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Say a LG rogue and a paladin have very strong views on undead and afterlife judgement, why can't these two worship pharasma? What force stops them from giving pharasma a prayer now and again?
Nothing. A LG paladin may infact wish someone that recently deceased a pleasant meeting with pharasma. Or please Gozreh don't sink my boat. Or stop at a shrine to desna and pray for a traveler.
But such occasional prayers do not constitute worship. Worship is a real, emotional connection with a being other than yourself and obedience to their mandates. Even a nagaji paladin with an int of 5 is going to eventually notice a bit of a contradiction between doing good and the family's bi annual human sacrifice and BBQ cookout.
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Mortals don't really get our music, I've discovered.
Well, you all did go througth 5 Adams before you all figured out that you you had to channel through Allan Rickman instead. :)
And lo, on the third day. God invented the squeegie...
Nothing. A LG paladin may infact wish someone that recently deceased a pleasant meeting with pharasma. Or please Gozreh don't sink my boat. Or stop at a shrine to desna and pray for a traveler.
But such occasional prayers do not constitute worship. Worship is a real, emotional connection with a being other than yourself and obedience to their mandates. Even a nagaji paladin with an int of 5 is going to eventually notice a bit of a contradiction between doing good and the family's bi annual human sacrifice and BBQ cookout.
Based on that I've met like two religious people ever. Most people don't have to dedicate their lives to their religion just be considered worshiping their deity.
You don't have to be a priest or something just be worship something. Also, in PF eating people isn't evil.
If being a paladin was easy everyone would do it.
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If being a paladin was easy everyone would do it.
Nothing in the rules suggests that it's hard to be a paladin, as long as you maintain your alignment and don't break the code of conduct your fine. To be honest, most LG PC's I've seen played could have chosen to be a paladin and would have never risked falling at any point.
Easier to be a paladin than a LG warpriest if you ask me since paladins don't answer to gods.
If being a paladin was easy everyone would do it.
Even the people who enjoy studying magic academically?
And the people who enjoy nature walks?
And bounty hunters?
And vampires?
And dragons?
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Personally, I don't think the pathfinder paladins are very good characters, and much is subject to point of view regarding the "good" champions they are. Paladins are typically portrayed as bigots which create sterotypes of what is evil and persecute it with a shoot first, ask questions later, attitude.
Rather than paladins being inherently lawful good, I'd much rather see the paladin class altered to a custom code per each deity, with the required alignment being exactly that of the deity. That way, at least, players would be playing an alignment they could actually play.
If being a paladin was easy everyone would do it.
One of the easiest classes is the paladin because most DMs don't seem to really understand the alignments very well.
I rarely see lawful paladins and I rarely see good paladins. Chaotic or Lawful Neutral seem to the be the common paladin alignments based on how the players play the character.
I did see a player with a very metagaming Lawful Good paladin, which would always be conveniently preoccupied whenever the party would do something evil or unlawful. And they'd never ask questions of what the party was doing while their back was turned. Terrible roleplaying, but I suppose that does qualify as lawful good.
Personally, I got more flakk from playing a Lawful Neutral Barbarian than I've ever seen a paladin get. Yeah, totally missed that barbarians can't be lawful, but it really didn't seem unreasonable when making the character.
Warpriest is a class for a reason.
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Rather than paladins being inherently lawful good, I'd much rather see the paladin class altered to a custom code per each deity, with the required alignment being exactly that of the deity. That way, at least, players would be playing an alignment they could actually play.
Everyone forgets that all of the major gods that are within 1 step of LG have Paladin codes of their own that you can choose to follow. They are found in Inner Sea Gods, I think Inner Sea Faiths might have some too?
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Everyone forgets that all of the major gods that are within 1 step of LG have Paladin codes of their own that you can choose to follow. They are found in Inner Sea Gods, I think Inner Sea Faiths might have some too?
Rather than paladins being inherently lawful good, I'd much rather see the paladin class altered to a custom code per each deity, with the required alignment being exactly that of the deity. That way, at least, players would be playing an alignment they could actually play.
I recall that, I just don't think restrictive alignments generate PCs that actually follow those alignments. I'd much rather have players playing alignments they can actually play, than feeling compelled to take alignments they can't RP very well.
