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Anyone know about religion in Starfinder?
There will be some.
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I think you still missed the part where the game hasn't been made yet .
I still want my Mecha-Paladin of Iomedae...
While I understand this is a scifi/fantasy setting, I am wondering if there will be rules for real world space(space travel) physics.
Oh and tell me any and all info about time travel! :p
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Oh no please no time travel. That is one can of worms that need never be opened.
Yeah we don't need timey-whimy stuff.
Vague.....Anyone know about religion in Starfinder?There will be some.
Well asking the same exact question 3 times in one thread is sorta rude as well.
Read this entire thread and then read this entire thread and get caught up to speed and then see what questions you may want to ask, keeping in mind that asking the same question over and over in the same thread does not make an answer any more likely to happen.
The link I am giving is everything we currently know from official sources so far in one thread, annotated and linked to the source.
Any news on religion?
I hope they take the criticism of Cleric and take it in new directions... Where choice of deity has larger effect on abilities. I would also like something like 2nd Edition's Al-Qadim, where there was different types of priest "archetypes" depending on "orthodoxy" but those were applicable across different deities. which ends up emphasizing intra- and inter-religious differences equally.
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Vague.....Anyone know about religion in Starfinder?There will be some.Well asking the same exact question 3 times in one thread is sorta rude as well.
Read this entire thread and then read this entire thread and get caught up to speed and then see what questions you may want to ask, keeping in mind that asking the same question over and over in the same thread does not make an answer any more likely to happen.
The link I am giving is everything we currently know from official sources so far in one thread, annotated and linked to the source.
Actually it might. If it keeps coming up, it's an indication that people are interested in it, which means the designers and writers might then consider going into it more than they had otherwise planned.
Its also possible that new or more information might have come out or that the basic design concept has changed since these or other forum post's where made.
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And if it keeps coming up just from the same person, it's only an indicator that person is interested in it.
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I think they're going in the opposite direction, actually...as I recall, they said that the mystic could serve as the follower of a deity, but could also fill a number of other roles, which makes me suspect that your choice of deity is primarily flavor instead of having a mechanical effect. I could be wrong, though...
Edit: Though even if there's a particular archetype or built-in path for deity worship, one suspects with it potentially filling other roles, said options will be necessarily more sparse...but again, I could be wrong.
Many of the 'modern day' Golarion gods are heavily tied into the outer planes, which would logically be less of a focus in a setting where exploring *this* potentially infinite plane is the adventure, instead of going to Axis or the City of Brass or recreating the epic scene from 'A Paladin in Hell.' That's not necessarily the case, but if that logic is followed, then gods with a stronger presence on the material plane of Golarion might find themselves more relevant to the setting than some distant god in some other dimension who never calls and never visits.
Such gods include Desna, and the various Elder Gods/Great Old Ones.
Being set in the future, it's also likely that there will be some new additions, and some missing names. Nobody wants their favorite god to be gone, but, if there are no Dwarves in Starfinder (just speculating, I have no idea!), then there's not much use for Torag and the entire dwarven sub-pantheon (Angradd, Bolka, Drangvitt, etc.). Just as the Azlanti worshipped gods that no longer exist (Acavna, etc.), it's entirely possible that new gods have risen, and old ones dropped out of favor (or died, moved on, whatever). Calistria, on the other hand, and the other 'elven gods,' already have a presence on another planet, and their faiths seem much more likely to weather the loss of Golarion (and it's churches and worshippers).
I imagine that what is presented on the worship of Rovagug will offer some conspiratorial theories about what happened to Golarion 'the Cage' itself... If his followers no longer exist, or are split into warring cults with very different tenets about 'what happened' or think he's out there wandering the universe, a 'Destroyer of Worlds,' that could lead to all sorts of (unprovable) fun theories.
What comes of the 'Starstone Scions' (Iomedae, Cayden, Norgie) or self-ascended gods (Irori, Urgathoa, Nethys) also could be fuel for theories and conspiracies. Are they all (mysteriously) gone? Are there even *more* of them?
Of the 'lesser' gods, Brigh seems likely to be a big deal, but others, like Gyronna and, especially, Hanspur, might be too 'regional' or 'Golarion-specific' to make the jump to a post-Golarion Starfinder setting... Then again, spite never goes out of style, and the 'River Rat' could transition to be the god of tramp steamers among the starlanes, with the occasional drowning of river pirates being replaced by hurling them out airlocks...
We have no reason to believe all the deities known to Golarion, even the ones who ascended in living memory, have not been busy cultivating followers in other star systems.
