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A masterwork backpack makes you treat your strength score 1 higher for carrying capacity purposes.
So imagine the following scenario...
A person with a strength of 12 is wearing equipment and carrying a masterwork backpack with 1 lb. of stuff in it. The total weight is 50 lb. He's carrying a light load.
He drops the backpack, losing the 1 lb. of stuff plus the 4 lb. of backpack. Now he is carrying a medium load and suffers speed and armor check penalties.
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you're off balance now without the backpack on your back stabilizing you. :P
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The backpack can be totally empty and you still gain its benefits.
Yeah, its weird.
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There's a very minor antigravity enchantment on each pack, making you slightly lighter while wearing it.
If it helps, I have yet to see someone gain more carrying capacity then a basic kit weighs.
There's also the matter that if the +1 strength difference of carrying capacity is 2 pounds (especially in the case of completely-dumped strength), then there is no benefit of having a Masterwork Backpack compared to a regular backpack.
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A masterwork backpack makes you treat your strength score 1 higher for carrying capacity purposes.
So imagine the following scenario...
A person with a strength of 12 is wearing equipment and carrying a masterwork backpack with 1 lb. of stuff in it. The total weight is 50 lb. He's carrying a light load.
He drops the backpack, losing the 1 lb. of stuff plus the 4 lb. of backpack. Now he is carrying a medium load and suffers speed and armor check penalties.
Woah. Never thought of of this until this moment:
Since magic items must be masterwork, a Handy Haversack increases your carrying capacity by 1 str in addition to it's other benefits.
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Woah. Never thought of of this until this moment:
Since magic items must be masterwork, a Handy Haversack increases your carrying capacity by 1 str in addition to it's other benefits.
No it doesn't. Only armor, weapons, and shields have to be masterwork before you can enchant them. No other item type has that requirement.
Also, the masterwork backpack didn't even exist when the handy haversack was created. Assuming the haversack includes the masterwork backpacks bonus is wrong on multiple levels.
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An individual haversack could very reasonably be considered to be masterwork as well, not that the difference is too important. This would be a house rule, but a fairly innocuous one.
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A haversack IS a type of backpack. The big difference is that a haversack has only one shoulder strap.
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A haversack IS a type of backpack. The big difference is that a haversack has only one shoulder strap.
It also "appears to be well made" for what that's worth.
The question is, though, if a Handy Haversack isn't masterwork, why isn't it masterwork? How can I have a masterwork Handy Haversack? Would purchasing a Darkleaf Cloth Handy Haversack (3865gp, 2.5#) be the only way to get a masterwork Handy Haversack? Do I have to just settle for a Darkleaf Cloth Minor Bag of Holding (2125gp, 1.5#) instead?
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From the PRD description of the Handy Haversack
"A backpack of this sort appears to be well made, well used, and quite ordinary. It has two side pouches, each of which appears large enough to hold about a quart of material. In fact, each is like a bag of holding and can actually hold material of as much as 2 cubic feet in volume or 20 pounds in weight. The large central portion of the pack can contain up to 8 cubic feet or 80 pounds of material. Even when so filled, the backpack always weighs only 5 pounds."
While I appreciate adherence to Rule 0 (Always use the interpretation of the rule that is least favorable to the player), it seems pretty cut-and-dry that the Handy Haversack is, indeed, a backpack.
Strangely enough, the common backback is not actually a backpack, but is instead a knapsack.
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A masterwork backpack makes you treat your strength score 1 higher for carrying capacity purposes.
So imagine the following scenario...
A person with a strength of 12 is wearing equipment and carrying a masterwork backpack with 1 lb. of stuff in it. The total weight is 50 lb. He's carrying a light load.
He drops the backpack, losing the 1 lb. of stuff plus the 4 lb. of backpack. Now he is carrying a medium load and suffers speed and armor check penalties.
In a world where Pathfinder writers had a larger amount of space to write their item descriptions, the masterwork backpack description would likely say "When wearing a masterwork backpack, treat your Strength score as +1 higher than normal when calculating your carrying capacity for items packed in the backpack."
That is not the world we live in.
No, it is not the world we live in.
Good thing too, because "when calculating your carry capacity for items placed in the backpack" is nonsensical under the Pathfinder RPG ruleset.
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If you want a masterwork Handy Haver[back/knap/ruck]sack, just pay 50gp more for it like any other masterwork tool. Or maybe 48gp, as that's the difference between a standard and a masterwork backpack, but doing it on the cheap like that would make it 2 lbs heavier.
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Honestly, while I do say a haversack is a backpack, I'm opposed to the ability to make it masterwork... precisely because it increases the frequency of the paradox in my OP. Since it always weighs 5 lb. you will come across it any time there is a 5 lb. gap between the "Medium" load at one strength and the "Light" load at the next - which is the case at every strength score above 12. Having light loads in the masterwork backpack is what causes the problem, and the Handy Haversack makes everything that fits a light load.
A masterwork backpack makes you treat your strength score 1 higher for carrying capacity purposes.
So imagine the following scenario...