The different codes are neat, but I'd rather have the code specific to the alignment of the deity, rather than the generic LG alignment.
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Everyone forgets that all of the major gods that are within 1 step of LG have Paladin codes of their own that you can choose to follow. They are found in Inner Sea Gods, I think Inner Sea Faiths might have some too?
Rather than paladins being inherently lawful good, I'd much rather see the paladin class altered to a custom code per each deity, with the required alignment being exactly that of the deity. That way, at least, players would be playing an alignment they could actually play.I recall that, I just don't think restrictive alignments generate PCs that actually follow those alignments. I'd much rather have players playing alignments they can actually play, than feeling compelled to take alignments they can't RP very well.
The different codes are neat, but I'd rather have the code specific to the alignment of the deity, rather than the generic LG alignment.
Then play a Cleric or Warpriest? Paladins have abilities that are very very clearly tied to the LG alignment. Though I am in favor of archetypes that allow for a different alignment, which also modify the class' abilities. Like Martial Artist for Monk.
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Then play a Cleric or Warpriest? Paladins have abilities that are very very clearly tied to the LG alignment. Though I am in favor of archetypes that allow for a different alignment, which also modify the class' abilities. Like Martial Artist for Monk.
Sorry, didn't mean to complain. Just saying how the class should function in my eyes. Seemed on topic.
Yeah, I love the martial artist removing the monk alignment restriction. Wish we had a version of that for the barbarian, paladin, and any other classes with alignment restrictions.
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Everyone forgets that all of the major gods that are within 1 step of LG have Paladin codes of their own that you can choose to follow. They are found in Inner Sea Gods, I think Inner Sea Faiths might have some too?
I prefer to imagine they don't exist, since it sounds a lot more interesting to me that paladins get their power from objective good rather than the desires and powers of a biased god.
Keep your gods away from my paladins!
*Shakes fist at clouds*
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Everyone forgets that all of the major gods that are within 1 step of LG have Paladin codes of their own that you can choose to follow. They are found in Inner Sea Gods, I think Inner Sea Faiths might have some too?I prefer to imagine they don't exist, since it sounds a lot more interesting to me that paladins get their power from objective good rather than the desires and powers of a biased god.
Keep your gods away from my paladins!
*Shakes fist at clouds*
Player choice. A player can play a Paladin that doesn't worship any gods, or who follows the generic code instead of their god's code.
Everyone forgets that all of the major gods that are within 1 step of LG have Paladin codes of their own that you can choose to follow. They are found in Inner Sea Gods, I think Inner Sea Faiths might have some too?I prefer to imagine they don't exist, since it sounds a lot more interesting to me that paladins get their power from objective good rather than the desires and powers of a biased god.
Keep your gods away from my paladins!
*Shakes fist at clouds*
Funny, I feel the opposite way. My preference as a player is to worship a deity.
Everyone forgets that all of the major gods that are within 1 step of LG have Paladin codes of their own that you can choose to follow. They are found in Inner Sea Gods, I think Inner Sea Faiths might have some too?I prefer to imagine they don't exist, since it sounds a lot more interesting to me that paladins get their power from objective good rather than the desires and powers of a biased god.
Keep your gods away from my paladins!
*Shakes fist at clouds*
How could it be more interesting to get your powers from a nameless force? That sounds more like a bad video game than a story.
Funny, I feel the opposite way. My preference as a player is to worship a deity.
The paladin can still worship a deity. Just accomplishes as much as a fighter or rogue worshipping a deity. If you want to get power from a deity be an cleric/inquisitor/warpriest/archetype that makes you divine based (I'm pretty sure there is one of those for paladin).
How could it be more interesting to get your powers from a nameless force? That sounds more like a bad video game than a story.
It's an objective force. It's like if you got your powers from Gravity. Not a guy really strong gravity powers, but gravity itself.
Gods have the alignment they have because it describes their views, not because they are pillars of that alignment. But "captial G" Good, is good not because it matches it's personality and actions, it's good because that is what it objectively is in totality.
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Funny, I feel the opposite way. My preference as a player is to worship a deity.The paladin can still worship a deity. Just accomplishes as much as a fighter or rogue worshipping a deity.
