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This system seems really interesting, I bookmarked it for further reading.
But I know that my GM will not allow it :(


Ok so both class seems unfinished and without a lot of content, but at least kineticist get 3pp content and the system doesn't seems broken.

My issue is that two people speak about "simplified character" or "easy to play", my concern is that usually easy-to-play character give less possibility and I get bored of them -_-. Is it the case for the geokineticist ? I mean you only get one utility talent every 2 level and even less infusion.

Now I need to find a good background story for my dwarf geokineticist :p


Hello everyone, after some builds and campaigns with the core classes and system I'd like to try something new for my next campaign. I'm looking for some new system with fun mechanics and my choice are between a sorcerer with word of power or a geokineticist. Both classes bring some new stuff and they seems fun to play !

If I go sorcerer it's going to be mostly a blaster burning stuff and making big 'splosion, if I go geokineticist it's going to be tank / battlefield controller protecting the squishy by controlling the progression of the ennemy and taking hit for them.

I have hard time making a choice, mostly because ressources on these classes are not easy to find. So I'd like to hear all the pro/cons you can give on both choices. I'm not looking for specific advices on each build, only global appreciation for both playstyle and system.

I don't care if I'm not optimal, I just don't want to be useless to my team. My biggest fear is that a lot of feat / equipment won't work with this classes and there isn't a lot of specific stuff for these systems. So : is one of this idea (or both) viable ? Or are they both bad in terms of gameplay/fun/usefulness ?

Little bonus : I have a nice background ready for the sorcerer, but only vague ideas for the geokineticist.


Sjurlog Ohms wrote:

So is the ref save at your own spell save DC or at DC 15?

Or does it become DC 15 in the subsequent turns?

At our table we use spell DC for the initial save and then DC 15 (because the fire isn't magic, it's the same as describe in the environment rules)


Some melee-only special ability require "a free action to activate (on hit)" or other kind of action. I think this kind of action can only be done when you hold the weapon, so not when you throw it.


Hm I think it's a good idea but I cannot use several summon monster SLA in the same time. So the only way is to summon lower level monster (and even at level-1 there is 1/3 chance that I only summon 1 monster). Outflank will probably bump their to hit higher than current level monsters.


Hello everyone, I post here because I have hard time choosing teamwork feat for my monster tactician inquisitor which just up level 6.

I'm a switch hitter but mostly ranged (nearly all my feat are spend on ranged combat). I only go in melee when needed or against lot a small enemies.
Short summary of my class : I have free teamwork feat every 3 level. I can swap the last one few times a day as standard action but the other one are fixed. With solo tactic I consider every allies as if they had the feat for the placement and action prerequisites and with summon tactics I give my teamwork feats to my summoned monsters.

So now I have to choose one teamwork feat, but most of them are based on being in melee, adjacent to an ally or flanking. Until now I mostly used "non combat" feat like stealth synergie.

I play in a full ranged team : alchemist (spe in throwing bomb), gunslinger (will probably go for assassin PrC) and wizard (Evocation).


  • Target of opportunity is a must have with my team, but I can't take it before level 9.
  • coordinated shoot and enfilading fire can be good, but there are no melee except my summoned monsters.
  • Outflank can be nice when I go help my monsters in melee but I'm mostly shooting with my bow, so not always usefull ...
  • Broken wing gambit / wounded paw gambit : free ranged attack is always good, but only work with my summons (and not with solo tactic). Plus my summoned monster have no benefit from it (and take more damages).

Do you have any suggestions for me ?


Sorry for the double post, but I missed the one hour limit for editing :

If you want to make commercial activity in that city, you can put a specific market place outside the main wall of the city where magic item are allowed. The crafters have specific way to bring their item to sell, heavily monitored or escorted.
You can't go back to the city with your magic item but the are safe storage near the gate of the city.


Anti magic field in the whole city seems really hard to justify (firstly for the cost if you follow the rules, and secondly because some people should be allowed to use magic).

