Im trying to make RPG characters level 1-20, but those dont work so well in the Pathfinder Society. PFS benefits more from Multiclassing so just having a bunch of stacking class features is more important than working towards having True Resurrection or Wish.
Some of the early advantages I can think of are:
1 Martial Weapon Proficiency. To use a Greatsword/Nodachi or Lucerne Hammer.
2 Animal Companion
3 Crowd Control and Cure Spells(for wand)
4 Flurry, preferably with weapons
The Hybrid classes would be decent in PFS as they have spells and equipment proficiencies, but they are all much worse in spellcasting. That makes them seem like long-term failures.
A Hunter by itself would be pretty self-sufficient in PFS.
Doesn't PFS cap at level 12?
Half-Elves have an alt. racial trait which allows them to be treated as a 1st level spellcaster for the purpose of spell trigger or completion items.
Doesn't PFS cap at level 12?
PFS scenarios do, I believe you can use modules and adventure paths to get above this though. :-)
Doesn't PFS cap at level 12?
There are two or three specific multi-session modules that are for level 11 and up.
If you built a polearm using ranger you could check all the boxes except flurry. But with investents in AoO and trip/disarm that could probably end up fine.
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Chaos, there is no feature of the society which rewards multiclassing any more then Pathfinder as a whole, aside from the assumptions of you and your local players about how you are 'supposed' to play.
Anything which works in society play works in pathfinder in general. But you need to be aware of the design style of your GM, or in the case of a prepublished adventure, the design style of the writer.
If you are going to be wildly multiclassing, you aren't getting much out of any type of caster, but you are right that a 9th level caster would provide the most benefit, but it would still be a bad one. using a hybrid class to gain many of the benefits you want (instead of all the class features), but still gain an effective number of spells.
Instead you appear to once again be going for the Party in a character routine, instead of a Team Player build. You want to be a two weapon fighter (thats essentially what flurry is), who uses a two handed weapon, and have crowd control and cure spells, and have an animal companion. That would require at least 3 classes, 4 if we avoided hybrid classes, and your spellcasting is going to be weaker than most because you lost at least 2 levels of casting advancement, no matter what classes you use.
I recommend pairing down your list. As you said Hunters are pretty self sufficient. single classed hunters dont flurry, but they do have an AC, martial weapons, 3/4 BAB and a strong spell list including cure spells and crowd control. The tradeoff for having all these things is hunters are only 6th level casters.
If you insist on multiclassing with no hybrid classes like the hunter, I can try to work something out. But I doubt you'll like the tradeoffs any more than the hybrid tradeoffs.
TWF Warpriest is pretty effective if you're willing to drop the animal companion. They count their level as prereqs for feats making it viable, and sacred weapon lets then focus on high crit weapons. Fervor removes somatic components as well, and channel energy is WIS based I believe.
Half-Elves have an alt. racial trait which allows them to be treated as a 1st level spellcaster for the purpose of spell trigger or completion items.
Where's that trait? what's it called?
Half-Elves have an alt. racial trait which allows them to be treated as a 1st level spellcaster for the purpose of spell trigger or completion items.Where's that trait? what's it called?
Advanced Race Guide, Arcane Training. Sadly only arcane stuff but it could be Bard or Witch for CLW's.
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Alchemist, Investigator, Bard, Inquisitor, and Hunter are all excellent in both formats. None get Flurry, but they have enough tricks to be excellent in combat, and mostly have the rest of those options covered one way or another.
Plus, they're all pretty great at skills (okay, Alchemist a bit less so), which is super relevant in many games (including PFS).
guys, watch out for this thread. This poster basically came and "asked" the same question last week
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guys, watch out for this thread. This poster basically came and "asked" the same question last week
That's...not actually the same question. Or even close, really.
Both are potentially divisive, I suppose, but they aren't the same.
I did? Hmm I thought I had a sense of Deja Vu.
