So title states the problem, i need help designing encounters for a game i'm running. I have yet to design an encounter were they struggle at all...
Anyway here's the current setting and the basics about the pc's. They have found themselves in an ancient prehistoric jungle, lost, no map.
If your any of my pc's turn away please. if not help is appreciated
Level 3
We have the following
invulnerable Rager Barbarian Lizardfolk-
Init +2; Senses Low-Light Vision; Perception +9
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC: 18, flat-footed 16, touch 12 (+4 armor, +2 Dex, +2 nat. armor)
hp: 31/38 (3d12 +12) [44 w/rage]
Fort +7 [+9 w/rage vs magic]; Ref +3 [+5 w/rage vs magic]; Will +4 [+8 w/rage]
Defensive Abilities: Dr/- 1, Superstitious Rage Power
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed: 40 ft.
Melee: MWK Greatsword +8 (2d6 +9; 19-20 x2), Bite +7 (1d3 +6; x2), Claw x2 +7 (1d4 +6; x2): [MWK Greatsword +10 (2d6 +12; 19-20 x2), Bite +9 (1d3 +8; x2), Claw x2 +9 (1d4 +8) w/Rage] All statistics assume Power Attack. Otherwise, remove three damage from Greatsword, and two from each natural Attack, add +1 to-hit for each.
A half elf building an Arcane archer type using fighter sorcerer
Init +6; Senses low-light vision; Perception +2
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 17, touch 14, flat-footed 13 (+3 armor, +4 Dex)
hp 28 (3 HD; 1d6+2d10+6)
Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +2; +2 vs. enchantments
Immune sleep
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee longsword +2 (1d8/19-20)
Ranged longbow +7 (2d6/×3)
Bloodline Spell-Like Abilities (CL 1st; concentration +3)
5/day—thunderstaff
Sorcerer Spells Known (CL 3rd; concentration +5)
1st (4/day)—abundant ammunition[UC], gravity bow[APG]
0 (at will)—detect magic, mage hand, read magic, spark[APG] (DC 12)
Bloodline Stormborn
An oracle of life spirit guide
Init +1, Senses Perception +3
=================================================
DEFENSE
=================================================
AC 14 Touch 11 Flat-footed 13 (+1 armor, +1 Dex, +2 shield)
hp 23 (3d8)
Fort +2 Ref +3 Will +7
=================================================
OFFENSE
=================================================
Speed 30 ft.
Melee morningstar +2 (1d8)
Melee darkwood shield -2 (1d4)
Special Attacks Channel (2d6, DC 15, 5/day)
Oracle Spells Known (CL 3rd; concentration +7)
1st (6/day) - burning disarm (DC 15), protection from evil (DC 15), sanctuary (DC 15), detect undead, cure light wounds (DC 15)
0th (at will) - create water, detect magic, detect poison, guidance (DC 14), light, mending (DC 14), resistance (DC 14), stabilize (DC 14), ghost sound (DC 14), mage hand
An finally an Evocation based wizard who mainly uses burning hands, flaming sphere and invisibility. he also is our current disable device expert.
I can provide any information needed to help but i do seriously need it. Encounters are not my forte
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
First, listen to this:
Then, to up the difficulty, either up the numbers or design encounters with some tactical twists.
Since the party has an oracle of life, you probably cannot rely on HP damage as threat.
It's either completely ineffecive OR deadly, there's no inbetween.
|
Credit to Alexander Agunas for the following Link
Cliff notes:
CRs are based around a 4 party Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, Wizard scheme.
Your party is close enough to that where class spread shouldn't be too skewed.
Next, an encounter that has a CR equal to the party's level is considered an "average" encounter. It should take some of the party's resources, but barring exceptionally poor rolls, should not be a challenge.
An encounter with a CR equal to the party's level +4 is supposed to be approximately a 50/50 chance of victory to either side. If your PCs fought mirror images of themselves, with all the same gear, spells, and so forth, that would be a CR+4 encounter.
A challenging encounter has a CR of the party level +2 or 3.
This all assumes the party has gear appropriate to their levels. More gear means foes need to be tougher to provide an adequate challenge.
Past that, ensure that your tougher designed fights always have multiple foes in them. 4 3rd level PCs fighting a CR 6 enemy will still usually win, because they have more actions than the enemy.
4 PCs will have 4 actions per round, while the enemy will only have 1.
So, if you want a big tough guy, give him some mooks to get in the way or some other allies to back him up. That way the bad guys get more actions and helps level the playing field.
But seriously, when you have the time I'd read through that entire article. Well, maybe not the stuff about Mythic, but most everything else is a solid read.
What types of encounters have you been running?
Pure melee is generally the weakest, so if all you have is zombies, wolves, ogres, etc then your party should have little trouble defeating them.
Try to have a mix of ranged, magical, and melee in your encounters.
