Contributor
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Just starting to prep this one myself, and yes, it looks interesting (and cool).
As for your question, the Bestiary seems to indicate that individual elementals can look pretty much however they want to look, as exemplified in this quote from the water elemental entry: "As with other elementals, all water elementals have their own unique shapes and appearances."
So, my take was that Elsharon just chose to express and self-identify as something like a humanoid woman, just as Iyasset chose to express and self-identify as something like an eighties post-punk singer. I don't know whether this is by design (or intent), but this interpretation actually follows through with the characterization of the scenario's third major NPC and her literally self-transformative self-image.
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What do we do if the party won't choose a side?
I would say they leave the site and do not achieve the primary prestige point. If they won't choose a side, they will never gain an audience with one of the tribe's leaders who has the information about Jamila's whereabouts and her connection to the Concordance of Elements. And that's the primary success condition.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Tampere
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What do we do if the party won't choose a side?I would say they leave the site and do not achieve the primary prestige point. If they won't choose a side, they will never gain an audience with one of the tribe's leaders who has the information about Jamila's whereabouts and her connection to the Concordance of Elements. And that's the primary success condition.
I'm running this in 45 minutes and I can absolutely already say that at least one of my players will insist on trying to negotiate a peace treaty between the two tribes so they can get on the good sides of both. Probably more than one. I've had players express frustration over "pick a side" scenarios before and I doubt this one will be any different.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Tampere
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The deciding element ended up being that I couldn't really find anything the multi-elemental alliance could offer the party over the air elemental tribe. As Pathfinders, they of course wanted to delve into some ancient ruins and sided with the group who wanted to dig them up, consequences of releasing ancient unknown powers be damned.
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Also, no one gets to say this scenario is impossible to succeed at without a skill monkey. My group was a bunch of 7 Int idiots with a few more average types. They had Knowledge Nature and Linguistics, which got them just enough that the Scarab Sage barbarian was able to do the research things he needed to do to get full prestige and faction boon, even if he didn't understand the importance of everything he was doing.
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I'm running this in 45 minutes and I can absolutely already say that at least one of my players will insist on trying to negotiate a peace treaty between the two tribes so they can get on the good sides of both. Probably more than one. I've had players express frustration over "pick a side" scenarios before and I doubt this one will be any different.What do we do if the party won't choose a side?I would say they leave the site and do not achieve the primary prestige point. If they won't choose a side, they will never gain an audience with one of the tribe's leaders who has the information about Jamila's whereabouts and her connection to the Concordance of Elements. And that's the primary success condition.
My players usually try to kill them all and spectacularly fail their success conditions.
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Upon reading the scenario blurb, I was initially really excited about this scenario. I enjoy seeing previously introduced characters returning. It gives the campaign more of a real-world feel. After reading through it and prepping, my excitement waned.
Prepping this one, it reminds me a lot of
I, too, have many of the same questions as aboyd. A poorly-worded skill check/hazard interaction that isn't fully flushed out. In previous scenarios, where a bonus is to be given out from a sufficiently high skill-check, it is called out under the relevant knowledge DC. Strange, unique swim rules specially designed for the scenario, where the normal rules should have been used, with circumstance bonuses given out. An altered sleep-aura of Confusion which is infinitely more dangerous than Sleep, though their slam attack still causes Sleep (especially since the PCs elemental ally is likely to be friendly enough to rouse them, as explained in the scenario. The elemental remains on the fringes of the area to observe, so could potentially be a valid target for "Attack Nearest". The emissary is not immune to Confusion, so if they go to rouse a PC who happens to be in the Confusion aura..... that could end real badly. What if the fight moves their way and are trapped in the aura of Confusion? A 20' aura is huge especially considering the extremely tight quarters for this encounter.
I'm going to go even a bit further here. Both the elemental emissaries have knowledge planes, so they would know the basics of humanoids. In the Meeting section, both elementals are given ignorant characteristics that they would know, especially living on Golarion and having a long association with Osirion where most humanoids are human: Elsharon's not knowing that destabilized grounds would have an effect on humanoids (where a DC 11 would be enough to know that the movement abilities of most humanoids are severely hampered by poor terrain); Iyasset's supposition that creatures trapped on the lower ledge would simply Fly up to talk (again, pretty much the same DC to know that most humanoids do not have the innate ability to fly).