To rephrase the topic Im trying to see compatible builds in both formats. Personally I really want to get to the point where Heat vision beats Batarangs.
So option #1 a pure(preferably caster) class that is useful from level 1 to 20. Problem is this is a specialist and in random groups may be useless.
#2 Hybrid class. Most benefits are at level 1 and gradually lags behind full casters. Some are more useful then others because of spell lists or useful class features.
#1 Multiclass. Better for Pathfinder Society as it doesnt reach as high and many bonuses stack especially saves. Main problem is that casters suffer hard in outside games as it will always be weaker than full casters. For Physical classes that isnt as much a problem so making a Fighter/barbarian/Rogue is possible.
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Oracles, Clerics, and Druids are useful all the way from 1 to 20, and good in PFS. So is Witch, actually, since they can use their Hex an unlimited number of times per day even at 1st level.
So are, as mentioned, pretty much all 6-level casters. Some of which are better at their schticks than full casters (Magus at burst damage and Bard at party-buffing, for example).
Barbarians are a solid single-classed build as well, as are Paladins. Both in PFS and more generally. Both strongly reward sticking with the Class.
Really, even in PFS, multi-classing for more than a level or so (not counting Prestige Classes) is sub-par 9 times out of 10. Pathfinder really rewards sticking to your Class.
This is meant to be two conversations. One is how to make long term RPG caster able to have high class performance in a Pathfinder society campaign even early on.
The Other is to using multiclassing to make a useful Pathfinder Society Character.
Multiclassing i can think of several early bonuses that I would probably not do in a regular campaign.
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1 Barbarian/Bloodrager have martial weapons, medium armor, and Fast Movement at level 1.
2 Unchained Rogue has free Weapon Finesses, many class skills, high skills points, sneak attack, and trapfinding.
3 Hunter lacks the Druids equipment restrictions, and has an animal companion. the Boon Companion Feat allows multiclassing and still have an at-level combat pet. The high skills and skills points are gravy. Low starting Wisdom is more acceptable at there isnt much worry of getting tier 6 spells.
4 Bard or more preferably Skald have useful abilities. Skald has magic while still able to use light/medium armor+shields and has martial weapon proficiencies. Bardic Knowledge is a huge bonus early on and using several wands namely a Cure wand is great. Charisma is the dump stat but a 7 charisma still technically works, but no spells.
wizards, sorcerer, oracles, druids, shamans, clerics, psychics, witches, and arcanist are all great classes from 1 to 12 and 20.
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I did? Hmm I thought I had a sense of Deja Vu.
To rephrase the topic Im trying to see compatible builds in both formats. Personally I really want to get to the point where Heat vision beats Batarangs.
So option #1 a pure(preferably caster) class that is useful from level 1 to 20. Problem is this is a specialist and in random groups may be useless.
#2 Hybrid class. Most benefits are at level 1 and gradually lags behind full casters. Some are more useful then others because of spell lists or useful class features.
#1 Multiclass. Better for Pathfinder Society as it doesnt reach as high and many bonuses stack especially saves. Main problem is that casters suffer hard in outside games as it will always be weaker than full casters. For Physical classes that isnt as much a problem so making a Fighter/barbarian/Rogue is possible.
Pure classes are only specialists in so much as you make them such. If you give them a combat role and some skills, i hesitate to say any class would be useless. There are admittedly some cases where your shtick isn't useful, but you should always have something. This is something that has been expressed to you before. A skald focusing on providing the best raging song might have a party of hybrid spellcasters who don't want to gain the rage. So his "thing" is not effective. But that doesn't mean he is useless. He should have a weapon on his own, and even if he is not top DPR, or using the mathematically ideal weapon, he is still contributing, and therefore not useless.
Hybrid - Yes. they lag behind full casters. That is to balance the martial options they have. If you tried to multiclass a fighter/wizard, youd lag behind a full caster as well. I'm not sure why you treat this as some kind of revelation. Some classes are more useful then others? OMG. someone tell the fighter - he might not be as versitile as the wizard! In all seriousness though, take a look at the feature lists. they do not get 'most' benefits at level one. Most of the features you get are in some way level based, and a level one dip doesn't actually grant you significant benefits at high levels.
