If this becomes a reality I will be a GM for it. I will work out the details of how I am going to work it out later but I want to do what I can to make Starfinder a success.
It works so well for Pathfinder I definitely can't imagine Paizo not doing the same for Starfinder.
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If this becomes a reality I will be a GM for it. I will work out the details of how I am going to work it out later but I want to do what I can to make Starfinder a success.
Yeah, my idea as well... I might have moved to Florida by that time so I can setup shop there... Man, I am secretly hyped for this game now :)
It works so well for Pathfinder I definitely can't imagine Paizo not doing the same for Starfinder.
I agree, not sure how long after Paizo started with Pathfinder that they introduced Society tho, seeing as society is now entering it's 9th (if calculated right) year?
They got their first VC right here!
I agree, not sure how long after Paizo started with Pathfinder that they introduced Society tho, seeing as society is now entering it's 9th (if calculated right) year?
PFS is the result of a lot of trial and error so I imagine if they did do it, there would be some early kinks.
I live in Philadelphia where there is a strong PFS presence. I would work with them if SFS became a thing. No matter what, I am on board with this idea, glitches can always be fixed and as a veteran player and GM I can and will do what I can to work around the glitches and make this as much a success as I can.
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This i might join never been a big fan of organized play but this could be fun.
For me Organized play has gotten me back into RPG'ing and in fact involved in the d20 scene. I am an old school V:tM player (throw in Shadowrun and you got my styles lined up). I used to hate the d20 system in the old days till I got introduced into Pathfinder (heck, got my gf even interested in society by letting her tag along (and she is pretty much a non-gamer gf)).
Reason it works for me is because of my work situation (doing shift work, it ruins any social life and/or making appointments for a game on set days).
PFS is the result of a lot of trial and error so I imagine if they did do it, there would be some early kinks.
I agree, not sure how long after Paizo started with Pathfinder that they introduced Society tho, seeing as society is now entering it's 9th (if calculated right) year?
But I would think that the major concepts of organized play were pretty well worked out in PFS. For SFS, they should be able to start with the basic PFS concepts and adapt it for the new rule system -- and they should have already figured out a few changes that they would need to make there, such as not introducing severe restrictions on firearms in a setting where they are probably standard issue equipment for nearly all classes.
I would imagine that SFS should get off to a much smoother start than PFS did.
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If Paizo doesn't run one, you can be more or less sure that either a third party or the community as a whole would take this up.
All the structures are there from PFS, there would just be actual material (i.e. scenarios).
Paizo already said they would do an AP, so cutting that up into level sized chronicles in the way that PFS does would be an easy first step.
I never played Living Dragonstar but it would have been nice. I do want to run this locally if at all possible. I understand there are no plans for it now but we have time to wait. Starfinder releases around GenCon 2017 from what I can see and I know Paizo staff are reading these boards so they see how much support is being promised and all you've done is tell us you're going to put it out there. I sincerely doubt that is going to diminish from now until then. Some of us fans are extremely willing to run this in an organized play. If I have to make a meetup group for this in Philly I will. I know I am willing to GM for organized play of this in Philadelphia; I can't be the only one.
Okay so here is what we now know about a possible SFS:
They want to do it, it's just gonna be hard to pull off so they can't say yes or no that it will happen.
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Hmm.
The only way I'd get into Starfinder would be if there was an SFS, and if my credit in PFS (stars etc) was reflected in SFS then I'd be ok to GM too, but not interested in building again from 0.
PFS events with some SFS tables would be great, and the PbP community would be an interesting place to run some SFS too.
Hmm.
The only way I'd get into Starfinder would be if there was an SFS, and if my credit in PFS (stars etc) was reflected in SFS then I'd be ok to GM too, but not interested in building again from 0.
PFS events with some SFS tables would be great, and the PbP community would be an interesting place to run some SFS too.
I'm with you, half the fun of Pathfinder is PFS and one way to get me to love this new game is having an SFS. I totally want one.
Yep, PFS is what keeps me in Pathfinder.
I don't have the sort of career that really allows for a lot of campaign 'home game' type play, and my regular group is made up of an eclectic bunch of adults who only seem to have 'time poor' as the common factor in our work lives. PFS was the lifeline to our ability to keep on trucking and playing.
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It's called being an adult. Organized play is how most of us working people get our role playing fix. I really hope Paizo at some point does organize an SFS.Yep, PFS is what keeps me in Pathfinder.
I don't have the sort of career that really allows for a lot of campaign 'home game' type play, and my regular group is made up of an eclectic bunch of adults who only seem to have 'time poor' as the common factor in our work lives. PFS was the lifeline to our ability to keep on trucking and playing.
