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All right! You know the DPR olympics? This is kind've like that. You may or may not know that I've been working on my own optimization formulae, and the community support has really helped to flesh this out. I'll include some links at the bottom but so far I have a damage formula and an actual scale to rate it with.
All numbers use either your PC stats or the Bestiary Monster Creation Table with an appropriate CR matching the PC's level.
10- 1 Round or lower
9- 2.5 Rounds
8- 4 Rounds
7- 5.5 Rounds
6- 7 Rounds
5- 8.5 Rounds
4- 10 Rounds
3- 11.5 Rounds
2- 13 Rounds
1- Anything Higher
So now it's time for accuracy. Contestants, take your mark! First let's lay down some ground rules. I want to test out the following formula:
- Accuracy Formula:100 - 5 * (Enemy Armor Class - Player Attack bonus)
- All entries must be Level 12 builds (Enemy Armor class of 27).
- They also must have an accuracy of at least 50%; anything lower would mean an average roll is a miss, and is therefore not optimized (in terms of accuracy).
- If the build normally applies some penalty like power attack feel free to include it; keeps the data realistic.
- If you target flat-footed or touch, it's assumed the numbers balance out based off other factors like damage. We can thank Scott Wilheim for that...
So go crazy! I want to see what the best accuracy is (I'm assuming 100%) and then see the next best thing. I'll be mathing and geeking out to crunch the numbers. Don't worry about getting the best accuracy; just share what you have because all numbers are useful.
Click here to see the thread where I worked out the damage scale!
Click here to see the original combat formula! It's pretty outdated but still some good points there. Yes, I posted that 762 posts ago.
Edit: If you break anything let me know, I'll see if I can fix the formula.
Bump
you don't really have any build rules, what are we allowed to use?
you don't really have any build rules, what are we allowed to use?
Anything you'd feasibly use for combat. I would say martial builds.
Let's assume 20 point buy; disregarding specific and special rules (like called shots), and two traits. Did I miss anything? Oh yeah, and as a L12 character you get 108,000 GP to work with.
He means paizo only or 3pp
He means paizo only or 3pp
Paizo products then.
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SO, I guess here's my entry...
Catfolk fighter 11/monk (master of many styles) 1 (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 3 47, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Combat 59)
LN Medium humanoid (catfolk)
Init +4; Senses low-light vision; Perception +9
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Defense
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AC 26, touch 15, flat-footed 21 (+11 armor, +4 Dex, +1 dodge)
hp 98 (12 HD; 1d8+11d10+24)
Fort +14, Ref +13, Will +9 (+3 vs. fear); +4 vs. effects that cause you to lose your grip on weapons, +2 bonus vs. sleep, paralysis, and stunning
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Offense
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Speed 60 ft.
Melee gauntlet (from armor) +24/+24/+19/+14 (1d3+15) or
. . unarmed strike +25/+25/+20/+15 (1d6+19) or
. . unarmed strike +23/+23/+18/+13 (1d6+16), unarmed strike +23/+23/+18/+13 (1d6+12) or
. . 2 claws +25 (1d4+11), gore +23 (1d6+9)
Special Attacks stunning fist (3/day, DC 17), weapon trainings (natural +4, close +3)
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Statistics
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Str 24, Dex 19, Con 14, Int 7, Wis 12, Cha 9
Base Atk +11; CMB +19; CMD 33 (37 vs. disarm, 37 vs. sunder)
Feats Boar Style[UC], Dragon Ferocity[UC], Dragon Style[UC], Feral Combat Training[UC], Following Step[APG], Greater Two-weapon Fighting, Greater Weapon Focus (claw), Improved Two-weapon Fighting, Improved Unarmed Strike, Multiattack, Step Up, Stunning Fist, Two-weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (claw), Weapon Specialization (claw)
Skills Acrobatics +17 (+29 to jump), Intimidate +7, Perception +9, Ride +2 (+7 regarding elephant-like creatures), Sense Motive +5, Swim +9
Languages Catfolk, Common
SQ armor training 3, cat's luck, fuse style, sprinter
Combat Gear quick runner's shirt[UE]; Other Gear +2 full plate, amulet of mighty fists +2, belt of physical might +4 (Str, Dex), boots of speed, cloak of resistance +3, gloves of dueling[APG], helm of the mammoth lord[UE], 850 gp
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Special Abilities
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Armor Training 3 (Ex) Worn armor -3 check penalty, +3 max DEX.
Boar Style Deal bludgeoning or slashing with unarmed, +2d6 if hit with two or more strikes.
Cat's Luck (1/day) (Ex) Can roll 2d20 for a Reflex save and take better result.
Dragon Ferocity +3, 1d4+7 rds Gain bonus on unarmed attacks, and you can cause opponents to be shaken
Dragon Style +2 vs. sleep, paralysis, and stun, first unarmed strike in a rd deals 1.5x Str, and can ignore difficult terrain/allies when charging.
Feral Combat Training (Claw) Use Improved Unarmed Strike feats with chosen natural weapon.
Following Step You may move 10' with Step Up, and still get a 5' step on your next turn.
Fuse Style (2 styles) (Ex) At 1st level, a master of many styles can fuse two of the styles he knows into a more perfect style. The master of many styles can have two style feat stances active at once. Starting a stance provided by a style feat is still a swift action, but whe
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Sprinter (Ex) +10 ft to speed when charge, run, or withdraw.
Step Up When a foe makes a 5 ft step away from you, you can move 5 ft to follow them.
Stunning Fist (3/day, DC 17) You can stun an opponent with an unarmed attack.
Stunning Fist Helper This is a dummy ability to add an extra entry for the stunning fist feat in another section of the statblock (since it is shown with a different name in the two places, we can't use sbName).
Weapon Training (Close) +3 (Ex) +3 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Close-in weapons
Weapon Training (Natural) +4 (Ex) +4 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Natural weapons
The attack routine is(ignore damage numbers in the thingy they don't include dragon style):
+25 Claw (1d6+20)
+25/+25 Hasted other Claw (1d6+17)
+23 Gore (1d6+11)
Then TWF unarmed strikes
+23/+23/+18/+18/+13/+13(1d6+15)
if at least 2 attacks hit, it does 2d6 extra damage, which is more than likely...
this thing will also be really hard to run away from.
the attack routine including a 99 or so % chance to inflict the 2d6 extra comes in at:
154.2 DPR
I could probably do better if I REALLY tried, but this is actually a semi-rounded build and not pure damage. (this doesn't have power attack, could also replace step up and such for more weapon focus on unarmed attacks)
SO, I guess here's my entry...