Multiclassing - You again, without any real evidence, assert that Multiclassing is somehow better for pathfinder society. A well built multiclasser is just as effective in high level pathfinder play as a pure classed character. My brawler/Urogue is highly effective at higher level play. wild multiclassing for features tends not to play out well in either system, though there are exceptions. As for your assertions about multiclassed casters being weaker than full casters - Yeah. Thats the trade off. Thats the decsion you have to make. If you want martial power, you need to give up something, and as a caster that something is spell advancement. But suffer hard? i disagree. being slightly behind the casting curve can work if what you got in trade benefits you. my barbarian/oracle lost a bit of spellcasting, but the spellcasting was primarily for buffing purposes, and the martial power i got in return worked out really well, even at high levels. If the only thing that matters to you as a caster is Wish or such, then Multiclassing a caster isn't for you. But there are certainly builds which drive the reduced spellcasting to the benefit of the martial options gained (or vice versa).
Fighter/Barbarian/Rogue is actually a weird combination, and would actually probably be a bad idea. But thats a different post.
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PFS goes to 20 if you do it right, it just doesn't go any further.
That said, yes, most game play is 1 through 11.
Azothath's game theory post is right on point for the most part.
The other main difference between PFS and home games is that in a PFS game you (generally) never know what other characters you're going to be adventuring with. Having a bit less specialization and a bit more diversity in build can be a good plan to make sure you don't end up in a hyper specialized group with giant holes in what you can deliver. This is one reason you may see a few more multi classed characters in PFS than you would in home game play where everyone knows what's coming to the table and can optimize as a group more efficiently.
The real question, for both, is what do you have fun playing?
From there, it's much easier to make suggestions.
And that is where things wander. People have different opinions. I miss that I am implying but not outright asking for do-anything character.
To me a successful Pathfinder Society Character does have to be able to do anything as you dont know what your team will be. So you have to be able to use Cure Wands, roll skills, fight, and be durable all at the same time. A successful specialist group is quite rare in my experience as characters dont get to the point where they can rely solely on one specialty.
And that is where things wander. People have different opinions. I miss that I am implying but not outright asking for do-anything character.
To me a successful Pathfinder Society Character does have to be able to do anything as you dont know what your team will be. So you have to be able to use Cure Wands, roll skills, fight, and be durable all at the same time. A successful specialist group is quite rare in my experience as characters dont get to the point where they can rely solely on one specialty.
If you want a do-everything character, play a Bard or Skald archetype. That is as close as it comes.
Otherwise, you should just know where your character is strong and weak. Make sure you can contribute both in and out of combat in some way for most situations. You should also pay attention to the blurbs for the scenarios, almost all of them give an idea of what the characters will be faces.
Hint: If it has the word "Ghost" or "Ghosts" in the title, you should be ready to deal with haunts and incorporeal undead.
It can also really help if you have more than one character in a tier, since that allows you to pick the one that best helps balance the group.
And that is where things wander. People have different opinions. I miss that I am implying but not outright asking for do-anything character.
To me a successful Pathfinder Society Character does have to be able to do anything as you don't know what your team will be. So you have to be able to use Cure Wands, roll skills, fight, and be durable all at the same time. A successful specialist group is quite rare in my experience as characters dont get to the point where they can rely solely on one specialty.
(assuming okay with infernal healing as the cure wands requirement)
Well that sounds like a bard, investigator, bloodrager, wizard, sorcerer, oracle, magus, cleric, druid, paladin, ranger, alchemist, inquisitor, summoner, witch, arcanist, hunter, shaman, skald, warpriest, medium, mesmerist, occultist, psychic, and spiritualist all can fullfill those requirements. Plus a fighter archetype and rogue archetype. The other classes can as well, but it'll take a few levels as you work up UMD.
