Hello everyone,
I have played few D&D 3.5 campaign and I'm currently playing my first pathfinder one. I never really considered the use of mount for my previous campaign for different reasons, but now someone in my party just buy a war-trained horse with full armor. He really want to play with a mount and try to find one since level 1.
I think that if he is the only one to have a mount, he won't use it's full potential (because he have to wait for us most of the time). So I bring the idea that everyone should buy a mount.
We are a full ranged party with :
- gunslinger (the one who buy the mount)
- wizzard
- alchemist (specialized in throwing bomb)
- ranged inquisitor (me)
- ranger (not always here)
(we are all level 5)
So I think that as ranged characters we could take great benefit of the mounts.
BUT, the mount also bring some disadvantages (I don't only consider the mechanical aspect but also the roleplay, note that our campaign are not a lot combat-oriented)
- We have to take care of them, and we can't bring them inside dungeon/cave (although we mostly play in outside area)
- We make a lot of "stealthy" and assassination mission, horse are not really stealthy ...
- It can sink a lot of money if we loose them often (killed in combat or other causes)
- I worship Elhonna ( we use 3.5 pantheon), godess of nature. I can't harm animal (even indirectly or by inaction) or put animal in danger. So I think I'm not going to use my mount in combat, or at least not when it can be hit.
- My build is already feat-intensive and I can't take mount related feat until level 11. But I can use some gold and few skill point.
If you have any other pros / cons to help me decide wether or not I should buy a mount I'll take it !
The main problem with buying mounts (as opposed to gaining them thru a class feature like mount or animal companion) is that they dont scale well. At all
At low level they sure are great. They are a sack of hit points and can probably do some damage in their own right, maybe more than a pc (ask anyone who has bought a tiger at low level) but passed level 5 or 6 those hitpoints just wont last. A simple threat to the pcs will outright kill the mounts, even without having to focus fire any of them. At least animal companions gain hit points and evasion to give them some longevity but even then you can see that they are expected to expendable as they are free(depending on gm and circumstance) to replace.
If you dont have mount or AC as a class feature, dont waste feats into mounted combat.
There are other methods for keeping up with overland travel.
Wizzards get the mount spells and overland flight
Alchemist can get a fly speed.
Ranger can get an Animal companion.
The main problem with mounts, either bought or animal companion, that I have encountered are their poor saves. My tiger animal companion spends most of his time paralyzed or feared. He even died once from poison.
On the other hand, they are really good for levels 1-4.
Well that's exactly what I was afraid of. So basically mount for everyone isn't a good idea.
Maybe just restrict the uses of mount for travel and be careful to not involve them in fight, but this is going to be hard.
Communal mount spell is a great way to do it, thank for pointing this out. I'm going to talk with my wizard :)
Mounts can be great... when your class offers one, be as an actual mount or as an animal companion. It's extra speed, maneuverability, less trouble to get stuck in difficult terrain, greater carrying capacities, swim and even fly speeds.
The main problem is that it doesn't scale with you if it's not a class feature; the Animal Ally feat would be required, be for a horse, a camel or a wolf (which grows Large later on).
If you get a mount through a class feature that gets better it can have a decent AC and saves, but you will have to buy the gear for it. When I had a druid I took the craft wondrous item and craft arms and armor feat to be sure I had the money to equip it.
you can always hire a groom which is a npc ranger that specializes in taking care of mounts. here's a un-link-ified link to the npc archetype.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---rang er-archetypes/groom
you can always hire the groom as a hireling or servant not sure if any leadership is needed for one your paying. just look over the hireling section of this un-link-ified link
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/goods-and-services/hirelings-serv ants-services
just have him or her wait outside. he or she will take care of your mount.
its just an option you can look into.you know the pros
cons
-you have to buy feed for your mounts
-you have to buy tack
-you might want to buy barding to protect your mount
The problems are more along the lines of "surviving combat".
Yes we'll probably won't use our mount during combat exept for the gunslinger. I think I'll use it only for travel, but I want to keep always the same horse and try my best to keep it alive (and not switch mount at each town). So I need ways to keep him safe while I fight.
The groom npc is pretty great i'm going to speak with my GM about this.
I don't necessarily recommend this, but you could wait to get to 7th level, take Leadership and get a monstrous cohort you can ride---it doesn't have to be very monstrous, an awakened heavy horse will do. It'll get class levels as you advance, so it should stay survivable.
I don't necessarily recommend this, but you could wait to get to 7th level, take Leadership and get a monstrous cohort you can ride---it doesn't have to be very monstrous, an awakened heavy horse will do. It'll get class levels as you advance, so it should stay survivable.
