Thoughts and predictions on the next "Ultimate" book


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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With PaizoCon and GenCon, we have some basic news about upcoming hardcover books
Of course Starfinder will get lots of publicity and attention

Any thoughts on what the next "ultimate" book will be?

What would you hope it is?

What do you think it will be?

(this maybe overlap... or not)


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Ultimate Commoner!


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Ultimate Errata. Rip the band-aid off all at once, see what they fix, what they butcher, and what they disappointingly overlook for the last time.

And then we never have to see one again.

Slightly more seriously, I'd like to see an Ultimate Races book that combines all the ARG and different splatbook races and racial options into one book, and adds a few more things. Like a Dragonborn type race, or a proper Warforged equivalent. And no, Wyvaran and Androids don't count.


Milo v3 wrote:
Ultimate Commoner!

Believe it or not, this has been done 3rd party. It even has a Paizo store page.


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Ultimate Adventure, where it's like ultimate intrigue except for old-school dungeon-delving.

Ultimate Savagery, rules for playing monsters.

UnArcaneElection wrote:

Believe it or not, this has been done 3rd party. It even has a Paizo store page.

Not what I'd want in an Ultimate Commoner book. I'd want it to be non-adventuring abilities for every class.


^D&D 3.5 had Savage Species to give rules for playing monsters. Somebody (forgot whether it is Dreamscarred Press or Kobold Press) is doing a Pathfinder version thereof, although if I understand correctly it is being released in bits and pieces instead of as one big volume. Cool idea.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

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Ultimate arcana.

A big book of Paizo's favorite bits and pieces of ogl/3pp options in one hard cover.

Like Unearthed Arcana for D&D 3.5


UnArcaneElection wrote:

^D&D 3.5 had Savage Species to give rules for playing monsters. Somebody (forgot whether it is Dreamscarred Press or Kobold Press) is doing a Pathfinder version thereof, although if I understand correctly it is being released in bits and pieces instead of as one big volume. Cool idea.

both rite publishing and dream scarred press

dream scarred is the entire monster broken down into a class while rite publishing version is kind of one class for a certain type of monsters and you have several options on how you want to make it.


Ultimate psionics... yeah, I know it's 3rd party, but I want it made official so I have an easier time convincing DMs to let me play a psionicist....
Heck, I might even try to join a PFS group if psionics became PFS legal.


Klorox wrote:

Ultimate psionics... yeah, I know it's 3rd party, but I want it made official so I have an easier time convincing DMs to let me play a psionicist....

Heck, I might even try to join a PFS group if psionics became PFS legal.

I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. From what I've read the Paizo crew is satisfied with what what dream-scarred press has done to the point where they see no need to do it themselves, but as far as convincing your DM Paizo staff has endorsed dream-scarred over and over as your psionics place to go.


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I wish they would do an ultimate alignment book- really put a spin on classes like paladin/anti paladin- the new gray paladin really didn't do much for me

Maybe change up or update the alignment system with new/alternate rules - hell even get rid of it would find for me

Of course some new spells, feats, archetypes etc based off of alignments would nice too


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I like the Ultimate Alignment idea Moto suggested.

We have so far..

Magic
Combat
Intrigue
Equipment
Campaign

Ultimate Faith?
- how to build your own religions, gods and heavens. Examples of real and imagined mythologies.

Ultimate Story?
- how to weave player focused story into adventure paths and how to build characters with great stories that a GM can work with.


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After Ultimate Intrigue, which heavily dealt courtly/espionage/urban adventure themes, the most obvious hole that needs to be filled is Ultimate Survival, which focuses on campaigns set within wildernesses.

Could cover various "natury" archetypes, maybe some new classes (a full bab dedicated shapeshifter or Tarzanesque feral person would work well with this theme), expanded item/spell/feat options for outdoorsy campaigns, environmental rules, and advice on running exploration or wilderness survival games.


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I wouldn't mind Ultimate Combat II or Ultimate Magic II, as long as there is enough material for it.


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Ultimate technology. I want all the tools to make things REALLY anachronistic.


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Ultimate Booty Shakin'

It's all about getting down with your bad self, and busting out the sickest dance moves Golarion's ever seen.


