1) In the section of the rulebook that talks about "Determine Which Skill You're Using" (p.12 in the WotR rulebook), the Cutlass says something like "For your combat check, ...", which determines the skill you're using for the check. So it adds the Swashbuckling trait to the check (among others), which means that you can reroll 1 die on your check when you're encountering a monster.
2) Your Cutlass is not displayed, it is revealed; displayed has a very specific meaning. In the back of the rulebook, reveal means to show it then to put it back into your hand, so you'll have to discard it, since it is in your hand when you're damaged.
3) You cannot use a Thieves' Tools item to defeat another character's barrier check, because you cannot defeat another character's barrier at all. On p.29 of the WotR rulebook, it says "No One Else Can Take Your Turn for You. Whenever you encounter a
card or make a check, you—and only you—must resolve it. No other character can evade it, defeat it, acquire it, close it, decide what to do with it, or fail at doing any of those things."
4) Yes, you randomize where the Hammerhead Shark will go, and you'll know where it is. It doesn't tell you it's treated like a villain and escapes, so don't do that.
Sorry about that. I am still learning it is overwhelming my first card game and trying it by myself. Lots of characters I was playing with to try to learn what they do.
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I'm sure James was just making a friendly correction. The people on this board are nearly uniformly nice and most seem to like answering rules questions.
Welcome and good luck!
Cards that are summoned never go anywhere but back in the box. And when the rulebook says never, nothing overrules that.
Unless the card that summoned it in the first place says to do something else with it. For instance the location where you "summon and acquire a plunder card" to close it, you still keep the acquired card.
Which is what the rulebook says, so you're still right at least about nothing overruling it.
On this question (#5) generally, does anyone else find it kind of odd that the absolute first scenario of the whole game has this rules interaction, which, I would honestly expect most people to get wrong?
Well, you gotta learn sometime :P.
Also, the closing text says "you may immediately attempt to close the location this henchmen came from." A summoned henchman came from the box, not the location. I'm assuming Mike and company wanted to set that precedent early to avoid some of the confusion people had with Runelords in the beginning.
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I'm sure James was just making a friendly correction.Sorry about that. I am still learning it is overwhelming my first card game and trying it by myself. Lots of characters I was playing with to try to learn what they do.
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Absolutely true. There is nothing for which to apologize. Please feel welcome, and encouraged to ask questions (no matter how "basic" they seem). I certainly ask my fair share, and that's how I learn things.
I recently opened a post because I realized I was completely wrong about how to "Banish" a card, and that's PACG 101 stuff. B-)
If you've got a bunch of questions over a short period of time, then posting more here is probably best. If, say, a week goes by and you've got 1 more question, I'd start a new thread so that the thread title more accurately represents the question and can help others that have the same question find it.
But I don't think there are any actual rules about such things.
If I can ask a newbie question or two:
1. Where are characters before their first turn? Does everyone start at a location when the first turn is made or are they 'off the board' somehow?
Here's where it makes a difference: say there are six PCs and eight locations. On the very first turn, the first card is the villain! Now if all the other characters are off the board, they can't close locations. If they were evenly distributed across locations, they could try to temporarily close them. But they might suffer effects before their first turn ever arrived. Which is it?
2. A character defeats a henchman and tries to close a location, but fails the 'on close'. The henchman is back in the box. To close the location, does a character have to move there and have an encounter with the top card, or is it sufficient to go straight to the 'on close' criteria? This has happened twice at Sandpoint Cathedral for me.
Hey there. Welcome to the team.
1. Each character chooses a location before drawing their starting hand. Whichever location they choose is where they are before they take their first turn as well as at the start of their first turn.
2. If you defeat the henchman, but fail to close the location, you'll have to get through the rest of the cards in that location before you gain another attempt to close. If you end up in that situation, you may want to consider focusing on other locations until you've narrowed down the villain's location. You could then return to the henchmanless location for temp closing purposes.
I hope that helps.
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1. You start at a location of your choice. (We played this one wrong for awhile too.) Pro tip: If your preferred location has a nasty start of turn check or effect, start somewhere else and move there on your first turn.