This seems fun and I keep the idea for another campaign, but the point here is that everyone should have a mount. And I'm not going to ask all my party to take a feat. (and I don't really have spare feat in my build)
One thing I do as a GM that every 3 level a mount you buy gains HP do to it travel xp at 6 hp though it not much but it better then nothing.
Eh, mounts is a pretty vague term. If you guys wish to purchase mounts in the traditional way, then I advise against bothering to get something trained for combat. Now, there ARE a few exceptions to this rule, such as griffons and other monstrous mounts, but they're absurdly expensive to purchase normally. Your average mount isn't bad money wise, but they just can't be brought into combat past level 6. Now, you could beef them up with buffs and magical barding and the like, but generally it's just to much money to waste on an animal that will still be fairly weak. Horses aren't a bad idea for transport, but they're just irrelevant in combat. Now class feature mounts are different, and some spells can create the equivalent of mounts, but if you want them as a party then just buy some cheap horses, and stow them somewhere when encounters happen.
Quick update after a game. I talk to my party about this and here is the result.
Our wizzard learned communal mount, so we are going to use it for travel.
And our alchemist build an mechanical horse with some kind of animated object enchantement (which was really expensive) and plan to use it during combat.
This is probably going to be expensive for the gunslinger and the alchemist in the long term but it's thier choices.
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Well that's exactly what I was afraid of. So basically mount for everyone isn't a good idea.
Maybe just restrict the uses of mount for travel and be careful to not involve them in fight, but this is going to be hard.Communal mount spell is a great way to do it, thank for pointing this out. I'm going to talk with my wizard :)
You're in luck! As it happens there is a book that is full of helpful advice and options for making Mounted Combat useful, cool, and fun for the whole party (even the wizard). I urge you to check it out.
It's also possible to gain an Animal Companion through the Animal Ally feat. It's a two-feat chain to get and then a third feat if you need it to be at full level, but getting an Animal Companion mount through nothing but feats is a pretty impressive buy if you can afford it. Riding a strong mount in battle is fantastic as a ranged character.
The main problem with buying mounts (as opposed to gaining them thru a class feature like mount or animal companion) is that they dont scale well. At all
At low level they sure are great. They are a sack of hit points and can probably do some damage in their own right, maybe more than a pc (ask anyone who has bought a tiger at low level) but passed level 5 or 6 those hitpoints just wont last. A simple threat to the pcs will outright kill the mounts, even without having to focus fire any of them. At least animal companions gain hit points and evasion to give them some longevity but even then you can see that they are expected to expendable as they are free(depending on gm and circumstance) to replace.
If you dont have mount or AC as a class feature, dont waste feats into mounted combat.
There are other methods for keeping up with overland travel.
Wizzards get the mount spells and overland flight
Alchemist can get a fly speed.
Ranger can get an Animal companion.
My wizard's favorite spell for getting a party in motion is Phantom Chariot. If he's feeling really lazy,and we have room, he'll summon a Phantom Driver to steer it. My mythic wizard would use her star bubble power.
Mounts for travel are usually helpful for travel, but unless you're all playing a survival adventure they tend to be a background detail.
At lower levels (say up to about 4 or maybe 5), purchased animals are great for moving around during combat, and sometimes for combat, BUT in order to do this effectively you need to invest at least a little bit of Ride skill if you are not to spend the entire time trying to control your panicked mount. You might need Mounted Combat as well. But the mount can contribute quite a bit in combat (carrying you around at greater speed than you can manage, some fighting support, extra hit points, etc.)
Beyond level 5 mounts really need to scale with you (class features, Leadership cohorts, something like that) or they just die in huge numbers to things that barely scratch you. (This is not entirely unrealistic -- 18th-century aides-de-camp used to take 15-20 horses with them on a campaign, figuring a number of them would die in the process -- but it's sort of hard on the mounts, not to mention how hard it may or may not be to replace one in the middle of something.)
It's also possible to gain an Animal Companion through the Animal Ally feat. It's a two-feat chain to get and then a third feat if you need it to be at full level, but getting an Animal Companion mount through nothing but feats is a pretty impressive buy if you can afford it. Riding a strong mount in battle is fantastic as a ranged character.Not really. Without Mounted Archery you are taking a Minus 4 to shoot before any other penalties. Minus eight if the mount is running. Minus 4 even against Touch is noticeable. Now add another four for a mount running. So your roll of nineteen is now an eleven. At higher levels even against touch that's a miss. Even with Mounted Archery you will always be taking a minus two to four using ranged weapons while mounted. Another thing to consider Spirited Charge only works for melee attacks not ranged. Again this is assuming you can use your mount.
Ranged attack penalties while mounted are only relevant for a double-move or while running. Being able to fire a full attack worth of arrows while still being mobile is often extremely useful even if you have to take a penalty to do it, but typically you don't.