Pharasma is the Coca-Cola of deities: she's everywhere and doesn't need to do any evangelizing or advertising. Other deities are more regional, certainly not universal. But you can be sure most of them (except for hermits like Irori) have been busy raising up handpicked evangelists, giving them Interplanetary Teleports to new star systems, and sending them out to win more converts to their pet philosophies and dogmas.
Besides these elite apostles, there will many more volunteers willing to travel via spell, starship, or portal to spread their religion on their own initiative.
It's reasonable to expect even the newer deities to have spread their veneration to many star systems (if not other galaxies) by the Starfinder era.
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On a different note from Deities: Wars.
How were wars-in-progress affected by The Gap? Did they all wake up in their camps, not knowing why they were fighting the people on the other side of no man's land? Did they know that they were supposed to fight and that was enough? Was it different for different cultures across the universe?
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I'm having a really hard time seeing any way that technology would replace magic. I mean sure, maybe, a flash light is cheaper than a Light spell, but well, even if that's the case, Light, even the Orison/Cantrip just seems to be equal or better in every other way. More reliable, better area, (it's not focused), works everywhere, etc. . .
That just gets even more amplified with higher level magic, (and not even High Level magic). Maybe a grenade acts just like a Fireball, but I can still see plenty of reasons to want Fireballs over grenades, (it's not obvious someone has a Fireball prepared while it very well could be that they even had a hidden grenade). And even technological healing 20 times better than what we got in the Technology Guide just doesn't compare to a healing magic that can actually return the dead to life.
I just find the idea too contrived. Like there is a goal in mind, and no matter how little sense it makes, it doesn't matter. Even on the thematic scale, if the idea is Sci-Fantasy rather than Sci-Fi, it seems that there would still be plenty of magic, just that maybe some technology is starting to get closer to it, leaving a lot of room to experiment with the differences.
I'm having a similar issue with the idea that religion is taking a backseat as well, though we have not heard too much on this front, (it might just be the deities), but that likewise seems very backwards. Religion is probably one of the most defining characteristics of a culture, and for a game all about space and planetary exploration, it seems that the amount of religious debates, evangelism, seeking to learn more truths of ones faith from different beings, etc. . . would all increase vastly, not take a back seat.
Is the Mechanic the only class that will have the option for an AI? If so, is multiclassing going to be an option? I'm a bit concerned on about this in a few ways. On one hand, I do feel that classes getting permanent "pets", essentially a second character has always had a bad effect on Pathfinder, and so I hope that this is addressed in a new system, but at the same time, having an AI voice in your head/helmet just seems too cool and iconic to the theme and setting to restrict it to any class.
All I know is I asked about clerics and deities in my own thread and I got nothing.
But I'm okay with that. It's still 2016.
I could see important places becoming no-magic zones, while tech is permitted for the sake of defensive security, creature comforts, etc. Only the proprietors or law enforcement may wield magic and then only to counter barred magic and technology.
I'm having a really hard time seeing any way that technology would replace magic. I mean sure, maybe, a flash light is cheaper than a Light spell, but well, even if that's the case, Light, even the Orison/Cantrip just seems to be equal or better in every other way. More reliable, better area, (it's not focused), works everywhere, etc. . .
That just gets even more amplified with higher level magic, (and not even High Level magic). Maybe a grenade acts just like a Fireball, but I can still see plenty of reasons to want Fireballs over grenades, (it's not obvious someone has a Fireball prepared while it very well could be that they even had a hidden grenade). And even technological healing 20 times better than what we got in the Technology Guide just doesn't compare to a healing magic that can actually return the dead to life.
I just find the idea too contrived. Like there is a goal in mind, and no matter how little sense it makes, it doesn't matter. Even on the thematic scale, if the idea is Sci-Fantasy rather than Sci-Fi, it seems that there would still be plenty of magic, just that maybe some technology is starting to get closer to it, leaving a lot of room to experiment with the differences.
I'm having a similar issue with the idea that religion is taking a backseat as well, though we have not heard too much on this front, (it might just be the deities), but that likewise seems very backwards. Religion is probably one of the most defining characteristics of a culture, and for a game all about space and planetary exploration, it seems that the amount of religious debates, evangelism, seeking to learn more truths of ones faith from different beings, etc. . . would all increase vastly, not take a back seat.
Is the Mechanic the only class that will have the option for an AI? If so, is multiclassing going to be an option? I'm a bit concerned on about this in a few ways. On one hand, I do feel that classes getting permanent "pets", essentially a second character has always had a bad effect on...