2. You need to empty out the deck if there's no henchman there. Then before you end your turn, you can attempt to close it. Pro tip: Sometimes in these cases it's better to just plan to temp close this location when the villain pops up.
EDIT: Gah! Ninja'd again!
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Cards that are summoned never go anywhere but back in the box. And when the rulebook says never, nothing overrules that.Unless the card that summoned it in the first place says to do something else with it. For instance the location where you "summon and acquire a plunder card" to close it, you still keep the acquired card.
Which is what the rulebook says, so you're still right at least about nothing overruling it.
On this question (#5) generally, does anyone else find it kind of odd that the absolute first scenario of the whole game has this rules interaction, which, I would honestly expect most people to get wrong?
Question that came up this weekend: Say you're playing Darago, and you hit that barrier where everyone summons an Ancient Skeleton. Can you do your necromancer thing with it? I didn't think so, but they guy playing Darago said he could.
I believe there was a thread discussing this with regards to Balazar in Wrath and that the official answer is that the summoned monsters would go back to the box. I personally would rather that be changed, but I understand that such a power could cause problems in a case where a unique henchman was summoned and ended up in a character's hand.
1. You start at a location of your choice. (We played this one wrong for awhile too.) Pro tip: If your preferred location has a nasty start of turn check or effect, start somewhere else and move there on your first turn.
Similarly if there's a location with a helpful power then it can be a good idea for everyone to start there. Swallowtail Festival is a good one, you can shuffle away all the bad cards you started the game with.
I will also point out an exception if you're playing Skulls & Shackles: If the ship is anchored at a location you all start at that location. I missed this for quite a long time...
Thank you for the answers! I can see that my characters will have to be more careful about reading the location conditions for closing or be ready to buff each other's closing checks. Being forced to do (on average) 5 more encounters to empty the location deck is time my party does not have. They usually win on the last card of the blessings deck.
Another thing about starting locations: some locations have unwanted effects if you move there. Like the Temple says you have to discard a card. But if you start there, you haven't moved there, so you don't have to discard a card. We usually try to look at all the locations before we start to see if there are any like that where it would be good for the party if we put somebody there to start.
Chief Technical Officer
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I believe there was a thread discussing this with regards to Balazar in Wrath and that the official answer is that the summoned monsters would go back to the box. I personally would rather that be changed, but I understand that such a power could cause problems in a case where a unique henchman was summoned and ended up in a character's hand.
The rule is "After evading a summoned card or resolving the encounter with it, never put it anywhere other than back in the box unless the card that caused you to summon it instructs you otherwise."
Two questions for today!
1 - Is Bruthazmus a Goblin? The Approach to Thistletop scenario gives Goblin monsters an extra 1d4 and the Goblin Fortress also buffs them. The Bugbear monster has the Goblin trait, but Bruthazmus has the Bugbear trait. Also, Bruthazmus and the Goblin Raiders are henchmen, not monsters. In doubt, I gave him all the buffs, but Amiri still beat him bare handed. That girl is scary.
2 -
Before encountering Erylium, a character at your location must summon and encounter a Wrathful Sinspawn henchman. If undefeated, succeed at a ... check or move to a random other location.
Seoni encounters Erylium, Harsk summons and encounters the WS and loses. Does the "If undefeated..." apply to Harsk? Or does he just take some damage, the WS goes back in the box, and the "If undefeated..." applies to the outcome of the combat between Seoni and Erylium?
Extra question!
3 - Approach to Thistletop, last turn is Seoni's. She can beat the villain, but she won't be able to refill her hand to finish her turn. Does beating the villain end the game, or do we have to watch Seoni burn out in a tragic sacrifice? The alternative is to have Seoni intentionally lose which will also probably kill her. I'm leaving the game set up until I get some advice.
1. Yes, Bruthazmus should have the Goblin trait, there's an FAQ on that, I think.
2. Not sure about that.
3. Seoni doesn't have to reset her hand after the villain is defeated and has no place to go. The rule book spells out the steps which end with doing the when permanently closed bit on the location. Only if the location said something like discard the top card of your deck would you have to worry about defeating the villain and then dying.