Make the city entirely covered by small object with detect magic (improved version with longer range). For exemple make it small gem on all the street lamp.

If one of the object detect a spell, it trigger an alarm. The city should have special force trained against magical user (at least one wizard with dispel magic, or magus which seem a better option) with weapon against magical user (I remenber a bolas with small antimagic field around them).

At the important passage point (gates of the city, rich quarter, ect) put wizard with arcane sight that scan everyone and take appropriate mesure with the spellcaster. (eg. escort them or force them to wear antimagic ring).

Of course, some people should be allowed to use magic (priest, crafter, some wizard who work for the gouvernement).
This person should register and get a certificate that state what kind of spell they can use and where (maybe a special tatoo). And the alarm isn't triggered by this people.


Haha I know someone who was so scared of spider, that he was stuck in some video game (namely Skyrim and WoW) because he just can't approach them, even when he know it's virtual.

I don't really have suggestion for replacement, but the system of background/character disadvantage is nice, I already use it. You have to find a balanced advantage to give him.


I have a ranged inquisitor and I agree that the ranged feat are less powerfull than the melee one.
Basically there is target of opportunity and Volley fireif you have other ranged in your team.
And then coordinated shot and wounded paw gambit as you said.

I mostly use teamwork feat for utility (lookout, stealth synergie, team pickpocketing, splash volley).

The worst for me is that I'm a monster tactician, and ranged (yeah may be it was not a good choice but too late) so the feat I share with my summoned monster never benefit to both of us (exept wounded paw gambit).


Quick update after a game. I talk to my party about this and here is the result.

Our wizzard learned communal mount, so we are going to use it for travel.
And our alchemist build an mechanical horse with some kind of animated object enchantement (which was really expensive) and plan to use it during combat.

This is probably going to be expensive for the gunslinger and the alchemist in the long term but it's thier choices.


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
I don't necessarily recommend this, but you could wait to get to 7th level, take Leadership and get a monstrous cohort you can ride---it doesn't have to be very monstrous, an awakened heavy horse will do. It'll get class levels as you advance, so it should stay survivable.

This seems fun and I keep the idea for another campaign, but the point here is that everyone should have a mount. And I'm not going to ask all my party to take a feat. (and I don't really have spare feat in my build)


Yes we'll probably won't use our mount during combat exept for the gunslinger. I think I'll use it only for travel, but I want to keep always the same horse and try my best to keep it alive (and not switch mount at each town). So I need ways to keep him safe while I fight.

The groom npc is pretty great i'm going to speak with my GM about this.


Well that's exactly what I was afraid of. So basically mount for everyone isn't a good idea.
Maybe just restrict the uses of mount for travel and be careful to not involve them in fight, but this is going to be hard.

Communal mount spell is a great way to do it, thank for pointing this out. I'm going to talk with my wizard :)


Hello everyone,
I have played few D&D 3.5 campaign and I'm currently playing my first pathfinder one. I never really considered the use of mount for my previous campaign for different reasons, but now someone in my party just buy a war-trained horse with full armor. He really want to play with a mount and try to find one since level 1.

I think that if he is the only one to have a mount, he won't use it's full potential (because he have to wait for us most of the time). So I bring the idea that everyone should buy a mount.

We are a full ranged party with :
- gunslinger (the one who buy the mount)
- wizzard
- alchemist (specialized in throwing bomb)
- ranged inquisitor (me)
- ranger (not always here)

(we are all level 5)
So I think that as ranged characters we could take great benefit of the mounts.

BUT, the mount also bring some disadvantages (I don't only consider the mechanical aspect but also the roleplay, note that our campaign are not a lot combat-oriented)

- We have to take care of them, and we can't bring them inside dungeon/cave (although we mostly play in outside area)
- We make a lot of "stealthy" and assassination mission, horse are not really stealthy ...
- It can sink a lot of money if we loose them often (killed in combat or other causes)
- I worship Elhonna ( we use 3.5 pantheon), godess of nature. I can't harm animal (even indirectly or by inaction) or put animal in danger. So I think I'm not going to use my mount in combat, or at least not when it can be hit.
- My build is already feat-intensive and I can't take mount related feat until level 11. But I can use some gold and few skill point.

