So I've got the bug again and I'm thinking of making a character for an upcoming campaign. The GM has stated that all paizo books are on the table - no 3rd party allowed.
The basic concept is to make a very flexible character, having access to divine and arcane spells, a familiar and not one but TWO animal companions, one of which is better than a vanilla druid of equal level.
My question is - is this all legal? He seems to be too good to be true for some reason... All comments and critique are welcome, both from a RAW and RAI viewpoint. I would really appreciate input on this.
This is what he looks like at selected levels:
Race: Half-elf
Class (Archetype): Oracle (Spirit Guide)
Your typical oracle at lvl 3, but with a familiar (effective level 1). The “Bonded spirit” gives access to one hex/day and specifically by choosing “Lore” spirit and the “Arcane Enlightenment” you now have access to (CHA) wiz/sorc spells per day – which can be changed every day. Flexibility!
• Feats: Skill focus (racial bonus), Nature soul (lvl 1), Eldritch heritage (lvl 3)
• Revelation: Prophetic armor - make Dex your dump stat.
• Curse, Haunted: Add mage hand and ghost sound to your list of spells known - Nice
• Favored class choice: Hit points.
You have a wolf animal companion (effective druid level 3=3HD) as well as a familiar (effective level 4). With 3rd level spells Paragon Surge comes online – which basically means that with some preparation the entire cleric spell list is available by choosing the “Expanded Arcana” feat when casting. Levels 4-6 gives you extra known 1st and 2nd level spells, further increasing flexibility. Additionally the spells granted by whichever spirit you chose for the day becomes available.
• Feats: Animal Ally (lvl 5)
• Revelation: -
• Curse, Haunted: add levitate and minor image to your list of spells known - Nice
• Favored class choice: Extra spells.
The build is coming into its own. You have access to all 4th level arcane and divine spells (with some preparation) and a large number of spontaneously casteable spells through spirit selection and favored class selections.
You have two wolf animal companions, one medium and one large as a horse, (effective druid level 6=6HD and 11=9HD ) as well as a familiar (effective level 7). All of whom can share your buff-spells through improved share spells.
The spirit ability granted is also available and can be selected every day.
• Feats: Extra revelation (Primal companion) (lvl 7), Improved share spells
• Revelation: Primal companion
• Curse, Haunted: add levitate and minor image to your list of spells known - Nice
• Favored class choice: Extra spells.
You have access to all 6th level arcane and divine spells (with some preparation) and a large number of spontaneously casteable spells. You also get to select one arcane spell to your permanent known spells.
With form of the beast you can shapechange into animals and magical beasts as a druid, once/day. You have two large wolf animal companions (effective druid level 9=8HD and 17=13HD ) as well as a familiar (effective level 10). This is where the FAQ kicks in and limits the animal companion to your HD+1. Relevant FAQ .
• Feats: Improved Eldritch Heritage (lvl 11)
• Revelation: Form of the beast
• Curse, Haunted: add Telekinesis to your list of spells known - Nice
• Favored class choice: Extra spells.
Flexible like a yoga instructor:
You have access to all 7th level arcane and divine spells (with some preparation) and a large number of spontaneously casteable spells. You also get to select one additional arcane spell to your permanent known spells.
You have two large wolf animal companions (effective druid level 15=12HD and 23=16HD ) as well as a familiar (effective level 10).
With buffing the Bigger of the animal companions has the potential to become a combat monster – while you can ride the other (who has been bumped significantly in usefulness also through boon companion) for added mobility and deliver touch spells through your familiar.
Or – use polymorph spells on you and your familiar (e.g. Form of the Dragon) to add some melee capability to yourselves and go to town with your wolves as backup. Form of the beast now allows you to take the form of large magical beasts – alternatively Elemental form can give you some nice mobility options – or – or – or.... See where this is going?
...and with Cha being a prime stat you can hold you own in social interactions as well.
• Feats: Boon Companion (lvl 13)
• Revelation: Form of the beast
• Curse, Haunted: add reverse gravity to your list of spells known - Nice
• Favored class choice: Extra spells.
...let the comments commence :)
Not at all sure how you're getting half of what you say you're getting. It looks vaguely like you are going mono oracle, so there should be no arcane spells in the picture at all.
Additionally, you can't get multiple animal companions. Rather, classes that give you animal companions stack.