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I second Ultimate Exploration and/or Ultimate Adventure.

I want a comprehensive dungeon builder, with traps and hazards that scale with CR and have different themes. Dungeons underground, underwater, in space, in a forest, in a desert, in a tomb, in a city, give us all the dungeons!

Include a full class version of the archaeologist for Indiana Jones based adventuring. I like a full BAB arcane caster whose mechanics are similar to the Dandy ranger.

Sections could include a lot more love for how to make dungeons & hazards matter in high level games where spells and abilities can more or less circumvent them.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Ultimate Apocalypse - A book on how to run truly Golarion-ending adventures. Rovagug wakes up, Aroden returns as a zombie, etc.... Or just a book expanding on the 'what if's' should the PCs lose an AP - or all the APs at once.


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I'm holding my breath for something like Ultimate Archetypes. A nice big hardcover book with a load of new archetypes for each class thus far published.


SheepishEidolon wrote:
I wouldn't mind Ultimate Combat II or Ultimate Magic II, as long as there is enough material for it.

We could probably use an Ultimate Combat II. Unlike Ultimate Magic, a lot of Ultimate Combat's stuff isn't used nearly as much.

I'd like to see Tactical Feats implemented, honestly. Give us some feats that actually change up the stuff you can do in battle.

The Exchange

three words: Ultimate Creation Guide. Mainly designated to designing your own stuff so you don't have to wait for that elusive book that you want so badly but create your way, in your own vision.


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Eryx_UK wrote:
I'm holding my breath for something like Ultimate Archetypes. A nice big hardcover book with a load of new archetypes for each class thus far published.

"Ultimate Catch-Up" would be pretty good, giving options for classes like the Unchained Monk and Kineticist options to put them on par with the stuff that's been out longer.

Theliah Strongarm wrote:
three words: Ultimate Creation Guide. Mainly designated to designing your own stuff so you don't have to wait for that elusive book that you want so badly but create your way, in your own vision.

Why do you need a book for that?


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Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Ultimate leadership/kingdom building - for those that prefer micromanaging a kingdom over adventuring.

Ultimate service - Don't trust that ghoul cohort! The book titled "To serve adventurers", it's a cookbook!

Ultimate diplomacy - Good news, I made all my enemies into friends. Bad news, they are friends with each other and united to destroy us.

Ultimate entertainment - Detailing the board games, gambling past times, and entertainment in your fantasy settings.


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Ultimate NPC's: Detailing Lv. 1 - 20 NPC's from the other core classes as well as NPC's from the other core prestige classes.

Ultimate Prestige: Detailing all prestige classes introduced by Pathfinder and giving an example stat block for each one.

Ultimate Monsters: Detailing more monsters with heroic classes / prestige classes / and possibly even mythic ranks.


Son of the Veterinarian wrote:
Ultimate Apocalypse - A book on how to run truly Golarion-ending adventures. Rovagug wakes up, Aroden returns as a zombie, etc.... Or just a book expanding on the 'what if's' should the PCs lose an AP - or all the APs at once.

Based upon what we've been told so far of the Starfinder canon, you're probably going to have to wait at least 1000 years for that one . . . although before then, if you buy a LOT of APs, you can probably piece this together yourself from the sections about what happens if the PCs fail . . . .

Blackwaltzomega wrote:

We could probably use an Ultimate Combat II. Unlike Ultimate Magic, a lot of Ultimate Combat's stuff isn't used nearly as much.

I'd like to see Tactical Feats implemented, honestly. Give us some feats that actually change up the stuff you can do in battle.

Ultimate Teamwork!

Berselius wrote:
Ultimate NPC's: Detailing Lv. 1 - 20 NPC's from the other core classes as well as NPC's from the other core prestige classes.

+1 on that. But actually give us reasonably optimized NPC builds (doesn't have to be super-optimized with cheese, just not terribly unoptimized).

Berselius wrote:
Ultimate Prestige: Detailing all prestige classes introduced by Pathfinder and giving an example stat block for each one.

While we're at it, update the prestige classes that don't work well with new material (some of the prestige classes haven't even been updated from their D&D 3.5 incarnations!) and/or have broken aspects (and this doesn't always mean broken in the player's favor either . . .).