** spoiler omitted **...
Excellent! I should add now I'll also be testing the accuracy of a full attack, which uses the same formula but just multiplies all the percentages Full attacks do get quite low but the increased damage should compensate for it.
With an attack bonus of +25 on your claw that would make for an accuracy rate of 90%. Full attack accuracy ends up being 1.02% (You do get a score of 9 for damage though)
Thank you for your contribution!
stuffWith an attack bonus of +25 on your claw that would make for an accuracy rate of 90%. Full attack accuracy ends up being 1.02% (You do get a score of 10 for damage though)
shouldn't you mean the attacks(add the %'s altogether and divide them by number of attacks), otherwise it will lower the % of number of attacks greatly.
just pointing out, 4 attacks at 90% that do 25 damage is just as accurate as a single attack that hits for 100.
nothing about the single attack is inherently more stable, but your method gives the 4 attacks an accuracy of 65.6%
stuffWith an attack bonus of +25 on your claw that would make for an accuracy rate of 90%. Full attack accuracy ends up being 1.02% (You do get a score of 10 for damage though)shouldn't you mean the attacks(add the %'s altogether and divide them by number of attacks), otherwise it will lower the % of number of attacks greatly.
just pointing out, 4 attacks at 90% that do 25 damage is just as accurate as a single attack that hits for 100.
nothing about the single attack is inherently more stable, but your method gives the 4 attacks an accuracy of 65.6%
It's simply easier to compute. Plus, while the full attack accuracy may at first seem too low to realistically account for, when I have a few more builds up here I can get a better scale and it'll convert to a 10 point system.
It's designed to test how well a character can hit with a single attack, and the probability of hitting with a full attack. The DPR is insane but the accuracy is low so it all balanced out in the end I promise.
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Warpriest Archer
LG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +8; Senses Perception +14
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Defense
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AC 26, touch 18, flat-footed 20 (+7 armor, +2 deflection, +6 Dex, +1 natural)
hp 75 (12d8+12)
Fort +12, Ref +15, Will +13; +4 vs. effects that cause you to lose your grip on weapons
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Ranged +2 composite longbow +27/+27/+27/+22 (1d8+24/×3)
Special Attacks blessings 9/day (War: battle lust, war mind), fervor 8/day (4d6), sacred weapon (1d10, +3, 12 rounds/day), weapon training (sacred weapons)
Warpriest (Molthuni Arsenal Chaplain) Spells Prepared (CL 12th; concentration +14)
4th—divine power
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Statistics
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Str 14, Dex 27, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 7
Base Atk +9; CMB +17; CMD 31 (35 vs. disarm, 35 vs. sunder)
Feats Clustered Shots[UC], Deadly Aim, Greater Weapon Focus (longbow), Greater Weapon Specialization (longbow), Improved Precise Shot, Manyshot, Point Blank Master[APG], Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Quicken Blessing[ACG], Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus (longbow), Weapon Specialization (longbow)
Traits fate's favored
Skills Climb +8, Knowledge (religion) +15, Perception +14, Spellcraft +15, Swim +8
Languages Common
Other Gear +2 mithral kikko armor[UC], +2 composite longbow (+2 Str), bracers of archery, greater, efficient quiver, gloves of dueling[APG], 7,550 gp
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Tracked Resources
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Armor Attunement (1/day) - 0/1
Blessings (9/day) (Su) - 0/9
Fervor (4d6, 8/day) (Su) - 0/8
Sacred Weapon +3 (12 rounds/day) (Su) - 0/12
Weapon Attunement (1/day) - 0/1
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Special Abilities
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Blessings (9/day) (Su) Pool of power used to activate Blessing abilities.
Clustered Shots Total damage from full-round ranged attacks before applying DR
Deadly Aim -3/+6 Trade a penalty to ranged attacks for a bonus to ranged damage.
Fervor (4d6, 8/day) (Su) Standard action, touch channels positive/negative energy to heal or harm. Swift to cast spell on self.
Improved Precise Shot Ignore AC bonuses and miss chance from anything less than total cover/concealment.
Manyshot You can shoot two arrows as the first attack of a full attack action.
Point-Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Precise Shot You don't get -4 to hit when shooting or throwing into melee.
Quicken Blessing (War Blessing) Expend 2 uses of blessings to deliver selected blessing as swift action.
Rapid Shot You get an extra attack with ranged weapons. Each attack is at -2.
Sacred Weapon +3 (12 rounds/day) (Su) As a swift action, grant weapon enhancement bonus or certain powers.
Weapon Training (Sacred Weapons) +2 (Ex) +2 to hit and damage with your sacred weapons.
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The damage formula is h(d+s)+tchd
h = Chance to hit, expressed in a decimal percentage
d = Damage per hit. Average damage is assumed
s = Precision damage per hit (or other damage that isn't multiplied on a crit). Average damage is assumed
t = Chance to roll a critical threat, expressed as a decimal percentage
c = Critical hit bonus - 1. For example, x2 = 1, x3 = 2, x4 = 3
First attack including Manyshot
0.95*(28.5*2)+0.05*2*0.95*28.5 56.8575Rapid Shot and Extra Attack from Divine Power
2[(0.95*28.5)+0.05*2*0.95*28.5] = 59.565
Iterative Attack
0.8*28.5+0.05*2*0.8*28.5 = 25.08
Sum 141.5025
Character still has 2 feats unused and is using Automatic Bonus Progression, and still has ~7500 gold unspent. There is probably more room for optimization. Uses fervor to cast Divine Power. If you allow one more round for buffing (Sacred Weapon Enhancement Bonus Increase) DPR goes up to 159.8625.
Edit: Just noticed I incorrectly put the accuracy on the iterative as 0.8, it should be 0.9 because at a +22 the character only misses on a 1 or 2, which will increase the DPR some. I may have made a similar mistake on the Sacred Weapon Enhancement buff version, can't remember what numbers I used and didn't write them here. This is what I get for trying to do math late at night.
stuffIt's simply easier to compute. Plus, while the full attack accuracy may at first seem too low to realistically account for, when I have a few more builds up here I can get a better scale and it'll convert to a 10 point system.