The moment you get an animal companion through your class, however, the feat Animal Ally ceases to function for you, as you no longer meet the prerequisites.
Additionally, you can't get multiple animal companions. Rather, classes that give you animal companions stack.The moment you get an animal companion through your class, however, the feat Animal Ally ceases to function for you, as you no longer meet the prerequisites.
Shouldn't have two Wolf animal companions by this, but neither of these are exactly correct:
Cavalier FAQ:
http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fn#v5748eaic9qqn
"If the animal is on the cavalier mount list and on the list of animal companions for your other class, your cavalier and druid levels stack to determine the animal's abilities. If the animal is not on the cavalier mount list, the druid levels do not stack and you must have different animals (one an animal companion, one a cavalier mount). "
Animal Ally:
"If you later gain an animal companion through another source (such as the Animal domain, divine bond, hunter's bond, mount, or nature bond class features), the effective druid level granted by this feat stacks with that granted by other sources."
If you take Animal Ally out of the picture and it was a multiclass character (including Variant multi-class) then it is possible to have 2 animal companions.
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With 3rd level spells Paragon Surge comes online – which basically means that with some preparation the entire cleric spell list is available by choosing the “Expanded Arcana” feat when casting.
Yes, very flexible... but only grants you access to one or two (lower level) extra 'spells known' per day.
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Okay, I see the confusion.
Spirit guide oracle archetype grants the ability to form a temporary spirit bonds. You don't get a familiar. You do not gain the spirit animal abilities of the shaman's spirit feature.
You gain some of the Shaman Spirit abilities, including certain spells, which may normally be arcane spells. They aren't arcane for you, they are Oracle spells when you cast them, so they are divine. This includes the spells from Arcane Enlightenment, if you select that hex.
Regarding spirits, as written, you must reselect your spirit each day, which in turn, means reselecting your hexes each day. Sounds like a pain for keeping track of, but it is a very flexible option.
As for companions, I'm not seeing anything in this archetype, the shaman class, or the oracle that leads me to believe you can take multiple companions. Perhaps you are taking the same relevation twice? Not allowed. You can certainly acquire one companion via an oracle mystery. And, if you are multi-classing, a second companion could probably be added via that class. Some GMs will limit companions, though, so make sure you ask.
Not at all sure how you're getting half of what you say you're getting. It looks vaguely like you are going mono oracle, so there should be no arcane spells in the picture at all.
Additionally, you can't get multiple animal companions. Rather, classes that give you animal companions stack.
The moment you get an animal companion through your class, however, the feat Animal Ally ceases to function for you, as you no longer meet the prerequisites.
Yes, you're right - mono Oracle it is. And right again, he will not be casting arcane spells literally, but will have access to arcane spells (which are cast as divine spells) by selecting the Lore spirit and Arcane Enlightenment Hex - Let's say he has 18 CHA that gives him the option of 4 wiz/sorc spells that day.
As for animal ally, I'm not sure - but the feat text seems to imply that you can in fact get more than one animal companion. Thing is you get one at 5th lvl due to the feat - then you get an additional animal companion at 7th level by choosing the Primal companion revelation.
If there's a clear ruling on this somewhere a link would be appreciated.
Oh, and hey - thanks for your insights! :)
Additionally, you can't get multiple animal companions. Rather, classes that give you animal companions stack.The moment you get an animal companion through your class, however, the feat Animal Ally ceases to function for you, as you no longer meet the prerequisites.
Shouldn't have two Wolf animal companions by this, but neither of these are exactly correct:
Cavalier FAQ:
http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fn#v5748eaic9qqn
"If the animal is on the cavalier mount list and on the list of animal companions for your other class, your cavalier and druid levels stack to determine the animal's abilities. If the animal is not on the cavalier mount list, the druid levels do not stack and you must have different animals (one an animal companion, one a cavalier mount). "Animal Ally:
"If you later gain an animal companion through another source (such as the Animal domain, divine bond, hunter's bond, mount, or nature bond class features), the effective druid level granted by this feat stacks with that granted by other sources."If you take Animal Ally out of the picture and it was a multiclass character (including Variant multi-class) then it is possible to have 2 animal companions.
Yes, this is where a ruling would be good - specifically "another source". Source #1 is clearly the feat as even a fighter can gain an animal companion through this feat. Source #2 would be Oracle revelation = Nature bond gained at lvl 7. As I said initially, it seems too good to be able to have 2 companions - but reading the text it seems to be possible(?)