Two questions for today!
1 - Is Bruthazmus a Goblin? The Approach to Thistletop scenario gives Goblin monsters an extra 1d4 and the Goblin Fortress also buffs them. The Bugbear monster has the Goblin trait, but Bruthazmus has the Bugbear trait. Also, Bruthazmus and the Goblin Raiders are henchmen, not monsters. In doubt, I gave him all the buffs, but Amiri still beat him bare handed. That girl is scary.
2 -
Before encountering Erylium, a character at your location must summon and encounter a Wrathful Sinspawn henchman. If undefeated, succeed at a ... check or move to a random other location.Seoni encounters Erylium, Harsk summons and encounters the WS and loses. Does the "If undefeated..." apply to Harsk? Or does he just take some damage, the WS goes back in the box, and the "If undefeated..." applies to the outcome of the combat between Seoni and Erylium?
Extra question!
3 - Approach to Thistletop, last turn is Seoni's. She can beat the villain, but she won't be able to refill her hand to finish her turn. Does beating the villain end the game, or do we have to watch Seoni burn out in a tragic sacrifice? The alternative is to have Seoni intentionally lose which will also probably kill her. I'm leaving the game set up until I get some advice.
2. The "If undefeated" text on the card itself is a separate paragraph, which means it is in no way related to the "summon and encounter a Wrathful Sinspawn" power (do try and preserve that sort of thing when you quote the card since it's important). The only person who moves is the person who encountered Erylium.
3. If you win the game you don't need to reset your hand (and therefore don't die).
There are a few things that still happen after you win though, including closing the location (so for instance after AD3 starts you'll remove the basic cards in that location from the box), resolving displayed cards (e.g. banishing Poison Cloud if a character without the arcane skill played it).
Closing the location in particular can still kill you if the "when closed" effect forces you to draw a card and you can't (only if your deck is already empty, not just lower than your hand size minus remaining cards). Closing the location can also cause you to lose a game that you've won if you discard cards from the blessings deck as a result.
The distinction is that these things are part of finishing off the encounter with the villain. The rest of the steps of your turn are skipped, including as I said resetting your hand.
Thanks! I will try to quote more precisely in the future.
But in the spirit of that precision, does it really matter if Bruthazmus has the Gobin trait for this scenario? Both the scenario card text for Approach to Thistletop and the Goblin Fortress location text only refer to Goblin 'monsters'. As henchmen, it would seem that Bruthazmus and the Goblin Raiders don't get these buffs. Really?
There are a few things that still happen after you win though, including ... resolving displayed cards (e.g. banishing Poison Cloud if a character without the arcane skill played it)....
Currently, this is untrue. When you win a game, displayed "until end of turn" spells and potions are NOT banished. See this thread:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2syh1?Banish-at-end-of-Turn-and-the-Villain#1Both the scenario card text for Approach to Thistletop and the Goblin Fortress location text only refer to Goblin 'monsters'. As henchmen, it would seem that Bruthazmus and the Goblin Raiders don't get these buffs. Really?
Look at the card. Bruthazmus may be a Henchman, bu he has also a sub-type Monster. ALL henchmen are either Monster or Barrier.
ALL henchmen are either Monster or Barrier.At least so far...
..tuh-duh-DUNN!!!
(Yeah, I can totally imagine a scenario with a Villain:
Golden Snitch
Type: Item
Traits:
Object, Magic
Check to Acquire: Dexterity/Acrobatics 12; Wisdom/Perception 14
If you fail to acquire this card, it deals 1d4 Combat damage to you; temporary closed locations count as open when this villain escapes.
You may reveal a card with the Bludgeoning trait to reduce the difficulty to acquire by 3.
If there are no other open locations, and this is the last card in the location deck, you automatically acquire it.)
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Chief Technical Officer
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Currently, this is untrue. When you win a game, displayed "until end of turn" spells and potions are NOT banished. See this thread:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2syh1?Banish-at-end-of-Turn-and-the-Villain#1
It's true that the current rules do not communicate the intent of the designers on that point yet, but it is absolutely the designers' intent that you resolve them as if the turn had ended (or as if whatever other condition that makes you resolve them has occurred).