Clerics derive their divine power directly from their deity if they worship one. Paladins don't have this explicit in their rules... But its rather odd to say that a Paladin couldn't have their power derived directly from the god they worship if they worship one within 1 alignment step.
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... What kind of GM makes Wish powerful enough to kill at least thousands of people across at least continents, if not planets and/or planes anyhow?Good luck getting rid of me! Why you'd have to pull Golarion into some sort of pocket dimension and wipe out all recorded history of how it was done to shut me up. But, I mean *nervous chuckle* they'll never do THAT...So I know it works in other settings, but if you killed off all the worshipers of a God, erased all record of them and all that jazz, would that kill said God?
Hell, a Wish spell or two could in theory (depending on the DM I suppose) starve out any God or Goddess if that's true.
Killing ain't needed. Just laser guided amnesia.
"I wish everyone forgot about [person/god]."
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If being a paladin was easy everyone would do it.Probably not. Class isn't THAT good.
Aye. But options are limited as the DM is only allowing Core classes, otherwise I'd be rolling up a Warpriest. Or a Kineticist >.>
Edit: Also, decided on Apsu as the patron deity for my Paladin for purposes of Evangelist (thank you Inner Sea Faiths!). Also gets a nifty amulet that allows for a breath weapon and Eagle's Splendor.
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If being a paladin was easy everyone would do it.Probably not. Class isn't THAT good.Aye. But options are limited as the DM is only allowing Core classes, otherwise I'd be rolling up a Warpriest. Or a Kineticist >.>
Edit: Also, decided on Apsu as the patron deity for my Paladin for purposes of Evangelist (thank you Inner Sea Faiths!). Also gets a nifty amulet that allows for a breath weapon and Eagle's Splendor.
The weird thing about Apsu is that it's RARE for non-Draconics to worship him, since as a God he is very singularly focused on his opposition of Dahak. The like... 2 human churches that exist on Golarion are almost entirely focused on performing the tasks requested of them by Apsu's Dragon representatives (usually Bronze) to help ensure that Dahak and his followers don't gain too much strength... though these Dragons usually feel that they do not require the help of humans so these requests are rare. The only care Apsu has for Golarion is that Dahak and he will have their final battle there... otherwise he focuses on Triaxus.
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Why do people keep suggesting this?
"I want to be a paladin, and worship an evil deity!"
Does no one understand how silly that sounds?
"I want to be a vegan, and eat steak!"
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Why do people keep suggesting this?
"I want to be a paladin, and worship an evil deity!"
Does no one understand how silly that sounds?
"I want to be a vegan, and eat steak!"
Especially since it only takes one glass of milk to be stripped of your Vegan Powers.
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The weird thing about Apsu is that it's RARE for non-Draconics to worship him, since as a God he is very singularly focused on his opposition of Dahak. The like... 2 human churches that exist on Golarion are almost entirely focused on performing the tasks requested of them by Apsu's Dragon representatives (usually Bronze) to help ensure that Dahak and his followers don't gain too much strength... though these Dragons usually feel that they do not require the help of humans so these requests are rare. The only care Apsu has for Golarion is that Dahak and he will have their final battle there... otherwise he focuses on Triaxus.If being a paladin was easy everyone would do it.Probably not. Class isn't THAT good.Aye. But options are limited as the DM is only allowing Core classes, otherwise I'd be rolling up a Warpriest. Or a Kineticist >.>
Edit: Also, decided on Apsu as the patron deity for my Paladin for purposes of Evangelist (thank you Inner Sea Faiths!). Also gets a nifty amulet that allows for a breath weapon and Eagle's Splendor.
*Grumbles* Well back to Sarenrae I suppose unless I can sorta cheese my way into having a paladin of Brigh or something.