It's designed to test how well a character can hit with a single attack, and the probability of hitting with a full attack. The DPR is insane but the accuracy is low so it all balanced out in the end I promise.
that's my point though, it reads as 1% but the mean to-hit of the guy is 68%, meaning the majority of the attack routine is likely to hit.
Seriously this adversely affects builds that rely on additional attacks.
BASICALLY, with this kind of ruling adding haste to your build lowers your overall "accuracy" even though you gain an extra attack and +1 to-hit.
besides I don't get the point, my calculated DPR is taking my builds maximum DPR and multiplying it by it's mean accuracy of 68%. Only 2 attacks are below 50% chance to-hit.
if you're looking for the chance for EVERY attack to land, then on a 1% chance, I do my DPR at 189.5
** spoiler omitted **
The way I'm doing this is kind've different. While adding haste lowers the Full Attack Accuracy, the Single Strike Accuracy is still there to get a basic "scope" of the attack roll bonus. While your accuracy does go down, you damage will likely go up significantly. That's just the way I'm going to do it, but I would likely do like you are if I was just doing accuracy.
My larger ambitions are a whole bunch of formulae to make like a spreadsheet of character stats.
If this backfires later I'll give you the right of "I told you so" While it does seem unfair for multiple attack builds they will be given generous points. For example yours was fairly optimized so 1% chance could come close to 8 points or something like that (since full attacks are hard to hit) and then your damage is 9 points. All out of 10 so in the end it shouldn't be that bad.
Edit: I forgot to account for Spell/Martial Hybrids. I'll assume three rounds of buffing beforehand to be fair. Otherwise they can't compete with full martials.
Edit II: I want to see how many results I can get but I think I have something that'll make it easier for TWFers and Monks. I'll put builds with more attacks than their BAB iterative in a different category so the points are a bit easier. For example, I'm planning a build that is focused purely on accuracy, and it looks like he'll have a full attack accuracy of 80% with two attacks which isn't fair to compare to 1% as that is good compared to the attacks.
welp... looks like I need to figure out the best way to do damage in a single attack for the other side of the spectrum then. (starts looking up wildshape forms with a lot of dice on a natural attack)
I'm not sure if it still works, it used to be a Cave Druid with Carnivorous Crystal Ooze.
Strongest single attack would be Carnivorous Crystal Ooze from Cave Druid with Vital Strike Chain, possible with a dip in barbarian to pick up the rage power that allows you to do max damage on an attack while using vital strike.
Also, I can't figure out how to mathematically express the chance to hit in the simplest terms but your proposed method is incorrect.
If my character has a +22 to hit against AC 25 he needs a 3 or better to hit, so he only misses on a 1 or 2.
By your formula:
100-5*(AC-to hit) would give 100-5*(25-22) = 100-5*3 = 85%
But this is wrong. He only misses on a 1 or 2, which is actually a 90% chance to hit. To correct this you should represent it as a decimal as:
1-(AC-to hit-1)/20 = 1-(25-22-1)/20 = 1-2/20 = 0.9
Each die number you miss on is a 5% chance to miss, so missing on a 1 and 2 is a 10% chance to miss or a 90% chance to hit. However, because a natural 1 is always a miss and a natural 20 is always a hit you have a maximum chance of 95% and minimum of 5% to hit, which is why even with a +27 to hit (such as the main attacks of my proposed character) he still only has a 0.95 chance to hit.
Also, I can't figure out how to mathematically express the chance to hit in the simplest terms but your proposed method is incorrect.
If my character has a +22 to hit against AC 25 he needs a 3 or better to hit, so he only misses on a 1 or 2.
By your formula:
100-5*(AC-to hit) would give 100-5*(25-22) = 100-5*3 = 85%
But this is wrong. He only misses on a 1 or 2, which is actually a 90% chance to hit. To correct this you should represent it as a decimal as:
1-(AC-to hit-1)/20 = 1-(25-22-1)/20 = 1-2/20 = 0.9Each die number you miss on is a 5% chance to miss, so missing on a 1 and 2 is a 10% chance to miss or a 90% chance to hit. However, because a natural 1 is always a miss and a natural 20 is always a hit you have a maximum chance of 95% and minimum of 5% to hit.
Thanks. I'll get around to tweaking that into a neat equation. In the meantime just use the actual probability.
so here's my druid wildshaper.
Human druid 8/fighter 4
N Huge humanoid (human)
Init +0; Senses low-light vision; Perception +18
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Defense
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AC 24, touch 8, flat-footed 24 (+10 armor, +6 natural, -2 size)
hp 86 (12 HD; 8d8+4d10+19)
Fort +11, Ref +3, Will +10 (+1 vs. fear); +4 vs. fey and plant-targeted effects
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Offense
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Speed 60 ft. (35 ft. in armor)
Melee bite +23 (12d8+23 plus grab)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks trample (4d6+21, DC 27), wild shape 3/day
Domain Spell-Like Abilities (CL 8th; concentration +11)
. . 6/day—fire bolt (1d6+4 fire)
Druid Spells Prepared (CL 8th; concentration +11)
. . 4th—cure serious wounds, grove of respite[APG], wall of fire[D]
. . 3rd—ash storm[UM], call lightning (DC 16), cure moderate wounds, mass feather step[APG], fireball[D] (DC 16)
. . 2nd—aboleth's lung[ARG] (DC 15), campfire wall[APG], cat's grace, flame blade, produce flame[D]
. . 1st—burning hands[D] (DC 14), cure light wounds, diagnose disease[UM], dream feast, entangle (DC 14), faerie fire
. . 0 (at will)—create water, detect magic, mending, purify food and drink (DC 13)
. . D Domain spell; Domain Fire (Ash domain subdomain)
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Statistics
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Str 33, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 7, Wis 16, Cha 7
Base Atk +10; CMB +23 (+27 grapple); CMD 33
Feats Combat Reflexes, Devastating Strike[UC], Improved Natural Attack (bite), Natural Spell, Vital Strike, Weapon Focus (bite), Weapon Specialization (bite), Wild Speech[UM]
Skills Climb +16, Fly -4, Handle Animal +2, Heal +7, Intimidate +2, Knowledge (nature) +5, Perception +18, Spellcraft +5, Survival +12, Swim +11
Languages Common, Druidic
SQ armor training 1, nature bond (Ash domain[APG]), nature sense, trackless step, wall of ashes, wild empathy, woodland stride
Other Gear +1 wild stoneplate[UE], amulet of mighty fists +3, belt of giant strength +6, boots of striding and springing, 12,550 gp
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Special Abilities
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Armor Training 1 (Ex) Worn armor -1 check penalty, +1 max DEX.