Berselius wrote:
Ultimate Monsters: Detailing more monsters with heroic classes / prestige classes / and possibly even mythic ranks.

While we're at it, do a Pathfinder conversion/update of D&D 3.5 Savage Species. Looks like Kobold Press is doing something like this, but releasing it in bits and pieces (although last time I checked on their Paizo product page, it looked like they now have a sizeable chunk out).


Ultimate arch-types actually sounds good to me I would like to old ones redone and improved upon and a healthy amount of new ones. maybe we could make it ultimate options and see some prestige classes and class options redone as well. Of course add a healthy amount of new options as well.


CaniestDog wrote:


Ultimate Faith?
- how to build your own religions, gods and heavens. Examples of real and imagined mythologies.

I'm not in the target audience for this. *holds up GURPS Religion and Deities and Demigods 3.0 edition*


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Ultimate Penultimate, right before they close out Pathfinder and announce Pathfinder 2.0.


Ultimate faith/religion, skills, monsters, races, feats, artifacts, mythic, options, rules, dungeons, occult, prestige, archetypes, adventure, exploration, culture/history, psychic, martial, companions, traits, business/merchants, and kinticist;)

The Exchange

Theliah Strongarm wrote:
three words: Ultimate Creation Guide. Mainly designated to designing your own stuff so you don't have to wait for that elusive book that you want so badly but create your way, in your own vision.
Sundankan wrote:
Why do you need a book for that?

Because it can be aggravating when your favorite publisher does not give at least a loose guide (as done in the ACG) for building your own stuff.


MMCJawa wrote:
maybe some new classes (a full bab dedicated shapeshifter or Tarzanesque feral person would work well with this theme)

I'd love to see a dedicated shapeshifter, though I'm sure "feral guy" is already done by Barbarian and other class.

Shadow Lodge

I've actually been thinking on this recently, and I'm hoping for something along the lines of an Ultimate Reflavor. A book that looks at maybe running Marvel Superheroes with PF/3E rules, or maybe turning different classes/races on their head, or playing a cavalier that rides on great troll named Kanye the Troll (but uses the stats for a horse), just because.

Another Unchained (Ultimate Unchained the first was still too fettered), book that looks at a lot more classes would be good, too.


I could go for another Unchained -- fix the Unchaining of the Summoner (the idea wasn't all wrong, but too severely limited Eidolon conceptual space), update Monk archetypes for Unchained Monk, and Unchain the Sorcerer (actually mainly a Sorcerer Bloodlines Unchained -- the core of the class is mostly okay except for needing more skill points), Fighter (update archetypes that almost but not quite work with WMH and AMH to work with them, and add more skill points), Cavalier/Samurai, Ninja, Gunslinger, and Swashbuckler.


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deuxhero wrote:
I'd love to see a dedicated shapeshifter, though I'm sure "feral guy" is already done by Barbarian and other class.

Although I wouldn'd mind one, I see no need for that to be a full class.

They just have to stop making Wildshape-ish archetypes suck. Like the rediculously badly written Metamorph alchemist, which trades out 6/9 casting and bombs for a admittedly cool WS variant with a really weird progression (which is also severely lacking options, but that's a thing the Bestiaries would need to fix); or Agathion Vigilante, which trades out a bunch of talents for a WS that's stuck at Beast Shape I, doesn't even get the strength bonus, and is locked into one animal (at least that one doesn't have AC problems). Druids get full casting in addition to a full progression WS... why do the devs/writers think that "wildshape" on a class without full casting has to be weaker?

@UnArcaneElection: "Ultimate Tier 5"? Well, UnFighter was done in Ultimate Intrigue, and UnNinja in Spymaster's Handbook. They're just both called Vigilante.


Ultimate Fighting Champions ?!? ;)

The Exchange

doc roc wrote:
Ultimate Fighting Champions ?!? ;)

What does that mean exactly? Arena fighters? Regular sellswords and mercenaries? Runaway vagabonds cum streetfighters and bruisers? Hunted criminal/victim?


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Ultimate Spellbook

Gather all current spells in one place. Toss in a handful of new feats and items that can be used to enhance spellcasting.

Make sure to include a chapter for the kineticist.