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*Grumbles* Well back to Sarenrae I suppose unless I can sorta cheese my way into having a paladin of Brigh or something.The weird thing about Apsu is that it's RARE for non-Draconics to worship him, since as a God he is very singularly focused on his opposition of Dahak. The like... 2 human churches that exist on Golarion are almost entirely focused on performing the tasks requested of them by Apsu's Dragon representatives (usually Bronze) to help ensure that Dahak and his followers don't gain too much strength... though these Dragons usually feel that they do not require the help of humans so these requests are rare. The only care Apsu has for Golarion is that Dahak and he will have their final battle there... otherwise he focuses on Triaxus.If being a paladin was easy everyone would do it.Probably not. Class isn't THAT good.Aye. But options are limited as the DM is only allowing Core classes, otherwise I'd be rolling up a Warpriest. Or a Kineticist >.>
Edit: Also, decided on Apsu as the patron deity for my Paladin for purposes of Evangelist (thank you Inner Sea Faiths!). Also gets a nifty amulet that allows for a breath weapon and Eagle's Splendor.
Pshaw, you can worship Apsu as a Paladin all you want. The organization of the faith is just somewhat limited, that's the only caveat. Otherwise you just follow the code.
*Grumbles* Well back to Sarenrae I suppose unless I can sorta cheese my way into having a paladin of Brigh or something.The weird thing about Apsu is that it's RARE for non-Draconics to worship him, since as a God he is very singularly focused on his opposition of Dahak. The like... 2 human churches that exist on Golarion are almost entirely focused on performing the tasks requested of them by Apsu's Dragon representatives (usually Bronze) to help ensure that Dahak and his followers don't gain too much strength... though these Dragons usually feel that they do not require the help of humans so these requests are rare. The only care Apsu has for Golarion is that Dahak and he will have their final battle there... otherwise he focuses on Triaxus.If being a paladin was easy everyone would do it.Probably not. Class isn't THAT good.Aye. But options are limited as the DM is only allowing Core classes, otherwise I'd be rolling up a Warpriest. Or a Kineticist >.>
Edit: Also, decided on Apsu as the patron deity for my Paladin for purposes of Evangelist (thank you Inner Sea Faiths!). Also gets a nifty amulet that allows for a breath weapon and Eagle's Splendor.
Well, there are lots of ways to make the character 'Draconic.' Some involve extensive building, but some are very simple.
(1) Select the Blood of Dragons Bloodline Race Trait. (I love this Trait.)
(2) Take the Eldritch Heritage (Draconic) feats. (You'll have the Charisma.)
(3) Dip a level of spontaneous arcane caster and then go into Dragon Disciple.
Lots of fun options for flavor.
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Also, being flavorfully limited doesnt' really mean anything in Pathfinder. Your PCs are supposed to be the unique awesome characters that defy the norms of society. I would have no problem with you being an agent of Apsu... just have a story behind how it happened.
Rare doesn't mean impossible.
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Pshaw, you can worship Apsu as a Paladin all you want. The organization of the faith is just somewhat limited, that's the only caveat. Otherwise you just follow the code.
It also sort of works as one of the other players is going Dragon Disciple and jumped on the Apsu bandwagon when I mentioned him. So yeah, dragon bros =D
Well, there are lots of ways to make the character 'Draconic.' Some involve extensive building, but some are very simple.(1) Select the Blood of Dragons Bloodline Race Trait. (I love this Trait.)
(2) Take the Eldritch Heritage (Draconic) feats. (You'll have the Charisma.)
(3) Dip a level of spontaneous arcane caster and then go into Dragon Disciple.Lots of fun options for...
Honestly I'll probably go with the trait as I feel most of my feats will be going into combat stuffs (Power Attack, Cleave, etc.). Downside is the DM is kinda mandating we have a Campaign trait and with polearms the Helpful/Aid Another trait will be missed out on.
Also, being flavorfully limited doesnt' really mean anything in Pathfinder. Your PCs are supposed to be the unique awesome characters that defy the norms of society. I would have no problem with you being an agent of Apsu... just have a story behind how it happened.
Rare doesn't mean impossible.
Aye, I'll probably go with Apsu.
Or I suppose I could see about going Grey Paladin and get a wider selection of deities.
Scratch that re-read Gray Paladin and the alignment restrictions stick.
Most of all, talk with your DM about any fun options. It doesn't do any good to get all this advice just have the DM veto any weird and crazy combinations.
If you're playing outside PFS, you have pretty much any options the DM wants to let you have... and if something is 'technically legal' he may still veto ideas based on his own personal 'world view preference'.