Ultimate Equipment (Second Printing)


Pathfinder Society

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Liberty's Edge 5/5

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Starfinder Superscriber

But, honestly, let's think about it from the point of view of a random PFS GM. They probably don't check the errata obsessively, and don't follow the forums. Chances are, they'll do exactly that, not because they don't like the changes, but just because they don't know. A player is less likely to notice, unless she use herolab and gets updates. Most GMs, in order to cope, have to assume that the players know what they're doing.

As such, in reality, it'll probably take at least a year for these changes to percolate through 90% of the PFS player base. Even after that there will be some people doing it wrong who have no idea they're doing it wrong; after all, they're following what the rulebookk they have says.

The Exchange 5/5

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rknop wrote:

But, honestly, let's think about it from the point of view of a random PFS GM. They probably don't check the errata obsessively, and don't follow the forums. Chances are, they'll do exactly that, not because they don't like the changes, but just because they don't know. A player is less likely to notice, unless she use herolab and gets updates. Most GMs, in order to cope, have to assume that the players know what they're doing.

As such, in reality, it'll probably take at least a year for these changes to percolate through 90% of the PFS player base. Even after that there will be some people doing it wrong who have no idea they're doing it wrong; after all, they're following what the rulebookk they have says.

Heck, I still have people "correct" me about rules that haven't been in place sense 3.5 days (rules that changed for PFS).

Liberty's Edge 5/5

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Yup. As Chris said, mistakes will happen. And we don't expect folks to be about policing things. But you can't actively ignore things you know about either.

1/5 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Speaking only as someone with the horrific experience of a never ending torrent of faqratta from a different campaign...

...it leads to 'burnout' trying to keep up with the insanity. Where's BuSab when you need them?

Or, how a GM I know and respect (with a PFS number in the really low numbers) made a call about a particular item that was introduced in the APG not being available in Classic, and after the scenario in question we looked it up and we sorted it out.

We both learned something from that.

In the other campaign, the GM would have been censured for 'not following the rules' and possibly faced punitive measures... for volunteering and making a 'simple mistake' of 'not obsessing and pedantically dissecting every single rule on the books....'

Shadow Lodge

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Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Andrew Christian wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:
Then please don't GM games in Classic mode in Pathfinder Society. It simply isn't fair that the game works one way at your table, and other ways at everybody else's. People make mistakes, sure, but it isn't right for you to decide to ignore errata deliberately.
Not only is it not right. It's against the rules of the campaign.

Sure. But let's put it another way.

It is contradictory to say that players must own sources so that they can provide the written text on demand, because GMs can't be expected to know all the rules, and also say that GMs are expected to know all the rules well enough to know when the written text is wrong.

I have no problem with any of the errata, but there's a lot here that will get missed consistently, due to the written text in the book no longer being reliable.

Dark Archive 5/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
pH unbalanced wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:
Then please don't GM games in Classic mode in Pathfinder Society. It simply isn't fair that the game works one way at your table, and other ways at everybody else's. People make mistakes, sure, but it isn't right for you to decide to ignore errata deliberately.
Not only is it not right. It's against the rules of the campaign.

Sure. But let's put it another way.

It is contradictory to say that players must own sources so that they can provide the written text on demand, because GMs can't be expected to know all the rules, and also say that GMs are expected to know all the rules well enough to know when the written text is wrong.

I have no problem with any of the errata, but there's a lot here that will get missed consistently, due to the written text in the book no longer being reliable.

It's the player's job to make sure additional resources are available for review, not the GM. As a GM it takes all of a couple minutes to know that an errata was printed. It is the player's job to make sure they bring the book and any errata to the book. If the GM is unfamiliar with a source, the GM can ask for the player to present the rules (the latest errata if it exists) for them. If they cannot, it's disallowed. If they can, the GM familiarizes themselves with it right then.

This is the same with all additional resources since additional resources started. It's really nothing new, except there are more options to pick from and (one) more document to check. GMs may just have to ask more often than they did before. There's nothing wrong with that.

Grand Lodge 4/5 *** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

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Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


Where's BuSab when you need them?

+1 for knowing what BuSab is.

1/5 5/5

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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Jared Thaler wrote:
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


Where's BuSab when you need them?
+1 for knowing what BuSab is.

+1 for knowing what BuSab's role in this particular context would be.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

So if you're using a physical book, also bring a printing of the errata document for that book. That's what it's there for.

---

Thinking about it, I think I like the design of the buffering cap a lot more than that of the jingasa. Negating crits entirely gets into the realm of "everything bounces off" characters that can become boring to GM for - if nothing ever seems to stick to them, how is it even exciting anymore?

The buffering cap provides a solid defense against sudden death by crit, but doesn't take away the monster's chance to do something impressive (including applying some cool rider effect).

That's not to say I like the jingasa nerf, but I'll live with it.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5

Rambone wrote:
As a DM I'm not going to remember, nor try to memorize all these changes in multiple books. If a PC uses an item and shows me the book, I'm going by what the book says. Sorry.