Combat Reflexes (1 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Devastating Strike Deal extra damage when using Vital Strike bonus
Druid Domain (Ash)
Fire Bolt 1d6+4 fire (6/day) (Sp) As a standard action, ranged touch attack deals fire dam to foe in 30 ft.
Grab: Bite (Huge) (Ex) You can start a grapple as a free action if you hit with the designated weapon.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Natural Spell You can cast spells while in Wild Shape.
Nature Sense (Ex) A druid gains a +2 bonus on Knowledge (nature) and Survival checks.
Trackless Step (Ex) You do not leave a trail as you move through natural surroundings.
Vital Strike Standard action: x2 weapon damage dice.
Wall of Ash (20' x 80', 8 minutes/day) (Su) Wall of ash blocks LOS, blinds anyone passing through and reveals adjacent invisible creatures.
Wild Empathy +8 (Ex) Improve the attitude of an animal, as if using Diplomacy.
Wild Shape (8 hours, 3/day) (Su) Shapeshift into a different creature one or more times per day.
Wild Speech Speak while in wild shape
Woodland Stride (Ex) Move through undergrowth at normal speed.
it's attack is +23 bite for (12d8+23)
next level it'd gain weapon training natural and improved vital strike. :/ it currently has 2 unused normal feats.
it's DPR against a CR 12 with 27 AC is 68.72, killing it in 2.3 rounds. though, i question the legality of being able to take all these feats based upon my wild shape form, but i'm simply assuming it works. it's accuracy is 80%
He also when he isn't biting people to death assisting the party by putting difficulty terrain everywhere and giving them the ability to move through it freely. he can do this while being a huge hippo, he also has 12.5k unspent for misc stuff.
Edit: Just noticed I incorrectly put the accuracy on the iterative as 0.8, it should be 0.9 because at a +22 the character only misses on a 1 or 2, which will increase the DPR some. I may have made a similar mistake on the Sacred Weapon Enhancement buff version, can't remember what numbers I used and didn't write them here. This is what I get for trying to do math late at night.
So, I have to correct myself again.
For some reason I started using AC 25 instead of AC 27.
A +22 against AC 27 requires a 5 or better to hit, missing on a 4 or less.
This indeed would be a 80% chance to hit and my original number is correct. I should really go to bed and stop trying to do math. Sorry everyone.
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Level 12 Dual Talented Human, Inspired Blade, Unchained drunken brute barbarian, Investigator.
I'm not sure this build will be helpful because it can do a lot of burst damage.
I'm not going to throw up the whole build but these Number from one of my builds that is currently level 8 may help. These are the level 12 numbers adhering to your build criteria as it is for PFS. The inclusion of possessed had is a little hopeful thinking.
This character was built to parry everything so the accuracy is over optimised but lets see how it goes.
[b]Buffing[b/]
With move action to drink potion from the barbarian in 3 rounds providing no long term buffs are up and using the swift action retrieve item from possessed hand you can drink 2 potions and 3 extracts in 3 rounds. Reduce person, Mutagen, Heroism, the others would likely be used for defensive buffs so I will say haste as a place holder. Alternatively, I can use my daily combined extract from the Admixture Vial.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------
Attack Bonus (+37) - Weapon +1, Furious, Keen, Rapier
9 BAB + 6 Dex + 2 Dex Mutagen + 5 Study + 2 Rage + 1 Possessed Hand + 1 Ioun Stone + 3(+1 Furious Weapon) + 2 Reduce Person + 2 Heroism +1 Haste +2 Smite(Baldric, Bane) + 1 Weapon Focus.
[b]Damage[b/]
1d4 + 9 Dex + 5 Study + 2 Rage + 1 Possessed Hand + 3(+1 Furious Weapon)+2 Smite(Baldric, Bane) + 2d6 Smite + 1d6 acid + 4d6 Studied Strike
24+29.5(precision)= 53.5
[b]Better optimised for damage[b/] - Weapon +1, Furious, Keen, Inspired Rapier
1d4 + 9 Dex + 5 Study +6 power attack + 2 Rage + 1 Possessed Hand + 3(+1 Furious Weapon)+2 Smite(Baldric, Bane) + 2d6 Smite + 1d6 acid + 4d6 Studied Strike + 2d8 inspired
31.5+38.5(precision)= 70
The AC for this character is 32 while raging. Lots of non combat gear, consumables and fun items. Saves are Fort 12, Ref 20, Will 11.
Dont have the time to setup a build right now, but i wonder... what is the most accurate uRogue build? And in that case can you assume the first strike is a hit for debilitating injury to lower the targets AC to you?
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So, let's examine a basic two-handed Investigator build. Basically because I like Investigators. It's sorta a scaled up version of my current PC (with a few changes for DPR...like a Falchion).