If you have any other pros / cons to help me decide wether or not I should buy a mount I'll take it !


Totaly agree with the fact that you must prevent the player to use teleportation spell. Also make flying dangerous (maybe make the atmosphere after 2-3 meter is poisonned ....)
You should also find a find to avoid a player cutting/ burning the hedge (or make them re growth really fast).

You could also use fey who attack everyone who don't respect the maze (try to fly or cut the hedge).

Be sure to have a map of the maze for you, with correct scale and try to describe correctly the distance. If the player don't like drawing the map while they explore (but it's fun !) you could try another approach :
Draw the full map on a big (like, really big) paper. Cover it with something (eg : playing card) and uncover portion of the map when the PC explore it (if the PC are distracted, eg if they run or move during combat, you can cover again some portion of the maze because they didn't memorize it). This ask more preparation time for you, especially if you want to do it perfectly.

I haven't any specific idea for the encounter, but some fun things is to try to scare the PC (it doesn't work with everyone). You could leave hints of really dangerous monster, maybe use illusion spell. The pc will probably loose time making plan, and maybe even casting some spell. Then you keep the tension for some time but nothing happen :)


Thanks for your answers.
For bane, I'm already an inquisitor so I'm not going to buy that.

I already use few non magical arrow (tanglefoot, slow burn, pheromone ...) and love it.

What about spell storing arrow ? This seems pretty powerfull (may be too much ?)


Hello everyone,
I post here because I like the idea of a ranged character with ton of differents arrow for every situations. But is it viable in pathfinder ?

My GM made some house-rules for this : the ammunition doesn't need a +1 enhancement bonus before adding special ability and I can buy any number of magical arrow (I do not have to buy stack of 50 every time). This cut down the cost of flamming arrow and other +1 bonus to 46Gp / arrow.

I was planning to take effective quiver, and a +1 conserving bow (to avoid loosing cash when I miss) and buy some arrow for each kind of elemental damage and/or damage reduction type.

Then I can stack the + bonus on the bow (or bonus like seeking / speed / ...) and use my magical arrow for flexibility and adaptability.

I really like the idea but I keep thinking that it's going to cost a lot, it's 46Gp per shoot with +1 bonus ...

What do you think of this plan ? What kind of special arrow can be nice for this ?


Hello, could you tell us little more about your character and your role in combat ? And also about your teammate ?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
miscdebris wrote:

How about including CMB/CMD for us maneuver build lovers?

I'll stick that in there if you like.

If you have a link with average cmb/cmd per CR I'll do that, but this values are not in the link in the original document

EDIT :

I've found This Document with CMD and CMB and I added it, using the same rules as AC/attack for the color.

I'm not really sure of the exactitude of this informations ...


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Deadmanwalking wrote:

It won't let me select a CR, remaining stuck at CR 5, which sorta limits the utility.

Or I'm doing it wrong, which is possible.

I think it's because you don't have the right to modify the sheet, you have to create a copy to fill it with your values. (file -> create copy)


6 people marked this as a favorite.

For those who are afraid of math I made this :

Pathfinder benchmark
You just have to select a CR and fill the blank and it compute everything and show the colors.

I need to add an option for iterative attack ...


DM Shade wrote:


Fireball: A tried and true classic spell. Fireball's weakness is based off the spell's description (a pea-sized bead, or a fine-sized object) and by intuiting some facts.
Spell Weakness: A fireball can be intercepted with a ranged attack. If a held action triggers in response to a fireball, the target must succeed on an attack roll versus the AC of a 13 (5 base + 8 size bonus). If the attack is successful, the attacker can preemptively explode the bead (discharging the fireball as normal) but in an area of effect chosen by the attacker. The area of effect must be centered at any point between the caster and the initial target of the caster. This can take effect on the caster's space.

