Im considering making an aberrant race and I was looking for rules regarding nonabilities. While I can find examples of Strength (Incorporeal), Intelligence (Mindless), and Constitution (Undead and Constructs), I cannot find anything on the other three ability scores. Is there anything on these? For a strange creature could any of these be justifiable?
No dexterity would be immobile. No charisma would likely be no drive or individuality.
no Charisma could be like a Magic void as well, considering Classes like Sorc's use Charisma to sort or represent their inner power and some really high level monster's saves work off it for similar reason I believe.
A creature that lacks Dexterity is immobile. In D&D 3.5, Shriekers had an entry of "Dex --". Pathfinder mentions them as hazards but does not treat them as creatures. Some 3rd party products do have immobile creatures that lack Dexterity scores, but I cannot find any by Paizo.
By a definition going all the way back to D&D 3.0, all creatures have Wisdom and Charisma scores -- anything that lacks these ability scores is an object and not a creature.
An intelligent item would be an entity without a Dexterity score.
Well, the problem with a lack of dex and cha is that they are generally defined as 'off', pretty much. Dexless leads to immobility, chaless leads to mental immobility.
At best, dex less can be intelligent, probably psychicly floating items. Use mental stat in place of dex.
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A plant or mineral based race could be immobile/sessile and qualify for no Dex score, although it would have to also lack limbs capable of manipulation, and generally be limited to psychic spellcasting or similar abilities that don't require movement or limbs or somatic components.
There have been a few alien races in sci-novels with that sort of nature, ranging from the 'Angels' of Jeffrey Carver's Infinity Link to the Guardian of Forever, from the old Star Trek episode City on the Edge of Tomorrow, being sentient but immobile/sessile.
Nonabilities in Wisdom and Charisma seem less viable, IMO.
Dex --:
Clockwork Brain Gear [Tome of Horrors Complete]
Screaming Skull [Tome of Horrors Complete]
/cevah
Cha:- Seems like Hive mind creatures, where the individual beings have no will of their own, but respond to the will of an over-mind. They have no Cha, but when interacting with them you'd usually be interacting with the over-mind, and using its Cha score. If you could somehow disconnect the over-mind from the creature in front of you it would have no Cha (Essentially becoming an automaton, it would stand there till it decomposes unless made to do otherwise).
For most game-play purposes though you'd be using the over-mind's Cha score, so this would be more of a theoretical "Cha:-".
Even perfectly mindless undead and golems have Charisma.
Even perfectly mindless undead and golems have Charisma.
I know, that seems kinda weird to me.
I guess rather than "Automaton" I should have said "Doll" or something. A golem or undead can still have a goal and a will (usually set by their creator).
In the scenario I described the hive-mind creatures can't do that. The over-mind has to be physically controlling them at all times or they stop what they're doing and "go dead". My swarm of hive-mind creatures are more like limbs of a single creature than a group of individuals. If you cut off someone's arm it doesn't get it's own Cha score, and if you separate one of these from the "brain" it wouldn't either.
Just an idea really. I can't think of any other way to have no Cha.
No wisdom would be totally insensate. Unable to see, hear, feel etc. anything going on around it. Not sure that would ever works as a creature, rather than just a natural hazard.
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No wisdom would be totally insensate. Unable to see, hear, feel etc. anything going on around it. Not sure that would ever works as a creature, rather than just a natural hazard.
I think you can probably swing some azathoth with no wisdom though. A blind idiot god unaware of even his own existence.A gibbering mass of power that has to be dealt with because it cannot adulterate the effects of its unaware actions
No wisdom would be totally insensate. Unable to see, hear, feel etc. anything going on around it. Not sure that would ever works as a creature, rather than just a natural hazard.I think you can probably swing some azathoth with no wisdom though. A blind idiot god unaware of even his own existence.A gibbering mass of power that has to be dealt with because it cannot adulterate the effects of its unaware actions
I was thinking this, too.