This is the forum for the Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, where you play similar adventures to your RPG counterparts using cards.
Those other decks you're talking about are accessories for the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game.
It's true that the current rules do not communicate the intent of the designers on that point yet, but it is absolutely the designers' intent that you resolve them as if the turn had ended (or as if whatever other condition that makes you resolve them has occurred).Currently, this is untrue. When you win a game, displayed "until end of turn" spells and potions are NOT banished. See this thread:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2syh1?Banish-at-end-of-Turn-and-the-Villain#1
I've always thought so, I just remember you and/or Mike saying that when you judge if a card/rule is working, design intent goes out the window. So I've assumed that short of y'all introducing something game-breakingly powerful that displays until end of turn - another specific rule just for the corner case of someone keeping a spell or potion when they shouldn't is not worth the added complexity.
Harsk has (for example) Dex d12 (+2) Ranged: +2
I thought I understood the difference between 'die' and 'skill' in checks, but now that I see the phrase 'unmodified die' I'm not so sure. When the Light Crossbow said to add the Dexterity or Ranged die, am I adding d12, d12+2, or d12+4? It seemed obvious when I started playing that the 1d8 of the Light Crossbow would just stack on top of Ranged.
Similarly for Amiri, that a 1d8 sword would add to Melee. But if Strength or Melee die + 1d8 means just the raw d12 and not the +4, I have to start making a calculation of whether the additional die from the weapon is worth losing the +4. Is that right? It doesn't sound right.
Harsk has (for example) Dex d12 (+2) Ranged: +2
I thought I understood the difference between 'die' and 'skill' in checks, but now that I see the phrase 'unmodified die' I'm not so sure. When the Light Crossbow said to add the Dexterity or Ranged die, am I adding d12, d12+2, or d12+4? It seemed obvious when I started playing that the 1d8 of the Light Crossbow would just stack on top of Ranged.
Similarly for Amiri, that a 1d8 sword would add to Melee. But if Strength or Melee die + 1d8 means just the raw d12 and not the +4, I have to start making a calculation of whether the additional die from the weapon is worth losing the +4. Is that right? It doesn't sound right.
IMHO if I understood all well "Die" or "Unmodified die" is just the same (they added "Unmodified" for clarity).
In your Harsk example,
- if the rule says "add the Dexterity die" or "add the Dexterity unmodified die", it means 1d12
- if the rule says "add the Dexterity skill", it means 1d12+2
- if the rule says "add the Ranged skill", it means 1d12+4
that's pretty simple.
And if Vic as done a good proofwriting job, you should never see "add the Ranged die" because there is no such thing as a ranged die.
And yes, if you are unable (I mean non proficient) to use a weapon, you may end up doing less damage (or just a bit more) than with your bare hands. i.e. 1d8-4. So the -4 applies whatever the skill you use (Strength or Melee) and whatever the bonus you have or do not have.
Harsk has (for example) Dex d12 (+2) Ranged: +2
I thought I understood the difference between 'die' and 'skill' in checks, but now that I see the phrase 'unmodified die' I'm not so sure. When the Light Crossbow said to add the Dexterity or Ranged die, am I adding d12, d12+2, or d12+4? It seemed obvious when I started playing that the 1d8 of the Light Crossbow would just stack on top of Ranged.
Similarly for Amiri, that a 1d8 sword would add to Melee. But if Strength or Melee die + 1d8 means just the raw d12 and not the +4, I have to start making a calculation of whether the additional die from the weapon is worth losing the +4. Is that right? It doesn't sound right.
If I'm not mistaken, this is an old wording, that is now obsolete by current rules. Basically, there are some weapons and spells in the first RotR edition that will say "use your Dexterity/Melee/Arcane die", as opposed to 'unmodified die'. By current rules , all these cards should be read as "use your Dexterity/Melee/Arcane SKILL".
