Say you have a baseline, run-of-the-mill orc. Orcs have the racial trait Ferocity, which, basically, prevents them from falling unconcious at 0hp. Their still staggered and still bleed out.
Now, examine the feat Diehard. This feat, among other things, STABILIZES you when you hp are at or below 0.
What happens if our orc has Diehard? Is it the same as Ferocity with the added bonus of auto-stabilizing? Does Diehard's penalty of inflicting 1 damage with a standard action negate the effects of Ferocity?
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Stable"A character who was dying but who has stopped losing hit points each round and still has negative hit points is stable. The character is no longer dying, but is still unconscious."
"Ferocity: Orcs can remain conscious and continue fighting even if their hit point totals fall below 0. Orcs are still staggered at 0 hit points or lower and lose 1 hit point each round as normal."
"Disabled:...He moves at half speed. Taking move actions doesn't risk further injury, but performing any standard action (or any other action the GM deems strenuous, including some free actions such as casting a quickened spell) deals 1 point of damage after the completion of the act. Unless the action increased the disabled character's hit points, he is now in negative hit points and dying."
Diehard: "When your hit point total is below 0, but you are not dead, you automatically stabilize. You do not need to make a Constitution check each round to avoid losing additional hit points. You may choose to act as if you were disabled, rather than dying. You must make this decision as soon as you are reduced to negative hit points (even if it isn't your turn). If you do not choose to act as if you were disabled, you immediately fall unconscious."
Nothing is being negated except that you automatically stabilize if you choose, and if you do you are unconscious. If you choose to stay up, you will lose a point every round and are disabled basically
Sidenote: free action such as casting a quickened spell? Ooops. That one somehow slipped by them.
How I interpret Ferocity + Diehard.
Orc goes into the negatives. They lose 1 hp as normal unless he has Diehard at which point he stabilizes and does not lose any hps.
If he then performs a strenuous action he takes 1 hp of damage and again stabilizes.
It is worth noting that my interpretation may not absolutely RAW. To me RAW is unclear in this particular combination.
- Gauss
So basically it becomes a choice of which I want to operate. Either stable but unconcious or active but disabled.
So, would an orc fighter/barbarian benifit more from the Unbreakable archetype or the Two-Handed Fighter archetype?
If you're going to be looking into playing the 'unkillabe' type orc, I'd suggest Unbreakable. You get Diehard and Endurance for free, for one thing. From there, look into the Deathless Feat Tree... At least the first two.
I rolled up a straight orc unbreakable fighter, and specced him out to lvl 20 utilizing a lot of the 'you cant kill/disable me' type feats. After some mock battles vs various monsters and NPCs (using beastiary and adventure paths at appropriate levels), this guy was able to solo and outlast quite a few of them. Add in a party, and it'd only be logical that he'd out-survive almost anything.
Edit: So a fighter/barbarian, while not really adding 2 to the con score needed in order to get +40 more damage needed to, you know, not get killed, the added HP from Barbarian and some of their rage powers would slot in well, make for a more offensive one than the fighter I rolled up. Feat progression to eventually be able to act mostly normal while below 0 hps would be slower, but eh.
Personally, I loathe to give up both armor and weapon training which the Unbrakable archetype replaces. I also prefer the certain and easily optimized power of the two-handed power attacking fighter.
Claxon, you dont lose Armor Training 1 and 2. Those are the important ones. Armor Training 3 and 4 is rarely ever needed anyhow.
Weapon Training is a big loss but the Unbreakable Half-Orc in my weekend game hasnt noticed the loss. She still kicks major butt.
She really does survive almost anything and still does major damage. She also has the feat Tenacious Survivor. "It's only a flesh wound!"
- Gauss
Oh yeah, this works. Ignore all but outright lethal wounds? Yes, please.
So, hes now an Unbreakable Fighter 5/Invulnerable Rager Barbarian 4. Think I'll pump his next levels into barbarian till he can take the Come and Get Me rage power.
Come on, free shot. Me first! POWER ATTACKING LARGE ADAMANTINE +1 IMPACT BASTARD SWORD!
Thanks for the input, guys!