You could mix all three together into a "fifth dimensional being" that exists outside of time, is fixed in space, can perceive (but is too addled to be attentive), and is either one node in a hivemind or unable to act on any urge.
But if it isn't aware of anything, not even itself... How is it any different from an object or natural phenomena? Because it moves and does thing? Hurricanes move and do things too... But they aren't creatures. Same goes for fire, rain, machines etc...
IMO, a Wisdom score demonstrates will. Any will. Even the simplest instinct... Which is why every creature has it.
Charisma makes thing more complicated... What would having no Charisma mean? If you have a creature who has neither the ability nor the desire to communicate, and is completely undetectable... Does it have a Cha modifier?
But if isn't aware of anything, not even itself... How is it any different from an object or natural phenomena? Because it moves and does thing? Hurricanes move and do things too... But they aren't creatures. Same goes for fire, rain, machines etc...
It is basically a hurricane with hit points. Wanders in a direction, and destroys everything along the way. Doesn't even realize it is going that direction.
Also, we can go with less of a 'mad god' singular thing, and go for a mad stampede that will run down the village, or an important protective wall. Better for the 'kill em' strategy, while actual hurricane class foes tend to be more about...sealing or something. Nice as a capstone, but you want something to engage with mechanically too.
Even swarms have a will to do something, though... Even if that will is just following their most basic instinct. That's why they have a Wis score.
They can't form complex thoughts, though. All they know is how to follow their instincts... Which is why they have no Int score.
The "creature" you're describing is not a locust swarm... It's just a machine... A moving object with no thought, like a rock rolling downhill... It has hp and might have to be stopped or destroyed before it causes a tragedy... But it's not a creature.
Hell! Even trees are considered objects! And they are most definetely alive! And yet... They aren't creatures, by Pathfinder rules.
Charisma is a measure of how much a creature affects others around it. Zero charisma would mean it has no effect at all, and is socially invisible. Same as a boulder beside a path.
Undead have charisma because they affect others. People go out of their way to destroy them, or to avoid them.
/cevah
The following is from D&D v3.5, Pathfinder's predecessor. Though this exact verbiage technically no longer exists within the Pathfinder rules (to save page space I imagine), these rules are still adhered to in practice.
Oh: idea for no charisma- automatons. In fact, done well, it could handle dexless and wisdomless as well.
When I say automatons, I don't mean clockwork golems, which have at least some internal discretion. No, I mean straight up animatronics that are on set paths with no deviation (although they are problably covered in spikes, razors, etc.- ie- getting hit isn't pleasant).
Basically, what I am describing is more like a trap, but treated a bit more like an enemy. They are basically objects, but use move and make attacks. Maybe somehting like... the floor tiles have a mechanism that sends an 'attack here' command to the trap-bots.
And you can show the difference from regular golems by making them ABSURDLY easy to avoid once you figure out the trick. With the floor tile thing- "I cast fly", and they never bother you again. Because they aren't golems designed to notice the situation to find and attack intruder- they are trap bots merely following their mechanism. (although a smart trap maker plans ahead for such scenarios, such as trip wires about 6' above the floor and routine attack patterns covering everything)
That makes them wisdomless and cha-less... I list them as dex less too, since they don't really 'dodge'. Maybe a dodge bonus for moving weird, but nothing more.
Zero charisma is impossible some say here ... and I initially agreed ... but I have a teddy bear and when I was watching the football (soccer) the other night he was placed next to me, as my wife was in bed and it was 4 a.m. So I would say that Teddy Bear has charisma. If you look at the Websters dictionary under charisma 3 "it has a special allure or charm that inspires fascination or devotion." That could be an inanimate object.
The Teddy Bear gave me comfort during the game ... this is extremely philosophical and I just chatted to my mate in work and he said I was "mad" but later he started giving way. He then said a flower had no charisma. So I asked do "ants" have charisma. Who draws the line where ... flower is living ... dog?