Ultimate Equipment (Second Printing)


Pathfinder Society

251 to 300 of 606 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | next > last >>
Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento aka FLite

Thomas Hutchins wrote:

laugh when I see these posts about this. "Oh the jingasa was too good for head, crowded out all other options" "If everyone is getting it then it should be removed"

Yet they have no problem with Magic Belts, magic headbands, magic weapons, magic armor, rinds of deflections, cloak of resist and AoNA. You know, the stuff that probably 80% of people take on all their characters. Yup, need to remove the jingasa cause it was a staple, but these other things, well their needed, can't remove those from the game.

There is a whole chapter in unchained on removing those items from the game.

4/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Jared Thaler wrote:
Thomas Hutchins wrote:

laugh when I see these posts about this. "Oh the jingasa was too good for head, crowded out all other options" "If everyone is getting it then it should be removed"

Yet they have no problem with Magic Belts, magic headbands, magic weapons, magic armor, rinds of deflections, cloak of resist and AoNA. You know, the stuff that probably 80% of people take on all their characters. Yup, need to remove the jingasa cause it was a staple, but these other things, well their needed, can't remove those from the game.
There is a whole chapter in unchained on removing those items from the game.

Guess how much of that chapter is legal for organized play.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Thomas Hutchins wrote:
Yet they have no problem with Magic Belts, magic headbands, magic weapons, magic armor, rinds of deflections, cloak of resist and AoNA. You know, the stuff that probably 80% of people take on all their characters. Yup, need to remove the jingasa cause it was a staple, but these other things, well their needed, can't remove those from the game.

The difference is (and I don't have the time or inclination to go find the commentary where this was first stated back in old 3.0 days by developers long passed Pathfinder) is that the game is designed around an equipment progression that again was designed to rely on the "big six". This is a design decision that I often, in our home area, moan about, because it makes "low magic games" exceedingly difficult to power for. Yes, the game "requires" many of these items (I use the term "require" loosely for all the reasons I've already said).

But...these UA and other items are not these items. They are stand alone additions to this system. So lumping every other new additional option into the same category as the "big six" is missing the point entirely. Options are supposed to provide options, or things that tempt you from the big six, or one-shot items appropriate for home campaigns which nobody in their right mind would buy for PFS, or things that are just fun. This is the problem I have with this argument, it's a mixing of apples and oranges. Not everything should fall into the category of "must have", with the exception of the items which the game was designed around (in all the unfortunateness that is).

Silver Crusade

Rei wrote:

Phew, for a moment there I was super scared for that Ring of Inner Fortitude I just bought for my level 14 Seeker. Thankfully, the change isn't meaningful for him.

The jingasa suddenly went from one of the most OP items in the game to almost obsolete. That's... quite a change. Also, I will not rue the loss of the Gloves of Scenario Breaking.

But, you still have the scenario breaking One-Way Window which is allowed INFINITE usage!

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Jared Thaler wrote:
DM Livgin wrote:
Just bought the Jingasa on a martial druid just for the luck bonus to AC/CMD (no fates favored, will never negate a crit while wildshaped). Sad to see the luck bonus option disappear.
Isn't legal for a druid. It is a metal helmet, and they are forbidden to wear metal armor. (Okay, it is an arguable point, whether that means just full armor suits, but it always seemed to me to be questionable enough that I have never bought one for a druid.)

Historically, jingasa were made of a variety of materials, including wood. The material used had something to do with your social status or profession if I recall.

3/5 Venture-Agent, Canada—Alberta—Grand Prairie aka DM Livgin

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Jared Thaler wrote:
DM Livgin wrote:
Just bought the Jingasa on a martial druid just for the luck bonus to AC/CMD (no fates favored, will never negate a crit while wildshaped). Sad to see the luck bonus option disappear.
Isn't legal for a druid. It is a metal helmet, and they are forbidden to wear metal armor. (Okay, it is an arguable point, whether that means just full armor suits, but it always seemed to me to be questionable enough that I have never bought one for a druid.)