Half-Orc Investigator (Empiricist) 12
NG Medium Humanoid
Init +3; Senses Perception +23
DEFENSE
AC 36/37, touch 16/15, flat-footed 32/33 (+9 Armor, +3/2 Dex, +4 Shield, +2 Deflection, +7/9 Natural Armor, +1 Insight)
HP 99 (12d8+36) + 15 False Life (1d10+10)
Fort +14, Ref +19, Will +16; +4 vs. illusions allowing disbelief
OFFENSE
Spd 20 ft
Melee +2 Falchion +28/+25/+20 (2d4+23+6/15-20)
4-Armed Gargoyle Attacks: 5 Claws +27 (1d8+18+6), Bite +27 (1d6+18+6), Gore +27 (1d4+18+6)
ALCHEMIST EXTRACTS
4th: Monstrous Physique II x3, Blur + Shield,
3rd: Displacement, Haste, Heroism x2, Fly,
2nd: Alter Self, Barkskin x2, False Life, Invisibility x2,
1st: Heightened Awareness x2, Shield x3, Longarm, Enlarge Person,
STATISTICS
Str 26*, Dex 16*, Con 14*, Int 20/18*, Wis 10, Cha 8
BAB +9; CMB +17; CMD 33
Feats Endurance, Medium Armor Proficiency, Power Attack, Furious Focus, Extra Investigator Talent x3,
Skills: Acrobatics +5, Climb +10, Bluff +19/13, Diplomacy +19, Disable Device +29, Knowledge (Arcana) +23, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +9/23*, Knowledge (Local) +23, Knowledge (Planes) +23, Knowledge (Religion) +23, Knowledge (All Others) +12, Lingusitics +10, Perception +23/29, Sense Motive +19, Spellcraft +10, Stealth +5, Use Magic Device +9/21*,
Languages Common, Orc, 4 more languages,
Traits Fate's Favored, Student of Philosophy,
Special racial features (shaman's apprentice, sacred tattoo, orc blood weapon familiarity, skilled), investigator talents (mutagen, quick study, sickening offensive, amazing inspiration, combat inspiration, combine extracts, expanded inspiration, infusion), inspiration +1d8 11/day, studied combat +6, studied strike +5d6,
Combat Gear 3k worth of various stuff,
Gear +2 Keen Falchion, +2 Amulet of Mighty Fists, +2 Ring of Protection, +3 Breastplate, Belt of Physical Perfection +2, Headband of Vast Intelligence +4 (Know-Dungeoneering, UMD), Cloak of Resistance +4, dusty rose prism ioun stone, masterwork thieves tools, 175 gp,
That's a little over 110.24 with Haste on his normal attack routine, 65.72 without Haste.
And 193.99 DPR when using Monstrous Physique and Haste. Sans Haste it's 165.85 DPR.
All assuming Studied Combat, Mutagen, Heightened Awareness, Heroism, and Barkskin...but those buffs all last two hours and can be done at least twice a day (more with some slight Extract rearrangement). And, for the record, he sickens every foe he hits.
Did you remember to add the deific obedience to Pharasma for an added bonus of +2 sacred to attack with daggers? ^^;
- An issue with your formula: Accuracy cannot be higher than 95% without either the ability to reroll or the ability to hit on a natural 1.
- Attack values > +26 are only relevant for iterative attacks. A value not difficult to obtain on even 3/4 bab classes by 12th level.
With a little optimization, I could probably have already managed +26 to hit on the iterative attacks of a 3/4 bab character.
That leaves the Arcane Accuracy arcana, giving Intelligence as an insight bonus to attack rolls.
I would suggest going CR +2 or even CR +4 to obtain results where characters miss on results >1
DEFENSE
AC 32, touch 27, Flat Footed 18 (+8 dex, +6 dodge, +4 AC, +2 nat, +2 def)
Hp 99
Fort +17, Ref +18, Will +19
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft. (6 squares)
Melee +3 scimitar +26/+21 (1d6+12/18-20/x2)
+5 keen scimitar +28/+23 (1d6+17/15-20/x2) – arcane strike + arcane pool
With only Mage armor + Heroism (Spell Blending arcana gets both)
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3 rounds to buff, at level 12? It's like you're asking for a battle cleric.
Dwarf cleric of Torag.
Str 26 (w/belt & righteous might), Wis 22 (w/headband), others not relevant to this
Feats: weapon focus, quicken spell, blessed hammer, encouraging spell, power attack, 1 more.
Traits: fates favored, magical lineage (bloodsworn retribution)
Buffs: encouraging bloodsworn retribution (+6 morale attack), quickened divine favor (+4 luck attack & damage), righteous might (+4 sacred strength, size to large), quickened weapon of awe (+2 untyped damage), touch of law domain power
Notable equipment: +4 warhammer, +4 belt of giant strength, +4 headband of vast wisdom, boots of speed, pale green cracked prism ioun stone.
Attack: Bab +9/+4, Str +8, enhancement +4, morale +6, luck +4, size -1, haste +1, competence +1, power attack -3. +29/+29/+24. Thanks to touch of law the rolls are all 11: accuracy is 100% against AC 35 or less in the first round.
Damage: 2d6 +4 enhancement +4 luck +12 strength +9 power attack +2 weapon of awe. 2d6 + 31, average 38 per attack, DPR 114 per full attack connecting.
I may have gone overboard on accuracy (making Snowlilly's point I guess) and it might be possible to drop some of that, and with saved resources squeeze out enough damage to make for a 1 round kill. As it is a 2 round kill on the theoretical CR 12 (160 hp, AC 27) with accuracy exactly 100% in the first round.
I will say personally, I consider any build that needs more than 1 round of buffing to not really be representative. With a caveat that if you can buff as something other than a move or standard action you can include that on subsequent rounds, listing that separately as I did on my war priest build (which used a swift action to apply Sacred Weapon Enhancement bonus) on his second round of attacking (after using Fervor to buff with Divine Power).
Personally I think the best way to see what a character can do is to give that character 3 rounds of combat and total the damage after 3 rounds to see total potential damage output. 3 to 5 rounds is usually the length of combat, and rounds spend buffing (and not doing damage) will obviously hurt the 3 round total damage output. This helps to mitigate a "nova" characters damage output by showing that despite being able to do something crazy once in a while they can't keep up that kind of damage output, which is something people building characters should also make note of so everyone can clearly understand the builds presented. Long duration buffs (minutes/level or longer) can be included as you can reasonably have those up before most combats, but round/level buffs should count against your 3 turns of combat if you need to spend a round in combat to do it normally.
I also think DPR numbers should be presented against equal CR creatures (CR 12) and creatures above this, at say CR+3 (CR 15, which has an average AC of 30.
Edit: To comply with this precedent my characters 3 round damage against AC 27 is 464.69. Against AC 30 it is 443.46. Again this is using Fervor to cast Divine Power on round 1 and using Sacred Weapon to increase enhancement bonus on rounds 2 and 3.
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I'm too lazy to do it, but a kitsune fox form urban (increase dex) barbarian with dex-to-damage on its one bite (either by an unchained rogue dip or slashing grace or agile AoMF) probably performs very well here. You should be able (between the tiny form and barbarian and just naturally cranking dex) to get that bite really high.
