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Hi girls and boys.

I would really appreciate your help with the next character I am about to play. Good news - game will be run in (customized/homebrew) Pathfinder/Golarion setting (Varisia), all Paizo stuff is allowed, and most of 3rd party as well. Bad news - rolls are rather dismal, and couple of choices that I made can not be reversed. I will list here the non-changeable things and kindly ask for your help in making this at least a semi-playable character. Thanks a lot in advance.

Class - Cleric of Pharasma (godess of fate, rebirth, death and prophecy)
Race - Dhampir (Variant Dhampir Heritage Moroi-born, Svetocher; but variant heritage can be changed still)

Stat rolls (original): 6, 6, 11, 11, 13, 14

Current stats (can be changed, adjusted for dhampir/Moroi-born)

STR 8 (was 6)
DEX 11
CON 11 (was 13)
INT 6
WIS 14
CHA 13 (was 11)

Feats/traits - all else is changeable. I have a grand total of 2 feats and 2 traits available, or 3 feats (and no traits).

We're starting with 4 levels in NPC class (any) and then following up with 1 level in original class.

So currently, my dhampir has 4 levels of Adept (NPC class) and 1 level of cleric. Due to strange combo of Adept/Cleric levels, I am able to cast one spell of level 2 (due to bonus WIS), two lvl 1 Adept spells, one lvl 1 cleric spell, one domain lvl 1 spell, additional lvl 1 cleric spell (due to bonus WIS) and 3+3 Orisons (3 from adept list, 3 from cleric list).

Due to some good rolls at least, I have a grand total of 28 HP (20 HP from 4d6 rolls from 4 Adept levels, and full 8 HP from cleric 1st level). Current AC is 18 = 6 from breastplate and 2 from heavy shield (regular equipment can be adjusted/switched)

Familiar - Raven (from Adept class/can not be changed)

Additional starting "boon" - an item which gives +2 to Influence rolls (skills are combined, Influence=Diplomacy+Bluff) and most importantly maybe +2 bonus to DC of enchantment spells I cast. This item has other "unlockable" features (I do not know which ones), but my INT/CHA is too low at the moment.

Two other guys that I know will be playing are heavy damage dealers - a Shoanti barbarian, wielding an oversized greatsword (3d6 for dmg I think) and a Oracle of Metal, suited to a warrior role, and praying to Deity of War.

Your proposals are more than welcome :-)
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evangilist cleric(to boost everyone) that summons. your stats don't matter.

Any pet class: summoner, hunter, druid, spiritualist
Let your pet fight that will have far superior stats to you. If going animal can take boon companion to have a full leveled animal.

uh now those are some troubleome stats...
uhm echo the summon idea.
or stick to buffing cleric stuff maybe.

Its too bad its cleric.. some other classes could be far more usuable with that array and set up..

I might go with "durable caster" get buffs, though really.. with 4 levels in an npc class any casting of any sort is going to be extremly stiffled at that level.. Unless of course, the GM is adjusting to actual power level and not total level.
Frankly its a real problem.. having two seperate caster levels, and the more useful one being super low. Your familiar is goign to be forever stuck at 4 as well.

It sort of makes me want to suggest a prestige that'll help.. but I don't know which one..

Honestly I'm gonna go think about it a bit..

If your class of "cleric" wasn't a stuck choice. I would almost point you at the Artificer 3rd party class.

I would say that you need to get to envoy of balance as quickly as possible. Even though your stats are not ideal, the ability of the envoy to be able to channel both positive and negative energy will work wonders for you.

In the mean time I would suggest herald caller for summoning boosts and decent intelligence numbers to counter the low INT. For traits grab anything your allowed to that improves channeling in any way. If able, grab reactive healing feat to keep you on your feet when a bad blow comes your way. favored class bonus goes into health.

The other choice is an anti-paladin....self heal, full BAB, charisma based. It's enough to be workable.