I acknowledge your comment and would argue it in a different conversation in a different forum.

Silver Crusade 5/5 ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

wakedown wrote:

I've leveled up over 200 levels of PCs and have avoided the temptation of a jingasa, so will also agree it wasn't mandatory (some of this being Core, so clearly not mandatory).

The change to the jingasa does have me wondering what change may be in store for Fate's Favored when the eventual Ultimate Campaign 2nd printing comes around (which I'd guess is soon-ish?).

I would not be so sure about that one, it is a very GM centric book and the PDF was included in the recent humble bundle (honest increasing the luck bonus to attack and damage rolls would likely be fine).

Shadow Lodge 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

I'd accept bets against me, but with the release of Celestial Healing, I'd worry more about the future of Infernal Healing than anything. I think it's a precursor of things to come.

Dark Archive 5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

4 people marked this as a favorite.

It is depressing that evil often gets some of the best toys. I have only one set of characters that use infernal healing.

"Miss Zarta assured me these wands are perfectly safe!"

The Exchange

4 people marked this as a favorite.

I hear cure spells take 9 less rounds to get their full benefit and don't have a round casting time.

Grand Lodge 3/5

John, is there any chance of a ruling on retraining Fate's Favored along with selling back your old Jingasa?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Sure would have been nice if the Jingasa was changed to "once/day when subjected to a critical hit/sneak attack, the attacker must reroll the attack and abide by the results of the second roll" instead of "LoL once ever for 5kgp ROTFL sucker!!"

PFS players have multiple ways to get a 1/session reroll for their characters, not so much when it comes for ways to force the GM to reroll attacks against their characters.

Grand Lodge 4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
MisterSlanky wrote:
Jeff Merola wrote:
I know you're being sarcastic, but Celestial Healing isn't even remotely "something new" it's just "something badly made."
What you call badly made, I call a deliberate design change that wouldn't surprise me if/when it shows up in the next printing of infernal healing.

It can be both, you know. And removing Infernal Healing (or changing it to match Celestial Healing) won't make people use Celestial Healing. They'll just move back to wands of CLW (or even potions of CLW, which are more cost efficient than a Wand of Celestial Healing).


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Fate's Favored trait is still awesome with the lucky horseshoe for luck bonus to saving throws, even if it doesn't help as much with AC with the jingasa nerf.

Silver Crusade 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh aka Terminalmancer

Celestial Healing was, if I recall, originally a celestial copy of Infernal Healing and that was changed during development. I wouldn't blame the original author for it.

Silver Crusade 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh aka Terminalmancer

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm not upset at the idea of nerfing some of these items. I am, however, disappointed at how strongly many of them were nerfed. A lot of other healthy games of many different types let too-powerful options stick around as only moderately-powerful options, and it's a good model. I don't know why Paizo doesn't do that. But oh well. That's not the first time it's happened and probably not the last.

I have one character out of 17 that was affected--I'm not, I guess, much for mandatory accessories. That one guy with the Jingasa, though, is going to be looking for a better way to stay alive! Might be buffering time.

Liberty's Edge Venture-Agent, Online

CBDunkerson wrote:
Actually, it is better than CLW starting at 1st... for people who can use it, but not CLW.

I'd rather have a bag of potions of cure light wounds in that case:

750 gp = 1 wand of celestial healing = 50 hp
750 gp = 15 potions of cure light wounds = 15d8+15 hp (average 82.5)

Even if you possibly lose a few points here or there to overcap, the potions will probably heal more.

Paizo Employee 5/5 Pathfinder Society Lead Developer

9 people marked this as a favorite.

Hey folks, I need to work on next week's blog first, but then I'm going to have one of our website admins update the original post with a few additional post-errata considerations; they're easier to find there rather than buried in this thread.

