Core Races

[Kobold Catgirl]

Way overpowered.

[Dragon78]

Maybe I should have called it "Core races and other playable races".

I know lashunta and many races from Akiton are inspired by sword and planet/sci-fi pulp books/comics but I wonder what other races from such sources will get some use.

[Luthorne]

I also hope that they completely redo human racial traits, though I would also like them to redo the racial traits of all of them to make them more balanced. But human racial traits are particularly troubling, both thematically, since they presume that humans are essentially the norm that all other races diverge from - which is a bit annoying but acceptable in a purely fantasy setting, but gets harder to swallow once you're dealing with sapient races from multiple star systems - and mechanically, since the extra feat, +2 to whatever ability score you want without any penalties, and extra skill points tend to almost always be one of the very best options, especially at low levels.

Hopefully the feat system will be reworked so that a bonus feat is unnecessary for pulling off basic concepts at 1st level; if this means that a bonus feat is too powerful, I am fine with removing it, I don't really like the concept that humans are still automatically the most flexible race out there amongst the stars, especially when most of the races present probably achieved the same dominance that humanity did over their own planet and should be just as flexible.

Even just in comparison to other Earth life, I think humans having a +2 to whatever they want is silly...

[QuidEst]

Humans are +2 Con.

[Darius Darrenbar]

I'm going there, I want some iteration of the kobolds as a core race. Like the ratfolk I think they would thrive in this campaign setting.

[Lord Fyre]

Darius Darrenbar wrote:

I'm going there, I want some iteration of the kobolds as a core race. Like the ratfolk I think they would thrive in this campaign setting.

It's not like they are thriving in their current setting.

[Kobold Catgirl]

Uh, actually, the numbers clearly show we're winning, beardy. How many hatchlings did you spawn last week?

[Dexion1619]

QuidEst wrote:

Humans are +2 Con.

I remember a Scifi book from a long time ago, I think it was called "A Call to Arms ".. When aliens finally make contact with humans they are shocked at the strength, speed and ferocity of the human they take to study.

Turns out, they picked up a Musician with no combat training and a generally pacifist outlook. (He's just scared). He crippled one of they aliens when they tried to capture him.

[Lord Mhoram]

Dexion1619 wrote:

QuidEst wrote:

Humans are +2 Con.

I remember a Scifi book from a long time ago, I think it was called "A Call to Arms ".. When aliens finally make contact with humans they are shocked at the strength, speed and ferocity of the human they take to study.

Turns out, they picked up a Musician with no combat training and a generally pacifist outlook. (He's just scared). He crippled one of they aliens when they tried to capture him.

First book in "The Damned" series by Alan Dean Foster. That is a theme Foster has in a number of his works - the Humanx books, some short fiction "With Friends Like These...." and others. Humans are the very best at making war/fighting and/or savagery.

I enjoyed the first few of that series, then it sort of went sideways, with human being immune to mind control from one race and then finding a way to reverse it when it was tried on them (or something).

David Brinn (IIRC) that talked about how humans are the scariest animal on the planet due to our endurance and ability to withstand pain/injury. We can go into shock and still function, but animals with similar wounds are done. Horses are faster, but we can walk longer. That sort of stuff.

I've always sort of liked that approach to humanity in a SF setting.

[Lord Fyre]

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Uh, actually, the numbers clearly show we're winning, beardy. How many hatchlings did you spawn last week?

None. Dwarves are not Oviparous.

[Odraude]

I don't see humans as overpowered in PF, but I do see them as really boring. WOuld love something to spice them up more. At least more than just a bonus feat.

[Luthorne]

QuidEst wrote:

Humans are +2 Con.

Yeah, that was one I was thinking of. I've pondered humans being something like +2 Con, +2 Cha, -2 Str, or +2 Con, +2 Dex, -2 Str, Endurance as a bonus feat.

Odraude wrote:

I don't see humans as overpowered in PF, but I do see them as really boring. WOuld love something to spice them up more. At least more than just a bonus feat.