I've made a very simple Damage Calculator for people to use here.
You can get your full round total DPR by changing the appropriate values and adding the damage per attack together. I didn't want to write enough to account for things like haste and rapid shot so you'll have to do each attack you get separately. I did account for Manyshot since it is a peculiar case where you get to arrows worth of damage on your 1st attack, but only one can crit or get precision damage. Oh, I also didn't account for if your chance to hit goes below 0.05, but I doubt it's an issue since were trying to optimize, I figured its unlikely to be necessary to account for that.
Please let me know if I need to make any changes, I've protected all the important bits (I think).
Edit: I think I was able to account for the less than 0.05 chance to hit by nesting some if statements. Let me know if you get any strange results.
Double Edit: Can someone please confirm that the above url link is correct and that they can edit, please and thank you?
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.95(1d6+1d6+17)+(.3)(.95)(1d6+17) = 28.6425
.8(1d6+1d6+17)+(.3)(.95)(1d6+17) = 25.0425
DPR = 53.685
Acc = .76
1 round buffing + spell combat (arcane accuracy (+6 to-hit), black blade strike, haste, spell combat)
Spell is assumed to be Arcane Mark
,95(1d6+1d6+17)+(.3)(.95)(1d6+17) = 24.6425
,95(1d6+1d6+17)+(.3)(.95)(1d6+17) = 24.6425
,95(1d6+1d6+17)+(.3)(.95)(1d6+17) = 24.6425
,95(1d6+1d6+17)+(.3)(.95)(1d6+17) = 24.2645
DPR = 98.57
Acc = 81.45 (highest possible on 4 attacks)
Pretty safe to assume spells with a duration measured in hours are always up. Mage Armor has a 24 hour duration, Heroism has a four hour duration.
Sitting at the tabletop I would typically pull higher numbers. Minute/level buffs would have a 12 - 24 minute duration. More than long enough to last multiple encounters, with enough spell slots to refresh 2-3 times, even with diminished casting. Elemental Body II and Blade Tutor's Spirit both come to mind as spells I would keep up at this level in a typical dungeon crawl. Arcane Accuracy becomes pointless, +4 size bonus to dexterity, swift action freed up for Arcane Strike.
.95(1d6+1d6+22)+(.3)(.95)(1d6+22) = 34.8175
.95(1d6+1d6+22)+(.3)(.95)(1d6+22) = 34.8175
.95(1d6+1d6+22)+(.3)(.95)(1d6+22) = 34.8175
.95(1d6+1d6+22)+(.3)(.95)(1d6+22) = 34.8175
DPR = 139.27
Acc = 81.45
Higher numbers appear if you assume spell combat is being used for more than just an extra attack. With an intensified Shocking Grasp, the bladebound kensai manages a 1 round kill with average damage and the highest possible accuracy for the given number of attacks/round.
Intensified Shocking Grasp
(1-.5^4)(35)+(.3)(.95)(35) = 45.6 DPR
I've made a very simple Damage Calculator for people to use here.
I think, I have a >better one< but it wasn't made by me, and I actually haven't been using it for my calculation.
I decided to upload it since you have one close to it.
edit: just tested it a bit, doesn't work when on google docs, so I guess see if you can download it. it's a xlsx file and runs fine as a file. to download it, go to file and download as. if it still doesn't work, i'll take it down.
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Human Fighter 12 (Two Weapon Warrior) VMC Barbarian
My Build
Stats
STR(SMASH) 26
Dex 17
Con 14
Int/Wis/Cha 7
Gear +2 Impact Bastard Sword
+2 Impact Bastard Sword
Belt of Physical Might (STR, DEX) +4
Quick Runners shirt
Potion of Enlarge Person CL 1
Rage Power
Reckless Abandon (Ex)
Benefit: While raging, the barbarian can take a –1 penalty to AC to gain a +1 bonus on attack rolls. The AC penalty increases by –1 and the attack roll bonus increases by +1 at 4th level and every four levels thereafter.
Feats
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword)
Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword)
- Greater
Weapon Specialization (Bastard Sword)
- Greater
Power Attack -4/+8
Two Weapon Fighting
-Improved
-Greater
Double Slice
Two Weapon Rend
Class Abilities that are relevant
Twin Blades (Ex)
At 5th level, a two-weapon warrior gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls when making a full-attack with two weapons or a double weapon. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels after 5th.
This ability replaces Weapon Training 1.
This grants a plus 2 on attacks and damage during a full attack
Improved Balance (Ex)
At 11th level, the attack penalties for fighting with two weapons are reduced by –1 for a two-weapon warrior. Alternatively, he may use a one-handed weapon in his off-hand, treating it as if it were a light weapon with the normal light weapon penalties.
This ability replaces Armor Training 3.
This lets me treat the bastard sword in the offhand as a light weapon, only taking a minus 2 on attacks.
Rage
+4 moral bonus to STR and CON
14 Rounds
Attack routine:
1 round to buff, drinking the potion of enlarge person
STR becomes 34 (22(Base) +4(Belt) +4(Rage) +2(Size)) for a modifier of +11
First attack/First TWF attack
+12(BAB) +11(STR) +2(Enhancement) +2(Feats) -4(Power Attack) +4(Rage Power) -2(TWF) +2(Twin Blades) = +27
Second Iterative/Second TWF attack
+7(BAB)+11+2+2-4+4-2+2 = +22
Third Iterative/Third TWF attack
+2+11+2+2-4+4-2+2 = +17
Damage
Main Hand
3D8+11(STR)+4(feats)+2(Enhancement)+2(Twin Blades)+8(Power Attack) = Average per hit 39 Damage
Offhand
3D8+11+4+2+2+4(Power Attack) = Average per hit 35 Damage
Rend
1d10+16 = Average 21 Damage
Assuming all attacks hit the Average DPR is 243
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Human Fighter 12 (Two Weapon Warrior) VMC Barbarian
My Build ** spoiler omitted **Assuming all attacks hit the Average DPR is 243
Actual DPR by calculator (assuming everything is legal and done properly, I didn't check, just input the math) is 185.96. For the record.
..
.
