You Don't Have Any Actual Authority, Just Because You're A Paladin

[Neal Litherland]

A few things before I start off. One, this isn't JUST a post about paladins; they just happen to be the class this happens with the most. And Two, the main thrust of this post is questioning the assumptions that we make as gamers, and getting us to hold them at arm's length to get a better look at them.

Cool? Cool.

Anyway, this week I put together a fluff post titled You Don't Have Any Actual Authority, Just Because You're A Paladin, and there has been a lot of popular support for it. So I wanted to share it with the folks here, and hope that I could get some reasoned thoughts, and if any of my statements are incorrect, to get a page number with the rulings so I can alter what I said.

In short, I feel that too often we, as players, forget that having PC levels doesn't give our characters legitimate authority in the game world. Having levels of Inquisitor doesn't give you the ability to walk onto a murder scene and start ordering around NPCs like you're a watch detective, for example. Being a paladin doesn't automatically make you a recognized secular authority like a sheriff. If you do have that kind of authority, it typically comes as a part of your character's story, which includes membership in a law enforcement organization. Sometimes you might get limited authority as part of a prestige class (Grand Marshal, Hellknight, Eagle Knight, etc.), but if you're level one, it's probably because you and your DM agreed on a certain background.

The other point, and one that's gotten lost in the cross-talk up until now, is that because secular authority in the game world is granted through your story (for the most part), you don't have to have it if you don't want to. If you want to play a paladin who's just a lone adventurer, with no ties to a church or to a nation, you can do that. It's kind of like the lawful good rogue... we overlook it so often that we eventually forget it's something we can make, if we want to.

Anyway, these are my thoughts. What are yours?

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

The big surprise to me is that the article needed to be written at all.

Is it that common for players to think that because they're Paladins, they're agents of the law by default?

[KenderKin]

Or you do!

It depends on how you want to play your paladin.

The whole idea that you cannot play a paladin as an authority is contradicted by many factors....

The regional trait: justicar for example....

The prestige class of the same name...

The article basically says the paladin player and DM need to communicate with each other prior to playing. At no point does the article prove as the title asserts that you don't have any actual authority. Either position is merely assumption.
Most people by default assume that yes the paladin has authority, if a DM communicates another position I would talk to the DM about my vision for the character and if there was no give to rigid notions I would play something else or move on to a different game...

Of course you do the powers granted to the paladin ooze authority...

Have you considered the paladin spell list?
Can you put people on trial? Mediate border disputes?

Detect charm
Honeyed tongue
Zone of truth

[Blackwaltzomega]

I'm just going to point this out, citizen's arrests are a thing, and were far more common in older times, including the time periods Pathfinder usually imitates, than they are today.

A citizen's arrest coming from a divine agent of law and good seems like the sort of thing the town guards aren't going to get too pissy about unless you're in a town that is not kindly disposed towards the forces of good.

Also, the authority of any particular character is something the player and the GM should have laid out, and the GM does have a responsibility to point it out if the player has jurisdiction in one place but not another to help ease play.

[KenderKin]

I guess the follow up article about inquisitors not actually being able to be neither inquisitive nor carry out inquiries nor Inquisitions....since no rules actually give them any authority to do so....

ignore the fluff in the description... Nothing to see here...

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

Blackwaltzomega wrote:

I'm just going to point this out, citizen's arrests are a thing, and were far more common in older times, including the time periods Pathfinder usually imitates, than they are today.

Who's a citizen in this context? This isn't the United States where everyone is presumed to be of equal status. If some stranger started going into your lands and arresting your peasants, You being the local lord are going to get rather upset at someone usurping YOUR law.

[Insain Dragoon]

KenderKin wrote:

I guess the follow up article about inquisitors not actually being able to be neither inquisitive nor carry out inquiries nor Inquisitions....since no rules actually give them any authority to do so....

ignore the fluff in the description... Nothing to see here...

If you wanna be an Inquisitor of a certain sect then you may want o actually talk to your GM about how to do that instead of just walking into a crime scene on a random session and demanding to see the evidence.

Establish yourself before you become a fool.

[whew]

KenderKin wrote:

I guess the follow up article about inquisitors not actually being able to be neither inquisitive nor carry out inquiries nor Inquisitions....since no rules actually give them any authority to do so....

ignore the fluff in the description... Nothing to see here...

Just because the class name is Inquisitor, that doesn't mean Inquisitor has to be your day job. The Inquisitor can be any kind of sneaky undercover agent for his church.