Yeah, that's the other thing, I've never really been fond of the approach of humanity being defined by being 'the norm', which essentially eschews all definition for humanity because they can be anything...! Which is a really boring approach to take to humanity. In my opinion, if you're going to go that route, you should take it for every race, because, hey, they're all equally sapient and all capable of adapting to multiple paths...which is a part of being sapient. Or everyone should be their own unique race, instead of the general impression you get of humanity being the baseline, and everything else being defined by how it diverges from humans.

Though I do think they're pretty overpowered, even though I prefer to play nonhumans it can be really hard to pass up those racials traits, though a lot of the problem is also the favored class bonuses for many of the classes, such as psychics and sorcerers...

[Dragon78]

I think humans are fine the way they are. I like having a race were you can choose were your racial stats go. though some alternate racial traits for humans with alien blood in there veins would be cool.

[Pillbug Toenibbler]

Lord Fyre wrote:

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Uh, actually, the numbers clearly show we're winning, beardy. How many hatchlings did you spawn last week?

None. Dwarves are not Oviparous.

Duh! Everyone knows dwarves aren't oviparous. That would be ridiculous. Dwarves are beardapygmies.

[Odraude]

Dragon78 wrote:

I think humans are fine the way they are. I like having a race were you can choose were your racial stats go. though some alternate racial traits for humans with alien blood in there veins would be cool.

Yeah I'm fine with the floating +2, but humans really need something cool instead of "Get an extra feat!"

[Dragon78]

I agree that there needs to be other options other then the bonus feat but those options should be at least as good as a bonus feat and that they should remain an option. I like the human bonus feat, I don't want to loose that as an option.

I would like to see human (sub)species that do not have the bonus feat or extra skills like maybe the red skinned humans of Akiton.

[Torbyne]

Something else to consider, Charisma. It has always been a low level bother of mine that Charisma is universal in its appeal. CHA 20 is CHA 20 to every mindset and species in the multiverse. The definition, "Charisma measures a character's personality, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and appearance." is so highly subjective. Maybe they will make a universal rule or chart with deviations from Golarion norm and associated penalties to CHA checks based on how far removed a creature is. Except Golarion is such a kitchen sink already that there isnt much of a norm to be had. And the prevalence of the Half-X species seems to suggest that humans dont mind CHA penalties too much anyways.

Anyways, i dont want to see a bunch of "ugly" species with -CHA and then balance them out with "beautiful" species that are +CHA.

[Imbicatus]

Torbyne wrote:

Something else to consider, Charisma. It has always been a low level bother of mine that Charisma is universal in its appeal. CHA 20 is CHA 20 to every mindset and species in the multiverse. The definition, "Charisma measures a character's personality, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and appearance." is so highly subjective. Maybe they will make a universal rule or chart with deviations from Golarion norm and associated penalties to CHA checks based on how far removed a creature is. Except Golarion is such a kitchen sink already that there isnt much of a norm to be had. And the prevalence of the Half-X species seems to suggest that humans dont mind CHA penalties too much anyways.

Anyways, i dont want to see a bunch of "ugly" species with -CHA and then balance them out with "beautiful" species that are +CHA.

"ugly" and high CHA are quite common. Have you seen the stats for hags?

[Torbyne]

Imbicatus wrote:

Torbyne wrote:

Something else to consider, Charisma. It has always been a low level bother of mine that Charisma is universal in its appeal. CHA 20 is CHA 20 to every mindset and species in the multiverse. The definition, "Charisma measures a character's personality, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and appearance." is so highly subjective. Maybe they will make a universal rule or chart with deviations from Golarion norm and associated penalties to CHA checks based on how far removed a creature is. Except Golarion is such a kitchen sink already that there isnt much of a norm to be had. And the prevalence of the Half-X species seems to suggest that humans dont mind CHA penalties too much anyways.

Anyways, i dont want to see a bunch of "ugly" species with -CHA and then balance them out with "beautiful" species that are +CHA.

"ugly" and high CHA are quite common. Have you seen the stats for hags?