With 3rd level spells Paragon Surge comes online – which basically means that with some preparation the entire cleric spell list is available by choosing the “Expanded Arcana” feat when casting.Yes, very flexible... but only grants you access to one or two (lower level) extra 'spells known' per day.
Agreed - it's pulling the proverbial rabbit out of the hat when it's needed. But think of the possibilities in down-time, suddenly you have access to casting Contingency the day before going on an adventure... Or when crafting magic items... Or if you want to teleport somewhere...
The Arcane Enlightenment Hex as worded doesn't actually help an oracle at all.
"add a number of spells... to the list of (oracle) spells she can prepare"
Oracles don't prepare spells, so adding them to your list of spells you can prepare doesn't do anything for you.
Okay, I see the confusion.
Spirit guide oracle archetype grants the ability to form a temporary spirit bonds. You don't get a familiar. You do not gain the spirit animal abilities of the shaman's spirit feature.
You gain some of the Shaman Spirit abilities, including certain spells, which may normally be arcane spells. They aren't arcane for you, they are Oracle spells when you cast them, so they are divine. This includes the spells from Arcane Enlightenment, if you select that hex.
Regarding spirits, as written, you must reselect your spirit each day, which in turn, means reselecting your hexes each day. Sounds like a pain for keeping track of, but it is a very flexible option.
As for companions, I'm not seeing anything in this archetype, the shaman class, or the oracle that leads me to believe you can take multiple companions. Perhaps you are taking the same relevation twice? Not allowed. You can certainly acquire one companion via an oracle mystery. And, if you are multi-classing, a second companion could probably be added via that class. Some GMs will limit companions, though, so make sure you ask.
That's right, the oracle doesn't grant you a familiar - that comes from the Eldritch Heritage (Arcane bloodline) feat taken at lvl 3.
The Lore spirit hex gives you the opportunity to select up to your CHA modifier spells from the wiz/sorc list (casting them as divine spells) - and changing them up every day.
No, not taking the same revelation twice - the two companions are based on one coming from the feat and one from the class ability (revelation). I guess that's one of the interpretations I am looking for guidance on.
The Arcane Enlightenment Hex as worded doesn't actually help an oracle at all.
"add a number of spells... to the list of (oracle) spells she can prepare"
Oracles don't prepare spells, so adding them to your list of spells you can prepare doesn't do anything for you.
No, oracles don't prepare spells... I hadn't reflected on the exact wording in that paragraph...
Does that take this option off the table then? (If so, the Ancient Lorekeeper is another one I had in mind to gain access to sorc/wiz spells. Besides Improved Eldritch Heritage of course...)
Saethori is right that you can't get two wolves via Animal Ally + Primal Companion. Animal Ally turns off because you no longer meet its pre-requisites, which include "must not have an animal companion".
Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he gains the prerequisite.
A character can't use a feat if he loses a prerequisite, but he does not lose the feat itself. If, at a later time, he regains the lost prerequisite, he immediately regains full use of the feat that prerequisite enables.
Also how are you causing your effective druid level to be greater than your oracle level for the primal companion? If you're counting on the Elf favored class bonus (something you didn't list in the rundown above), note that it grants 1/6th of an effective oracle level for the revelation each time you take it.
Otherwise it sure does look like you're getting a lot of flexibility :>
Saethori is right that you can't get two wolves via Animal Ally + Primal Companion. Animal Ally turns off because you no longer meet its pre-requisites, which include "must not have an animal companion".
Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he gains the prerequisite.
A character can't use a feat if he loses a prerequisite, but he does not lose the feat itself. If, at a later time, he regains the lost prerequisite, he immediately regains full use of the feat that prerequisite enables.
Also how are you causing your effective druid level to be greater than your oracle level for the primal companion? If you're counting on the Elf favored class bonus (something you didn't list in the rundown above), note that it grants 1/6th of an effective oracle level for the revelation each time you take it.
Otherwise it sure does look like you're getting a lot of flexibility :>
This must be an exception to the prereq rule as it is clearly stated in the feat text what happens if you gain an animal companion after taking the feat.