Like many new scenarios that attempt to not railroad players by providing choices and different paths (since there were complaints). It's PFS play, you need to finish in 4 to 4.5 hours, so there will be railroading), it does a lackluster job of doing so and again, further complicates prep (for no consequence). Granted, this is not the same amount of detailed prep required as full-on, totally separate encounters (I'm looking at you, 7-25 Orders from the Gate. Great scenario with check boxes for future development and possible consequences of choice), it still makes prep more difficult, and makes the choice of allied-party a literal coin-toss. High-road or low-road. I'm running it in a few days, and can see that choice going that way. To top it all off, there are no check-boxes to report which side you chose. So it truly is irrelevant which path or side you choose. The addition of different emissaries is unnecessary and simply pads word count and serves no purpose.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32
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I have some reservations about this scenario; I tend to think my players will either refuse to side with one of the two tribes, or they will insist on trying to press forward and catch Jamila, even if they don't strictly know where she's going. I'll report back after I run it.
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Contributor
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I played this and I'm now prepping it, and wow does it have some gaps. I need help/advice with all this stuff:
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- Page 6, 7: Meeting Elsharon or Iyasset. In both meetings, there is a hazard. The hazard says that if you make a Survival check, you jumped out of the way. All other PCs must make a reflex save. However, it then immediately takes back what was just written and says those that made the survival check must make the saving throw anyway, but they get a +4. So, what was the actual intention here? Does the survival check actually move you out of the way and other PCs make a save, or is it intended that all PCs make the save?
I think I figured this one out. Right under the first box text on Page 6, there is a DC 15 Survival check to notice that the path is dangerous. Call it "Survival Check 1."
When they reach the hazard, they make a Survival or Perception check to jump out of the way ("Survival Check 2"). If they succeed at Survival Check 2, they do not have to make the Reflex save at all. If they failed Survival Check 2, but they passed Survival Check 1, then they make the Reflex save with a +4 bonus.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Maryland—Hagerstown
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Page 20, column 2, treasure. Does this mean that we cross out 5 of the 6 items, leaving only the 1 that the PC selects right then & there? Or do we only cross out 3 items (the 3 items that would have been awarded by the other side), and let the player decide what to buy later?
This is just my interpretation on this..if I am wrong, it will not be the first time.
I think you get the first item either way.
The other two items are what needs to be decided on. The sentence says, "the Goanron also offer the PCs a choice between item #1 and item #2". Then the next sentence which I believe is referring to the previous sentence only is, "Whichever of these items the PCs chose as a group, each PC gains access to her preferred item on her Chronicle sheet."
And as always the other sides rewards are automatically scratched off, since they never meet them.
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Venture-Agent, Nebraska—Omaha
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Every PC gets access to a ring. In subtier 4-5, each PC can choose between the two items they could gain access to.
"Whichever of these items the PCs chose as a group, each PC gains access to her preferred item on her Chronicle sheet."
The text is correct as it is. Each PC gains access to his or her preferred item, which may be different from the preferred item of another member of the party.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Maryland—Hagerstown
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Every PC gets access to a ring. In subtier 4-5, each PC can choose between the two items they could gain access to.
"Whichever of these items the PCs chose as a group, each PC gains access to her preferred item on her Chronicle sheet."The text is correct as it is. Each PC gains access to his or her preferred item, which may be different from the preferred item of another member of the party.
If that is the case, what is the point in having them choose an item as a group, if they get access to what ever they wan in the end? Just does not make since to me.
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The key to stopping this going off the rails is to have the Venture Captain at the beginning emphasize that he not sending the group to arrest Jamila or to recover the items, but merely to find out where she has gone. I rationalized this as Jamila maybe having unknown powers or allies, and the VC needs to think carefully about his next move, but wants to locate her before the trail goes cold.
Then, have their elemental emmisary mention the fact that the elemental chieftain knows where Jamila is, and who she is working with. This gives the party the hook they need to submit to going through the dungeon, even if they are reluctant to be hailed as prophets, or to get involved in the elemental clan feuds.
A previous poster mentioned that there is nothing that the Earth/Water/Fire elementals can offer to match the Air Elementals wanting to 'uncover secrets'. This is a problem, so I tried to play up the idea of the air elementals being a 'rogue splinter group' - if even fire and water elementals can work together in one clan, why are the air elementals off on their own, pursuing their own agenda? Add to this the homicidal nature of air elementals dislike of the oread sorceror, and you can balance the two out - make it clear to the players that they are in the middle of something larger here, without there necessarily being a 'good' side and a 'bad' side.
