I wouldn't talk them into switching characters, but maybe increase the point buy to 25, and make sure to add some healing potions in monsters' loot. They'll be fine.
It's not that bad, you have 3 that can heal and the inquisitor will work with the hunter's animal as the frlont liner. Also both can use teamwork feat.
It's actually fine. The rogue is the odd man out. If he flipped to something like magus, skald, alchemist, investigator, or occultist that would work out better.
Unless the rogue player is just vastly better at the game than everyone else, he/she will have problems. At a bare minimum force them to upgrade to the Unchained Rogue version.
You don't need a fullcaster in a full 3/4th BAB caster party.
^Just had a thought: In addition to having the Rogue be Unchained, have the Rogue take the Eldritch Scoundrel archetype (becomes a 6/9 arcane caster). Problem solved.
An alternative (still using Unchained Rogue) is to take the Underground Chemist archetype and go VMC Alchemist -- the latter is normally bad, but Underground Chemist Rogue fills in the crucial piece that it is missing and makes it actually good. Then get Alchemist Discoveries that turn Bombs into battlefield control options. Or just be an Alchemist (or Investigator).
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My advice for getting new players into the game is to let them play whatever they want. If some of them start dying, you sit them down and ask if they know why. If they do, then make sure they understand they should try to avoid it happening again. If they don't you should gently explain what you think caused death.
Let them play what they want to play. If they get TPK'd because they don't have a real healer or caster, then they will learn from it and develop different characters next time. Then again, they just might surprise you with their tenacity.
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It sounds like an overall decent party. They'll just need scrolls for condition removal. It's not guaranteed, but I'd expect all of the casters to have learned cure light wounds.
The only real issue I can see them having a ton of trouble with is the Haunt in book 2 or 3? I forget which one. Without a divine caster, there no way that I'm aware of to beat that thing.
Sadly, I have a hard time ever even considering Rogue when vivisectionist alchemist exists and is just so amazing. Even if you don't double up with beastmorph, alchemist is just so freaking nice.
Admittedly, I haven't looked too hard at trying to optimize a rogue, though.
The party composition sounds fine, though; hopefully the inquisitor understands the need to play a slightly tougher frontliner.
25 point buy is a nice suggestion. Our group uses the feat tax suggestions from the World is Square with a couple additions (Toughness and Endurance is a single, combined feat in our games.) We also add your Con score to starting hit points, which we've found extremely enjoyable (and I tend to give baddies extra hp, often just maxing out their HD - it just smooths things out and makes damage a little less spiky.)
Looks like a solid party to me. Only thing missing, unless someone has an usual build, is good battlefield control, but a lot of strikers, particularly with archery, can overcome that detriment pretty easy.
You could just let them know that if they reveal any weaknesses in the party through play, it's up to them to brain up a solution. It could be a cohort to handle weak areas not already covered, it could be multiclassing, investing in more UMD, whatever. Letting them know that now may start wheels grinding so they can prepare for it as they level up.
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Hello! I'm about to start up a Rise of the Runelords campaign, and I've got a group of brand new players. One has played 3.5 extensively, the other three are brand new to tabletop RPGs. I let them choose their own characters, and they ended up with the following:
Halfling Hunter
Halfling Bard
Elf Rogue
Human InquisitorThe Hunter and Bard are going to be bow focused, the Inquisitor melee. I'm worried about this party composition. They don't have a full caster (either Divine or Arcane) and they don't have a full BAB character. The Inquisitor is their main healer and tank, with the Hunter pet also soaking some attacks.
I'm worried about this party composition. I'm hoping to run the module mostly as-is. I gave them 20 point buy, and I'm using the optional Hero Point system. Thoughts? Should I try to talk one of them into switching characters?
This should work fine, for now. Buffing, healing, melee, and ranged are all pretty well covered.
As they gain levels, the rogue may want to consider multiclassing into wizard (if Int is at least 13 or 14); not to spoil much, but this is a very wizard-friendly AP. The rogue may also start to feel like they aren't as effective once the bard, hunter, and inquisitor start hitting their stride. Going rogue 3/wizard (Evocation/Admixture school) 3/arcane trickster makes a pretty effective blaster/controller (since they can Sneak Attack with ranged touch damage spells), along with Ranged Legerdemain for additional utility in dealing with locks and traps. Rogue 1/brawler (snakebite striker archetype) 1/wizard 3/arcane trickster also works (with better spell progression, but without rogue talents like Trap Spotter), but requires early commitment.
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Hello! I'm about to start up a Rise of the Runelords campaign, and I've got a group of brand new players. One has played 3.5 extensively, the other three are brand new to tabletop RPGs. I let them choose their own characters, and they ended up with the following:
Halfling Hunter
Halfling Bard
Elf Rogue
Human InquisitorThe Hunter and Bard are going to be bow focused, the Inquisitor melee. I'm worried about this party composition. They don't have a full caster (either Divine or Arcane) and they don't have a full BAB character. The Inquisitor is their main healer and tank, with the Hunter pet also soaking some attacks.
I'm worried about this party composition. I'm hoping to run the module mostly as-is. I gave them 20 point buy, and I'm using the optional Hero Point system. Thoughts? Should I try to talk one of them into switching characters?