No, favored class is used to gain extra spells. Effective druid level with the animal ally feat is then CL-3 added to oracle levels for primal companion. These should stack, so if you only have oracle levels (as in this build) your effective druid level is 2xLvl-3, or a whopping 27 at lvl 15. However due to the FAQ ruling listed in my original post the animal companion is capped at your HD+1.
you can't count a class level for more than one thing. So your druid level is your class level as it can't count for both the feat and the revelation.
you can't count a class level for more than one thing. So your druid level is your class level as it can't count for both the feat and the revelation.
Hm, read some more threads and came across
this one.With the following section in it:
Cavalier: Do animal companion levels from the druid class stack with cavalier mount levels?
If the animal is on the cavalier mount list and on the list of animal companions for your other class, your cavalier and druid levels stack to determine the animal's abilities. If the animal is not on the cavalier mount list, the druid levels do not stack and you must have different animals (one an animal companion, one a cavalier mount).
For example, if you are Medium druid and you choose a horse companion, levels in cavalier stack to determine the horse's abilities. If you are a Medium druid and you choose a bird companion, levels in cavalier do not stack to determine the bird's abilities, and you must choose a second creature to be your mount (or abandon the bird and select an animal companion you can use as a mount).
This same answer applies to multiclassed cavalier/rangers.
(Note that the design team discourages players from having more than one companion creature at a time, as those creatures tend to be much weaker than a single creature affected by these stacking rules, and add to the bookkeeping for playing that character.)
—Pathfinder Design Team, 06/19/13
Which seems to make an argument for allowing stacking - i.e. Character level and Class level not being the same source (perhaps this is overly literal?) Nevertheless, even if you can have utter shenanigans like the example in the thread where you end up with an effective druid level of 32, you would be limited to having the AC with HD equal to your Character level +1.
What I haven't found yet is a clear ruling that you can only have one AC. There are several examples where you can have more than one AC (e.g. the archetypes Beastmaster, Packlord to name just two)
Thanks for all your input.
Perhaps a less controversial take on this character would be to use the Elven Loremaster archetype to gain access to the arcane spell list and use the interpretation that Animal Ally does not give you an extra AC?
Still there seems to be some hesitation related to whether effective druid levels from the animal ally feat and the oracle revelation stack despite the FAQ quoted above.
Not trying to be argumentative, only to find out what the devs and community thinks. Naturally I'll discuss the build with the GM before, but wanted to find out if it would be kosher in e.g. a Pathfinder society game...
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What I haven't found yet is a clear ruling that you can only have one AC. There are...
Only 1 in PFS, but you can otherwise have more than 1 animal companion. That said, most GMs will limit it, just because the game mechanics don't work too well if a single player has too many actions each turn. In general, characters with companions are pretty difficult to balance with the normal CR system, which normally only counts player characters to balance an encounter.
In the spirit of kindness to your GM, I would suggest sticking with only one companion creature, like a familiar or animal companion.
I was expecting more focus on flexibility and less on trying to stack animal companions. ;)
As others mentioned, RAW Arcane Enlightenment doesn't work for a Spirit Guide Oracle. You definitely can't get a second AC unless the ability specifically calls out multiples (like Beast Master Ranger.) Animal Ally should clearly have a "to a maximum effective druid level of your total character level," but if you can talk your GM into that, more power to you.
If you want a very flexible character in this vein (as opposed to a beast master) I would recommend a Half Elf Unsworn Shaman, possibly with a one level dip into Medium. Unsworn can swap their spirits and hexes completely every day, have full use of Arcane Enlightenment, can use the Shaman Human FCB to nab Cleric spells, and use Paragon Surge as needed. And you get your familiar for free (with a nice Spirit Animal bump like DR 5/- or Fast Healing 1.)
Well, the flexibility is there, but I guess the animal companion part was the most controversial - and perhaps that's where my rules-fu fell short. Still, a somewhat toned down version with the Elven loremaster archetype for arcane spells, familiar, full druid level AC and paragon surge for impro spells is fairly flexible in my book.
Loving your suggestion too by the way, Unsworn shaman is not something I had considered. I must give that some serious thought, it seems fairly strong and flexible as well...
What I haven't found yet is a clear ruling that you can only have one AC. There are...
Only 1 in PFS, but you can otherwise have more than 1 animal companion. That said, most GMs will limit it, just because the game mechanics don't work too well if a single player has too many actions each turn. In general, characters with companions are pretty difficult to balance with the normal CR system, which normally only counts player characters to balance an encounter.
