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The Four Horsemen and Rogue Genius are proud to present the Talented Bestiary Kickstarter! Simplified creature creation and 200 plus new monsters!
The Four Horsemen and Rogue Genius Games are proud to present the Talented Bestiary! After years of hard work, we’ve created a supplementary system for the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game that allows anyone to quickly and easily create balanced monsters from the ground up! While rigorously play-testing the system, we’ve produced hundreds of new monsters inspired by all the Bestiary classics and are excited to share both the system and our creations with our fans!
The book and 230 monsters are already written and nearly ready to publish, but we want to see this project given the finishing touches it deserves. That means paying for beautiful original artwork, careful editing, and expanded content galore. We can’t do that without your help!
If you'd like some idea what this book'll be like when it's done, we have a Preview, with the basics of the system and six useable monsters! And it's Pay-What-You-Want! (Even if what you want is $0!)
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Already pledged:-) I'm a proud owner of many Rogue Genius products and have been nothing but thrilled with the Player Companion lines incentives Owen took over. Happy to support this as well :-)
Thank you for your support!
I'll be checking in here regularly to answer any questions people might have about the book or kickstarter! Likewise, feel free to private message me directly. Although my amazing wife just had our first child (a boy!) yesterday, so I apologize if I am ever slow to respond. =)
This is a fantastic product. I am so excited for it to come out.
Armageddon Tarrasque? As if we needed something THAT devastating O_O
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For when a player gets all uppity.
pledged for the early bird pdf! not many left already lol
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Armageddon Tarrasque? As if we needed something THAT devastating O_O
The awesome thing isn;t that we made this. It's that the system CAN make this.
Don;t need an armageddon tarrasque? Great, glad to hear it. :) But if your game DOES need one, or a similarly-horrifying kraken, ancient red dragon, colossal undead, demon lords, gelatinous city block, or whatever, this book will let you put it together. Fast and easy.
Sadly, I didn't spot this early enough to get an Early Bird pledge. Ah, well.
I promise it'll be worth full price!
Armageddon Tarrasque? As if we needed something THAT devastating O_O
Just as Owen said! The monsters are a "bonus" that came from extensively playtesting the system. We really put it through its paces, so we could find any holes. That resulted in hundred of monsters, adding to the book's value and giving examples of what the system can accomplish.
The armageddon tarrasque specifically got to be the biggest scariest thing in the book (at Colossal-size CR 34), fitting with the tarrasque's tradition. The core tarrasque is no slouch but there are now lots of nastier things statted out. This one was designed by the God of Devils to act as a dead man's switch, tearing through hell, heaven, and everything between.
GM Rednall,
The system is hard to stump, but not impossible. You can certainly make any monster, but might not find the perfect ability to give it. Like trying to find the best feat or archetype for a PC concept. What we are hoping is that if the Kickstarter is really successful, I can keep adding new bestiaries and other sources to the system, with each one exponentially increasing the potential creatures you can build.
Armageddon Tarrasque? As if we needed something THAT devastating O_OThe awesome thing isn;t that we made this. It's that the system CAN make this.
Don;t need an armageddon tarrasque? Great, glad to hear it. :) But if your game DOES need one, or a similarly-horrifying kraken, ancient red dragon, colossal undead, demon lords, gelatinous city block, or whatever, this book will let you put it together. Fast and easy.
Just as Owen said! The monsters are a "bonus" that came from extensively playtesting the system. We really put it through its paces, so we could find any holes. That resulted in hundred of monsters, adding to the book's value and giving examples of what the system can accomplish.
The armageddon tarrasque specifically got to be the biggest scariest thing in the book (at Colossal-size CR 34), fitting with the tarrasque's tradition. The core tarrasque is no slouch but there are now lots of nastier things statted out. This one was designed by the God of Devils to act as a dead man's switch, tearing through hell, heaven, and everything between.
GM Rednall,
The system is hard to stump, but not impossible. You can certainly make any monster, but might not find the perfect ability to give it. Like trying to find the best feat or archetype for a PC concept. What we are hoping is that if the Kickstarter is really successful, I can keep adding new bestiaries and other sources to the system, with each one exponentially increasing the potential creatures you can build.
Well, my point was that the Tarrasque started as an invincible killing machine, then it got upgraded to Spawn of Rovagug status... and THEN you guys layered an even more powerful template on top of it.