I get where you are coming from but ugly is only part of it, one's personality, magnetism, ability to lead, what are considered good or bad points in those categories will vary from culture to culture in humans alone. Once you get alien mindsets involved they could get wildly different opinions of good.

Of course this is still the 'Finderverse where the same species can independently develop on multiple worlds across the galaxy... but still, i want aliens to feel and react alien, so, CHA penaltes for everyone! :P

[Cole Deschain]

Odraude wrote:

Yeah I'm fine with the floating +2, but humans really need something cool instead of "Get an extra feat!"

What would you propose?

Humans don't see in the dark, other species are cited as having keener senses overall, inherent magic is something handed out to others...

Humans lack any penalties to ability scores, and they get broad, flexible, universally-applicable bonuses. What would you rather have on them?

[Imbicatus]

Well, if you can take cybernetic implants/biotech upgrades as a feat, the bonus feat would allow them to take darkvision / a stat bonus / natural armor / impant weapons... whatever to get a lot out of that extra feat.

That would be a big upgrade to humans.

[Torbyne]

Imbicatus wrote:

Well, if you can take cybernetic implants/biotech upgrades as a feat, the bonus feat would allow them to take darkvision / a stat bonus / natural armor / impant weapons... whatever to get a lot out of that extra feat.

That would be a big upgrade to humans.

Assuming that humans are the dominant species on Absalom Station then maybe humans can use a greater number of implants or more easily afford them?

They have a similar framework for cybernetic implants in both the tech guide and the shadow piercings, its an easy place to start.

Just make it a new bonus for humans to choose from one or two starting implants as humans have taken to body modifications more readily than other species or something. now you can start with darkvision or low light or bonus to save or... whatever. It'd be easy enough to do.

[Cole Deschain]

Ehhhhhhhh. What if the character is not meant to be a 'borged-out tinman?

Tying a "racial bonus" to a subsystem which may or may not be universally applicable would feel like a step back.

[Lord Fyre]

Cole Deschain wrote:

Ehhhhhhhh. What if the character is not meant to be a 'borged-out tinman?

Tying a "racial bonus" to a subsystem which may or may not be universally applicable would feel like a step back.

Yes, that should (if offered) be an option that the Bonus feat would be traded for.

[Dinobot386]

I would love to see a collective hivemind race, similar to the hunters from Halo. Something like a Worm that Walks as a race rather than a template.

Also playable AI PCs that lack true bodies would be really interesting if they could pull it off.

[David knott 242]

As I recall, the amount of cybertech a character can accept is limited by the lower of Con and Int, so humans beat out any race that has a penalty to either stat and are only beaten out by races that have bonuses to both.

Of course, it is likely that we will have one race with an option that makes them very good with cybertech: Vercites of the Augmented caste. The suggestion in People of the Stars to represent them with Elf stats will probably need adjustment since standard Pathfinder Elves have a penalty to Con.

[Torbyne]

David knott 242 wrote:

As I recall, the amount of cybertech a character can accept is limited by the lower of Con and Int, so humans beat out any race that has a penalty to either stat and are only beaten out by races that have bonuses to both.

Of course, it is likely that we will have one race with an option that makes them very good with cybertech: Vercites of the Augmented caste. The suggestion in People of the Stars to represent them with Elf stats will probably need adjustment since standard Pathfinder Elves have a penalty to Con.

Or they have a racial trait that allows them to go over that limit. or with the vastly increased medical knowledge of the future there are easy ways to get around the crude limits of unenlightened ages. i dont think we will be seeing the same cybertech rules in SF.

[IonutRO]

Well Kalo cannot breathe air, and the red humans of Akiton are just that, humans, not just identical statistically, but simply another ethnic group.

[Dragon78]

I really hope the red skin humans of Akiton get a name they call there race and no, not "human" or "the people of Akiton".

It's the future, so Kalo will be able to get air breathing devices or water tanks, or something

[IonutRO]

I also wish to know what the "Akitonians" are really called, as well as what their ethnic language is. I hope to play one as my first Starfinder character.