In the spirit of kindness to your GM, I would suggest sticking with only one companion creature, like a familiar or animal companion.
Yes, as always the GM is the final arbiter of how he wants his games to run. And action economy is king after all.
Skill Focus: Escape Artist will make you the most flexible!
Skill Focus: Escape Artist will make you the most flexible!
Cave druids can shapeshange into oozes I belive - splits ftw :)
Animal Ally
Wow, Dev and Audit have applied the helical inclined plane to the canine.
The prerequisites require no other animal companion,
Out of order, but we need to note first that the Revelation granted companion acts as a normal advancing animal companion.
Now Ally:
PFS Legal Animal Ally
Source Faiths and Philosophies pg. 11 (Amazon)
Your respect for nature is so great that you can form a deep and lasting friendship with an animal.
Prerequisites: Nature Soul, character level 4th, **must not have an animal companion or mount that advances as an animal companion.**
Benefit: You gain an animal companion as if you were a druid of your character level –3 from the following list: badger, bird, camel, cat (small), dire rat, dog, horse, pony, snake (viper), or wolf. *****If you later gain an animal companion through another source (such as the Animal domain, divine bond, hunter’s bond, mount, or nature bond class features), the effective druid level granted by this feat stacks with that granted by other sources.***
OK, this looks like the prerequisite is at odds with the text of the feat. Logically, they are not mutually exclusive, you could even have the revelation before you took this feat, just as long as you currently do not have a companion, it does NOT say you cannot have the ability to have one. As written, the feat just becomes the dominant ability in determining the "Pet" abilities.
All solved, right? Boon companion becomes irrelevant almost immediately, since it cannot ever raise your effective Druid level over your character level, pfft.
Problem is those stacking levels. You start with Character level -3. Easy enough, then you stack on your levels from the revelation, or wherever else you got the from.
Here is the problem, these levels get added twice effectively, once from the Oracle levels in this case, but again because these levels are ALSO included in your character levels.
Time for everyone to retrain their Druids and take over the world (Pinky)
Please tell me there is an errata on this already.
Animal Ally
Wow, Dev and Audit have applied the helical inclined plane to the canine.The prerequisites require no other animal companion,
Out of order, but we need to note first that the Revelation granted companion acts as a normal advancing animal companion.
Now Ally:
PFS Legal Animal Ally
Source Faiths and Philosophies pg. 11 (Amazon)
Your respect for nature is so great that you can form a deep and lasting friendship with an animal.Prerequisites: Nature Soul, character level 4th, **must not have an animal companion or mount that advances as an animal companion.**
Benefit: You gain an animal companion as if you were a druid of your character level –3 from the following list: badger, bird, camel, cat (small), dire rat, dog, horse, pony, snake (viper), or wolf. *****If you later gain an animal companion through another source (such as the Animal domain, divine bond, hunter’s bond, mount, or nature bond class features), the effective druid level granted by this feat stacks with that granted by other sources.***
OK, this looks like the prerequisite is at odds with the text of the feat. Logically, they are not mutually exclusive, you could even have the revelation before you took this feat, just as long as you currently do not have a companion, it does NOT say you cannot have the ability to have one. As written, the feat just becomes the dominant ability in determining the "Pet" abilities.
All solved, right? Boon companion becomes irrelevant almost immediately, since it cannot ever raise your effective Druid level over your character level, pfft.
Problem is those stacking levels. You start with Character level -3. Easy enough, then you stack on your levels from the revelation, or wherever else you got the from.
Here is the problem, these levels get added twice effectively, once from the Oracle levels in this case, but again because these levels are ALSO included in your character levels.
Time for everyone to retrain their Druids and take over the world (Pinky)Please...
That's exactly right. The feat is worded in a way that makes me think that your effective druid level (EDL) becomes (CL-3)+(Class lvls) which at e.g. level 12 with a Lunar Oracle becomes EDL=21. However due to the FAQ you would be capped at EDL=16 for a 13HD AC.
Ok, so if this is correct RAW - is it broken? Combining a key class ability with two feats is a significant investment, and given the HD cap of the animal companion I would argue that it is not.
Moreover, the errata to ARG has nerfed the elf/asimar FCB for oracles from 1/2 lvls to 1/6 lvls. This means that the FCB route to canine superiority is no longer on the table - you cannot use FCB to achieve the "18th level companion at level 12" as used in the example in the FAQ. Does that mean that you can get that by going another route, and is this one of those routes?