Likely Updates: Retraining the Fortune's Favored trait, inspecting if there's a clean and fair way to let brawling armor enthusiasts to shuffle around some wealth to buy back their armor, and addressing the ring of revelation

For those concerned about the change to the courageous weapon enchantment: Not to worry—we addressed this when the FAQ happened.

Things we're not examining as part of this recent errata: The ring of seven lovely colors and infernal healing

EDIT: Ah yes, and investigating whether a jingasa explodes into tiny pieces when it saves someone's life or whether it can be sold back.

5/5

For those complaining or insistent that your characters are unplayable/have been nerfed due to these changes, consider perhaps it's better to concentrate on what your character can do rather than on what he has.

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

John Compton wrote:

Hey folks, I need to work on next week's blog first, but then I'm going to have one of our website admins update the original post with a few additional post-errata considerations; they're easier to find there rather than buried in this thread.

Likely Updates: Retraining the Fortune's Favored trait, inspecting if there's a clean and fair way to let brawling armor enthusiasts to shuffle around some wealth to buy back their armor, and addressing the ring of revelation

And the scorpion whip he asks hopefully?

The Exchange

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Grizst the Mad wrote:
For those complaining or insistent that your characters are unplayable/have been nerfed due to these changes, consider perhaps it's better to concentrate on what your character can do rather than on what he has.

You can only say this because this was an equipment book. Concentrating on what your character can do is useless when they come for the class features and races just like previously and will be doing for the next books.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Grizst the Mad wrote:
For those complaining or insistent that your characters are unplayable/have been nerfed due to these changes, consider perhaps it's better to concentrate on what your character can do rather than on what he has.

And what do we do when what our character can do is nerfed, as with maneuver master and sound striker?

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
John Compton wrote:
EDIT: Ah yes, and investigating whether a jingasa explodes into tiny pieces when it saves someone's life or whether it can be sold back.

Both?


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
TOZ wrote:
Grizst the Mad wrote:
For those complaining or insistent that your characters are unplayable/have been nerfed due to these changes, consider perhaps it's better to concentrate on what your character can do rather than on what he has.
And what do we do when what our character can do is nerfed, as with maneuver master and sound striker?

One last suicide mission, maybe two days before they retire.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

6 people marked this as a favorite.
Grizst the Mad wrote:
For those complaining or insistent that your characters are unplayable/have been nerfed due to these changes, consider perhaps it's better to concentrate on what your character can do rather than on what he has.

Welcome to the wonderful world of being a martial.

Skills are vastly inferior to magic for overcoming obstacles. +27 acrobatics? Who cares. You still can't get over difficult terrain. + 20 heal? Guesse what, a potion in 6 seconds is more useful than you are. Got +30 to jump? hope the wizard is flying on a hoverboard, because you can't get any higher.

Magic items are THE way that non casters solve their problems. When you hurt them, you hurt martials.

Scarab Sages 5/5

ok, I've read all the thread to this point.

Mistmail write-up changed. But it appears that we will NOT be able to sell it back at full price? am I correct?

Paizo Employee 5/5 Pathfinder Society Lead Developer

Katisha wrote:

ok, I've read all the thread to this point.

Mistmail write-up changed. But it appears that we will NOT be able to sell it back at full price? am I correct?

If that's something that should be considered as well, I can add that to my update list for later today.

5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Tampere aka Rei

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Prethen wrote:
Rei wrote:

Phew, for a moment there I was super scared for that Ring of Inner Fortitude I just bought for my level 14 Seeker. Thankfully, the change isn't meaningful for him.

The jingasa suddenly went from one of the most OP items in the game to almost obsolete. That's... quite a change. Also, I will not rue the loss of the Gloves of Scenario Breaking.

But, you still have the scenario breaking One-Way Window which is allowed INFINITE usage!

Firstly, please breathe.

I didn't know of that item prior to this thread. I was just quoting a nickname the gloves got in our area.

3/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Prethen wrote:
Rei wrote:

Phew, for a moment there I was super scared for that Ring of Inner Fortitude I just bought for my level 14 Seeker. Thankfully, the change isn't meaningful for him.