Wow, these are some great options/advice's you gave me in here! Thanks a lot guys - I was not aware of any of the mentioned archetypes/prestige classes, but that is exactly why I asked you for the advice :-)

Artificer and anti-paladin are not available choices for me, but the summoning route (using Herald Caller as archetype until I qualify for Envoy of Balance) seems like a very reasonable way to go.

Loss of a domain and medium armor can (and will) hurt in the beginning, but let me weight pro's and con's and I will decide.

If I read this correctly (not sure if I understand the rules clearly), If I was to take Boon familiar as a feat, then my Master Class level would be 8th, correct? (since I got familar from 4 levels of NPC Adept). So, my Raven familiar would have an AC of 18 (14 default +4 from Boon familiar) and a total of 14 HP (half of my 28 HP)?

He would have an INT stat of 9 (way smarter than mine 6 INT, great role-play opportunities there, I love it!) and could also deliver touch spells for me. He would not advance any more (since I do not plan on taking any more adept levels), but at least his HP will grow with mine, regardless of my future class choices.

Sincere condolences on these stats ._.
Mihajlo Velickovic wrote:
Stat rolls (original): 6, 6, 11, 11, 13, 14

It's like the hypothetical situation I just talked about in a different thread came to life! Assuming that a 6 is worth -6 attribute points (the scale doesn't go down that far), you're working with a -2 point build. That's pretty amazing. That's in about the 2nd percentile of randomly rolled characters.

So, my advice - Synthesist. Wait - you can't change your class?

Darn... well, then, focus on summoning and buffing. Totally embrace the support role. You won't be able to do much for debuffing or directly harming the enemies but you'll definitely be able to cast Sanctuary and then summon monsters and use bless, prayer, etc., to make your allies better.

Great feat to look at: Sacred Summons. Oh, wait, you're serving a N diety? Never mind...
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Honest suggestion: Leave the game.

Any DM willing to allow their players to roll so terribly, and even forcing them to take 4 levels in NPC classes? Leave the game.
MeanMutton wrote:
Mihajlo Velickovic wrote:
Stat rolls (original): 6, 6, 11, 11, 13, 14

It's like the hypothetical situation I just talked about in a different thread came to life! Assuming that a 6 is worth -6 attribute points (the scale doesn't go down that far), you're working with a -2 point build. That's pretty amazing. That's in about the 2nd percentile of randomly rolled characters.

Look, I have to be honest here - GM did offer to me to re-roll stats. This is a matter of pure stubbornness (or stupidity, you decide for yourself :-) on my part. The other two players are fairly optimized, and they insist on min/maxing characters. I am trying to prove them that you can have a below-the-average character and still be effective and enjoy the game.

The GM in question is very open-minded to new ideas and approaches, so I am expecting to be able to do quite a lot within the role-playing part. But, I do know that he tends to prepare hard encounters (just the way I like them), and I am trying to do my best to prepare a well-rounded character (based on what is available to me) in order to survive and not simply be a hindrance to the party. I do not want to affect the "fun level" of my fellow PC's in a negative way (hopefully they will not have to save me every few rounds/fights), but I really want to use everything at my disposal (within the rules and spirit of the game, of course) to show them that you do not have to insist on 18+ in key attributes in order to have fun in the game.

Don't dump intelligence. You don't have combat stats, so take a trait to get UMD and max it. A lot of your later actions will be activating magic items.

Buffing and summoning.
Mihajlo Velickovic wrote:

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Look, I have to be honest here - GM did offer to me to re-roll stats. This is a matter of pure stubbornness (or stupidity, you decide for yourself :-) on my part. The other two players are fairly optimized, and they insist on min/maxing characters. I am trying to prove them that you can have a below-the-average character and still be effective and enjoy the game.