I've seen madness before, but this? Are you guys D&D fans who got annoyed by the introduction of Kaijus in B4, so you wanted to keep the Tarrasque up to speed :P ?
Might as well strap a huge laser cannon on top of its shell while you're it... although that would be awesome XD
BTW Owen, making a bigger badder meaner version of a kraken, dragon, undead, demon or gelatinous cube is... pretty much "run-of-the-mill" stuff these days. But so far, not many people touched on the Tarrasque because it's already that destructive.
Backed as soon as I got the email notice that it went live!
This is a resource I really, really want for my campaign. I have one experienced Pathfinder player, one AD & D grognard, and myself, an AD & D / D & D grognard. The ability to devise fresh, variant monsters cannot be understated.
Thank you for your support and I couldn't agree more! Having fresh antagonists is vital for any game with experienced players, but the solution for everyone isn't necessarily having dozens of books with monsters in them. I know as a player I hate immediately knowing the statistics of what I am up against. It robs me of my suspense. As a GM, I equally hate when my players have that knowledge, because they go into tactical mode on how to best combat the numbers on the page.
As a GM my solution was to do a lot of re-skinning of creatures, or just describing them differently but keeping the same statistics. However, it should ideally be just as easy to make a variant or new balanced monster from the ground up. With the Talented Bestiary, any GM can quickly and easily make whatever creature they need, whether it is the unique Big Bad villain, or a throwaway sidequest encounter.
Well, my point was that the Tarrasque started as an invincible killing machine, then it got upgraded to Spawn of Rovagug status... and THEN you guys layered an even more powerful template on top of it.
I've seen madness before, but this? Are you guys D&D fans who got annoyed by the introduction of Kaijus in B4, so you wanted to keep the Tarrasque up to speed :P ?
Might as well strap a huge laser cannon on...
And it is a excellent point. What we are trying to explain is that we didn't set out with the idea of making the King of All Tarrasques, for the sake of having the biggest creature ever. We did it because we were testing out the monster builder system, and needed to push it to the absolute limits. That meant, making a creature that was CR 34 and Colossal. If we were going to do that, we might as well make it the tarrasque since being the biggest scariest thing in the Bestiary is its deal. If we were going to make all of these monsters as part of the playtesting process, we might as well include them in the final book.
It is also important to stress that there were no templates applied to the monster, and it was created from the ground up using the Talented Bestiary system. You could just as easily make a CR 2 Small-sized baby tarrasque, a CR 15 Huge-sized intelligent tarrasque with acidic skin and a prismatic spray gaze, or a CR 20-something tarrasque that pretty closely resembled the original.
Well, my point was that the Tarrasque started as an invincible killing machine, then it got upgraded to Spawn of Rovagug status... and THEN you guys layered an even more powerful template on top of it.
I've seen madness before, but this? Are you guys D&D fans who got annoyed by the introduction of Kaijus in B4, so you wanted to keep the Tarrasque up to speed :P ?
Might as well strap a huge laser cannon on...
And it is a excellent point. What we are trying to explain is that we didn't set out with the idea of making the King of All Tarrasques, for the sake of having the biggest creature ever. We did it because we were testing out the monster builder system, and needed to push it to the absolute limits. That meant, making a creature that was CR 34 and Colossal. If we were going to do that, we might as well make it the tarrasque since being the biggest scariest thing in the Bestiary is its deal. If we were going to make all of these monsters as part of the playtesting process, we might as well include them in the final book.
It is also important to stress that there were no templates applied to the monster, and it was created from the ground up using the Talented Bestiary system. You could just as easily make a CR 2 Small-sized baby tarrasque, a CR 15 Huge-sized intelligent tarrasque with acidic skin and a prismatic spray gaze, or a CR 20-something tarrasque that pretty closely resembled the original.
Oh, don't worry, I'm not complaining about it one bit; I'm just baffled that you guys just picked one of the OP creatures in D&D history... and made it even MORE OP than usual XD
Although... one major complain I do about the Tarrasque is that it wasn't based on the original mythological French creature, which was a six-legged demonic humanoid-headed turtle. If the D&D version was named differently, I wouldn't even have noticed, but now, it's like a huge "lost in translation" problem :P
Oh, don't worry, I'm not complaining about it one bit; I'm just baffled that you guys just picked one of the OP creatures in D&D history... and made it even MORE OP than usual XD
Although... one major complain I do about the Tarrasque is that it wasn't based on the original mythological French creature, which was a six-legged demonic humanoid-headed turtle. If the D&D version was named differently, I wouldn't even have noticed, but now, it's like a huge "lost in translation" problem :P
Hah! That makes sense, and I can perfectly understand that gripe.