I'm still iffy on if you get one Animal Companion from each source - If you don't it seems like you won't get much benefit from investing two feats and having a major class ability. I mean afterall you could only go Animal Ally+Boon Companion and get a full EDL animal companion regardless of your class... I would love for someone to find a RAW/FAQ/Errata to spell this out for numbnuts like myself ;)
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Yes, you're right - mono Oracle it is. And right again, he will not be casting arcane spells literally, but will have access to arcane spells (which are cast as divine spells) by selecting the Lore spirit and Arcane Enlightenment Hex - Let's say he has 18 CHA that gives him the option of 4 wiz/sorc spells that day.
You do know that they changed the Spirit Guide language? If you have a legal copy of the PDF, go download the updated PDF.
A spirit guide gains one hex of her choice from the list of hexes available from that spirit. She uses her oracle level as her shaman level, and she switches Wisdom for Charisma and vice versa for the purpose of determining the hex's effects.
So you get to select a number of spells equal to your WISDOM modifier, not your CHARISMA modifier.
You also use your CHARISMA modifier in place of WISDOM to determine DC's.
You also need the requisite INT score to cast the spell, so you're capped. If you have INT14, then you can only cast up to 4th level spells.
I thought of going this route and abandoned it earlier this year as it wasn't worth it.
Instead I'm running an ORACLE of Life [to heal], Spirit Guide (Fire) [to blast] with Animal Ally for a Wolf Companion [for melee]. Still very flexible, but NOT my original idea (which was the same as yours).
The DEVs have said that you can only count a level once. If you are a wizard with a familiar and take eldritch heritage for a familiar you can't count your level twice.
If you have effective druid levels and druid levels equal to non-druid level then you can only count it once. So your druid levels can count towards the -3 for character level, or can be it's own for an animal outside the list.
Yes, you're right - mono Oracle it is. And right again, he will not be casting arcane spells literally, but will have access to arcane spells (which are cast as divine spells) by selecting the Lore spirit and Arcane Enlightenment Hex - Let's say he has 18 CHA that gives him the option of 4 wiz/sorc spells that day.You do know that they changed the Spirit Guide language? If you have a legal copy of the PDF, go download the updated PDF.
A spirit guide gains one hex of her choice from the list of hexes available from that spirit. She uses her oracle level as her shaman level, and she switches Wisdom for Charisma and vice versa for the purpose of determining the hex's effects.
So you get to select a number of spells equal to your WISDOM modifier, not your CHARISMA modifier.
You also use your CHARISMA modifier in place of WISDOM to determine DC's.
You also need the requisite INT score to cast the spell, so you're capped. If you have INT14, then you can only cast up to 4th level spells.
I thought of going this route and abandoned it earlier this year as it wasn't worth it.
Instead I'm running an ORACLE of Life [to heal], Spirit Guide (Fire) [to blast] with Animal Ally for a Wolf Companion [for melee]. Still very flexible, but NOT my original idea (which was the same as yours).
Aaah, thanks I hadn't considered the MADness of the character in that way. Good find, and tons of flexibility to your build. Give him Eldritch Heritage as well and you can get a familiar to deliver heal spells and access to Improved Eldritch heritage with Paragon Surge (Half-elf only) which will let you get an elective arcane spell once per day if I read this correct.
The DEVs have said that you can only count a level once. If you are a wizard with a familiar and take eldritch heritage for a familiar you can't count your level twice.
If you have effective druid levels and druid levels equal to non-druid level then you can only count it once. So your druid levels can count towards the -3 for character level, or can be it's own for an animal outside the list.
Yes, I found something about this in a FAQ, but if you found a way to get a mount for instance... Only thing is that requires e.g. a cavalier level (or 4 if you want the Horse master feat). So for a Party of one build you could potentially have a familiar, mount, animal companion and a cohort (potentially with the same build). Not what the original thread was about, but still an amusing thought experiment. Probably not very playable though.
So based on your feedback, it seems the original build was in fact too good to be true. So toning some of the features down I still think this is a very flexible character, hopefully also legal according to RAW. Full divine caster, access to some arcane spells, familiar, full animal companion progression and good healing to boot. Single class all the way.