Hence why I don't bother having copies of the books to hand, and just keep Archives of Nethys at the ready. Things change so frequently and I can always double check online and know they are up to date.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

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pH unbalanced wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:
Then please don't GM games in Classic mode in Pathfinder Society. It simply isn't fair that the game works one way at your table, and other ways at everybody else's. People make mistakes, sure, but it isn't right for you to decide to ignore errata deliberately.
Not only is it not right. It's against the rules of the campaign.

Sure. But let's put it another way.

It is contradictory to say that players must own sources so that they can provide the written text on demand, because GMs can't be expected to know all the rules, and also say that GMs are expected to know all the rules well enough to know when the written text is wrong.

I have no problem with any of the errata, but there's a lot here that will get missed consistently, due to the written text in the book no longer being reliable.

I'm not concerned about when things get legitimately missed. It's when things are purposely missed that I have a problem.

Perhaps the date of latest errata and link to the document could be included in the additional resources document if it isn't already.

Liberty's Edge

Shifty wrote:
Hence why I don't bother having copies of the books to hand, and just keep Archives of Nethys at the ready. Things change so frequently and I can always double check online and know they are up to date.

Nethys is about three months out of date.

The only way to always be 'up to date' is to use the latest PDFs.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Starfinder Superscriber
Lau Bannenberg wrote:

So if you're using a physical book, also bring a printing of the errata document for that book. That's what it's there for.

Does the PFS Guide say that?

If not, then it's not reasonable to expect players to know that thye have to do that.

Even if it is in there, I am not sure it's reasonable to expect players to know that. The PFS guide is pretty long, and nobody's going to remember everything that's in there. A lot of people are under the impression that this is a game that we play to have fun, and that they ought to be able to show up to a game day and have that fun even if they don't obsessively keep up up with stuff that gets posted over on a forum or a web page somewhere.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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Word about the jingassa will spread around rather quickly.

Really not going to remember to charge someone the extra 2 copper for the dwarven ale.

Liberty's Edge 4/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.
BigNorseWolf wrote:

Word about the jingassa will spread around rather quickly.

Really not going to remember to charge someone the extra 2 copper for the dwarven ale.

The Little Sisters of Impoverished Adventurers thank you for your generosity.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 *

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
CBDunkerson wrote:

Nethys is about three months out of date.

The only way to always be 'up to date' is to use the latest PDFs.

But how do you know unless you have some sort of document that tells you what the latest printing of every book is that you can cross-reference against the date the PDF was downloaded?

Now we have to add yet one more thing to cross-reference when looking at a PC?

Liberty's Edge

Michael Hallet wrote:
CBDunkerson wrote:

Nethys is about three months out of date.

The only way to always be 'up to date' is to use the latest PDFs.

But how do you know unless you have some sort of document that tells you what the latest printing of every book is that you can cross-reference against the date the PDF was downloaded?

Some sort of document

Sovereign Court 3/5 **

Pathfinder Card Game, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Michael Hallet wrote:
CBDunkerson wrote:

Nethys is about three months out of date.

The only way to always be 'up to date' is to use the latest PDFs.

But how do you know unless you have some sort of document that tells you what the latest printing of every book is that you can cross-reference against the date the PDF was downloaded?

Now we have to add yet one more thing to cross-reference when looking at a PC?

You don't need the download date. The PDF tells you what printing it is on the credit page.


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I get an email whenever they release errata for books I have a PDF of.

Grand Lodge 4/5 *** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

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I think the whole point of concern is people with physical books guys. The PDF you can just redownload the latest. You don't get a warning when the physical book you bought from the FLGS gets an errata.

I would love to see a better changelog system. But that is a separate issue

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/5 **

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Anybody who expects most players to bring printed copies of all errata for all their hardcovers either has a VERY different player base than I do or is seriously deluding themself.

I spend far too much time on these forums and have at least looked at most errata but I still miss LOTS of things. Oh, I'll catch Jingassa but I'll miss a lot more.

With all the errata and FAQs the only practical way to keep up to date for most people is to use one of the online sites. Which are not PFS legal.

In practice its no huge deal. Sone errata makes it into play quickly, some slowly, some almost never. And we all ignore the rules on what is acceptable for providing rules text at the table. The rules are now just too far out of sync with reality to be actually followed.

One of the things thst I once really liked about Pathfibder is that it didn't have too much errata. Unlike 4th edition my books were actually useful. Unfortunately, those days are long gone.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 *

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
KingOfAnything wrote:
Michael Hallet wrote:
CBDunkerson wrote:

Nethys is about three months out of date.

The only way to always be 'up to date' is to use the latest PDFs.

But how do you know unless you have some sort of document that tells you what the latest printing of every book is that you can cross-reference against the date the PDF was downloaded?

Now we have to add yet one more thing to cross-reference when looking at a PC?

You don't need the download date. The PDF tells you what printing it is on the credit page.

If the player brings the PDF on a device, sure, but what if they only print out the pages they need for a particular PC from their PDF. Then they won't have the cover page with them.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/5 **

Jared Thaler wrote:

The PDF you can just redownload the latest. You don't get a warning when the physical book you bought from the FLGS gets an errata.