Also, by current rules, as Frencois noted, there is no distinction between 'die' and 'unmodified die'
Harsk has (for example) Dex d12 (+2) Ranged: +2
I thought I understood the difference between 'die' and 'skill' in checks, but now that I see the phrase 'unmodified die' I'm not so sure. When the Light Crossbow said to add the Dexterity or Ranged die, am I adding d12, d12+2, or d12+4? It seemed obvious when I started playing that the 1d8 of the Light Crossbow would just stack on top of Ranged.
Similarly for Amiri, that a 1d8 sword would add to Melee. But if Strength or Melee die + 1d8 means just the raw d12 and not the +4, I have to start making a calculation of whether the additional die from the weapon is worth losing the +4. Is that right? It doesn't sound right.
If I'm not mistaken, this is an old wording, that is now obsolete by current rules. Basically, there are some weapons and spells in the first RotR edition that will say "use your Dexterity/Melee/Arcane die", as opposed to 'unmodified die'. By current rules , all these cards should be read as "use your Dexterity/Melee/Arcane SKILL".
Also, by current rules, as Frencois noted, there is no distinction between 'die' and 'unmodified die'
Thank you. I am playing RotR but I have no idea which edition. I did try to look at the FAQ before posting.
And since no good deed should go unpunished, here are some new questions!
Merisiel has a power "You may evade your encounter."
The Guard Tower location says "At the start of your turn, summon and encounter a Bandit henchman."
Meri is at the Guard Tower, starts her turn, and says "I evade the Bandit." Does the bandit go into the location deck or back in the box?
Similarly, Meri is in the Warrens. The location text says "When you encounter a monster put a random monster from the box on top of another random open location deck." Meri explores, draws a monster and says "I evade the monster." Does a random monster get put out or not? 'Encounter' is both a verb and a noun, and Meri is stamping her foot saying "I didn't encounter the monster, I evaded the encounter."
Harsk, at another location (obviously), draws Skeleton Horde. Meri is at an open location, so she has to summon and encounter and Ancient Skeleton. Meri says "I evade the Ancient Skeleton." Can she? If she can, does the Ancient Skeleton go in the location deck or back in the box? I've been playing that she can evade and the monster goes back in the box.
Meri's playing strategy is to camp out at locations that have Dexterity/Acrobatics/Stealth/Disable checks to close. She explores, evading all monsters, taking what she can of the boons, and only fights the henchman or villain.
Merisiel has a power "You may evade your encounter."
The Guard Tower location says "At the start of your turn, summon and encounter a Bandit henchman."
Meri is at the Guard Tower, starts her turn, and says "I evade the Bandit." Does the bandit go into the location deck or back in the box?Similarly, Meri is in the Warrens. The location text says "When you encounter a monster put a random monster from the box on top of another random open location deck." Meri explores, draws a monster and says "I evade the monster." Does a random monster get put out or not? 'Encounter' is both a verb and a noun, and Meri is stamping her foot saying "I didn't encounter the monster, I evaded the encounter."
Harsk, at another location (obviously), draws Skeleton Horde. Meri is at an open location, so she has to summon and encounter and Ancient Skeleton. Meri says "I evade the Ancient Skeleton." Can she? If she can, does the Ancient Skeleton go in the location deck or back in the box? I've been playing that she can evade and the monster goes back in the box.
1. Summoned encounters always go back to the box unless the thing that summoned them says otherwise. She can sneak around the Guard Tower with no consequences.
2. You are still encountering cards you evade. The evasion step comes after the When You Encounter step. Evading it just means it is neither defeated or undefeated. So yes, a new monster gets put in.
3. She can evade and it will go back in the box. You'll only get tripped up if the barrier says that all summoned monsters must be defeated, since her evasion does not defeat her monster.
Merisiel has a power "You may evade your encounter."
The Guard Tower location says "At the start of your turn, summon and encounter a Bandit henchman."
Meri is at the Guard Tower, starts her turn, and says "I evade the Bandit." Does the bandit go into the location deck or back in the box?
Back to the box. Summoned cards never go anywhere except back to the box unless the card that summoned them says otherwise. That "says otherwise" will never happen in Rise of the Runelords.