I have a level 8 bloodrager, his OoC skill is intimidate and he attempts to aid other skill checks. I have a lv7 paladin, he gets 1 skill point per level. He's still decent at diplomacy and intimidate. I have a lv12 investigator. Good at skills and still fights in combat. I have a wizard 4, he only came close to dying once because lv1 is swingy. And I have a lv10 medium/oracle that is really cha focused in light armor, but he still swings the stick around in combat, doesn't always do the most DPR a round, but definitely people are glad that he didn't dump all combat usefulness just because he's a skills guy.
Our Eyes of the Ten, a lv12 scenario, is a spell-less archer ranger, summoner, investigator, wizard, and sorcerer. Notice the clear lack of anything that is considered a tank? Notice the clear lack of divine casting? We need to UMD cure light wounds wands. So far we're half way through and doing okay.
Yes you need to play a little differently depending on the classes in the group. But I've had a party of a paladin and 3 (pretty poorly made)rogues succeed at scenarios. It's not like these are death fights or have the odds against you. These are meant for a random party of 4 people of low quality character have a pretty good chance of succeeding.
Advanced Race Guide, Arcane Training. Sadly only arcane stuff but it could be Bard or Witch for CLW's.Half-Elves have an alt. racial trait which allows them to be treated as a 1st level spellcaster for the purpose of spell trigger or completion items.Where's that trait? what's it called?
Keep in mind that since you're getting this trait because you don't have an appropriate casting class, it would mean effectively giving up all favored class bonuses forever.
If you're trying to build a PFS char that can do most anything, that's probably where you're getting the impression that most PFS chars are multi-classed. Those who can do everything probably take a level dip here or there and sacrifice their final level of greater effectiveness in PFS scenarios for better utility earlier on or increased specialty for a character concept (ex. Spell-Warrior Skald or Occultist dip for a martial character, Sorcerer Dip for a Wizard, or Oracle Dip for a Paladin).
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And that is where things wander. People have different opinions. I miss that I am implying but not outright asking for do-anything character.
To me a successful Pathfinder Society Character does have to be able to do anything as you don't know what your team will be. So you have to be able to use Cure Wands, roll skills, fight, and be durable all at the same time. A successful specialist group is quite rare in my experience as characters don't get to the point where they can rely solely on one specialty.
I would challenge that perception. In my experience, if you can do do things well, you can both contribute often and leave room for others to do the same.
If you can't use your Cure wand, keep a few potions on hand as a backup.
If you don't have many skill points, pick one common skill to focus on, and spread out the others into clutch trained-only skills you can synergize with. I.e. Profession(soldier, gambler, sailer), Craft(alchemy), Knowledge(nobility), even Disable Device
If you aren't built to deal much damage, make sure you can always deal damage. Equip yourself with bless weapon, ghost salt, cold iron, silver, and adamantine. Plus, acid and fire. Or support your party.
If you can't take a hit, play defensively. Avoid combat when you can, and watch your position when you can't.
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And that is where things wander. People have different opinions. I miss that I am implying but not outright asking for do-anything character.
To me a successful Pathfinder Society Character does have to be able to do anything as you dont know what your team will be. So you have to be able to use Cure Wands, roll skills, fight, and be durable all at the same time. A successful specialist group is quite rare in my experience as characters dont get to the point where they can rely solely on one specialty.
But you also seem to imply that you dont just want to pick up a few features, you want to be BEST at EVERYTHING. a bunch of classes that can do Cure wands + skills + fight + durability exist without any multiclassing. But lets look at our original list in the OP
- Cure Wands AND Crowd Control
- General Martial weapon proficency and Flurry, implied that you want to flurry with a weapon that isn't on the monk list
- Animal Companion
- No mention of skills or durability
if you drop the flurry requirement, you are talking about a hunter. But reduced spellcasting makes them a "long term failure". This is not correct, and in no case will you get full 9th level caster who doesn't have reduced spellcasting if you want to fulfill your other requirements.