A person with a strength of 12 is wearing equipment and carrying a masterwork backpack with 1 lb. of stuff in it. The total weight is 50 lb. He's carrying a light load.
He drops the backpack, losing the 1 lb. of stuff plus the 4 lb. of backpack. Now he is carrying a medium load and suffers speed and armor check penalties.
Woah. Never thought of of this until this moment:
Since magic items must be masterwork, a Handy Haversack increases your carrying capacity by 1 str in addition to it's other benefits.
No it doesn't. a Handy Haversack is not a backpack. It's properties subsume that of a mwk backpack which works only because the assumption is that you're using it to stow the bulk of your gear.
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...
No it doesn't. a Handy Haversack is not a backpack. It's properties subsume that of a mwk backpack which works only because the assumption is that you're using it to stow the bulk of your gear.
That is a very questionable assumption. An 8 Str character gets good use out of a MW backpack because it is effectively a weightless bag, despite most of their weight being in the form of clothes, armor and magic items i.e. things that do not go in the bag. A 14 Str Archery based fighter in fullplate will likewise use up most of their weight capacity elsewhere. All of these factors are in play both before and after Haversacks get bought.
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You think that's fun? Take a bag and put it on a little guy and watch his carrying capacity/bench press limit go up a couple of pounds. Next, take that same bag and put it on a bigger guy, and you could see his carrying capacity/bench press limit increase by THOUSANDS of pounds!
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So I am guessing most people are not familiar with what a good, structured backpack can do. If it is set up right, an item doesn't actually have to go IN the backpack to benefit from it. If for instance, your belt that your weapons are connected to is also hooked to the backpack, or anything strapped to it on the outside, or really anything you are carrying is connected to it in some way, it makes a significant difference in how much you can carry because of the way it balances and spreads out the load. Obviously we can all think of cases where its silly, but they aren't as extreme as you might think. And lets just say thank goodness the rules don't require that kind of detail tracking of materials to for instance decide which pouch on which side of the pack, your belt or pouches you have things in to keep track of encumbrance.
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Paizo writes questionable rules, film at 11.
Paizo writes questionable rules, film at 11.
More of a matter of players trying to treat rules in a questionable way on this one.
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Paizo writes questionable rules, film at 11.More of a matter of players trying to treat rules in a questionable way on this one.
Or a matter of players trying to treat rules in a consistent manner, which some view as questionable.
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Okay, okay, I want all of you to stop what you're doing and realize that this is a passionate argument on a forum that has gone on for at least three days...about backpacks.
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And?
....
Fair point.
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And?....
Fair point.
Yeah, I'm more a duffelbag person too.
How do people feel about riding saddles?
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They kinda chafe, and are very uncomfortable.
Additionally, the halfling keeps on trying to climb into it.
yeah... i keep looking in here expecting some kind of drama or some kind of interesting thing, and nope, just more backpacks.
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Okay, okay, I want all of you to stop what you're doing and realize that this is a passionate argument on a forum that has gone on for at least three days...about backpacks.
Are you somehow implying we cannot have extended passionate arguments about innocuous minute details in the rules? Because if so, welcome to the internet, and this forum.
Now what if we put spikes on the masterwork backpack and use it for an extra attack?
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A book on history I bought from my local general goods store happened tk contain earth-shattering knowledge lost from eons past, because it gave me enough of a circumstance bonus to my Knowledge roll in order to push it that high.
It cost me 1gp.
...
you've forgotten the rules which stipulate that you calculate armor by encumbrance unless weak or carrying a lot of gear.
...
I have literally no idea what you are talking about so...citation needed?
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You essentially use whichever is worse: The penalties accrued from the sum weight of your gear, or your armor and shield's penalties.
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'Before I put on this backpack, I was struggling to dodge and move. But with it, I can dodge bullets! It's incredible!'
'I-is it magical?'
'Nah mate, bought it for tenna. Cheap as chips.'
'How the f!** does it help you dodge bullets?'
'Weight distribution'
'THAT ISN'T HOW THAT WORKS AND YOU KNOW IT!'
That is a very questionable assumption. An 8 Str character gets good use out of a MW backpack because it is effectively a weightless bag, despite most of their weight being in the form of clothes, armor and magic items i.e. things that do not go in the bag. A 14 Str Archery based fighter in fullplate will likewise use up most of their weight capacity elsewhere. All of these factors are in play both before and after Haversacks get bought....
No it doesn't. a Handy Haversack is not a backpack. It's properties subsume that of a mwk backpack which works only because the assumption is that you're using it to stow the bulk of your gear.
A Masterwork backpack is not "weightless", if it were, it would be magical. It is simply a well made backpack that distributes weight more effectively. Items like this show that the rules get squirrelly when used outside the norm. 8 str weaklings don't usually trundle fully loaded backpacks. Nor should an empty backpack make your other items effectively lighter.
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Yeah, I'm more a duffelbag person too.
Had a 10 STR rogue with a duffelbag. Dropped it as a free action at the beginning of every combat. DM hated it as it allowed my low STR PC to get away with heavy load (i.e. armor / encumbrance check penalty doesn't affect Perception! ;) )