How many encounters a day do you usually have?
If it is only one or two then the party can blow all of their resources on each encounter. This will make the seem much tougher than they really are.
Try extending the adventuring day by a couple of encounters. The last couple of encounters will seem much tougher even if they are the same CR as the rest.
A variation on the lots of encounters is to have some whose effects can carry over into the next encounter/day. Things like poison and disease. These are also especially appropriate for a jungle.
Addressing a few things
i understand action economy...i'm a fan of turn based rpg's. it's a common thing in those. as well as the math behind cr.
As for encounters per day i try to have 2 or 3 with the final being a big fight, however we have lost a few players in the process the only original player being the barbarian. the other went missing int he course of the game
i use poison and disease that much i know not to ignore my real problem is how many things do i send? what things do i send? thing like that
That lizardfolk barbarian... is he attacking with all of those attacks?
Yeah, the Barb's attacks should look like this (assuming 18 str):
Gtratsword +7 (2d6+9; 19-20 X2), bite +1 (d3+3; X2) or
Claw X2 +6 (d4+6; X2), bite +6 (d3+6; X2)
Raging it would be:
Gtratsword +9 (2d6+12; 19-20 X2), bite +3 (d3+4; X2) or
Claw X2 +6 (d4+8; X2), bite +6 (d3+8; X2)
How soon do you need it? I love the subject, but currently have some stuff to deal with, so would only be able to help tomorrow.
i posted this with time in mind so answer when you can,
@Klara Meison
the barbarians stats as i posted them are correct @Thorin001
Heretek @ No usually he just attacks with the greatsword,. the other things are listed in the way they are due in part to my poor formatting
i just gave the basics of the stats, i haven't actually listed feats, traits though those are prefactored in
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So, it sounds like you have a pretty bog-standard party with no special optimization but no glaring weaknesses other than the lack of a trap specialist (which isn't really much of a weakness).
That said, they do have some weaknesses which you should be exploiting whenever the encounter allows (which should be frequently).
A. They only have one character who is comfortable in melee
The barbarian is in his natural element in melee but sandwich the life oracle or the wannabe arcane archer or the wizard between four orc warriors and they'll fold like a cheap suit.
You can get a lot of orc warriors in a level appropriate encounter.
CR 1/4= 4 orc warriors to CR 1 and 8 orc warriors to CR 3. Now if you want to make it a memorable encounter rather than a speedbump, you should be making it CR 5, so you could either have 16 orc warriors (boring option) or 12 orc warriors led by a level 2 orc, or 8 orc warriors led by a pair of level 2 orcs.
Now, let's say you do the latter option. We'll give the orcs a skald and some kind of savage cavalier to lead them. The savage cavalier has precise strike as his teamwork feat, so the skald will inspire rage in all of the warriors while the cavalier grants them all Precise Strike and charges in to meet them.
You'll lose a few to burning hands--but probably only one or two. sorcerer will probably cast gravity bow on his first turn and then be surrounded by orc warriors and will have to switch to his sword which will take out a raging orc less than half the time and that's when he hits which will only be about half the time. Three orcs will drop him before he kills more than one. The barbarian will probably kill one orc per round but he'll take damage and when the orc "minions" have finished off his allies, he will be surrounded and finished off.
Now if you want to roll with other kinds of creatures, hobgoblins can be even nastier. There, you have an excuse to run a luring cavalier sergeant and give your hobgoblin minions volley fire, tanglefoot bags, nets, and other fun things--maybe even have a couple hobgoblins on anti-spellcaster duty where they ready actions to disrupt spellcasting. A group of hobgoblin warriors with Shield Wall and good armor should be able to hold the barbarian off of the hobgoblin archers for several rounds (Chainmail, heavy steel shield, and shield wall=AC 20 base--probably 22 with hobgoblin dex). But you could also run them with reach weapons and tanglefoot bags. Stick the barbarian in place then smash him with your lucerne hammers.
That's just one way of making a nasty encounter. There are lots of other ways. But the principles will usually be the same for running the encounters.
A. Don't play their game. Don't throw all of your melee troops at the barbarian and leave the other characters unmolested. Get in their faces, exploit their low ACs and mediocre hit points and force difficult concentration checks to cast spells.
Don't let them do the 5' step dance. Bad guys with Step Up will stop that cold for them. Flank them and there is no 5' step that avoids all AoOs. And you should be flanking whenever possible anyway. (And it is usually possible).
B. Don't run one monster encounters. Those are generally dull encounters anyway, but they play to the party's strengths. The barbarian can take full advantage of his high single-target damage output (which is wasted on weak foes--who cares if you hit a 6 hp hobgoblin for 15 hp. He's no more down than if you'd hit him for 7) while letting the wizard and wannabe arcane archer focus fire from positions of safety while the life oracle keeps the barbarian from going down.