This is why things "wander"- your position and opinions tend to vary and responding to your posts as a whole becomes very difficult.
And while it is true you need to be prepared for everything, you dont need to be BEST at everything. In fact the multiclassing option hurts you in the early levels, a large chunk of your PFS career, because you need to get all the levels in. But lets see what I can build for your original request, plus the skills and durability requirements. Ill be back shortly
Hmm, I think you skimmed while reading.
First I fully understand that said character will be a class mongrel with alot of abilities but little growth in them. That isnt a Master-of-all, but a master-of-none.
This is more realistic as the many of the downsides from multiclassing wont be reached in Pathfinder Society. Just like the thread opener, no Wish spell to work towards.
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The OTHER topic, which I should have made in a separate thread, is making a Full caster that is frankly better to handle the versatility needed to perform well in any situation. This a basically a wish list idea. I keeps appearing because I cant merge [blank] class with [blank] to make super-character. I hate that I cannot make a supernatural Cleric/Druid/Wizard capable of making the unpowered Fighter class completely obsolete, for example.
I can understand why threads like this are ignored, but at least I can keep wishing.
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I am still surprised how much the forum hive is fickle. One week I see people saying I should multiclass and now its anti-multiclass.
I am still surprised how much the forum hive is fickle. One week I see people saying I should multiclass and now its anti-multiclass.
It is seldom that people agree on exactly when to multi-class. It can be a powerful tool, but if not done carefully you end up with a severely underpowered character. There are a lot of different opinions of what makes it worthwhile in certain cases but not in others.
The general rules are never multi-class a full caster and always be careful to make sure you gain more than you lose by multi-classing. If you aren't sure that the gain is worthwhile, it probably isn't.
You will also find some people almost always multi-class their characters, while others very seldom or never do.
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I am still surprised how much the forum hive is fickle. One week I see people saying I should multiclass and now its anti-multiclass.
By definition the "forum hive" is made of many different people with many different opinions and experiences. Treating your fellow forum users as an amorphous mass leads to confusion on all sides.
The most multi-classing I've done is a few single level dips that I trained out of at higher level. I have a concept building that won't train out that dip level, though.
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I am still surprised how much the forum hive is fickle. One week I see people saying I should multiclass and now its anti-multiclass.
Well it's because you're super unclear about what you want and why you want it.
I feel primarily on the forums you see people "correcting wrong ideas".
If you make the statement, "only full classed character are viable" you'll get a lot of people telling you how great a multi-classed character can be.
If you make the statement, "I have to multiclass because game ends at lv12 and multiclassing is the only way to be viable for such a short campaign" you'll get lots of people telling you how single class characters are plenty viable in a lv12 campaign.
First I fully understand that said character will be a class mongrel with alot of abilities but little growth in them. That isnt a Master-of-all, but a master-of-none.
This is more realistic as the many of the downsides from multiclassing wont be reached in Pathfinder Society. Just like the thread opener, no Wish spell to work towards.
I have a friend in PFS that is working his sorcerer towards getting wish. He plans on finding and playing the available options of getting that high with this sorcerer.
The downsides of multiclassing can EASILY be reached in PFS, depending on the goal of the character.
And even though here you say, "That isnt a Master-of-all, but a master-of-none." everything else you post is you want someone that is master of all. ANYONE can make diplomacy. Class skill and one rank gives +4. There you go, any class can easily reach this and be a master of none. But from your posts it seems that you feel having a +4 in diplomacy is just as bad as having a -6 and isn't worth getting.
So unless you have a clear goal, multi-classing just for fun or to have a lot of low random abilities doesn't make a good character.
The OTHER topic, which I should have made in a separate thread, is making a Full caster that is frankly better to handle the versatility needed to perform well in any situation. This a basically a wish list idea. I keeps appearing because I cant merge [blank] class with [blank] to make super-character. I hate that I cannot make a supernatural Cleric capable of making the unpowered Fighter class obsolete, for example.