Why a grenade over a fireball? You can teach anything sapient with the proper manipulators how to use a grenade in the course of a day. A fireball may take years to learn how to cast properly. Is it superior in damage, range, and concealment? Heck yeah, but a grenade has a wider user base, so technology wins.
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Playable Flumphs?
I am not one of the Starfinder Warriors Three, but... Jason Garrett/"Mikaze" (who later worked on the Belkzen book) wrote up a lovely little flumph/gnome hybrid race, the ziphryn, in LRGG's Halfbreeds and Hybrids.
...I'm having a really hard time seeing any way that technology would replace magic. I mean sure, maybe, a flash light is cheaper than a Light spell, but well, even if that's the case, Light, even the Orison/Cantrip just seems to be equal or better in every other way. More reliable, better area, (it's not focused), works everywhere, etc. . .
That just gets even more amplified with higher level magic, (and not even High Level magic). Maybe a grenade acts just like a Fireball, but I can still see plenty of reasons to want Fireballs over grenades, (it's not obvious someone has a Fireball prepared while it very well could be that they even had a hidden grenade). And even technological healing 20 times better than what we got in the Technology Guide just doesn't compare to a healing magic that can actually return the dead to life.
I just find the idea too contrived. Like there is a goal in mind, and no matter how little sense it makes, it doesn't matter. Even on the thematic scale, if the idea is Sci-Fantasy rather than Sci-Fi, it seems that there would still be plenty of magic, just that maybe some technology is starting to get closer to it, leaving a lot of room to experiment with the differences.
I'm having a similar issue with the idea that religion is taking a backseat as well, though we have not heard too much on this front, (it might just be the deities), but that likewise seems very backwards. Religion is probably one of the most defining characteristics of a culture, and for a game all about space and planetary exploration, it seems that the amount of religious debates, evangelism, seeking to learn more truths of ones faith from different beings, etc. . . would all increase vastly, not take a back seat.
Is the Mechanic the only class that will have the option for an AI? If so, is multiclassing going to be an option? I'm a bit concerned on about this in a few ways. On one hand, I do feel that classes getting permanent "pets", essentially a second character has always
In addition the same reason organizations choose external equipment instead of cybernetics: you can hand a tool to a new user instead of having to uninstall and reinstall cybernetics.
If I have a machine thirteen people could use it in the course of a day. Whereas only one person can use a given spell slot and only once per spell slot per day.
Technology has repeatability and accessibility over magic in most settings.
Also, although for players this is a matter of simple multiclassing gaining levels for an NPC is a real commitment, and while players easily start getting 20s in ability scores 10 is average so not that many people actually qualify for the kind of things PCs do, so a light spell is actually relatively hard to come by while a flashlight is pretty easy to get your hands on and doesn't require that you either; Have supernatural blood, go to a wizard school, worship a deity, get cursed, learn a forbidden language, make a pact with a mysterious force, summon a monster.
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In addition the same reason organizations choose external equipment instead of cybernetics: you can hand a tool to a new user instead of having to uninstall and reinstall cybernetics.
If I have a machine thirteen people could use it in the course of a day. Whereas only one person can use a given spell slot and only once per spell slot per day.
Technology has repeatability and accessibility over magic in most settings.
Why a grenade over a fireball? You can teach anything sapient with the proper manipulators how to use a grenade in the course of a day. A fireball may take years to learn how to cast properly. Is it superior in damage, range, and concealment? Heck yeah, but a grenade has a wider user base, so technology wins.
No, I get that. That is sort of what I was thinking when I said something along the lines of "at best they seem to come out pretty equal". That is, I meant that in the sense that both would have pros and cons.
So while anyone can be handed a grenade, a Fireball doesn't risk going off when you don't want it to, is infinitely more concealable, can grow stronger with better training, is created out of nothingness, etc. . . Which is also I think the crux, as the same thing could be said for even Pathfinder. I'd imagine that the player characters are cuts above the average person, and so don't have things like NPC levels, in which case, from the player's perspective, we don't really need to worry much about the befits of the grenade in the hands of the 1 day long trained masses. But isn't that the exact edge that a given Away Team in Starfinder would be looking for? To not just be that little mook that took grenades 101 at the YMCA and instead the specialist in something few people are able or willing to devote time into mastering?
I'd also like to point out that while Fireball might be a generic example, it's also one that is really only valid because it does have an easy technological comparison, and while some spells might also have comparable equivalents (Haste versus a speed boost injection), I'm somewhat doubtful that many others would, which then likewise seems to put the concept that the universe as a whole went to the overall inferior version over the much more versatile one. It also assumes that every single culture, planet, people, etc. . . also have a fairly comparable level of technology that they would leave priests and mages behind.