[Mathmuse]

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

The big surprise to me is that the article needed to be written at all.

Is it that common for players to think that because they're Paladins, they're agents of the law by default?

It depends on the player and the player's experience.

I remember one D&D 3.0 game at first level where the party was waylaid by thugs in a city alley. We beat the thugs unconscious, and then the human paladin declared that he would finish them off. Immediately, the cleric of the god of thieves stood over the body of a thug and said the paladin would have to go through her first! And my gnome paladin started berating the human paladin as a clueless barbarian. The human paladin's player was accustomed to adventures in uncivilized wilderness or lost dungeons. He didn't realize that an urban campaign had law and order with proper authorities.

A decade later when I ran a Pathfinder Rise of the Runelords campaign, a human paladin of Iomedae joined the party. I explained to Sir James that the paladins and clerics of Iomedae had an organized structure with agreements with the local governments, and offered him a choice how his character would fit into that structure. He chose a wandering troubleshooter role, which defined his local authority. Towns would be willing to temporarily deputize him under the sheriff's command if they needed help, so he should properly introduce himself to the mayor or sheriff. The player liked that.

[KenderKin]

How to ignore text to formulate an argument....ignore the ooc portions

What is a paladin?

CRB says....
Through a select, worthy few shines the power of the divine. Called paladins, these noble souls dedicate their swords and lives to the battle against evil. Knights, crusaders, and law-bringers, paladins seek not just to spread divine justice but to embody the teachings of the virtuous deities they serve.

In pursuit of their lofty goals, they adhere to ironclad laws of morality and discipline. As reward for their righteousness, these holy champions are blessed with boons to aid them in their quests: powers to banish evil, heal the innocent, and inspire the faithful. Although their convictions might lead them into conflict with the very souls they would save, paladins weather endless challenges of faith and dark temptations, risking their lives to do right and fighting to bring about a brighter future.

[wynterknight]

@KenderKin: None of that actually has anything to do with actually having secular authority. Just because you're on a mission from god doesn't mean the local government has to actually grant you any legal authority.

[Insain Dragoon]

It's almost like you need to roleplay to benefit from role play!

If you want your Paladin to have legitimate authority talk to your GM. Don't assume. We all know about people who assume right?

[KenderKin]

wynterknight wrote:

@KenderKin: None of that actually has anything to do with actually having secular authority. Just because you're on a mission from god doesn't mean the local government has to actually grant you any legal authority.

Are those actually separate things in a fantasy world? Or are you also making more assumptions....

If your game is not in line with common fantasy assumptions then as DM it is your job to communicate that to players in your game. Though providing it as anything more than opinion is poor form...in my humble opinion.

[Neal Litherland]

KenderKin wrote:

wynterknight wrote:

@KenderKin: None of that actually has anything to do with actually having secular authority. Just because you're on a mission from god doesn't mean the local government has to actually grant you any legal authority.

Are those actually separate things in a fantasy world? Or are you also making more assumptions....

If your game is not in line with common fantasy assumptions then as DM it is your job to communicate that to players in your game. Though providing it as anything more than opinion is poor form...in my humble opinion.

Let's assume, since it seems we have to say it, that the post is about Golarion, and the nations therein. Since it's what we have as a "common world" for setting.

A DM can declare in his or her setting that characters of certain classes are, inherently, agents of the law, or the government. But, nowhere in the class description does it say that's a requirement. And nowhere in your class abilities for base classes do you get an ability that gives you command or control of NPCs.

That's the point being made, here. If you choose to play a base class, and you want that character to have some position in the game, whether that's a deputy sheriff in Sandpoint, or a city watchman in Korvosa, that is not inherently tied to your class. That is your backstory and RP. Difficulties come when players don't do the story work, but assume that, by virtue of their class, they get those social benefits anyway.

[Neal Litherland]

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

The big surprise to me is that the article needed to be written at all.

Is it that common for players to think that because they're Paladins, they're agents of the law by default?

Judging from the response to the article on my social media, and the stories people have been sharing, it seems to be quite common.

I consider this piece another small part of my personal quest to try and get us to examine our assumptions. I like paladins, and I like cops, but I don't like to play a character who is both. But the response to either having a lawful good character with a badge, who has no paladin levels, or a paladin who is humble, and who turns things over to the local law as soon as it's possible to do so, both get some serious side-eye whenever I get invited to a new group.