[Torbyne]

I feel like exploration in system is old news at the point the game picks up at, if that is the case then interplanetary factions and governments might have taken the place of planetary racial identities. In any event while the humans of Akiton might have an old racial language and name for themselves to the common peoples of the system they are still just a human. Maybe redmen but honestly, for all the species of Elf on Golarion we just slapped a color or common feature to the word elf and got away with it. Dark Elf, Grey Elf, Snow Elf, Elf. so yeah, Man, Red Man, Grey Man, whatever, we brought it on ourselves.

I would also assume a lot of the old Golarion languages are dead. From what i understand about Earth the interconnections, colonization and globalization has been a linguistic genocide to our planet. Golarion probably went through the same. Reducing the populations to Absalom Station would likely cut that even further. Maybe one common tongue, 1-2 racial languages and then 2-3 planetary languages. i hope there are either mass universal translators or some other gimmick to prevent you from needing to learn 15+ new languages for every planet you discover.

[Imbicatus]

Dragon78 wrote:

I really hope the red skin humans of Akiton get a name they call there race and no, not "human" or "the people of Akiton".

They are humans. Just like Shoanti, Garundi, Mwangi, Kellid, Ulfen, Vudrani, Tian, and any other ethnic group. I'd love more information about them, but whatever they're called, they are human.

[IonutRO]

Imbicatus wrote:

Dragon78 wrote:

I really hope the red skin humans of Akiton get a name they call there race and no, not "human" or "the people of Akiton".

They are humans. Just like Shoanti, Garundi, Mwangi, Kellid, Ulfen, Vudrani, Tian, and any other ethnic group. I'd love more information about them, but whatever they're called, they are human.

That's what he's talking about. Garundi aren't just CALLED "human" or "the people of Garund", they've got a proper name to them.

[XLordxErebusX]

id be happy with Reptoids, Ghorans, and Astomoi being added to the lists above.

[Gark the Goblin]

What are astomoi?

[Torbyne]

Gark the Goblin wrote:

What are astomoi?

Astomoi appear to be made of pure darkness. They require no food—indeed, they have no mouths—and they have no eyes with which to survey their environment. Instead, they rely on their powerful minds to sense the world around them, and subsist on nutrients absorbed from the air. This can turn against them, however, as powerful smells and inhaled poisons can render an astomoi helpless. Predisposed to asceticism, astomoi rarely wear more than rags, if they wear anything at all.

Racial Traits

Ability Score Racial Traits: Astomoi ever pursue enlightenment through self-denial and are psychically attuned to their surroundings, but their delicate bodies are more susceptible to the physical dangers of the world. They gain +2 Intelligence and +2 Wisdom but suffer –2 Constitution.
Size: Astomoi are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Speed: Astomoi have a base speed of 30 feet.
Languages: Astomoi begin play knowing Common, but as they have no mouths, they cannot speak. They have telepathy with a range of 100 feet. Astomoi with high Intelligence scores can choose any of the following languages: Abyssal, Aklo, Celestial, Elven, Gnome, Infernal, and Sylvan. See the Linguistics skill page for more information about these languages.
Sense Racial Traits

Scent: Astomoi have the scent special ability.
Telepathic Senses: Astomoi can't speak or see, but can mentally sense the area within 60 feet, as per darkvision, and can speak telepathically. An astomoi can't see anything beyond 60 feet. An astomoi must provide thought components for spells that normally require verbal components. It can use language-dependent abilities with its telepathy, but not abilities that depend on audible components.

Sensitive Breath: Astomoi take a –2 penalty on saving throws against disease and inhaled poisons.
Misc. Racial Traits

Mouthless: Astomoi don't need to eat or drink to survive. Instead, they absorb the essence of food and drink; this consumes the nutrients of the meal as though it had been eaten, rendering the food useless to others. Astomoi consume potions and other ingested materials in the same fashion. Since they never actually ingest anything, they can't normally be exposed to ingested poisons.

From Bestiary 5.

[Dragon78]

I hope to see at least one new playable race that survive in the void of outer space.

I would like a playable race that eats non-living matter like metal, rock, and plastic.