If you want a cleric that makes the fighter obsolete you can get a dozen people telling you how to do that in like a half-hour. See here is also an example of what I just said, "the versatility needed to perform well in any situation" having a +4 diplomacy is a master of none approach and easily reached. But again, seems that it's not good enough for "the versatility needed to perform well in any situation". And again, you seem to NEED to cover EVERY situation. Not that you need to have a way past the guard, but the need to be good at EVERY way to get past the guard.
Summary: If the advice you're getting or the impressions we're getting about you aren't correct, you're not communicating well.
Also worth noting - there are a few concepts which can ONLY occur when multi-classing. (Oradins, for example [with life link + swift action self-heal], can currently* only be built with multi-classing.)
*though there's a healer's handbook in the works, so we'll see how long this statement survives paizo's product schedule
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Hmm, I think you skimmed while reading.
First I fully understand that said character will be a class mongrel with alot of abilities but little growth in them. That isnt a Master-of-all, but a master-of-none.
This is more realistic as the many of the downsides from multiclassing wont be reached in Pathfinder Society. Just like the thread opener, no Wish spell to work towards.
I disagree. You see downsides quickly with wildly multiclassed characters. For instance, at low levels, a 3 or more class character is often incomplete and difficult to work with until everything comes together.
Multiclassing without solid planning hurts. You can easily take incompatible features, lock yourself out of classes you want, or pick up a lot of deadwood. Its not universally a good option.
You mentioned a group of options you could pick up by multiclassing. The exact phrasing of those options lead me to some further conclusions. But I did build a 4 class 12th level character with all of those options, Just to see what it would look like.
Oread Cleric (Crusader) 1/Monk (Martial Artist) 2/Ranger 1/Druid 8
Oread gives us +2 Strength and +2 Wisdom, key stats for this build.
20 point buy stats at creation are: 16/14/14/10/16/8
Put 2 level ups into Strength for 18/14/14/10/16/8
First we pick up Monk for flurry. We want to stack 1st level bonuses, so lets take the original monk for the boost to Will. We choose the Martial Artist Archetype to get around the alignment restrictions. At some point we will pick up a 2nd level for Evasion.
To flurry with a non-monk weapon we need Crusader's flurry, and for that we need Channel Energy. So we pick up a level of Cleric. We wont invest more into this, so we take the crusader archetype, limiting our neutered spell casting, to get weapon focus as a bonus feat. This covers the other pre-req for Crusader's Flurry. We will choose Gorum as our deity so our flurry weapon is a greatsword.
Ranger gets us +1 bab, some save bonuses, and Favored Enemy. Normally a one level dip isn't significant, but we get some added kick by taking the shapeshifting hunter feat to stack our druid levels with our ranger levels for Favored enemy and Wild Shape.
Finally we get druid. It has our Animal Companion, so we want this class to be our primary. It also gives us some crowd control spells.
Make sure to take the magical knack trait to get +2 CL to all druid spells. Take the Boon Compainion feat to bring the AC up to full level. And you will probably want combat casting to get those CC spells off while in combat.
How useful are the abilities you have gained in this process. Cleric features are far too minor to be of any use. Same with the ranger features other than favored enemy. Due to a lack of advancement, the Monk AC bonus isn't worth it. Druid Wild Shaping isn't going to be a priority, as you should be flurrying with the Greatsword, so that is largely useless. And because most of your class levels are 3/4 bab, you have the same problem flurrying as the CRB Monk - you dont have enough attack bonus to sack -2 on all attacks for one extra hit. Flurry of Misses indeed. You dont have the feats to improve your crowd control DCs, and despite magical knack you will have a harder time getting past spell resistance.
You've picked up a bunch of features, but id argue that most of them are not just sub optimal, but useless. Multiclassing to pick up a string of 1st and second level features that sound good isn't generally a good idea. The downsides are there, and you would see them in play. They just don't look as bad on paper.