[hasteroth]

Just as a Monk doesn't have to be a member of a monastic order, a Paladin doesn't have to be an agent of his religion's organizational system in any capacity. All classes (except those with specific rules for it, like Cavalier Orders) do not require your PC to be a member of any specific organization (Prestige classes notwithstanding, some archetypes notwithstanding). An Inquisitor can be rogue, acting as a zealot for his religion without any real authority granted by his Church. As such it should never be assumed by the player that they possess authority, it should always be discussed and cleared with the GM.

There's nothing that says you can't have authority, and also nothing saying you automatically possess it by class alone. So if a player shows up with zero back story, they don't get to walk around the Church like they own the place.

[KenderKin]

Neal Litherland wrote:

KenderKin wrote:

wynterknight wrote:

@KenderKin: stuff

Other stuff

And nowhere in your class abilities for base classes do you get an ability that gives you command or control of NPCs.

Where is this coming from? Any PC regardless of class can attempt to command or control NPCs, that's what skills (bluff, intimidate, diplomacy, etc...) And spells are for (charm person, sleep, etc)....

Now if you are saying some people by virtue of being a paladin assume that every tom, dick and harry is going to take orders from them. The solution would likely be laughing in his face....

[hasteroth]

The lesson here is that showing up without a back story means you can't expect to be taken seriously anytime you say "My character is such and such etc etc from the town of yaddayadda" in order to claim any type of authority or justification for certain actions.

[Sir Constantine Godalming]

I suggest you put lots of thought into your paladin and your background.

I even do it with names.

[Neal Litherland]

Sir Constantine Godalming wrote:

I suggest you put lots of thought into your paladin and your background.

I even do it with names.

This is wise counsel. I wish more people would take it.

[hasteroth]

Neal Litherland wrote:

Sir Constantine Godalming wrote:

I suggest you put lots of thought into your paladin and your background.

I even do it with names.

This is wise counsel. I wish more people would take it.

The names part too, I always recommend players think their names through because later on they might not care for it... Plus its just a little extra flavor to play around with.

[Akkurscid]

I would like to add I have played a paladin who was an official local law enforcement officer, not the sheriff though according to the below he would have been considered part of the "Watch". It was quite fun.

However some good info can be found at http://www.britainexpress.com/History/Townlife.htm
in part you can find...

Quote:

Law Enforcement

Law and order in the town was enforced by the beadle or constables, who could call on citizens to form a night Watch. If a "hue and cry" was raised to chase a criminal all citizens had to join in or risk being fined. The penalty for the criminal was much higher. A thief found in possession of stolen goods was hanged.

Another tidbit from a different site...

Quote:

After the passing of the Statute of Winchester, militias again were tasked with raising the "hue and cry" if there were intruders/law breakers in the area. This required them to call out when they had seen a crime committed, and then required them to chase the criminal until caught. These men would have been under the authority of the local magnate or the sheriff, and so we can see in this system the remnants/revival of some of the fyrd system of maintaining order.

Yes in medieval times the small communities were largely responsible for themselves and citizen arrests were the thing. You would then call for the constable to do a proper arrest. So if a paladin is chasing thieves and catching them he his doing his job as a citizen. If he let the crime go unpunished, and someone witnessed that, he could be fined for not doing his duty as a citizen.

All this hinges on how the local law enforcement works in a particular area, which is of course, up to the local GM.

[Claxon]

You might not have any authority, but you also might.

It's more often a question of exactly how important you are and how much authority you have. And the answer at level 1 is, barely any. Regardless of what class you are.

All classes are equally capable of being "lawful authorities" with different takes on how to role play it.

A wizard could be an investigator who uses his magic to assist in investigations. The paladin could be like a beat cop. There are many ways you could approach it.

[Ventnor]

Insain Dragoon wrote:

It's almost like you need to roleplay to benefit from role play!

If you want your Paladin to have legitimate authority talk to your GM. Don't assume. We all know about people who assume right?

Something about both parties wildshaping into donkies, if I remember correctly.

[Blackwaltzomega]

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

Blackwaltzomega wrote:

I'm just going to point this out, citizen's arrests are a thing, and were far more common in older times, including the time periods Pathfinder usually imitates, than they are today.

Who's a citizen in this context? This isn't the United States where everyone is presumed to be of equal status. If some stranger started going into your lands and arresting your peasants, You being the local lord are going to get rather upset at someone usurping YOUR law.

Being too literal-minded here.

In fact, the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 has a section which refers to citizen's arrest as "any person arrest," and indeed you did not need to be a British Citizen to make a Citizen's Arrest/Any Person Arrest. You can be given grief for false imprisonment if you didn't see the crime committed, announce your intent, or used unreasonable force to detain the individual, but otherwise someone passing through can still make a citizen's arrest and deliver someone they observed committing a crime to the proper authorities.