This right here for me... I am in a 24/7 work enviroment (for the time being) so any home games are nigh impossible, the PFS is just perfect for me...
I think I see the main problem with SFS now -- lack of material, at least for the first year or so. It looks as though the Starfinder product line will consist of an initial core rulebook followed by one adventure path and then another. A PFS-like organization would need sanctioned modules, which would be non-existent initially.
My hypothetical timeline for such a development would definitely spur impatience. I could see the 2018 RPG Superstar contest being geared towards Starfinder, since at that point the game would have been available long enough for the contestants to have learned the system. Prizes for this contest would include the chance to author stand-alone Starfinder modules. These modules would start coming out in 2019, and by 2020 there would be enough of them to start up SFS with a reasonable supply of sanctioned modules.
Id like SFS to be totally different from PFS. New factions (or not EVEN a faction system at all). Starfinder needs to have its own identity, not constantly draw comparisons to Pathfinder if its going to find its own market base.
First change I'd like would be the name...Something on the order of Starfinder League.
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I think the biggest issue that Paizo has would be committing to producing all those new scenarios and creating enough content for a vibrant world. But yes, I would love the organized play between the two to be connected, with GM stars carrying over in the same way that CORE and Classic are connected.
Hmm
Id like SFS to be totally different from PFS. New factions (or not EVEN a faction system at all). Starfinder needs to have its own identity, not constantly draw comparisons to Pathfinder if its going to find its own market base.First change I'd like would be the name...Something on the order of Starfinder League.
Or it could be called the Starfinder Corps. Sounds nicely sci-fi.
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It's called being an adult. Organized play is how most of us working people get our role playing fix.
How did THAT happen!? I was told being an adult meant getting to set my own bedtime and make my own rules, now I have a person in my house for whom I make the rules and send to bed, and don't have the same free time I used to - holidays now means 'do taxes, fix house, run errands' when it used to mean 'Yay D&D Monday to Friday, stock up the chips and soft drinks and clear the decks!'
Anyhow, would love an SFS organised play campaign, even if it is a bit slower than PFS (monthly instalment or something) otherwise the all that will happen is I'll pick up another Core rulebook for a game I read over and over and have some nice ideas about, but remains unplayed on a shelf.
It's called being an adult. Organized play is how most of us working people get our role playing fix. I really hope Paizo at some point does organize an SFS.
Not sure if it is safe to generalize to that extent. Lots of people who don't do organized play fly under the radar. I don't think anyone in my home group does organized play on a regular basis and all 6 of us have full-time jobs, several have families. We still manage to game almost every week for 3-4 hours.
I have to say though, name Starfinder confuses me
I mean, stars are kinda easy to find in the "Look at the sky in the night" way. Name sounds kinda redundant in that way xD And searching for far away star is less exploring and more telescopes and satellites
It think it implies "Find new stars and civilizations."
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Anyone remember Living Dragonstar? Oh yes. I'll be happy to be involved in this. :)
i *loved* Dragonstar. i still have the books and the published adventures. i might even still have the Living Dragonstar events on a hard-drive somewhere. i can honestly say that i will be very, very happy to be involved in Starfinder Society if it comes to pass.
Anyone remember Living Dragonstar? Oh yes. I'll be happy to be involved in this. :)i *loved* Dragonstar. i still have the books and the published adventures. i might even still have the Living Dragonstar events on a hard-drive somewhere. i can honestly say that i will be very, very happy to be involved in Starfinder Society if it comes to pass.
Remember playing it at Origins? I still have some memory of playing a wizard with a laser rifle (or somesuch). Good fun, as I'm sure Starfinder Society would be as well.
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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I want it. And I want it badly.
I don't think much more needs to be said, but just in case Paizo is on the fence about this:
The singular strength of Pathfinder, and what allows it to keep it's "edge" in the fight against D&D (and it *is* a fight, polite and proper though the two combatants may be), is the presence of a hugely popular, and very well supported, organized play system.
Over two years ago (three?) I started a thread discussing the likely impact of 5e on PFS attendance. That thread grew contentious, so I will not link to it, but ultimately many of my concerns bore fruit. My PFS tables lost a great deal of players to the 5e OrgPlay events. WotC has been able to maintain that momentum by keeping things very loose and simple, which admittedly pushes many players back to PFS in the long run. But the number one thing that D&D's OrgPlay system does better than PFS by a long shot is attract brand new players to their game. By being loose and simple, there is very little for a new player to concern themselves with, beyond showing up. PFS - admit it - is complicated. Core PFS went a little ways toward addressing that, but unfortunately became more a vehicle for veterans to double their playing options than it is a way to attract new players. And because PFS and Pathfinder have had such a difficult time attracting NEW players, my PFS attendance continues to slip.