Usually your title, "Imbalanced party," means that the druid's animal companion is twice as good at melee as the fighter and the wizard's familiar is twice as good at scouting as the rogue, so the fighter and rogue feel useless. But hunter, bard, and inquisitor are well-balanced classes, and I hear unchained rogue fixes many weaknesses in the rogue class, so your party is balanced.
It will do fine in the first module. Some gaps in anticipated abilities will show up in later modules, but those can be fixed by letting the party play to their strengths and letting them find alternatives to solving everything by casting a big spell or having an indestructible combatant hold the front line.
My wife and I once ran the 3.5 version of Rise of the Runelords as a Pathfinder game. I am not quite up on the changes for the anniversary edition, but I have some pointers, which are also spoilers.
And our party was great at information gathering, not so good at combat. Thus, my wife, the GM for the first two and a half modules, found ways to feed the party information that let us prepare for upcoming combats and gain an advantage. When I took over as GM, I returned Xanesha as a double agent: she had escaped after being thwarted and hoped that the party would kill her boss so that her boss would not realize that she ahd failed. By the last module, which was written as fights against lamia and giants in the lost city of Xin-Shalast, the party secretly worked with factions in Xin-Shalast to create a civil war between the lamia and giants and took on Karzong in the confusion. The module can be played differently than intended. All it takes is a little creativity.
Your party is well balanced. But lacking full spellcasters, they will lack the most powerful spells. To them, spells will be a tool, not a solution. Look ahead for any trouble spots, such as haunts, were spells are the easy solution, and make sure that they have some warning to find other solutions that might require preparation, "Foxglove Manor is known to be haunted! Lord Foxglove is brave to try to rebuild the place." Another problem is unexpected condition removal, such as Remove Disease if anyone becomes infected with ghoul fever while fighting ghouls in the second module. Our cleric had dropped out of the game before then, so our party ended up taking a ship down to Magnimar to pay a temple for a cure. Scrolls are a good measure.
And as Cavall said, they have the makings of a stealthy party, which is a way to face ogres and giants. Ogres and giants lack versatility, so if the party can select the battlefield through stealth and cunning, they will have the advantage. This is a nonmagical version of battlefield control. Reward them early for stealth and cunning, so they develop those strengths.
^Mathmuse
Indeed my biggest dissatisfaction with RotRL was the disconnection between campaigns. What a cool way to connect the campaigns and give the players time to build/prepare!
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This title is entirely misleading. That's one of the most balanced party make ups I've ever seen. Like people have mentioned, it's a little short on the arcane and removal spells, but that's not really the end of the world. And a vivisectionist alchemist would be a great way to fill those niches if the rogue were inclined to switch over. I'd likely allow the trapfinder trait from Mummy's Mask if they did, just so they could maintain the trapspotter/disabler roll in the party, if that's what they were looking to do.
This title is entirely misleading. That's one of the most balanced party make ups I've ever seen. Like people have mentioned, it's a little short on the arcane and removal spells, but that's not really the end of the world.
Well, there are different kinds of balanced. There's the balance between relatively evenly powered characters. There's also the balance with methods and composition - in this case, heavy stealth and skills, low on powerful magic and, as you point out, removal spells.
I think the point here is to recognize when you've got some form of imbalance and then work with it - maybe ameliorating it, maybe changing the campaign's focus a little, maybe feeding it so it can be better exploited by the players...
I think this is actually an excellent party so long as they are carefully assembled, unfortunately the players are new so they will need some guidance. The party is more then capable of handling the rise of the runelords aventure so long as you get them to do the following (and obviously support the effort)
1. Bard should have a good Use Magic Device skill.
2. The party should stock up on utility/condition removel scrolls (Between the bard and the inquisitor they should be able to use most of them) and a wand or two of healing.
3. The hunter should choose one of the better combat animal companions (personal preference is big cat) and its first feat should be light armor proficiency and give it light barding armor as soon as possible (you might want to either provide a specific piece of loot for this or provide some other assistance so they can afford it). And ofcourse make sure the hunter doesn't forget to buff his companion using spells and his animal focus (which is always on for the animal companion).
4. Make sure they take advantage of the bards buffing capability. With what amounts to a 5 person party (hunters animal companion being a 5th set of actions) the bards buffing will be a big asset. They are effectively a force multiplier.
5. Make sure the rogue is descent melee combatant and has a good acrobatics score so they can get into the positions they need for flanking(doable with the unchained rogue)
1 and 2 cover more or less the 'needs' of full casters. Though I assure you a party with 3 6 level casters can get through a standard AP.
3 makes it so the inquisitor has a solid front line partner and the rogue has ample flanking buddies.
4 and 5 means your party will be able to steam roll most straightforward encounters in the book as written.
This party will be fine so long as you as the dm supports them and they recognize both the strengths and weaknesses of this party.
It's a great party, they can make everything!
I'run RotRL with a party of only combact classes and just a Bard as spellcaster and they play great.
From 5 module till the end a full spellcaster can help alot but bard+inquisitor+hunter with the right feats and spells can do a great game!