Its a moderate amount of hassle to download the new pdfs and get them into the right places on my computer and tablet. It generally takes me quite awhile to get around to it.

And I am 100% sure that I do a better job of it than some of my local players

1/5 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Paul Jackson wrote:
Jared Thaler wrote:

The PDF you can just redownload the latest. You don't get a warning when the physical book you bought from the FLGS gets an errata.

Its a moderate amount of hassle to download the new pdfs and get them into the right places on my computer and tablet. It generally takes me quite awhile to get around to it.

And I am 100% sure that I do a better job of it than some of my local players

I have ten pages of faqratta from ACG that makes my ACG not fit in my backpack right because I shoved it at the front of the book so as not to get lost with my other paperwork.

Unfortunately, there's no provision to 'return/replace' hardcopy when a new edition comes out.

Edit: Thinking about it, though, that might lessen the 'sting' some, and provide caution to rampant correction if Paizo made a 'Full Exchange' guarantee for hardcovers every time they released a new edition...

It'd be the ideal *Customer Service* situation, though financially it could put a bite on things...

Lantern Lodge 5/5

I think I'm going to buy a jingasa on a few of my characters now that it isn't something everyone else has.

1/5 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I think I'll be investing in Hats of Disguise because they are awesome.

Watches around warily for a nerfbat

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/5 **

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


I think I'll be investing in Hats of Disguise because they are awesome.

Watches around warily for a nerfbat

The Greater Hat Of Disguise is even more awesone. And from a sufficiently obscure source that it will never get errata'd

5/5 5/55/55/5

Paul Jackson wrote:
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


I think I'll be investing in Hats of Disguise because they are awesome.

Watches around warily for a nerfbat

The Greater Hat Of Disguise is even more awesone. And from a sufficiently obscure source that it will never get errata'd

Archives of nethys has it listed as not PFS legal. (either because of the source or its +2 stat bonus on the cheap) Its on a chronicle sheet though.

Lantern Lodge 3/5

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Jeff Hazuka wrote:
I think I'm going to buy a jingasa on a few of my characters now that it isn't something everyone else has.

We don't call those Jingasa's anymore. They are called Seriously Overpriced Rings of Protection +1 now. :p

Community & Digital Content Director

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Removed a couple unhelpful posts.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/5 **

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Paul Jackson wrote:
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


I think I'll be investing in Hats of Disguise because they are awesome.

Watches around warily for a nerfbat

The Greater Hat Of Disguise is even more awesone. And from a sufficiently obscure source that it will never get errata'd

Archives of nethys has it listed as not PFS legal. (either because of the source or its +2 stat bonus on the cheap) Its on a chronicle sheet though.

Its on the chronicle sheet. That makes it legal enough for me :-).

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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captain yesterday wrote:
I get an email whenever they release errata for books I have a PDF of.

Also, when you look at your My Downloads page, you can see the date that you last downloaded a file as well as the date that the file was last updated. If the latter is more recent than the former, your last downloaded version is out of date.

Community & Digital Content Director

Removed a post and the replies to it. It's fine to disagree with a ruling, but personal insults are not OK.

The Exchange 5/5

Chris Lambertz wrote:
Removed a post and the replies to it. It's fine to disagree with a ruling, but personal insults are not OK.

Sorry Chris. I'll try not to respond in the future. And thank you for all your hard work.

The Exchange

Can we ask what the reasoning was behind some of these changes? They seem fairly arbitrary given how long they've been established as they were. And given the fairly dramatic power creep of more recent books im not sure I understand the logic of downgrading the power level of older items.

So, any answer for what these changes were made?

The Exchange 5/5

Rushley son of Halum wrote:

Can we ask what the reasoning was behind some of these changes? They seem fairly arbitrary given how long they've been established as they were. And given the fairly dramatic power creep of more recent books im not sure I understand the logic of downgrading the power level of older items.

So, any answer for what these changes were made?

As these changes were not PFS changes, perhaps a better place to ask this question would be on the Rules board - or just over in the Product board.

We're just stuck with the rules changes over here - and how to fit them into the Campaign.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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Rushley son of Halum wrote:

So, any answer for what these changes were made?

The torch and pitchfork mob is congregating here

I recommend the pitchfork over the torch. Nothing wrong with being an angry peasant, but if you're going to be an angry peasant, be sure you have a point, not a flame war.

PFS is dealing with these changes more than any individual player, and I would like to thank them for going MUCH further than they usually do for trying to make the transition as painless as it can be. I'm pretty sure this isn't what they want to be dealing with while packing for paizocon.

For an unarmed character, that brawling enchant is a pretty bad root canal. In a PBP, at least one character is retooling to use a weapon because without that enchant, a brawler has no reason to.. well. brawl. You could probably make a good case for switching your focus from unarmed to a weapon.

If the character is useless then they're useless. I know i was annoyed by a mystic theurge getting killed by changes in the rules mid stream, but there's always another character even if they won't let you rebuild.

The Exchange

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I'm asking here because this is a thread made by a developer. Making new threads with these questions rarely gets a response, even rarer that you'd get a response with an actual answer.

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