Starfinder could fix all that, and more. Savage Worlds has a large draw to their OrgPlay system (another one that is very loose and casual) due to the presence of sci-fi options. But many of those guys are often looking for more than the "one shot" experience that Savage Worlds tends to be. Fantasy Flight has completely dropped the ball on its (massively popular) Star Wars RPG by not having ANY OrgPlay system at all. Only Shadowrun offers a consistently good OrgPlay game, but their actual organizational structure (their real-world implementation, in other words) is terrible.
That paragraph contains a LOT of upside for a Starfinder OrgPlay game. And that's not even counting how much Paizo can attract simply due to the power of its own brands.
I truly believe that if Starfinder had been Paizo's response to 5e during that initial year of "D&D Next" then they would never have given up their position as the Top Selling RPG Publisher. Despite that, I think Starfinder (and a Starfinder Society campaign) could dramatically re-position this company.
I am really looking forward to being a part of that effort. I hope those plans are in the works.
Looks like you're hoping the starfinder SYSTEM will be loose and flexible? I mean even with just the core rules pathfinder is a little rules heavy.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8
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My personal opinion is that SFS isn't going to happen. It would basically require Paizo to double its expenditures on organized play (developer, OPC, scenario workload, etc.) I just don't see that in the cards.
I might suggest a yearly pregen special (ala True Dragons of Absalom).
I've been thinking about this as well, and it seems to me it would be easy to implement the OP infrastructure as a parallel campaign to PFS. Similar to the Core PFS campaign, it could use all the same website elements, and combine the reward structures (GM stars, boons*, etc.).
That would likely favor existing PFS customers over new players though.
(*Imagine a boon that lets a Starfinder character inherit a trait or item from a PFS ancestor!)
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The Pathfinder system has become extremely overwhelming, even for us veterans. With one or two of the wrong players at the table, that massive complicatedness will only be underscored to any new players at the table. It takes a site organizer or a VC who's really good at handling new players, and that's once they're already there -- never mind how to get them there in the first place.
Have you tried at all specifically setting up events for new players? With a few carefully-chosen veterans at the table willing to play with new players and not be know-it-all flaunt-their-position-on-the-sectrum nerds who will lord over the newbies how much they don't know. And a GM who is at least at 0.2 on the Hoskins Scale of being a good GM for new players. I don't know if this is something that is practical or possible to work in any event.
I do worry a little looking at my local PFS community that we don't have a lot of new blood coming into it, and that some players we used to see are players we don't see much any more. It's still very robust, and I think it's more robust than the 5e organized play (although I could just never be seeing the 5e OP), but it's hard to know how much longer it will really survive. (I'd bet at least a couple of years, but would not try to predict after that.)
Back to the topic at hand: Starfinder OP would be a really good idea, especially if lessons learned from PFS could be applied. The #1 thing to make different, I think, is the level of paperwork, or at least the perception of the level of paperwork. The system itself will be what the system itself is; Pathfinder is a complicated system. But all I can't help but think that the paperwork, at least as it's nominally supposed to be done, only encumbers the system more.
Also, Simeon pointed out that the name "Starfinder Corps" would be way cooler and setting-appropriate than "Starfinder Society". :)
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Starfinder Society could have great potential, but would double the work on the Paizo staff to create scenarios and events. If it is set 1000 years in the future, it would mean no cross over between PFS and SPFS most likely. Still there likely will be a fan base for this that it could happen eventually.
I'd be happy to see that happen, but that might mean that gamers would be divided between PFS and SPFS which wouldn't be as great. It's a bit early to hope for it, but interested to see if it does develop.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Looks like you're hoping the starfinder SYSTEM will be loose and flexible?
Not at all, actually. "Fresh" can be just as attractive as "simple." The "loose" part actually harms player retention.
I just don't see that in the cards.
Lisa Stevens has said many times that OrgPlay is one of her top considerations when looking at new product lines. She carved out space in Paizo's budget for the ACG OrgPlay system. I think she will see the value in this, as well.
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The real hope is that Starfinder will bring in lots of people who might not be interested in "yet another" D&D-style fantasy game -- i.e. the primary RPG genre (D&D is its own genre) we've all been playing since the 1970s -- but people who will be attracted to the whole science fantasy thing.
I'm hoping that Starfinder really does have a different "feel" than Pathfinder, rather than just being "Pathfinder in Space". From the designer/developer panel (Rob M, James S, Owen KC S) it does definitely sound like they are going for this.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Count me on board with the Starfinder Corps name, as well. I put "Society" up there merely for the fact that it is a recognizable part of what we see as Organized Play.