I have a hard time thinking of things that fit the pattern well. Things like "Ultimate Alignment" feel too narrow.

But I suppose the books can be paired off. Magic and Combat are the two types of fighting. Campaign and Equipment are loosely the two archetypal styles of play. If Intrigue is a type of game, its pairing would be... Ultimate Survival? That sounds convincing.


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Nah... give me Planar Adventures next... unless there's a really good topic to abort in an Ultimate book.

Sure, I've suggested a while back "Ultimate Villainy", but... both Ultimate Intrigue and Horror Adventures covered a LOT of that, so...

Sczarni

I would prefer no rulebooks..... Pathfinder is getting too far into the rules bloat department.. The only rules book I need is more monsters....

The Exchange

Snowlilly wrote:

Ultimate Spellbook

Gather all current spells in one place. Toss in a handful of new feats and items that can be used to enhance spellcasting.

Make sure to include a chapter for the kineticist.

Try Ultimate Magic


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Ultimate Flumph.

Shadow Lodge

JiCi wrote:
Nah... give me Planar Adventures next...

I'd be down for this. I kind of found Planes of Power kind of lacking, so a full book that discussed a variety of options for both travelling to, surviving, and exploring the Planes, new cool options aimed at Planar Adventures, fun tricks where different spells or feats work differently in some places (rather than just +1 or +2 CLs, maybe there could be unique little options for enhanced magic somewhat similar to Wild Magic or a Rod of Wonder).

Taking a look at long term survival on different Planes and their hostile environments, methods to avoid being targeted from a mile away by it's locals, or how to conduct a quick infiltration or assault to get in and out, (perhaps with a soul).

A look at ways to play with Demiplanes more.


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Ultimate Archetypes, detailing several new and updated archetypes for most of Pathfinder's classes.

Ultimate Monsters, detailing new options for GMs to add to current monsters to update their ability and flavor without sending their CR into the stratosphere.

Ultimate Prestige, Unchaining prestige classes, including making several of them into their own base classes (see Arcane Trickster, Mystic Theurge, Shadowdancer). Also includes several new prestige classes including a Kineticist-based PrC that focuses on a single element.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
CalethosVB wrote:
Ultimate Archetypes, detailing several new and updated archetypes for most of Pathfinder's classes.

Not gonna lie, some of those early archetypes could use some TLC.


Theliah Strongarm wrote:
Snowlilly wrote:

Ultimate Spellbook

Gather all current spells in one place. Toss in a handful of new feats and items that can be used to enhance spellcasting.

Make sure to include a chapter for the kineticist.

Try Ultimate Magic

Ultimate Magic was neither a compilation, nor was the focus on the spells themselves.

The Exchange

true, but it was a focus on magic, and spells are focused on magic


MMCJawa wrote:

After Ultimate Intrigue, which heavily dealt courtly/espionage/urban adventure themes, the most obvious hole that needs to be filled is Ultimate Survival, which focuses on campaigns set within wildernesses.

Could cover various "natury" archetypes, maybe some new classes (a full bab dedicated shapeshifter or Tarzanesque feral person would work well with this theme), expanded item/spell/feat options for outdoorsy campaigns, environmental rules, and advice on running exploration or wilderness survival games.

'ultimate Wild'


RDM42 wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:

After Ultimate Intrigue, which heavily dealt courtly/espionage/urban adventure themes, the most obvious hole that needs to be filled is Ultimate Survival, which focuses on campaigns set within wildernesses.

Could cover various "natury" archetypes, maybe some new classes (a full bab dedicated shapeshifter or Tarzanesque feral person would work well with this theme), expanded item/spell/feat options for outdoorsy campaigns, environmental rules, and advice on running exploration or wilderness survival games.

'ultimate Wild'

We already have low level spells and magic items that trivialize exploration and wilderness survival.

Pathfinder doesn't really focus on outdoor survival when a Ring of Sustenance and Endure Elements make it a breeze.


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I actually think that makes it a good candidate for an 'Ultimate' book. Like how Horror Adventures gave a lot of suggestions and tricks for running a horror game in Pathfinder, which doesn't normally lend itself to horror. Ultimate Wilderness could give a lot of tips and rule alterations to make a wilderness survival game fun and challenging.

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