And these are laws that have existed RECENTLY, when there is a much larger, better-organized police force than there would be in any Pathfinder campaign. Local sheriffs in a backwater somewhere are questionably likely to get lippy with a knight who was observed preventing a crime, particularly given how often adventurers are called in to deal with bandit activity. If you're going to get snippy about jurisdiction when someone catches a petty thief and delivers him to the watch, you're entering shaky ground expecting those same strangers to deal with the bandits that are well outside the watch's capacity to defeat.

That said, it is a good point to take away that the players should have a good understanding of how much clout their backstories allow them, as should the GM, who should really not start playing "gotcha" with the players rather than making it clear to them where they stand with local law.

And this isn't just about paladins, either, although everyone loves to harp on how to make the paladin's life harder for no particular reason. I've seen plenty of wizards who assume the various local wizards who have never heard of the town they're from will give them the time of day, much less trade information with them. Given how paranoid PC wizards tend to be, I usually respond in kind.

[Larkos]

I understand why people think a paladin or inquisitor would have a defined role in society and in the church of the god(dess) they worship. There is a real, in-world difference between them and a cleric or non-magical priest. They receive power from a deity.

What that means vis-à-vis society depends on how that god(dess) is viewed. A cleric or inquisitor of Asmodeus in Cheliax is going to be viewed differently than a cleric of Milani or even of Abadar.

Does this give you actual authority? That again depends on the type of nation you're in. Certainly not in Rahadoum but in a theocracy it should. The aforementioned advice about actually roleplaying and talking with your gm is sound and should be done regardless of class. But don't look down on people for assuming things that are easy to infer.

[GM Rednal]

Yeah, this is something to talk about with your GM. XD

[Mykull]

I find the Watch coming upon the Paladin & Co. much more often than the reverse.

SCENARIO #1
The Watch arrives in a timely manner, let's say within two minutes (which is still 20 combat rounds, so the battle is long over by then), and asks, “Hey! What's going on here?”

The Paladin explains what those ne'er-do-wells were up to and, assuming that the lawful good Paladin & Co. were behaving in a lawful good way, and that an average Diplomacy roll was made with & Co. aiding another, the Watch usually thanks the group for doing the whole “stepping up like a good citizen should” and carts off the body.

And since the group usually just took care of a problem that would've hosed a Watch patrol (or has already hosed a Watch patrol or two), the Watch is predisposed to be amicable to the Paladin's explanation. This scene sets up respect for the Paladin & Co. that is only strengthened by further encounters.

SCENARIO #2
It is very rare indeed for me to run a group where the Paladin struts up to a crime scene like Tommy Lee Jones at the bus/train crash in The Fugitive and commandeers the investigation so that her credentials are required.

The Paladin (or any other character) doesn't assume that they have authority because they are a Paladin (or whatever class); the players assume that they are the main characters in the story and, therefore, the story is going to be about them as opposed to them having to step on the authorities' toes by forcefully interjecting themselves into the action.

Of course, any DM can tell whatever story they want; I'm just saying that in 30+ years of gaming I can count the number of times I have either run or played Scenario #2 on one hand while Scenario #1 has occurred more times than I can recall.

Besides, if a player is assuming an authority that s/he doesn't have, the DM should pause before the scene escalates and tell the player, “I just want to be clear here: You're character is behaving as though they have an authority that they really don't have, and your character would know that they don't have the authority to order these people about. If you want to continue though, you can, but Bluff or Intimidate checks are about to be required.”

Players respond with either, “Yeah, I know, but I'm gonna push it,” or, “Oh, wow, man, I didn't really realize that. No, no, I'm not gonna try and boss him around if I'm not an actual authority figure.”

[Quandary]

I don't experience this as a big problem.
Yes, there isn't any "automatic" association, and if the character does have such a role it has contextual limitations and concomitant expectations, as any other role in the setting.
So characters act however they want, somebody acting outside the scope of their community-received role will encounter "feedback" pretty immediately, so if it's a problem it won't be for long. And that's also an interesting character who thinks they're Tommy Lee Jones but runs into reality. So they deal. And the world deals around them. They don't lose the game for pushing the boundaries.

But Jesus F*ing Christ, what kind of Paladin thread is this?
I haven't seen Lawful Good mentioned once. What the hell is the world coming to?