As for concerns of splitting the player base, I offer the ACG PFS as evidence that this will not happen. Sure, that system has taken some of the players away from the RPG side (most notably among them Painlord, himself). But there are a lot of new players that have come to that system for the play experience, and many of them have branched into PFS, itself. Go look through their boards to see.
More evidence to the lack of split: read this very thread. How many of our Venture staff did you read about playing that game at Paizocon, and enjoying it? I don't think you'll be seeing them abandon PFS in favor of the ACG. Instead, they see it as more options for their gaming consumption, while remaining in a familiar space. This is a good thing.
And rknop, if you aren't aware of my Learn to Play Pathfinder night, then you haven't delved much into my anti-replay arguments. I tout the creation of new players as Point #1 in maintaining a healthy OrgPlay system, and the presence of that night on my schedule is hugely important to that effort. Despite this, attracting new players to Pathfinder since the publication of 5e has been difficult, at best.
Edit: My own (read as: anecdotal) evidence about the loss of PFS players: two years ago I would run 4 tables at 4 different slots each month for PFS. I would get those tables filled with reservations within two to three days of announcing the schedule, so was considering adding a 5th table; only space was a concern, here. Now, I only offer 3 tables at those four slots, and often have 4-player tables (and even occasionally cancel tables). Meanwhile, I have SIX tables of D&D Encounters every Wednesday, and more players clamoring for space.
I'm almost positive that this idea is already in the works. With Paizo having open source content, I would believe that a good chunk of their revenue comes from people purchasing the products for legal use in PFS. That isn't backed up with any evidence, but it just seems that way.
In terms of the divide, I think that would happen regardless. I, myself, love both genres and would love to play both. I think by adding this feature would draw more players overall, as there are many players out there who just don't like fantasy, but love spacey, alien stuff.
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At the Starfinder Panel (Rob M, James S, Owen KC S), they told us that this was a thing that they were obviously going to think about, but that they aren't thinking about yet. They know that it's something that people are interested in and that it's a good thing to do, but they also think it's premature to start really going with this, given that the full core rulebook of Starfinder isn't even designed yet. And, they know that particularly right now in the middle of summer Con season, the OP folks are completely absorbed with the irons currently in the fire.
So, I doubt it's really in the works, but rather at a stage of something most of them figure they're going to want to put into the works at some point.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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At the Starfinder Panel (Rob M, James S, Owen KC S), they told us that this was a thing that they were obviously going to think about, but that they aren't thinking about yet. They know that it's something that people are interested in and that it's a good thing to do, but they also think it's premature to start really going with this, given that the full core rulebook of Starfinder isn't even designed yet. And, they know that particularly right now in the middle of summer Con season, the OP folks are completely absorbed with the irons currently in the fire.
So, I doubt it's really in the works, but rather at a stage of something most of them figure they're going to want to put into the works at some point.
It needs to be front and center with development of the Core Book. Seriously.
They were able to work on launching Season 1 alongside the PF Core Rule Book (after having Season 0 operate alongside the Beta test rules). I think they can safely implement Starfinder Corps as well.
Then I'm pretty sure it's going to happen if they have already considered it, but are "busy" with development of the core. One step at a time is still steps towards the inevitable.
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"Best of all, Starfinder is designed to integrate easily with the Pathfinder roleplaying game, meaning your power-armored marine can still go toe to toe with orcs and dragons."
This is the line that gives me the most dread. It makes me concerned that they're going to go through a lot of effort and expense to try and cram more stuff into the shell of 3rd edition rules and I'm worried in the end it will just be Pathfinder in Space.
I wish they'd start work on something completely new. Sci Fi RPG? Wow yes! Easily integrated with Pathfinder? Uh oh.
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That's not what they're planning on doing, or at least that's what they claimed at the Starfinder panel.
It's going to be a familiar kind of system based on the D20 shell. It's not going to be additional subsystems built on top of Pathfinder. They explicitly said that if the latter was what they were after, they would have just published a single "Space Adventures" hardback instead of starting a whole new roleplaying game.
The core book will include at least suggestions, more likely guidelines and maybe even rules, for bringing monsters from Pathfinder into Starfinder. There will be suggestions and guidelines for bringing in classes, but that's not going to be a standard part of the assumption.
I got the impression at the panel that they realized that they were perhaps a little misleading in their advertisement of "backwards compatible", as they really aren't planning on just making a Pathfinder extension, but are rather making a d20ish-based classes-and-levels science fantasy game set in the future of Golarion's star system, set at least nominally for story purposes in the same continuity as that of the Inner Sea World Guide et al.