The GM in question is very open-minded to new ideas and approaches, so I am expecting to be able to do quite a lot within the role-playing part. But, I do know that he tends to prepare hard encounters (just the way I like them), and I am trying to do my best to prepare a well-rounded character (based on what is available to me) in order to survive and not simply be a hindrance to the party. I do not want to affect the "fun level" of my fellow PC's in a negative way (hopefully they will not have to save me every few rounds/fights), but I really want to use everything at my disposal (within the rules and spirit of the game, of course) to show them that you do not have to insist on 18+ in key attributes in order to have fun in the game.

mmm. I'm in the same camp of believing you can manage with a non optimized character.. the problem with it in your case however.. is because your team mates are optimizing and your not even standard below average (lets be honest your pretty critical; since your locked into various things) that. This won't help prove your ideal.

The problem is.. the GM has to adjust things.. so he'll either have to adjust thigns so you don't instant die-and your team mates will curb stomp everything.. proving your ideal on a false premise. or he'll have to adjust to give your team mates fun challenge-which will be extra curbstomping you.
Normally you can go with a standard even character in a pack of optimized, or a below standard if the group is standard. But your effectively too far removed for this.

If you can reroll you should really reroll.

As it stands it really will be stilted in most of the situations. Either in favor of not making it terribly unfair for you, or in favor of having them given a challenge.

I see no reason you can't reroll, and then play the even character. In fact I am pretty sure rerolling and getting even just a standard spread will prove your ideal far better. WIthout the false premise you can truly prove that a well made even character, with good RP, and clever playing can keep up and be enjoyable.

As it stands.. it runs the risk of being basically a RPG escourt mission.. "take this character and don't let them die. They'll toss healing and buffs out occasionally" There is a line where the game simply doesn't really work effectively--and it has nothing to do with optimization and the like. The rules simply assume a minimum of stats; which the NPC class and stat spread are in conflict with. You can easily over come one, or the other, but both at once is quite difficult. More so if the other players are not of similar ability.

though, if they're ok with it, your gm's ok with the extra work on their part. then definitely focus on buffs and summons.

POssibly heavily into summons (I don't know much about undead but my friend suggested that). Basically your going to have to keep a wall between you and enemies and potentially even hide once the fighting starts.
Your INT is pretty much going to make you non relavant outside of combat as well.. Assuming your GM has you roll thing still, and then modifies it based on your ability to RP. (If he/she is that type, then even if you RP amazingly, your high negative roll on diplomacy (because you have no skills) might mean you can't even politely talk to an innkeep for a room. That detail depends on how your Gm runs RP vs SKill points though.
but as others said the UMD thing can help and be terrribly useful

Just my thoughts, coming mostly from having similiar ideals, high optimizing play group, and such.

First off, congrats on being willing to live with bad stats. Some of the funnest roleplaying comes from messed up characters like that.

You have enough class levels that you should have an additional +1 to a stat, I'd put that into CON.

I think I would switch DEX and INT, and take heavy armor proficiency, that will give you an extra skill point, I imagine you will take spellcraft and knowledge religion since those are pretty important, and you don't want them penalized.

I second the evangelist archetype, that will let you contribute to combat no matter how much you suck.

The real issue is your 4 levels of Adept, if those aren't ever going to be retrained, you will have a very hard time being meaningful. A Martial character with of few levels of the warrior (or even the expert) NPC class losses out on a little bit of class features, but for the most part it doesn't hurt that much. BAB stacks.

Spellcasting doesn't stack though, and that is all you are. Facing CR 5 things with only level 1 cleric spells and up to level 2 adept spells is going to be rough, and it will pretty much get worse before it gets better. If those we be able to be retrained, it is only a short term problem and something you can deal with pretty well.

If not, and the cleric isn't set in stone, I would think about going Emperial bloodline sorcerer and moving into mystic theurge. Sure your casting will still be behind, but at least you will eventually get something out of that.

Another clarification - 4 levels of adept (or any other NPC class) are there for our survivability :-) We are still considered ECL 1 party (and with 1 lvl of cleric, I am a CL 1 caster), and will be probably be facing CR 2-4 challenges along the way, so - "doable" :-)
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Yeah, I figured the NPC levels were "padding," but thank you for clarifying that.
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