Oh, and actually, the calculator for my above Investigator build's DPR was pretty bad, so redoing it, I get the following:
92.04 normal attack, 56.64 without Haste.
222.16 in gargoyle form with Haste, and about 193 without Haste.
Deadmanwalking I have a question. In your your post where you described your character it shows you having 5 claw attacks on 4 armed gargoyle, how is that possible?
Also when I do the calculation for your attack with 5 claws, one bit, and one gore all at +27 to hit with 1d8+24 and 20x2 the DPR I calculated was ~199. One attack is ~28.4 damage, 7 times that is ~199.
Actual DPR by calculator (assuming everything is legal and done properly, I didn't check, just input the math) is 185.96. For the record.Human Fighter 12 (Two Weapon Warrior) VMC Barbarian
My Build ** spoiler omitted **Assuming all attacks hit the Average DPR is 243
he did put assuming they all hit.
which is not how this all works
DPR taking into account chances to hit and crit seems to be
215.2 DPR, assuming hit to-hit and damage values are correct.
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Deadmanwalking I have a question. In your your post where you described your character it shows you having 5 claw attacks on 4 armed gargoyle, how is that possible?
Haste. Gives an extra natural attack.
Also when I do the calculation for your attack with 5 claws, one bit, and one gore all at +27 to hit with 1d8+24 and 20x2 the DPR I calculated was ~199. One attack is ~28.4 damage, 7 times that is ~199.
I was surprised too. Maybe I put it in wrong the second time? That seems possible. If so, sorry about that.
And actually, one's 1d6 and one 1d4, which drops it to 196 or so. And 6 of that doesn't double on a crit, which drops it to 194 (165 or so without Haste). Yeah, that looks much more correct. I must've done something wrong last time.
he did put assuming they all hit.
which is not how this all works
True enough. Just noting.
DPR taking into account chances to hit and crit seems to be
215.2 DPR, assuming hit to-hit and damage values are correct.
Aw, crap. I forgot the Rend. I was clearly really tired last night. Sorry.
Actual DPR by calculator (assuming everything is legal and done properly, I didn't check, just input the math) is 185.96. For the record.Human Fighter 12 (Two Weapon Warrior) VMC Barbarian
My Build ** spoiler omitted **Assuming all attacks hit the Average DPR is 243
he did put assuming they all hit.
which is not how this all works
DPR taking into account chances to hit and crit seems to be
215.2 DPR, assuming hit to-hit and damage values are correct.
And assuming that's correct his 3 round damage is 430.4, since he spends a round buffing (by drinking a potion). His damage output would actually be higher for 3 rounds if he simply didn't buff.
First off, I'm not really sure the following build is what you're looking for here, but at least this thread seemed to make it worthwhile for me to turn an old idea into a proper build limited to Paizo stuff, and hopefully I can get some feedback while also helping out with the gathering of data for MageHunter.
The reason I'm doubting the suitability of the build - "Lil' Miss Piggy Murder Munchkin" - is because she's kinda silly IMO, sacrificing far more mobility, versatility and durability for overkill full attack DPR than I would deem practical and worthwhile in a real game. In other words, be warned: Ms Piggy is one damn ugly and stupid glass cannon, which I foresee quite a few people will think simply reeks of sweaty cheese "Hors d'âge". But AFAICT she definitely adheres to the RAW in relevant updated books and current FAQ items. (And speaking of, I urge anyone wondering about Ms Piggy's many claw attacks to look under the "OFFENSE" and "Attack Sources" headings in the build summary spoiler below).
LN Large female humanoid (shapechanger, skinwalker)
(Values while in bloodrage and Dragon Style stance, using rage mutagen and boots of speed.)
Initiative +6; Senses Perception +21
DEFENSE
AC 22, touch 13, flat-footed 19 (9 armor, 2 dex, 1 trait, 2 deflection, 1 dodge, -2 rage, -1 size)
HP 135 (10+8d10+3d8 +60 con, +8 favored class)
Fort +19, Ref +12, Will +11; +4 vs spell, SLA, (Su); +2 vs sleep, paralysis
OFFENSE
Speed 60 ft. (can run, charge and withdraw through allies and difficult terrain)
Melee (Power Attack, witch hunter) abyssal dragon claw +24 (2d6+42), 2 abyssal claws +24 (2d6+35), 2 claws +24 (1d6+35), bite +23 (1d8+25), gore +23 (1d8+25), sting +24 (1d6+26 plus poison) and 2 hooves +18 (1d6+15) - OR - dragon unarmed strike +23 (3d6+42), unarmed strikes +23/+18 (3d6+35), 2 abyssal claws +19 (2d6+29), bite +18 (1d8+15), gore +18 (1d8+15), sting +19 (1d8+16 plus poison) and 2 hooves +18 (1d6+15)
Space 10 ft. Reach 10 ft.