This is what he looks like at selected levels:
Race: Half-elf
Class (Archetype): Oracle (Ancient Lorekeeper)
Mystery: Life
Curse: Haunted
Your typical oracle at lvl 3, but with a familiar (effective level 1). Add one 0th lvl Wizard spell to your spells known at lvl 2. Whoop-de-doo.
• Feats: Skill focus (racial bonus), Nature soul (lvl 1), Eldritch heritage (lvl 3)
• Revelation: Channel, life link
• Curse: Add mage hand and ghost sound to your list of spells known - Nice
• Favored class choice: Hit points
You have a wolf animal companion (effective druid level 3=3HD) as well as a familiar (effective level 4). With 3rd level spells Paragon Surge comes online – which basically means that with some preparation the entire cleric spell list is available by choosing the “Expanded Arcana” feat when casting. (Noting the FAQ which limits the choices made to 1/day, this is still very good imho) Levels 4-6 gives you extra known 1st and 2nd level oracle spells, further increasing flexibility. Ancient Lorekeeper adds one 1st and one 2nd lvl Wizard spell to your spells known.
• Feats: Animal Ally (lvl 5)
• Revelation: -
• Curse, Haunted: add levitate and minor image to your list of spells known - Nice
• Favored class choice: Extra spells
The build is coming into its own. You have access to all 4th level divine spells (with some preparation), selected Wizard spells up to 3rd lvl and a large number of spontaneously casteable spells through favored class selections.
You have a wolf animal companion large as a horse, (effective druid level 9) as well as a familiar (effective level 7). All of whom can share your buff-spells through improved share spells. The wolf companion can be used as a mount to provide good mobility.
The spirit ability granted is also available and can be selected every day.
• Feats: Boon Companion, Selective Channel
• Revelation: Energy Body
• Curse, Haunted: add levitate and minor image to your list of spells known - Nice
• Favored class choice: Extra spells.
You have access to all 6th level divine spells (with some preparation) and a large number of spontaneously casteable spells.
You know one wizard spell from each level 1-5.
You can also use paragon surge to select the Improved Eldritch Heritage to gain access to the 9th level power of the Arcane Bloodline (New Arcana) which in turn will give you the option to cast a wizard spell of up to 6th level. This trick can be used in emergencies as well of course, but opens up for using Contingency (or other day/lvl spells) as you please. (Contingency + heal for instance?)
• Feats: Improved Eldritch Heritage (lvl 11)
• Revelation: Lifesense
• Curse, Haunted: add Telekinesis to your list of spells known - Nice
• Favored class choice: Extra spells.
Flexible like a retired yoga instructor/paramedic:
You have access to all 7th level divine spells (with some preparation) and a large number of spontaneously casteable spells. You can also cast selected arcane spells up to lvl 6 and even one 7th level wizard spell by use of paragon surge trick.
You have a large wolf animal companions (effective druid level 15) as well as a familiar (effective level 13).
With buffing the Bigger of the animal companions has the potential to become a combat monster – or you can use it as a mount for added mobility and deliver touch spells through your familiar.
Or – use polymorph spells on you and your familiar (e.g. Form of the Dragon) to add some melee capability to yourselves and go to town with your wolf as backup. Using channeling and life link you should be able to keep your pets and party members alive a bit longer than normal and gain you some friends in the process. (Yes I know healing is considered sub-optimal in pathfinder, still this is not a one trick healing pony) A heal spell will not be capped at 150 hps either. (The Fey foundling feat should really find a way into this build as well...)
So at the end of the day you can contribute with both divine casting, arcane casting, melee (animal companion) and healing.
...and with Cha being a prime stat you can hold you own in social interactions as well.
• Feats: ?
• Revelation: Enhanced Cures
• Curse, Haunted: add reverse gravity to your list of spells known - Nice
• Favored class choice: Extra spells.
Would this be PFS legal do you think? I haven't really thought much about traits yet. Any good suggestions?
Flagging for move to Advice board. This has nothing to do with rules questions.
Give him Eldritch Heritage as well and you can get a familiar to deliver heal spells and access to Improved Eldritch heritage with Paragon Surge (Half-elf only) which will let you get an elective arcane spell once per day if I read this correct.
This does not work anymore due to the Spells Known FAQ. If you want to be able to cast specific arcane spells (ie. not just the ones Spirit Guide can provide you), Ancient Lorekeeper or Dreamed Secrets are your options. Lore Keeper is a fixed list spells (that count as a level higher), while Dreamed Secrets is a flexible two per day, but neither can get you Arcane 9ths.