To further explain - We had to make something incredibly high CR, just to see if it would work out within the bounds of Pathfinder. Obviously, CR 34 by its nature is overpowered. However, the system allows for monsters of that power-level to be created, so we wanted to see what the heck it would look like. The goal being to make the Talented Bestiary capable of handling any CR and power level. We went with the Tarrasque because of its iconic nature to the game, even if the original beast was a bit off from actual mythology.
I mean, maybe someone out there wants to run a game with 20th level mythic tier 10 characters with Horrifically Overpowered Feats riding on kaiju mounts. We wanted this to be as valuable a product for that game, as it is for the low-level game with a standard party.
We are fully funded and well on our way to our first stretch goal, Player Options! It will be a whole chapter on summoning talented monsters, animating talented objects, gaining monster cohorts, and more!
Also, Dan Dillon (Death) and I were invited to the Tome Show to discuss the Talented Bestiary. We had a great time talking to James about this amazing project!
Other than the flurry of (cool sounding) monsters you churned out, how does this compare/contrast with the Unchained monster generation system?
The ability to devise fresh, variant monsters cannot be understated.
Right on. I'm fond of saying that the Talented Bestiary will make Pathfinder and 3.x games brand new again, because so much about creature design is known and taken for granted. This takes the foregone conclusions out of as many encounters as you want!
Other than the flurry of (cool sounding) monsters you churned out, how does this compare/contrast with the Unchained monster generation system?
The Unchained system is literally quick and dirty encounter design. If you're just looking at both systems for the first time, Unchained probably is a little easier and faster for getting a creature encounter that's 'good enough' to go for tonight's game.
But with a little practice, the Talented Bestiary system is far more flexible and just as quick. It has some biug advantages that stand out to me.
First, Unchained creatures aren't really Pathfinder creatures. Of course they are useful in a Pathfinder game, but they don't have the full function of feats and abilities. Power Attack means something different figured into their easy-version stat block.
Second, the Talented Bestiary is very useful for PCs. Not only are we releasing cool PC options as our first stretch goal, but a group of players could make a balanced party of creatures with racial hit dice and each be totally different. The Unchained system is essentially just for GMs to create NPCs that may have to fight or minions so they only have to spend time fleshing out a complete boss. It's not really suitable for players to create their own.
Third, the Talented Bestiary offers ways to create brand new abilities. I don't remember this being possible with the Unchained system. If you want to create a wholly different aura, spell-like ability, gaze attack, etc, the Talented Bestiary allows for that pretty easily. When you all see the new auras and other stuff we created for (light spoiler) the four apocalyptic nightmares we made, you'll for sure want to start tinkering your own unique abilities.
I am a big fan of Pathfinder Unchained. My favorite parts are the class treatments, automatic bonus progression, skill unlocks, and background skills. I like the quick and dirty tool for monster creation if there weren't a better, more flexible system. Back in my 3.x campaigns I would have loved that. But I think once you see the two systems side by side you have to agree the Talented Bestiary allows your whole table to do more with it.
stuff about the original French water dragon
I say you get the book, build the mythological creature, and show it off on our page. I think that would be fun.
stuff about the original French water dragonI say you get the book, build the mythological creature, and show it off on our page. I think that would be fun.
I'll see what I can do ^_^
The Talented Bestiary is through the first stretch goal, and now will include PC options like talented monster summoning, animating talented undead or objects, and monstrous cohorts!
We are now on to the next stretch goal, Talented Templates! These rules will expand the versatile Talented Bestiary system, allowing you to quickly and easily create any template you can imagine!
We just broke 7000! Only about 1000 more to the second stretch goal, Talented Templates. This gives players and GMs the tools they need to create there own templates.
The first stretch goal we unlocked was player options, which provides the tools players need for summoning undead, animated objects, and monster companions.
So they said the Talented Bestiary could quickly design anything imaginable! And in just a few days of backer suggestions and voting (and a very short creation time) the Talented Bestiary team delivered the dream slime!
The dream slime are strange fey creatures, more akin to ooze than other fair folk. Composed of solidified imagination, the slime are capable of drawing upon a wellspring of faith from the collective unconscious.