Similarly, Meri is in the Warrens. The location text says "When you encounter a monster put a random monster from the box on top of another random open location deck." Meri explores, draws a monster and says "I evade the monster." Does a random monster get put out or not? 'Encounter' is both a verb and a noun, and Meri is stamping her foot saying "I didn't encounter the monster, I evaded the encounter."
You did encounter it, you just evaded it. The only reason you could even evade it is because you can evade things you encounter. Which means you must have encountered it.
Harsk, at another location (obviously), draws Skeleton Horde. Meri is at an open location, so she has to summon and encounter and Ancient Skeleton. Meri says "I evade the Ancient Skeleton." Can she? If she can, does the Ancient Skeleton go in the location deck or back in the box? I've been playing that she can evade and the monster goes back in the box.
Yes, she can. It goes back to the box. Some of the "mass summon" barriers will say that if tall the summoned monsters aren't defeated they barrier is undefeated. In that case, Merisiel can evade, but the barrier will be undefeated.
Meri's playing strategy is to camp out at locations that have Dexterity/Acrobatics/Stealth/Disable checks to close. She explores, evading all monsters, taking what she can of the boons, and only fights the henchman or villain.
Sounds fine.
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Meri's playing strategy is to camp out at locations that have Dexterity/Acrobatics/Stealth/Disable checks to close. She explores, evading all monsters, taking what she can of the boons, and only fights the henchman or villain.
The only downside to this strategy is that if Merisiel evades a monster drawn from a location deck, that monster shuffles back INTO that location deck, so you could easily keep encountering the same monster over and over, wasting precious explores. If you find that you lose more resources fighting than you do re-encountering, then you have a winning strategy!
Personally, I only evade when either A) there's no gain to encountering the card (I count "getting a card out of the location deck" as a gain, so this would be things like the Bandit at the Guard Tower, etc) or 2) I am in a poor position to handle the encounter (a monster or barrier than I'm ill-equipped to defeat, or a boon that someone reallyreallyreally wants but which Merisiel would have a poor chance to acquire).
Merisiel at the General Store is super fun.
Similarly, Meri is in the Warrens. The location text says "When you encounter a monster put a random monster from the box on top of another random open location deck." Meri explores, draws a monster and says "I evade the monster." Does a random monster get put out or not? 'Encounter' is both a verb and a noun, and Meri is stamping her foot saying "I didn't encounter the monster, I evaded the encounter."You did encounter it, you just evaded it. The only reason you could even evade it is because you can evade things you encounter. Which means you must have encountered it.
If I understand you correctly (and using programming style syntax)
evade( Encounter) OR have( Encounter)
is wrong.
Encounter(
Evade(optional)
...
)
is right.
I suppose this would be clearer if Meri's card said "If you encounter a monster you may evade it." But it doesn't.
BTW, I've never doubted that Meri would have to deal with before encounter conditions. It would seem that you are saying she also has to deal with after encounter effects, even if she evaded.
The rules are not very clear in RotR. They are much clearer in the latest version, WotR. The WotR rulebook, being the latest, is actually retro-active and governs RotR, so you should look at those rules, which you can find here.
"Before the encounter" and "After the encounter" have been replaced by "Before you act" and "After you act" and should be read as such.
The steps of an encounter are:
Apply Any Effects That Happen When You Encounter A Card
Apply Any Evasion Effects
Apply Any Effects That Happen Before You Act
Attempt The Check
Attempt The Next Check, If Needed
Apply Any Effects That Happen After You Act
Resolve The Encounter
Step one always happens. This is where "When you encounter" effects occur. So when Meri encounters a blessing at the Shrine of Lamashtu, she is dealt 2 damage; she doesn't have a chance to evade before that.
If you evade at step two, nothing else happens. So "Before the encounter" (really "Before you act") and "After the encounter" (really "After you act") effects don't apply if you evaded the encounter.Aside: Note Merisiel can evade any encounter, not just monsters. Some groups have Meri evade valuable boons others have a better shot at acquiring. EDIT: Ninja'd on that last point.