C. Take advantage of terrain. Goblins should hide behind boulders and in bushes. Kobolds should hide behind pit traps (and if the barbarian falls into the pit trap, then your kobolds can swarm the back ranks while he climbs out).
D. Synergize. You'll notice that I led the orcs with a skald and a cavalier rather than a barbarian. A barbarian is a tough combatant but the skald and cavalier make all 8-12 of the other orcs better. And they're no slouches themselves. I'd rather have an extra +1 to hit and +4.5 damage on every one of my 8-12 minions than an extra +1 to hit and +2 damage on my leader.
E. Let encounters develop. All the bad guys don't need to be on the board at once. If the PCs see two orc sentries in the cave entrance and charge up and take them then take the right passage, orcs can come from the left passage to take them from behind. (There may be orcs in front too). Using reactive foes can make more challenging encounters but it also makes for more interesting ones. In this case, it also emphasizes a weakness of the party: the barbarian can only hold one area of the battlefield so if multiple groups of foes converge on the party at different times, he won't be able to interpose himself between all of them and the squishies.
F. Sometimes use status effects. I previously mentioned tanglefooting the barbarian. That's only the start. Ray of enfeeblement, frostbite, ray of exhaustion, create pit, glitterdust, blindness/deafness can all keep the characters from doing what they want. The bulk of the party's single target damage comes from the barbarian. If he gets hit with ray of enfeeblement for four points of strength (a mediocre roll on a failed save or a good roll on a successful save), and then fatigued or exhausted with ray of exhaustion, the party is going to have trouble dropping any opponents. Entangled, exhausted, and enfeebled, that would be -2 to hit and -8 to -10 to effective strength. Even raging, he wouldn't be a threat.
i posted this with time in mind so answer when you can,
@Klara Meisonthe barbarians stats as i posted them are correct @Thorin001
Heretek @ No usually he just attacks with the greatsword,. the other things are listed in the way they are due in part to my poor formatting
i just gave the basics of the stats, i haven't actually listed feats, traits though those are prefactored in
No they are not. You cannot use a greatsword and make 2 claw attacks. Also you are forgetting that if you make a manufactured weapon attack all natural weapons become secondary attacks, -5 to hit and half Str. -2 to hit and half str if he has Multitack.
Allowing your Barbarian these extra attacks without at full strength may well be a big part of why your encounters are dying so easily.
as stated prior he isnt using all those attack. he is only using the greatsword. the way they r listed is due to my formatting. its actually says in the response right below yours ... point being the numbers are correct and he is only using the greatsword, hr just happens to also have natural attack, which he isnt using
So this is gonna sound stupid but have you ever considered Kobold Blooded Sorcerers?
A level 1 Kobold Blooded Sorcerer is a CR 1/2 encounter which means you can have 4 of them in a CR3 encounter and 8 of them in a CR5 encounter.
These Kobolds need to be designed a little specifically to be threatening, so lets talk about that. If they are indoors keep darkvision and light sensitivity, but if they are outside swap those out with the Day Rider Alternate Racial Trait. Lastly grab Dragon Affinity in exchange for the natural armor (when these guys get hit they die, so don't worry about them too much).
4, 16, 10, 13, 12, 15 or 4, 14, 12, 13, 12, 15
They need Stealth, Perception, and Disable Device. They'll have 4(5) HP, so they fall over to a breeze but can cheat by being behind full cover. That is why arena design is important, in a cavern design an open room but with small sized trenches. Restrict the space the players can easily walk through one mechanic or another. Fill the arena they are in with pillars or rocks or something to provide full cover and then set up Trap Runes (Kobold Blooded Sorcerer's first level ability) they get 3+cha which means each has 6 per day to set up. So you can have 24 traps set up with the CR3 encounter. (For fun, feel free to combine these later on with a sliding block puzzle, your players will hate you forever).
These Kobolds get 4 spells per day, which means as your players are trying to get their way through the maze of traps they can be peppered with Magic Missiles. Since Magic Missile ignores cover, the Kobolds can fire them freely without exposing themselves. Give the Kobolds 3 magic missiles and one use of vanish. If the Kobolds run out of spells, have them flee down escape tunnels. If the Kobolds are almost in melee or some die, have the others escape down tunnels. If the party ever rests before completing the Dungeon, refresh those Kobold's spells and have them set up another ambush.
As far as feats go it depends on the statline, either consider improved initiative (for the first) or toughness for the second. Its unlikely that 8 HP is enough to survive even a single hit but sometimes folks roll low on their damage numbers. Throw in some traps, more Kobolds, more traps, more Kobolds, and you have a dungeon.
Ectar summarized Alex Augunas' How to Design Challenging Encounters for Pathfinder document above. I'd recommend reading the full document to get a proper understanding of how to balance your encounters. If you're not going to listen to that, then there is no helping you, because that's literally how you do it.