Head on over to Kickstarter and check out the new slime with it's freshly finished art! And don't forget to back for your copy of the book while you're over there. ;)
President, Silver Crescent Publishing
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So let's be honest here. There are a ton of kick starters out there right now, as there usually are in the spring. So why should this one be at the top of the list?
Let me put it this way: I've been a GM for over 2 decades. I can't even count the number of creatures I've created in that time. Beyond that, I run the Tournament of Souls which focuses on creature creation. Balancing a creature against others of an appropriate CR is one of the most difficult things to do. What if I want more magic and fewer hps? How many spell-like abilities should in use to put them on par with everything else?
I have to admit, working with this system made the balancing issue so much easier. In fact, it wasn't even an issue at all! The system is very intuitive, and as advertised, really does take the guesswork out of creature creation.
So why should this be at the top of the list? Because it's worth it, for any Pathfinder GM. Without question.
One additional note, Stephen Rowe is awesome, even apart from his ever growing accolades in the gaming industry. He's poured his substantial creative genius into the Talented Bestiary, and I know I'm certainly going to take advantage of that. In my humble opinion, you should too.
So let's be honest here. There are a ton of kick starters out there right now, as there usually are in the spring. So why should this one be at the top of the list?
Let me put it this way: I've been a GM for over 2 decades. I can't even count the number of creatures I've created in that time. Beyond that, I run the Tournament of Souls which focuses on creature creation. Balancing a creature against others of an appropriate CR is one of the most difficult things to do. What if I want more magic and fewer hps? How many spell-like abilities should in use to put them on par with everything else?
I have to admit, working with this system made the balancing issue so much easier. In fact, it wasn't even an issue at all! The system is very intuitive, and as advertised, really does take the guesswork out of creature creation.
So why should this be at the top of the list? Because it's worth it, for any Pathfinder GM. Without question.
One additional note, Stephen Rowe is awesome, even apart from his ever growing accolades in the gaming industry. He's poured his substantial creative genius into the Talented Bestiary, and I know I'm certainly going to take advantage of that. In my humble opinion, you should too.
Thank you Dan! That means a lot to me! =)
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I saw that the Talented Bestiary could be used to create PC races. Does that mean it can put a new twist on an existing PC races? Or could I recreate lost favorites like the Giff or the Thri-Kreen? Could I finally play an Illithid?
While it *can* be used to make new races (similar to the Advanced Races Guide), it really shines in creating monster "classes" like the old Savage Species book. This is because we've already broken down all monster statistics and abilities by CR. Our $10,000 stretch goal will be a whole new section of the book with guidelines on how to do that with example monstrous classes.
Armageddon Tarrasque? As if we needed something THAT devastating O_OGM Rednall,
The system is hard to stump, but not impossible. You can certainly make any monster, but might not find the perfect ability to give it. Like trying to find the best feat or archetype for a PC concept. What we are hoping is that if the Kickstarter is really successful, I can keep adding new bestiaries and other sources to the system, with each one exponentially increasing the potential creatures you can build.
This paragraph makes me wonder which bestiaries are already covered by the book. The first couple of stretch goals seem to be giving new options for using the book as opposed to it getting all the monster abilities from the later bestiaries. I'm not sure how many new abilities were added with each one, but I would have though getting the new abilities from at least the core ones would be one of the first things you would do.
This paragraph makes me wonder which bestiaries are already covered by the book. The first couple of stretch goals seem to be giving new options for using the book as opposed to it getting all the monster abilities from the later bestiaries. I'm not sure how many new abilities were added with each one, but I would have though getting the new abilities from at least the core ones would be one of the first things you would do.Armageddon Tarrasque? As if we needed something THAT devastating O_OGM Rednall,
The system is hard to stump, but not impossible. You can certainly make any monster, but might not find the perfect ability to give it. Like trying to find the best feat or archetype for a PC concept. What we are hoping is that if the Kickstarter is really successful, I can keep adding new bestiaries and other sources to the system, with each one exponentially increasing the potential creatures you can build.
Absolutely correct! This initial book covers all creature types, subtypes, universal monster abilities, and all unique creature abilities from the Bestiary 1. So, that is the biggest chunk of the core rules. Later stretch goals include adding additional Bestiaries, but each would require a lot of work to incorporate and playtest. Keep in mind the work would involve compiling every ability in each Bestiary, breaking it down into the point system, and ensuring everything is balanced against the base rules. We might not get there with this initial offering, but I am hopeful! Heck, if sales are good enough we might branch out to any monster we can find, including 3PP sources.