Keep in mind that since you're getting this trait because you don't have an appropriate casting class, it would mean effectively giving up all favored class bonuses forever.Advanced Race Guide, Arcane Training. Sadly only arcane stuff but it could be Bard or Witch for CLW's.Half-Elves have an alt. racial trait which allows them to be treated as a 1st level spellcaster for the purpose of spell trigger or completion items.Where's that trait? what's it called?
It's a racial trait that switches out Multitalented. Do you mean for heavy multiclass builds?
crusader can't pick up Weapon focus till it has 1 bab. So either go unchained or take the cleric level later.
#1 Alignment of that build would be highly specific, locked as lawful neutral. Gorum is Chaotic Neutral so you cant be a follower of him.
#2 equipment questions. Monk prevents armor and Flurry from being used as the same time. Druid cant have any metal armor unless its Dragonhide. I think you had this with a Wand of Mage Armor in mind. Still big issues on durability.
Wild Shape doesnt work with equipment, which is a problem Ive never heard someone actually completely solve. I can think of Goliath archetype to allow weapons why transformed though.
This is more realistic as the many of the downsides from multiclassing wont be reached in Pathfinder Society. Just like the thread opener, no Wish spell to work towards.
Dude, the fact that you can't cast Wish in PFS doesn't mean that staying full class isn't worth it. Think of level 12 as your final destination, not level 20. At level 11 Wizards, Clerics, and Druids can still cast 6th level spells. That's still Chain Lightning, Disintegrate, and much more on your spell list. That's still something to work towards. Losing out on spell levels by multiclassing still hurts, even though you will never get the super-duper cool spells. I see you mention Wish several times. If that's your end goal in Pathfinder, you shouldn't play Society, simple as that. There are still enough other cool spells and abilities to play around with, though.
Still though, multiclassing can be worth it if you know what you're doing. Multiclassing several times just to be good at all things mean you'll never be really good at anything. And classes are designed to have weak spots. Full-BAB classes hit hard, but half of them never really get spells to play around with. And conversely, full casters can have knowledges and all the spell power they want, but that mostly means they probably won't be very good in close-combat. Multiclassing mostly means that you'll be average in two things, rather than excel in one. And the game really promotes excelling, rather than being average.
Besides, Pathfinder is a multiplayer game. The game supposes that you'll complement each other. No one can take care of all the duties you listed, but most classes can manage two or three of them at the same time. If four players all specialise in two different things, chances are they'll have the bases covered. As I've said before, I'd like to know what your average party consists of so I can see how your playgroup manages, but I've been in PFS for a few years now and even though I've seen some sub-optimal parties, they've all managed to pull through. As someone earlier mentioned, you might lack some roles, but I'm sure that if you're well-prepared, you'll manage.
#1 Alignment of that build would be highly specific, locked as lawful neutral. Gorum is Chaotic Neutral so you cant be a follower of him.
#2 equipment questions. Monk prevents armor and Flurry from being used as the same time. Druid cant have any metal armor unless its Dragonhide. I think you had this with a Wand of Mage Armor in mind. Still big issues on durability.
Wild Shape doesnt work with equipment, which is a problem Ive never heard someone actually completely solve. I can think of Goliath archetype to allow weapons why transformed though.
He said he went martial artist monk, which can be any alignment.
And that build is plenty durabile.
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#1 Alignment of that build would be highly specific, locked as lawful neutral. Gorum is Chaotic Neutral so you cant be a follower of him.
#2 equipment questions. Monk prevents armor and Flurry from being used as the same time. Druid cant have any metal armor unless its Dragonhide. I think you had this with a Wand of Mage Armor in mind. Still big issues on durability.
Wild Shape doesnt work with equipment, which is a problem Ive never heard someone actually completely solve. I can think of Goliath archetype to allow weapons why transformed though.
Please remember this build was intended to see what a build that included all of your "good" class features from your original post. Mainly to show how flawed it was as an idea to just grab class features which sound useful. It was more flawed then i thought.
