the case of Spiritual Ally, where the Oracle could only command one ally to move each round.
Spiritual Weapon and Ally use your Wisdom bonus rather than your Charisma bonus even if you're an Oracle. I'm not sure if anybody knows why...
The rationale the designers gave was that changing the text would be more of an errata than an FAQ and so they weren't going to consider it RAW. Personally, I think given some of the other FAQ rulings that such a change isn't out of line, and at my table (non-PFS) I assume that a class's features are always based on one of the class's key abilities.
Granted, a summoner can only have one Spell-like ability of Summon Monster active at a time. This "only" means that if they selected the actual spell at each level, they can cast as many times as they have spell slots, plus one SLA summon monster active (with the ability to refresh the SLA if the current "wave" is dismissed or destroyed).
Druids can swap out their spells for summon nature's ally, making them strong instant army makers.
It can be daunting when one player does this, and insane if the whole party has similar potential. (I forsee dimensional anchor being called "GM sanity device" if the whole party were summon-happy mages).
Granted, a summoner can only have one Spell-like ability of Summon Monster active at a time. This "only" means that if they selected the actual spell at each level, they can cast as many times as they have spell slots, plus one SLA summon monster active (with the ability to refresh the SLA if the current "wave" is dismissed or destroyed).
That is another reason why everyone has been going with the master summoner archetype. They can spam their SLA's until they run dry, whether or not a previous casting is still in effect.
Anyway, the Spiritual Weapon and Ally thing is because those spells were written when 'divine caster' meant 'wisdom as the castings stat'. I can understand why people might houserule it though, since similar arcane spells allow both intellect and charisma.
The only limits are:
1. The actions taken to control the summons. Though controlling many summons is a free action, a DM may reasonably rule: hey, you've got 5 different guys there. You need to give them similar instructions rather than detailed, specific ones.
2. Etiquette. As a previous poster stated, etiquette matters. Time spent on you is less time spent on everyone else and with 5+ creatures, it can quickly bog down a table. That isn't fun. There are different approaches:
- Let other team members control some of the monsters, so they get to play as well.
- Limit your number of summons. Summon fewer creatures at a time.
- Always have your summons' stats ready and at-hand.
3. In some cases, nature. Animals will require use of the Handle Animal skill for doing things that would go against their nature, and this can require different sorts of actions. Summoning certain types of creatures can also lead to issues if summoned in the wrong situation. For example, that demon may save the child, but it doesn't mean it might not try to cause some minor havoc on the way.
Of course, the last depends on how your DM roleplays, also.