In addition the same reason organizations choose external equipment instead of cybernetics: you can hand a tool to a new user instead of having to uninstall and reinstall cybernetics.
If I have a machine thirteen people could use it in the course of a day. Whereas only one person can use a given spell slot and only once per spell slot per day.
Technology has repeatability and accessibility over magic in most settings.
Why a grenade over a fireball? You can teach anything sapient with the proper manipulators how to use a grenade in the course of a day. A fireball may take years to learn how to cast properly. Is it superior in damage, range, and concealment? Heck yeah, but a grenade has a wider user base, so technology wins.No, I get that. That is sort of what I was thinking when I said something along the lines of "at best they seem to come out pretty equal". That is, I meant that in the sense that both would have pros and cons.
So while anyone can be handed a grenade, a Fireball doesn't risk going off when you don't want it to, is infinitely more concealable, can grow stronger with better training, is created out of nothingness, etc. . . Which is also I think the crux, as the same thing could be said for even Pathfinder. I'd imagine that the player characters are cuts above the average person, and so don't have things like NPC levels, in which case, from the player's perspective, we don't really need to worry much about the befits of the grenade in the hands of the 1 day long trained masses. But isn't that the exact edge that a given Away Team in Starfinder would be looking for? To not just be that little mook that took grenades 101 at the YMCA and instead the specialist in something few people are able or willing to devote time into mastering?
I'd also like to point out that while Fireball might be a generic example, it's also one that is really only valid because it does have an easy technological comparison, and...
Personally, it's a matter of realism. In a universe in which high technology exists at a level capable of faster-than-light travel, having magic overpower technology would break my suspension of disbelief. I mean, magic isn't something everyone has or can use. Technology is. And if the universe is going to feel like anything but warmed over spelljammer leftovers, tech needs to be more prevalent. That's why there are 5 classes that either focus or rely on technology, and only 3 that are magic users (assuming the envoy isn't a caster, which I think is a fair assumption).
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I'm sort of the opposite, finding the current design we have heard breaking my suspension of disbelief, which is kind of why I'm bringing it up. From the sounds of it, at least 1 of the magic classes seems to be technology based reskinned, and it sort of difficult to get a sense of the other two at this point, although they both feel a bit more psionic, or even "occult" whatever. (They really need to find a new word for that, as occult better describes both arcane and divine than the material in occult adventures.)
Anyway, I'm not suggesting that Magic be better, I just find it very difficult that the two concepts wouldn't be basically very on par, especially when you consider that technology would also be used to increase magic, (and in the D&D/PF sense both Clerical and Wizardly magic is already very scientific and formulaic).
True, thus the technomancer. But that road runs both ways, magic enhances technology.
Also think of how many conditions or training you need just to start a magic class and how rare magic is supposed to be. If even a level 3 wizard exists in a high tech world, given the scarcity of people who qualify to use magic, wouldn't it be lucrative to use technology to package and share magic? At this point magic is moast likely a type of product more than there are actual users, the way we all can't just build a motorcycle from scratch. Who's to say that flashlights are partially made with light spells instead of bulbs because they don't give off heat. My current game has a corporation that have contracts that extend past death because the executives are all necromancers and they sell both magical and non magical pharmaceuticals.
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From the sounds of it, space travel beyond the immediate vacinity of a planet is a very new thing, so Im not sure that technology would have been nearly as advanced as the degree that is being assumed. But, if, like Steven says, magic and technology enhance each other, it would seem to follow that magic would then need to be very much desired and sought after, even if its uncommon and takes more time to learn to use.
There also seems to be a strange idea that everyone would/should know how to use technology while magic is something that takes time, effort, and resources. Id imagine it would be a lot more true in reverse, especially when we consider that different races/planets would probably have vastly different forms of technology, and possibly incompatible with anything if they are a recently discovered race or planet. Magic, on the other hand might be used slightly differently, similar to how a Witch, Cleric, Cleric, and Druid in PF can all cast Fireball, or something like Protection from Evil, and even the small differences amongst members of those individual classes. There are some differences, but for the most part, the effect is otherwise identical or nearly so.
Hmmm, you make a fair point. Would any of the devs like to weigh in on this?
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From what I recall, the ability to "jump" is something very new, so while it's true, that it might have been possible to travel from planet to planet beforehand, there was no way to do so quickly. I'm unsure on the distance of Golarion's planets from each other, but I'd imagine we are talking years, decades, and centuries here.
