Help with making a throwing build

[SepthSilver]

Hey guys,

I would like to make a throwing based character. I'm currently thinking chakrams, but anything thrown is fine. All paizo content is allowed, but no ninjas/gunslingers/alchemists. Core races only.

Any thoughts on the weapon master's handbook?

Stats are 17 15 14 9 7 7

Thanks in advance,
Septhsilver

[Gray Warden]

First of all, these stats suck! 5/6 are odd, which means that is equivalent to 16 14 14 8 6 6. Really? You need high dexterity, so the 17 is out. Then you need a positive constitution, so 14 is out too. Finally you need to put some static damage on your attacks through strength. 15 is out. So your mental stats are 9 7 7, or 8 6 6, which is horrible! You won't speak with anyone, you will fail any will save and you will have so few skill points that you will be useless, if not detrimental, out of combat. Did you roll them? Rolling stats is, IMHO, quite obsolete and stupid.

I really recommend you to ask your master if all your party can use point buy with 20 points.

That said, I would go with Fighter. I would have also added Ranger and Monk for the Flurry (no need for Rapid Shot, TWF...), but with these stats you would lose the Ranger's spellcasting, while the Monk would just be impossible.

Feats:
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Rapid Shot
Two Weapon Fighting (and Improved and Greater)
Deadly Aim
Double Slice
Quick Draw*

*Quick Draw is mandatory if you can get a Blinkback Belt. This way you will upgrade a single light/one-handed weapon (Starknife if you need range, Daggers if you need high crit-range) that you'll be using over and over for all your attacks. If you can't get it, then just use ammunition (shuriken, darts,...) that don't require a move action to be drawn. In that case, you don't need Quick Draw.

Here some progressions (I'll consider also Ranger and Monk in case you can change you stats):

Human Fighter 6
15 17+2 14 7 9 7

1 PBS
1 Precise Shot
1B Deadly Aim
2 Rapid Shot (use ammunition while you wait to get the belt)
3 TWF
4 Double Slice
5 Quick Draw (you should be able to afford the belt at this point)
6 Improved TWF

Human Ranger 7
15 17+2 14 7 9 7 (get a +2 Wis headband asap)

1 TWF
1B Deadly Aim
2 Precise Shot (Archery Style)
3 Double Slice
5 Quick Draw
6 Rapid Shot
7 Improved TWF

Human Monk 7, use shurikens with the Flurry until you get the belt. Then, use a deer horn Knife. You'll need to become proficient though.
15 17+2 14 7 9 7 (+2 Wis asap; the belt will be useless until you get Quick Draw)

1 PBS
1 Dodge
1B Precise Shot
2 Throw Anything
3 Deadly Aim
5 Exotic Weapon Prof (deer horn Knife)
6 Mobility
7 Quick Draw

[Bob_Loblaw]

Build a hulking hurler and throw quall's feather tokens: anchor.

[Riuken]

So this is a bit odd, but bear with me: paladin (mostly).

First off, you'll need to be a human. You're trying to do ranged combat, and that requires feats. Secondly, you're taking your first 2 levels as fighter. Once you start taking paladin, you'll also be selecting an Oath of Vengeance.

STR 15 (increase at 8)
DEX 17 (19) (increase at 12)
CON 9 (increase at 4)
INT 7
WIS 7
CHA 14 (increase at 16 and 20)

Feats
human: point-blank shot
1st: precise shot
F1: quick draw
F2: rapid shot
3rd: deadly aim
5th: TWF
7th: ITWF
9th: double slice
11th: two-weapon rend

You will need one chakram that is at least +1 returning. You will use this for your weapon bond at level 7 (paladin 5). It will always be your first attack, and any other attacks you make in a round will be made with mundane chakrams. Your go-to here is smite evil, which removes troublesome DR that could otherwise cripple your multiple mundane attacks. You're using channel wrath from your oath to get more from your LoH uses. This also gives you a base damage increase that you'll be in need of.

This is really just another option. In all seriousness, any ranged build that isn't using a blinkback belt is pretty rough to do. The paladin thing is more of a "traditional" thrown build, where the only non-core component is the oath, which you don't really need. If you do this build with a blinkback belt, you won't need any mundane chakrams, and could instead just use 1 without the returning property. Get the enhancement bonus as high as possible, and add properties with weapon bond when needed (like flaming or holy).

EDIT: this also exists I Throw a Rock at it!

[SepthSilver]

Gray Warden wrote:

*snip*

First of all thank you very much. Nothing I can do about the stats really.

What are your thoughts on the Startoss style feat chain?