1) As I listed in my build, I took martial artist to lose the lawful requirement.
2) I assumed you wouldn't be using wild shape because we invested heavily in getting that greatsword flurry (as again, i mentioned in my post, it was one of the drawbacks). Druid was just the most effective way of getting a full Animal companion and crowd control spells.
3)Apparently they decided to hide armor restrictions for flurry of blows in the Proficiencies entry. they duplicated the restriction in AC bonus and fast movement but not in flurry of blows. that makes things difficult. I dont know of any archetype which grants Flurry of blows without that armor restriction. Brawler comes close, but it has a differently named feature which works differently. I can see no way to get a good flurry in this build, which really just brings this build back to being a hunter build.
Monk "When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a monk loses his AC bonus, as well as his fast movement and flurry of blows abilities."
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Im going to explain some reasoning behind features that i have found useful.
#1 Martial weapons are more powerful, have better critical chance, and some special rules such as having multiple damage types to avoid damage reduction or special rules.
#2 An animal Companion is effectively another party member in combat. Some possibly choices can have High AC, multiple primary attacks at full BAB, and/or high movement. They can be given some equipment such as light armor as barding to make them tougher.
#3 spells are useful even if DC is too low to realistically lock enemies down with crowd control. In particular allowing use of wands without a high failure Use Magic Device check. A wand of Cure light Wounds is effectively a medi-kit then.
#4 Flurry allows multiple attacks before reaching the point where the Base attack Bonus allows attacks.
Flurry is the only particularly difficult one as Monks and the Brawler have restrictions in what kind of weapon they can use and armor choices that can prevent them from using it at all. a 2 Level dip in a brawler allows a magical d10 scizore weapon and/or a shield/buckler.
So a Hunter/Brawler could work out fairly well in PFS. If it could use a Nodachi or Lucerne Hammer with brawlers Flurry, it would be excellent.
1) the DPR of a martial weapon compared to simple weapon is actually quite small. Longspear 1d8, glaive 1d10. Average +1 damage on hit, DPR increase less than 1 DPR.
Also, most classes that have simple weapons that are meant to be in combat get a few good weapons to use. like cleric and inquisitor get deity weapon and bards get rapier and bow. And worse case, plenty of races give proficiency with good weapons.
2) Animal companions are pretty awesome for the first few levels and they decline in usefulness as you level. The good ones are large and are hard to maneuver all the time, and unless you spend a lot of money and spells to help them they really lag behind the party. Being a 3/4 bab 8d "character" that is 3 levels behind the rest of the party makes for a weak character at lv8.
3) It's very rare that someone can't use infernal healing or cure light in the party. And it's also very easy to get either of those. And if all you care about is cure light wand you can umd that easily after a few levels.
4) Yes flurry is an extra attack, but comes with the drawbacks too. Thus it's more a balancing act than an easy power boost. Scizore gives a -1 to attack rolls. 1 accuracy is about 2 damage, so your d10 scizore is DPR about the same as a d6 weapon because of the accuracy penalty.
So yes, while those features are nice, they are usually just a part of the character to help balance it with other classes. ALL classes can work well in PFS. So it's much easier to build a character if you have a character or theme or something in mind. Trying to grab-bag all "the best" class features turns you into a kinda meh character and doesn't necessarily make you a better character either.
So yes, while those features are nice, they are usually just a part of the character to help balance it with other classes. ALL classes can work well in PFS. So it's much easier to build a character if you have a character or theme or something in mind. Trying to grab-bag all "the best" class features turns you into a kinda meh character and doesn't necessarily make you a better character either.
Um yes. I thought that was already understood.
So Ill repeat the goal again. Create a multiclass character that can gain as many benefits as possible in the few levels that can be played in a Pathfinder Society campaign.
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Now making a Game Breaking character for pathfinder RPG that can fit into Pathfinder Society game is a separate topic.