And while it might be true that weapons might be designed to allow the most people to use them with little training, most technology, even today, does not work that way at all. Generally, most technology does require a lot of expert training to use at all, or at some basic level.
I do agree that at this point that too much assumption is premature, which is why I'm focusing on things that have been said as design goals or desired concepts that just don't sit well.
New question: Will Starfinder be completely supporting the fantasy classes together with the new-modern ones, or will the game assume only the new-modern ones will be played?
New question: Will Starfinder be completely supporting the fantasy classes together with the new-modern ones, or will the game assume only the new-modern ones will be played?
As far as we've heard, the old classes won't work directly. Some conversion work will be required to make them fit.
hmm i hope not to much like im ok if the downside might be your playing a barbarian you can't help with ship operations but if we board them your up. as well as adjusting some skills but i hope its not a huge gap from one to the other. if it can be fixed with an archetype id be ecstatic.
So, how's the afterlife and the outer planes going to work in Starfinder?
Was there any word on the skill system in Starfinder?
Will different classes have different skill points per level + INT or something like that and will there be the same difference in skill points?
Like ranging from 2 - 8 for different classes, with some having a much higher revenue like abilities depending on INT?
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They have not said how they are going to change it, but basically they are going to make sure that a Rogue (8+Int) and a Wiz (2+Int) do not have the same skill points just because the Wizard has a super high Int.
I do remember a comment somewhere along the lines of finally doing something like making 4 skill points the minimum as well, but I could be wrong, or misinterpreting something there, (wishful thinking).
Mhm wishfull thinking indeed^^
My problem there is not the wizard having similar skill points like a rogue, more that some classes have so few, what brings forth an imminent problem that affects roleplaying to some extent.
Add in that there are some skills you have to take mostly (perception, spellcraft, acrobatics,...more/others depending on class and role) and 2 sp per level is very limiting somehow.
I hope that will be different in Starfinder, since in an technical advanced society skills are even more important, no matter wether you can use some magic or not.
Also the way ability stats govern skills could be looked at i think.
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I disagree, or at least partially. I totally agree that 2 Skill Points is very limiting and not fun, but I also do think that Wizards (and other classes) having just as many, if not more Skill Points than the Rogue is a very bad thing. It's one of the main reasons I think that there is actually some validity to the claim that Rogues are underpowered, not because the class itself is, but rather because one of the main features the class is supposed to be best at, is actually not that difficult for others to do, particularly while also doing so naturally. For classes like Wizard, they where already going to try to max out Int, so just getting a bunch of free Skill Points is literally a free extra, where classes like the Rogue, and even Bard generally have to spread out their stats a lot more.
And like you mentioned, there are some skills that are just better options than others, regardless of class, (Perception), the fact that the Wizard is easily just as good with the Class who is supposed to be exceptional at them makes it even more required (for general overall balance) to continue to limit the other extreme (2+Dump Stat classes), so that Skill based Classes are not competing with literally everyone else.
What's made it worse is all the options that allow you to use different ability scores for Skills. I'm playing in a PFS game online right now with a Level 2 Witch who, with one rank has over double my character's maxed out Diplomacy bonus, so basically they took a trait and feat that completely overwhelms what I'd placed a lot on investment into.
What would make more sense is give out skill points based on the stats abs the class. Like a high intelligence let's you put skills in intelligence based skills. High strength? Get skills related to that. Then have each class get bonuses. Like soldier would get physical skills, but not mental skills. Opposite fir the mechanic. Solarion more even. Operative even and high. Mystic mental.
This is why I changed skills for my own campaign. The results have been that everyone has a fun amount of skills. The only unfortunate thing is that old term thinking has prevailed and too many people took the same skills that are important in normal Pathfinder and I'm the kind of GM that tries to make use out of most skills. also the guy with all the good INT based skills is missing too often.
Why toss out all the old classes? It seems contrary to the 'add on' philosophy Paizo has pursued in the past with the Gunslinger & firearms; the Antipaladin for 'evil' campaigns; the Ninja and Samurai for Tian Xia campaigning; and the occultic casters for psychic/horror adventures.
They are even using essentially the same IP/setting, only further advanced in its timeline. If the culture which built the Divinity is still out there, then the primitive peoples who discovered that derelict are still out there, and it should be a reasonable assumption that the rules for both primitive and modern peoples are seamless and uniform.
Unless Starfinder is meant to be a vehicle for sneaking in another rules upgrade for Pathfinder, it will just feel weird (IMHO) to be playing what will essentially be two different RPGs.
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Because Starfinder is meant to be a separate game mechanically.