Also; would I be able to mitigate the blink back belt by using this feat:

Ricochet Toss (Weapon Mastery)
You are able to angle your thrown weapon attacks in such
a way that the weapon ricochets and immediately returns
to you.
Prerequisites: Quick Draw, base attack bonus +6, weapon
training class feature with a ranged weapon.
Benefit: When you make a ranged attack with an
appropriate thrown weapon, the weapon returns to your
hand immediately after the attack is resolved. This ability
does not allow bullets, thrown ammunition such as darts
or shuriken, or thrown splash weapons to return to you.
Improvised thrown weapons don’t return to you unless
you have the Throw Anything feat.

I could then pick up a belt of mighty hurling later, and with that would it be better to go 17 STR 17 DEX, as eventually the DEX will just be for AC?

[Riuken]

The only issue with Ricochet Toss is that it comes online at level 6 at the earliest. You could have been getting more attacks from rapid shot, TWF, and haste before then. It's otherwise a solid investment.

To be honest, I avoid using too much strength in a thrown build because it becomes all too obvious very quickly that I could just pick up a large stick (quarterstaff/greatclub) and do better damage that way. For most uses of thrown weapons it looks more like switch hitting than an actual go-to style.

[V for Vastatio]

Flying Blade Swashbuckler (at least 3 for disrupting counter), daggers, startoss style.

You can dump strength, at least if you are not starting at level 1, because you will get your level to damage and startoss is worth an extra 6 damage if you grab all 3 feats.
Human, point blank shot, weapon focus dagger, trait river rat for +1 damage with daggers. Startoss style + startoss shower and comet, deadly aim, martial focus and ricochet toss, deific obedience Pharasma for +2 to hit with daggers, combat reflexes, precise shot, QuickDraw (you can get all 3 from 2 levels of far strike monk) ...

Lots of feats. Fortuitous dagger eventually.
High dex, medium cha and con. Human + favored class bonus and a 7 int still means you get 4 skill points a level as a swashbuckler.

Normal round looks like, walk up to melee enemy, throw dagger into his face with startoss style, if he takes his attack of opportunity, spend one panache and disrupting counter, hit him for 1d4+20, use fortuitous weapon to hit him again for 1d4+20, he then finishes his AoO at a -4. Then finish your throw on him for 1d4 +26 (deadly aim), as well as attacks on 2-3 of his friends. If he(or his friends) die, you get the panache back to keep disrupting.

Unlike opportune party and riposte, disrupting counter is only an opportunity attack action. Not an immediate. So with combat reflexes and a boat load of panache, you can V for Vendetta everyone.

[Woodoodoo]

I think starknifes would work better for the flying blade since you can get dex to damage through the Starry grace feat.

[Zwordsman]

I also vote starry grace and star blades, along with startoss

[Firebug]

But consider the crit chance, and getting back panache. Deific obedience also can add +2 to hit with daggers, river rat for +1 damage with daggers, piercing or slashing, common weapon, bonus to sleight of hand to hide it, fits in a spring loaded wrist sheath for low level quick draw, 2gp vs 24gp for low level.

And starry grace is another feat on an already feat intensive build. Essentially you would trade deific obedience for Dex to damage. +2 to hit vs 5-7 damage. Probably less, because river rat. 50% hit chance for 33 average, vs 60% for 28. Dagger is actually ahead.

[Riuken]

I think, much like double slice, dex-to-damage won't actually give as good of returns as you're thinking, especially if you have to wait more than a few levels for it.

[Firebug]

To be clear
50% 33.5 =16.75
60% 28.5=17.1

I pulled 28.5 average damage from 1d4 (2.5) + 26 which I estimated up thread (swash 9, monk 2). +9 swashbuckler, +6 deadly aim, +6 startoss, +2 swash weapon training, +1 PBS, +1 martial focus, +1 river rat, +1 enhancement, -1 str. At least until +2 str ioun.

If you are dumping every stat bump into dex, and spending the full gp for a +6 item, then yes starknives will edge out daggers in damage... unless you take into account the extra panache from critting and the higher chance of confirming the crit with daggers. Each crit is worth an extra attack (or 2, w/fortuitous weapon) if something attacks you.

At the numbers above, starknives will confirm a crit 5% of the time (19-20 imp crit swash weapon training, 50% hit), and the dagger will be at 12% to confirm a crit per attack.

My PFS version of this character started out with a level of medium and spirit focus for +2 to hit, +4 damage (champion), I am currently debating if I only want to keep 3 levels of swashbuckler, and go 8 vigilante, losing monk 2 and medium 1. I'd lose some damage, but damage isn't everything in PFS.