Attack Abilities and Special Attacks Combat Reflexes (3 AoOs/round), Greater Trip, poison, sneak attack 1d6, Vicious Stomp
Abyssal Bloodline and Rage Powers abyssal claws, demonic bulk, superstition, witch hunter
STATISTICS
Str 38 18 base, 2 race, 2 level, 4 belt, 4 rage, 6 mutagen, 2 size
Dex 14 13 base, 1 level, 2 belt, -2 size
Con 21 13 base, 2 race, 2 belt, 4 rage
Int 5 7 base, -2 mutagen
Wis 16 14 base, 2 headband
Cha 5 7 base, -2 race
Bab +10, CMB +26 (using AoMF +29, trip +33), CMD 41 (43 vs trip)
Class and Feat Progression
1 BR 1: Extra Feature (hooves), Improved Unarmed Strike
2 AL 1: Brew Potion, Throw Anything
3 AL 2: Dirty Figthing
4 MK 1: Dragon Style, Stunning Fist
5 BR 2: Dragon Ferocity, Feral Combat Training (claws)
6 BR 3: -
7 BR 4: Improved Trip
8 BR 5: Combat Style Master
9 BR 6: Greater Trip, Power Attack
10 BR 7: -
11 BR 8: Extra Discovery (second vestigial arm)
12 FR 1: Combat Reflexes, Vicious Stomp
Item Cracked Opalescent White Pyramid in Wayfinder: Weapon Focus (claws)
Traits Defender of the Society, Reactionary
Gear furious amulet of mighty fists, +3 breastplate, +2 ring of protection, +2 cloak, belt (+4 Str, +2 Con, Dex), +2 Wis headband, boots of speed, eyes of the eagle, fleshwarped scorpion's tail (attached), pelt of the beast (bear), cracked opalescent white pyramid (claws) in wayfinder, cracked dusty rose prism, 500 gp
Attack bonus +24/+23/+18 10/5 bab, 14 str, 2 AoMF, 1/0 fleshwarped scorpion's tail, 1/0 Weapon Focus, 1 haste, -3 Power Attack, -1 size
Damage bonus +42/+35/+26/25/+15 28/21/14/7 str, 2 AoMF, 1/0 fleshwarped scorpion's tail, 9/6/3 Power Attack, 3 Witch Hunter
Trip CMB +33 10 bab, 14 str, 4 feats, 2 AoMF, 1 Weapon Focus, 1 haste, 1 size
Attack Sources
3 Abyssal Claws abyssal bloodline, boots of speed (haste)
2 Claws OR 2 unarmed strikes pelt of the beast, 2 x vestigial arm discovery; monk unarmed strikes (see second full attack option under "Offense" above)
1 Bite pelt of the beast
1 Gore ragebred skinwalker bestial feature
2 Hooves Extra Feature (hooves)
1 Sting fleshwarped scorpion's tail
Like most abyssal bloodragers, Ms Piggy is about as difficult to hit as your average barn, and she also lacks the ability to cast any defensive spells to compensate for her low AC due to her abyss-mal (pun intended) Cha and Int. OTOH, despite being borderline TO, her saves are actually rather good, mostly thanks to her decent Dex and Wis, multiclassing and superstition. Especially the relatively high Wis is primarily there in order to make her auto-succeed on any Will saves provoked by her rage mutagen (DC 15 (Su) ability) when taking damage, as I felt ignoring those saves, frequent in a real game, would put her squarely in the TO category.
Anyway, her actions and DPR during an opening round of combat should look something like the following if average CR 12 enemies are within her 10 feet reach (I'm using this compilation of average monster CMD, which should include close to all monsters published by Paizo so far):
2. Free activates boots of speed
3. Free enters Dragon Style stance
4. Free enters bloodrage
5. Full-round full attack (not including poison or sneak attack, results rounded down to nearest .05):
5a. trip (claw): +33 vs average CMD 36, 90% success chance = enemy AC lowered to 23.4
5b. Greater Trip AoO (abyssal dragon claw): .9((.95 x 49) + (.05 x 1 x 49)) = 44.1 DP
5c. Vicious Stomp AoO (abyssal claw): .9((.95 x 42) + (.05 x 1 x 42)) = 37.8 DPR
5d. abyssal claw: (.95 x 42) + (.05 x 1 x 42) = 42 DPR
5e. abyssal claw: (.95 x 42) + (.05 x 1 x 42) = 42 DPR
5f. abyssal claw (haste): (.95 x 42) + (.05 x 1 x 42) = 42 DPR
5g. claw: (.95 x 38.5) + (.05 x 1 x 38.5) = 38.5 DPR
5h. bite: (.95 x 29.5) + (.05 x 1 x 29.5) = 29.5 DPR
5i. gore: (.95 x 29.5) + (.05 x 1 x 29.5) = 29.5 DPR
5j. sting: (.95 x 29.5) + (.05 x 1 x 29.5) = 29.5 DPR
5k. hoof: (.75 x 18.5) + (.05 x .75 x 18.5) = 14.55 DPR
5l. hoof: (.75 x 18.5) + (.05 x .75 x 18.5) = 14.55 DPR
364 TOTAL DPR / ≈0.44 ROUNDS TO KILL / ≈2.27 KILLS PER ROUND
This should probably be slightly lower, since the average monster CMD value isn't adjusted for the increased CMD vs trip quite a few CR 12 monsters have, and I'm way too lazy to research and include that value or the probability of facing a CR 12 monster flat out immune to trips. I guess 364 is decent "on paper DPR" for a build limited to Paizo options, and maybe even very high for such a build with also more than 80% of levels in martial classes (ie classes with less than 6/9 spell/power/extract progression)?
I don't think I've really looked around in the "DPR olympics" thread for years so I might be wrong here, but wasn't there a synth based build with similar DPR numbers already at 10th level?
Anyways, accuracy:
b. Greater Trip AoO (abyssal dragon claw): 100 - 5(23.4-24) = 103
c. Vicious Stomp AoO (abyssal claw): 100 - 5(23.4-24) = 103
d. abyssal claw: 100 - 5(23.4-24) = 103
e. abyssal claw: 100 - 5(23.4-24) = 103
f. abyssal claw (haste): 100 - 5(23.4-24) = 103
g. claw: 100 - 5(23.4-24) = 103
h. bite: 100 - 5(23.4-23) = 98
i. gore: 100 - 5(23.4-23) = 98
j. sting: 100 - 5(23.4-24) = 103
k. hoof: 100 - 5(23.4-18) = 73
l. hoof: 100 - 5(23.4-18) = 73
942/10 non-AoOs + .9(6/2 AoOs) = 96.9 AVERAGE ACCURACY
As can be seen in the calculation above, I reduced the +3 average accuracy gain from the two AoOs by 10%, since there's a 10% probability Ms Piggy's trip fails and these AoOs aren't triggered. (I've also reduced the -4 penalty to AC vs melee from being prone to -3.6 due to that same 10% trip failure probability, as can be seen in the DPR calculations.) And again, the above accuracy should probably be slightly lower, since only the average general CMD and not the unknown average CMD/immunity ratio vs trip of CR 12 monsters has been taken into account.
Ms Piggy can probably be greatly improved by someone more talented than myself, especially since I now realize I completely missed the 3 prep rounds and thought only 10 min/level buffs would be allowed. And Ms Piggy's opening round also has a swift action to spare for... *scratches head* Uh, for something, I guess...?
3 rounds to buff, at level 12?
This seems very excessive and likely takes the DPR numbers even further from the average of a real game. I recommend lowering this to 1 round at most, or perhaps to use the average DPR of "with 3 rounds of buff" and "with no rounds of buff".
what ever happened to this magehunter?