A cute little rainbow slime told me Bestiary 2 is the stretch goal for 20,000! All the more reason to share! ;)
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RPG Superstar 2013
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Hey gang, our first update after funding offered a list of all the creatures created in the book. The system allows creation of anything you can imagine, and to prove it we made a couple hundred monsters to test that system. You get them with the book including color art.
I thought I'd publish a partial list here so we can talk about which creature is coolest. The short answer is...all of them!
aboleth, savage
solar, fallen
basilisk, pandemonium
cat swarm, carnivorous
cockatrice, crossbred
darkmantle, nightmantle
balor lord, Drozuum
devil, ayperobos swarm
imp, advocate
pit fiend, Duke Alastor
tyrannosaurus, vindicator
dolphin, maraka
doppelganger swarm, myriad
dragon, Turrakeron
eel swarm, flying electric
flytrap, blackflower giant
gelatinous cube, reflector
efreeti, moltenblade
frost giant, wasting
iron golem, iron maiden (EXCELLENT!)
green hag, innkeeper
bison, white
linnorm, fey
mimic, mansion
mummy, peat
nightmare (death, famine, pestilence, war)
nymph, warrior
phase spider, singularity
rakshasa, gunslinger
rat, hive
spectre, dethroned
tarrasque, armageddon
tiger, autumn reaper
troll, infected
wyvern, axetail
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These dudes know what they're doing. Buy this book and you won't regret it!
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand it just passed the 8k mark :D
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand it just passed the 8k mark :D
Woo! We now have Talented Templates! Now on to Monster PC Classes!
I admit, the Templates part really interests me. XD Is there any chance we can get a sample of that before the campaign ends?
I'll look at trying to put something together!
Well I know from experience the four horsemen know their way around some halfdragon templates, so here's hoping on that front.
Rainzax, at the $30 backer level, you'll get all the pdf products from stretch goals as well as a pdf of the base Talented Bestiary, including creatures and the system. You'll also be able to order a single copy of the book in print-on-demand. At the estimated $19 for print cost, you'll be getting a full color print book and three pdf products for a total of $49, which is pretty great value. Consider that a regular hardback bestiary is $40-50 without the flexible system, player options, monster classes, or templates.
And of course, at $20,000 you'll get additional products for added value.
I'm thinking of running an all Talented campaign. I think this could really be fun and interesting for my group. I'm glad I backed it early.
I'm thinking of running an all Talented campaign. I think this could really be fun and interesting for my group. I'm glad I backed it early.
Thank you for your support and that sounds like a really cool idea! It is also the core of the whole Talented Bestiary concept. After all, if PCs can make anything they want, easily, with Talented Classes... then why shouldn't GMs be in on the fun? Plus, it helps balance things out. =)
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While it *can* be used to make new races (similar to the Advanced Races Guide), it really shines in creating monster "classes" like the old Savage Species book. This is because we've already broken down all monster statistics and abilities by CR. Our $10,000 stretch goal will be a whole new section of the book with guidelines on how to do that with example monstrous classes.
That just cleared up a major mis-conception of mine. I read the product description as having the primary goal of creating new races from the ground up. And tbh that doesn't appeal to me, because I just don't think we NEED more, and because I don't think I'm creative enough to come up with more anyway.
Knowing what I know now about its intended purpose, I'm way more interested in this product than I thought I was.
Thanks!
While it *can* be used to make new races (similar to the Advanced Races Guide), it really shines in creating monster "classes" like the old Savage Species book. This is because we've already broken down all monster statistics and abilities by CR. Our $10,000 stretch goal will be a whole new section of the book with guidelines on how to do that with example monstrous classes.
That just cleared up a major mis-conception of mine. I read the product description as having the primary goal of creating new races from the ground up. And tbh that doesn't appeal to me, because I just don't think we NEED more, and because I don't think I'm creative enough to come up with more anyway.
Knowing what I know now about its intended purpose, I'm way more interested in this product than I thought I was.
Thanks!
Oh no! Absolutely not! The primary goal of the product is simplifying and streamlining the monster creation process. The core system also lends itself well to cool ideas like creating templates or monster classes.