EDIT: BUUUT... If they're a Paladin who took the Tommy Lee Jones PrC... ;-)

[HyperMissingno]

Quandary wrote:

But Jesus F*ing Christ, what kind of Paladin thread is this?

I haven't seen Lawful Good mentioned once. What the hell is the world coming to?

I know right! I have seen anyone using the useless word classic to make their point look better all thread and people are actually civil! I doubt it's going to last though once...the usual suspects come in.

[Kobold Catgirl]

Hey, is it an evil act for my paladin to abuse their nonexistent authority?

[Tacticslion]

One possibility where the illusion comes from is the conflation of the class from their mythological and historical connotations and associations it was inspired by.

Knight being an actual noble title (one with authority), and palatin coming from palatinus (an official connected to the Roman emperor) has a loooooooot of historical weight behind it.

One of the interesting things, is that such information can filter back into people, even if they don't consciously or fully understand said history, simply by local osmosis or implication or inference due to other things they've encountered, even in seemingly unrelated fields.

This links back to them being called "knights" and "law-bringers" - this latter word is especially important, as it implies that they actually do bring the law (that and that they "adhere to ironclad laws" bit).

To be sure, the class features and mechanics don't really have anything like that associated with it, but I can easily see how (intentionally or not), a player may come to the (potentially) wrong* conclusion that a paladin has temporal power. Because, you know, the origin was directly tied to that and the fluff implies they do, even though nothing actually grants it to them in-game.

Similarly, the Inquisitor "feels" implied to have actual authority within the church... even when they don't, really.

It's part of balancing the fluff with the mechanics, and every table can and should come to their own conclusions, but it's understandable that various people think that their own is the right or "obvious" one.

* Or not, depending on the table.

[ElyasRavenwood]

It may be worth noting what Gary Gygax had to say about paladins

[HWalsh]

It's fine, generally, for the Sheriff to ignore the Paladin or refuse him/her access to a crime scene.

The Paladin, also, should ignore the authority of the Sheriff if the Sheriff can't or won't do the job.

Any Sheriff who has half a brain would never dismiss a Paladin though. To do so could easily equate to political suicide.

Of course, many groups ignore the fluff and treat classes as nothing but balls of skills and abilities. In those kinds of groups the Paladin isn't any different from a normal townsfolk.

Me? I don't play under GMs who strip out class fluff.

[Kevin Mack]

I find the opening example given in the article to be a bit of a weak one myself since I doubt law enforcement would generally arrest anyone for chasing down a pair of thieves.

[coldvictim]

While citizens arrest, and militia actions, have been part of law in most societies also have laws against vigilantes, this would include so called knights errant who, whilst they think they have the support of God, don't have any jurisdiction from the local or national law.

[Lucy_Valentine]

Mathmuse wrote:

Towns would be willing to temporarily deputize him under the sheriff's command if they needed help, so he should properly introduce himself to the mayor or sheriff. The player liked that.

And he got to introduce himself as a deputy!

...and not get shot!

[Distant Scholar]

Attempting to distill the opening post to its thesis sentence:

Neal Litherland wrote:

In short, I feel that too often we, as players, forget that having PC levels doesn't give our characters legitimate authority in the game world.

It's long been a trope in adventure fiction that the hero takes on what the local authorities can't, or won't. It's no surprise that we want to bring that into our adventure games. [I'm also currently binge-watching Arrow, so it's on my mind.]

[GM Rednal]

Sometimes, getting involved is what gives the characters their power (either directly, or because the local authority gives it to them). XD I can actually think of several published adventures, right off the top of my head, where this is true.

[Charon's Little Helper]

While you might not have official authority (depending upon the world) - as a paladin, everyone will trust you. Why? Because you're a paladin. That is why the Paladin Code isn't a drawback; it's a class feature. As soon as someone knows that you're a paladin, they know that they can trust you.

PCs in general are scary people. They have a lot of power in a small package, and they often do not even give lip service to any authority but their own. If group of 4 people appear out of nowhere and start telling everyone that The Lich of Dunwall is rising up and they need to martial their forces to stop his undead hordes... is anyone going to believe them? The nobles will suspect that it might be a power grab, and the peasants might just be scared.

Unless one of those 4 is a paladin. Then, even if the nobles are wary of them, they will know that every word that the paladin says is true and will act accordingly.

I can only suspect that a local sheriff would act similarly.

[KenderKin]

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Hey, is it an evil act for my paladin to abuse their nonexistent authority?

Or is it a lawful act in a chaotic situation?

Or a chaotic act to unlawfully seize authority?