I would like a few races with a single immunity like charm effects, disease, poison, petrification, etc.

[Doctor Argos]

Couple of ideas:
Asoda- Giant, peaceful, spacefaring amoeba that with practice can take on a roughly humanoid shape. They can communicate vocally but prefer their ability to communicate telepathically by touch. Their score are high in charisma, being a fairly diplomatic type, and intelligence, required to keep up with the vast interstellar economy that their race pilots.
Urukan- Orcs, not smart enough to last in space, are extinct. But Half-Orcs have thrived and in fact evolved with exposure to extraterrestrial energies in their asteroid belt home, that so happens to be in the habitable zone of it's star. Urukan are a good deal smarter, more tactical, and insular than their predecessors. Urukan have evolved and sport bony plates on their arms and legs. They are your typical constitution tanks with wisdom for their pragmatism that has kept them alive in their new and inhospitable home.
Baush- Creatures made of living silicate crystal in humanoid form that feed off of sunlight. These creatures are naturally inquisitive and find biological life a complete mystery that must be solved. They communicate purely through telepathy and have a society that can best be described as monastic. Their crystalline bodies, far stronger than flesh and bone, lend themselves to constitution. While they have strong intellects, they lack 'biological camaraderie' as they call it, making them deficient in charisma.

[Mark Carlson 255]

IMHO,
(Note I do not know anything about Starfinder except what I read in the newsletter and the little I read in this and another thread)

The core race's are defined by all the little choices the creators make when building the game and setting. For example picking Pathfinder IMHO provides a group of core race ideas as well as provides a group of races to exclude (unless you provide some rules for having characters start at different levels.); defining space travel as tech, magic, psionic or other also defines what races would be more successful then others in the setting; and finally deciding on the settings conflicts (enemy races (see more later), inter star-zation conflict, invasion by other dimensional beings, etc) also provide a good outline on what it takes to be a race that should be considered as core.
Now writers can make almost anything work but often the choice of making the basic decisions above determine the length the game will survive and the breadth of the populace that will play it. For some having more then just humans in a no go, some do not like space games unless there are very alien races and some want animal races in space (dog, cat, dino, etc).

The Enemies List:
(But again really depends on some of the basic ideas the creators use to define the setting)
Multi-Dem: Devils, Daemons, Angles, Gith, and other races aligned to specific planes
Dragons and their Kin:
Giants and Kin: I kind of like the idea of Rune Giants trying to conquer the galaxy and it does tie in with Golarion history as well.
Undead
Mind Flyers
Insect Races: Ants, Mantis races, etc

Some Standard Enemies: Orc's, goblins, gnolls, kobalds, humans, bugbears, wolf race, cat race
Non-Standard Enemies: gnomes, halflings, spirits, sprites

Well my 2 cents anyway.
MDC

[Arevashti]

Along with the previously mentioned maraquoi, hypothetical wolf people, and hypothetical insect/arthropod people? I'd like to see something along the lines of siarrans from Dragonstar, personally.

And the human inhabitants of Akiton were confirmed to be just that—more an ethnicity than anything else—in Distant Worlds. They might get listed as a separate culture called "Akitonian," but that's about it.

[Naal]

Imbicatus wrote:

Dragon78 wrote:

I really hope the red skin humans of Akiton get a name they call there race and no, not "human" or "the people of Akiton".

They are humans. Just like Shoanti, Garundi, Mwangi, Kellid, Ulfen, Vudrani, Tian, and any other ethnic group. I'd love more information about them, but whatever they're called, they are human.

As long as they lay eggs, all is fine by me.

[IonutRO]

I'd like to see a race of alien, medium sized, 0 HD sphinxes with tentacles instead of wings (for item manipulation).

[Zamrok]

Don't know if a Gadget-y Race has been put forth, but personally, I'd like to see something akin to the Lombax race in Ratchet & Clank. Small Size, +2 Dex +2... Cha or Int? -2 to Con or Str though. Just something very tech and engineering based. I wanna see something like this specialize in weaponized combat and piloting.