If the group are reluctant to pick a side, remind them that they are not really committing to anything - they know they are not prophets, they can't speak for the Pathfinder Society, and the elemental chieftain has the information they need. They get the info, and maybe open up lines of communication between the elementals and the Society, but anything else is above their paygrade.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Maryland—Hagerstown
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I will be running this in two weeks and while reading it over the Faction Notes mention the Scarab Sages boon being called Binding Scholar, but on the chronicle sheet it is call Strength of the Scorpion Coast, is it still the correct boon on the Chronicle?
I noticed that as well and just went with it. Just a typo that slipped through the cracks.
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I have read through the scenario and the Chronicle sheet boon (Strength of the Scorpion Coast) is suppose to be the Binding Scholar boon. If the PC's meet the condition to obtain the boon just award them with the boon. This one one had a few auto-correct errors like identify instead of identity, etc etc. I thought it was a good prologue to a start this 3 parter.
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I would say this is bitter and ongoing enmity... They will throw insults back and forward and not back down until a side is chosen - throwing themselves at the other if it is left to escalate.
With knowledge checks and the back story you should be able to have them pick sides or if they stand aside have the combat move away (or shouts from the elementals - especially the guide) as they lose the chance to side with either force and not get access to a leader...
For me the Air elemental guided them through and as the Earth elemental heard them sounding like they were agreeing with going with the Air elemental he became 'enraged and attacked out' forcing them to pick a side..
I was thinking just using post-its to handle the elevation and direction, but how did others do it?
Back when these were offered for sale, I bought multiple units of the Combat Tiers -- enough to give each player their own Combat Tier with a landing every 10 feet. So we just actually moved in 3D space. My friend said it looked a lot like that 3D chess game that they play on Big Bang Theory.
Low-tech is to also draw out a side view on the battle map, and allow players to show which elevation their mini is at.
There are also the Elevation Indicators and the good news is that they are still being manufactured.
What is it with the Sothis lodge? This is the 3rd scenario I can think of where they've been robbed.
Typical PF lodge. ;) Look what happens at Heidmarch manor!
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Venture-Agent, Nebraska—Lincoln
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I ran this last week, kind of at last minute as the GM who had signed up to run it at my lodge has a family emergency. I screwed up a lot because I had less than 24 hours to prep it. We were high-tier, with a paladin, a ranger, a vigilante/ranger, and a pre-gen cleric.
Few tips, especially to those who will run it at Gen Con
1. Have the initiative for the final encounter pre-rolled and just take out what doesn't show. With the number of elementals, the enemies and allies, it slowed down the session while I figured out what was there, what their initiative was and putting everything in order. It was super easy to accidentally skip something in initiative.
2. You might want to emphasize a) that the Pathfinders should be taking note of anything strange they find, to give them a fair shot at the second prestige. I just emphasized with my voice the Venture Captain's line "If you find something interesting along the way, be sure to take note of it for later" and repeated something similar in the Q&A session at the beginning. B) you might want to emphasize how the sand in part A1 is flowing like water. My party ended up not having a lot of knowledges (we ended up with 7 people and so I made the call to split into two groups. My other GM ran the Confirmation instead, so they ended up without a bard that they kind of expected) My party, especially the paladin were on point for looking out for weirdness, but without knowledge skills, the only thing they actually got for the second prestige were the flowers. I blame the pyramid level of Super Mario 64 for them not thinking the sand thing was weird enough to note. You don't have to over do it, don't hit them over the head with it, but just a line or something about how the sand is acting unusually. I don't necessarily feel bad that they got the single prestige. But with just a tad of emphasis, I think they would have felt rewarded for picking up on it, and if they didn't pick up on it, they wouldn't have felt as cheated if they did remember what I said.
3. Kind of a RP lite session that we had? They didn't seem to want to talk to their elemental emissary. I kind of expected that so I did put a little emphasis on Kihur at the beginning. It was fun, and an Exchange member at my table ended up recruiting him for the Exchange.
edit: Also am I crazy or is the Dazzled condition in the high-tier version of A1 just... not important at all? Or is it supposed to linger for the entire session?
Since the dazzled condition seems to come from the sand "showering the creatures within 10 feet," I'd say they need to be within 10 feet to have that condition. Really, this is just an effect for narration. It should make it clear that they don't want to linger there.