The jingasa suddenly went from one of the most OP items in the game to almost obsolete. That's... quite a change. Also, I will not rue the loss of the Gloves of Scenario Breaking.

But, you still have the scenario breaking One-Way Window which is allowed INFINITE usage!

Some of us *like* that item, and it costs significantly more than the gloves to account for it's ability.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Or maybe don't say anything about it. If no one mentions it, do they know it's a problem. :-)

Scarab Sages 5/5

John Compton wrote:
Katisha wrote:

ok, I've read all the thread to this point.

Mistmail write-up changed. But it appears that we will NOT be able to sell it back at full price? am I correct?

If that's something that should be considered as well, I can add that to my update list for later today.

please do.

I can say that I have Mistmail on a number (more than 4) of my PCs - most of whom have picked up other magic items to compensate for not wearing armor while it is active (all day before, but now 3 minutes - it effectively went from "always on unless fire bombed" to "standard action to activate one time per day"). It actually means that I have PCs that have picked up wands of mage armor, and/or a Pearl of Power because they had the Mistmail "on" most of the time... Having to sell the "extra" items for half price will hurt, replacing the Mistmail (which can't be improved past +1 (iron) chain shirt) is just... icing on the cake.

It does sort of hurt that I just had one PC sell off Darkleaf Cloth Leather Lamellar to buy Mistmail... just to have it change errata... and he has a Dex of 20, which is above the Max Dex for the Mistmail when it's not mist.... so now he get's to sell off the Mistmail to buy the Darkleaf Cloth back, then play to enchant it...

Community Manager

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Removed a lot of back-and-forth, off-topic, and unhelpful posts. Please be civil folks, and feedback is more helpful when it's more than "this sucks" or "this is dumb."


BigNorseWolf wrote:

Fortification is just bad. For the price just increasing the +s will prevent more hits AND crits.

It has a niche. My barbarian with an ac of 14 uses it. His AC is so low that adding to it makes no sense at all. I can add a +6 to His AC and the enemy will still hit him on a 2. For damage mitigation he has DR 7/- and that works great for survival vs multi-attacking enemies. However, large spikes in damage can do him in, so I use fortification to prevent those kinds of things.

3/5

5 people marked this as a favorite.

Ok, I'll give this a second shot.

I'm disappointed.

When Paizo nerfs the items that do something interesting instead of just giving +X to some stat, it seems to reinforce the idea that those are the only kinds of items it's wise for us to buy. Because if there's an item that does something cool other than buff a stat, it seemingly tends to get nerfed to the point that it's no longer an interesting / useful item, or it's much too expensive for the benefit it offers.

Another slightly related piece of feedback: When admins delete posts from threads, please leave the post in their post history so that they can revisit and revise posts that may infringe some rule or other. I didn't particularly like that I had to retype my post from scratch.

5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
The Fourth Horseman wrote:
Prethen wrote:
Rei wrote:

Phew, for a moment there I was super scared for that Ring of Inner Fortitude I just bought for my level 14 Seeker. Thankfully, the change isn't meaningful for him.

The jingasa suddenly went from one of the most OP items in the game to almost obsolete. That's... quite a change. Also, I will not rue the loss of the Gloves of Scenario Breaking.

But, you still have the scenario breaking One-Way Window which is allowed INFINITE usage!
Some of us *like* that item, and it costs significantly more than the gloves to account for it's ability.

It is also not especially scenario breaking but then neither were the gloves, I find a lot of GM's simply ignore the fact that it is relatively easy to hear people sitting outside your door using these things, probably discussing amongst themselves what to do and starting to prebuff.

Overall there too often seems to be a very video game mentality where opponents simply sit in their rooms waiting for PC's to barge in regardless of what noise has been coming from just behind the door.

251 to 300 of 606 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Organized Play / Pathfinder Society / Ultimate Equipment (Second Printing) All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.