[Flynn Greywalker]

I like the initial Seven races mentioned, that comes from Distant Worlds and the Bestiaries. However, I would think these races would be kept as well (they can be uncommon):

1. Gnomes - Remember, they come from the first world, are curious, explorers, tinkerers, and constantly need new challenges. By the time Starfinder takes place, I would think they have branched out and have joined Absolom Station. Do specialty clans like gear gnomes, tinker gnomes, dark gnomes (for the realm of Shadow or the Veil) and sun gnomes.
2. Drow
3. Duergar
4. Mi-Go
5. Denizens of Leng
6. Girtatablilu
7. Kobolds
8. Hobgoblins
9. Shobhad
10. Witchwyrds
11. Akatas
12. Dragonkin
13. Cyborgs (yes there are androids, but we need cyborgs)
14. Damphir
15. Brain Carriers (robots with a tank for a living creature's brain).
16. Robots with a soul spark (like the ones from Ebberon hint hint).

There are so many directions to go here.

[David knott 242]

I think Verces has gnomes living on it, so no special steps are required to ensure that that race is still around.

[Ambrosia Slaad]

Zamrok wrote:

Don't know if a Gadget-y Race has been put forth, but personally, I'd like to see something akin to the Lombax race in Ratchet & Clank. Small Size, +2 Dex +2... Cha or Int? -2 to Con or Str though. Just something very tech and engineering based. I wanna see something like this specialize in weaponized combat and piloting.

I'd like to see kobolds fill a gadget-y/tech-y race slot. It'd be easy to tweak their racial skill bonuses to now apply to a tech-focused skill, and they have plenty of mechanics room to improve to a mere -2 penalty on Strength without any danger of becoming overpowered. Maybe even give them a racial feat or feat tree to bodge together tech that works for a short duration and/or quick fix broken tech to work for a short duration before breaking again?

[Dragon78]

Actually Triaxus is the one with gnomes living on it but they are different then the Golarion's gnomes because they do not have to worry about the bleaching.

[Luthorne]

Ambrosia Slaad wrote:

Zamrok wrote:

Don't know if a Gadget-y Race has been put forth, but personally, I'd like to see something akin to the Lombax race in Ratchet & Clank. Small Size, +2 Dex +2... Cha or Int? -2 to Con or Str though. Just something very tech and engineering based. I wanna see something like this specialize in weaponized combat and piloting.

I'd like to see kobolds fill a gadget-y/tech-y race slot. It'd be easy to tweak their racial skill bonuses to now apply to a tech-focused skill, and they have plenty of mechanics room to improve to a mere -2 penalty on Strength without any danger of becoming overpowered. Maybe even give them a racial feat or feat tree to bodge together tech that works for a short duration and/or quick fix broken tech to work for a short duration before breaking again?

I think that's the role they intend to put the ysoki ratolk in...

[Gyor]

http://geekandsundry.com/interview-with-the-creator-of-starfinder-pathfinde rs-sci-fi-sister-game/

So all the core races of Pathfinder will be in it, Elves, Gnomes, Half Orcs, Half Elves, Halflings, Dwarves, Humans, races like the Lashtuna (note the plural *races*, that suggests other races from planets in the solar system), Androids, Ratfolk, and two really Alien races from solar systems outside the Golaron Solar system.

Thats at least 12, likely more core races, one of which the Lashtuna have such extreme dimorphism that they're like 2 gender based species.

[Gyor]

Character ideas I want to try, an Infernal Android, basically a escaped damned soul from hell or the abyss finds an Android whose soul had just moved on and inhabits it, becoming an Infernal Sorceror Android. Call him or Her Jem'tar the Infernal Engine.

A male Lashunta of some sort, still deciding what class, with a bunch of wives. I'm leaning towards a Outrider (Cavalier) of the Order of the Star with Bastet as his god, multiclassed with a couple of levels of Cleric with the Lust subdomain, which is because he was raised around alot of Orisians.

I thought about Elf Cyborg, but that's feels to Shadowrunish.