[Saldiven]

KenderKin wrote:

wynterknight wrote:

@KenderKin: None of that actually has anything to do with actually having secular authority. Just because you're on a mission from god doesn't mean the local government has to actually grant you any legal authority.

Are those actually separate things in a fantasy world? Or are you also making more assumptions....

They're quite separate things if the Paladin is operating in a realm that venerates a different god more highly than the Paladin's patron. The more different the two, the less likely the Paladin will be granted any legal authority. Heck, if they're different enough, the Paladin may be the criminal by his/her mere presence.

[thejeff]

HWalsh wrote:

It's fine, generally, for the Sheriff to ignore the Paladin or refuse him/her access to a crime scene.

The Paladin, also, should ignore the authority of the Sheriff if the Sheriff can't or won't do the job.

Any Sheriff who has half a brain would never dismiss a Paladin though. To do so could easily equate to political suicide.

That's assuming the Sheriff & the town agree with the Paladin's position. If it's a petty crime, sure. If the Paladin's harassing a prominent, popular local figure with accusations he's involved in some mysterious plot, then it might be a different story.

Especially if the town isn't particularly Lawful Good.
Obviously, if the Sheriff is himself corrupt, he's going to try to dismiss the Paladin - or worse.

There's also the question of how are they sure this stranger wandering into town actually is a Paladin.

[thejeff]

Saldiven wrote:

KenderKin wrote:

wynterknight wrote:

@KenderKin: None of that actually has anything to do with actually having secular authority. Just because you're on a mission from god doesn't mean the local government has to actually grant you any legal authority.

Are those actually separate things in a fantasy world? Or are you also making more assumptions....

They're quite separate things if the Paladin is operating in a realm that venerates a different god more highly than the Paladin's patron. The more different the two, the less likely the Paladin will be granted any legal authority. Heck, if they're different enough, the Paladin may be the criminal by his/her mere presence.

Some random Paladin wandering into Cheliax and attacking people for consorting with devils isn't likely to fare well. :)

[GM Rednal]

Saldiven wrote:

They're quite separate things if the Paladin is operating in a realm that venerates a different god more highly than the Paladin's patron. The more different the two, the less likely the Paladin will be granted any legal authority. Heck, if they're different enough, the Paladin may be the criminal by his/her mere presence.

This assumes the Paladin has a patron. Unlike clerics, they are not required to worship a deity, and can get magical powers through sheer force of goodness. XD Admittedly, many of them probably appreciate the help and support being part of a church can provide, but it's not necessary for them to follow anyone.

[Insain Dragoon]

"What's a Paladin"

[Claxon]

thejeff wrote:

Saldiven wrote:

KenderKin wrote:

wynterknight wrote:

@KenderKin: None of that actually has anything to do with actually having secular authority. Just because you're on a mission from god doesn't mean the local government has to actually grant you any legal authority.

Are those actually separate things in a fantasy world? Or are you also making more assumptions....

They're quite separate things if the Paladin is operating in a realm that venerates a different god more highly than the Paladin's patron. The more different the two, the less likely the Paladin will be granted any legal authority. Heck, if they're different enough, the Paladin may be the criminal by his/her mere presence.

Some random Paladin wandering into Cheliax and attacking people for consorting with devils isn't likely to fare well. :)

Only a stupid good (as opposed to lawful stupid) paladin would do that in the first place.

But this proves the point being made. A paladin in Cheliax is treated with mistrust and suspicion, as the government knows he is opposed to their purpose at some point. Maybe not in the exact action they're doing now (because they're both lawful) but at some point they're going to be opposed to one another.

But in the same way Paladin's of Iomedae can't just walk into a random church of Asmodeus and start arresting people, the Chellish government (probably) wont just arrest the paladin without having some reason (which may or may not be completely fabricated).

[Charon's Little Helper]

Claxon wrote:

But this proves the point being made. A paladin in Cheliax is treated with mistrust and suspicion, as the government knows he is opposed to their purpose at some point. Maybe not in the exact action they're doing now (because they're both lawful) but at some point they're going to be opposed to one another.

Yes and no.

The Cheliax government will be wary of the paladin, but that's not the same as mistrust.

If the paladin straight-up vows that he is not there to mess with the government or its citizens while he is visiting their nation, they will believe him despite being opposed to him. Why? Because he's a paladin.

Paladins are so trustworthy that both their allies and enemies trust them. Now, their enemies will also trust that the paladin will oppose them; but they will still trust his word.

[Veilgn]

But his weapon have authority.