If you want a Divine Caster that can hack 9th level arcane spells onto your list, you'll have to be a Shaman. Of course Half-Elf Shaman with Dreamed Secrets, Wandering Hex (Arcane Enlightenment), Paragon Surge, and the Half-Elf Favored Class bonuses is the most flexible spell list and overall character you are going to get, though Razmiran Priest Sorcerer continues to win the broadest effective spell list by a land slide, though it does require monetary investment in scrolls and spell level up-charges (but you can actually get stuff early despite that).
Give him Eldritch Heritage as well and you can get a familiar to deliver heal spells and access to Improved Eldritch heritage with Paragon Surge (Half-elf only) which will let you get an elective arcane spell once per day if I read this correct.This does not work anymore due to the Spells Known FAQ. If you want to be able to cast specific arcane spells (ie. not just the ones Spirit Guide can provide you), Ancient Lorekeeper or Dreamed Secrets are your options. Lore Keeper is a fixed list spells (that count as a level higher), while Dreamed Secrets is a flexible two per day, but neither can get you Arcane 9ths.
If you want a Divine Caster that can hack 9th level arcane spells onto your list, you'll have to be a Shaman. Of course Half-Elf Shaman with Dreamed Secrets, Wandering Hex (Arcane Enlightenment), Paragon Surge, and the Half-Elf Favored Class bonuses is the most flexible spell list and overall character you are going to get, though Razmiran Priest Sorcerer continues to win the broadest effective spell list by a land slide, though it does require monetary investment in scrolls and spell level up-charges (but you can actually get stuff early despite that).
Here is a link to the New Spells Known FAQ Anzyr is referring to. Thanks, that clears it up - flexibility stiffening up :)
Interesting suggestion on the shaman, but I'm not clear on how the paragon surge would help as much when you can't choose expanded arcana? Or are you suggesting using Improved Eldritch Heritage to get a Wizard spell to your spells known?
Yes, I was looking for a divine caster who could throw some arcane spells, not vice versa...
Flagging for move to Advice board. This has nothing to do with rules questions.
Fair enough, it started out as rules questions and legit build questions, it is now probably more fitting in the advice section. Any way I can move it there myself?
Give him Eldritch Heritage as well and you can get a familiar to deliver heal spells and access to Improved Eldritch heritage with Paragon Surge (Half-elf only) which will let you get an elective arcane spell once per day if I read this correct.This does not work anymore due to the Spells Known FAQ. If you want to be able to cast specific arcane spells (ie. not just the ones Spirit Guide can provide you), Ancient Lorekeeper or Dreamed Secrets are your options. Lore Keeper is a fixed list spells (that count as a level higher), while Dreamed Secrets is a flexible two per day, but neither can get you Arcane 9ths.
If you want a Divine Caster that can hack 9th level arcane spells onto your list, you'll have to be a Shaman. Of course Half-Elf Shaman with Dreamed Secrets, Wandering Hex (Arcane Enlightenment), Paragon Surge, and the Half-Elf Favored Class bonuses is the most flexible spell list and overall character you are going to get, though Razmiran Priest Sorcerer continues to win the broadest effective spell list by a land slide, though it does require monetary investment in scrolls and spell level up-charges (but you can actually get stuff early despite that).
Here is a link to the New Spells Known FAQ Anzyr is referring to. Thanks, that clears it up - flexibility stiffening up :)
Interesting suggestion on the shaman, but I'm not clear on how the paragon surge would help as much when you can't choose expanded arcana? Or are you suggesting using Improved Eldritch Heritage to get a Wizard spell to your spells known?
Yes, I was looking for a divine caster who could throw some arcane spells, not vice versa...
Fair enough, it started out as rules questions and legit build questions, it is now probably more fitting in the advice section. Any way I can move it there...
Flagging for move to Advice board. This has nothing to do with rules questions.
Paragon Surge even without being able to use it to expand your spells is still a flexible feat, which is very powerful. Additional Traits can be an incredible useful feat to select by choosing "trait combos" like Wayang Spellhunter and Magical Lineage to get a flexible -2 to metamagic costs to any 1-3rd spell you have, or using it select Spell Perfection, so you can pick Spell Perfection spells on the fly from day to day. Or even just picking up a useful feat as the situation demands.
Good point, I completely agree.