I think your AC of 13 is for immobile object, but the fireball bead move (and pretty fast, up to 400ft in less than 6 secondes).

The AC should be way higher.


This seems fun :)

Just a little point based on my previous experiences (may be I'm wrong) but I think pathfinder is not really balanced for combat with 1 big monster against a PC team. Because if you want the fight to be memorable it have to last a few turns, but the damage and resistance of the monster scale together and the action economy is defavorable to the monster. So if you want a monster that can survive few turn with several PC focusing on it, he is going to have some really dangerous attack and will probably one-shoot your PC on a critical hit (or kill a wizzard in one turn with a full attack).

Some more experienced players/GM could have some suggestion of encounter, or maybe you could houserule some monster for higher resistance / lower damage.


I don't really see myself building a character with this kind of benchmark but it's pretty usefull when you take an existing character and use it to decide what you are going to do in the next level :
what kind of gear should I prioritize or this kind of stuff.
Really interesting. But I agree that blue rating is a complete overkill. You should aim for orange everywhere and try to push one thing in green depending on your role.


An assassination mission which looked pretty easy. The PC planned to use a wand of invisibility and let the rogue cut the throat of the few guards.

Too bad they were monk with blindfight and telepatic link with the other guards so they spot them directly.


Really awesome guide ! thanks for your work. I think linking this in appendix II can be useful :

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1o91Z-s0R7Vf2Ujj1lFqGC5W--9JOyU0I6uC9XRI R5to/edit

It explain how to use your ability for other things that the classical use (eg add charisma mod to AC).
I know it's on the array of optimization and contain third party source so it doesn't suit exactly your guide but I think it can be really usefull for the people who hesitate to take a class because it's MAD. (It was really usefull for me at least).

Also, maybe a few line on choosing your character for a group. If the other players have already fixed thier choice this can limit yours if you want a balanced group.


How exactly do you want your world to look like the Witcher serie ?

Because iirc magic is really rare, there is really few people who really master magic like pathfinder wizzard (the sorcelor have really limited magic power). Same for the magic items.
Try to look for the lore before the first game, when sorcelor school were popular.

You could try a world where the commoner and even the little-medium nations are powerless against even the small monster because they don't know anything about magic.

Also, consider either playing the training / youth of the monster hunter with fast progression rate or start at higher level because the whole point is that the sorcelors are way superior to the humans.

Last thing : hunting cool and unique monster is fun, but will become repetive. Mix it with some plot and try to force the players to gather information about the monster before the fight.
You should also add plot with local nobility/nation and competition with other monster hunter school.


Ok thanks for the quick answer.


Hello everyone, I know the rules for wizzard's spell preparation but there is something unclear for me.
What happen when the wizzard is waked up during the night and have to fight ?

The rules states

Quote:
Rest: To prepare his daily spells, a wizard must first sleep for 8 hours. The wizard does not have to slumber for every minute of the time, but he must refrain from movement, combat, spellcasting, skill use, conversation, or any other fairly demanding physical or mental task during the rest period. If his rest is interrupted, each interruption adds 1 hour to the total amount of time he has to rest in order to clear his mind, and he must have at least 1 hour of uninterrupted rest immediately prior to preparing his spells. If the character does not need to sleep for some reason, he still must have 8 hours of restful calm before preparing any spells.

For me "clear his mind" mean "erase the spell list of the last day". So if the wizzard wake up after ~6-7 h of sleep does he have an empty spell list or does he still have his remaning spells from the last day ?


I never considered the second option but it seems really interesting !

The only issue is that the player need an "irl skill" as high as his character otherwise he cannot play the scene.
For example, with the method of roleplaying first I'm going to describe how I want to persuade X to do Y by using argument Z.
If I make a diplomacy check of ~15 I can describe the scene and do the dialog with the GM, same if I roll 2. But if I make a diplomacy check of 30 I don't really know how to play the scene.
In that case the GM are probably going to say that I've found the perfect argument and I have an honeyed tongue, or something like this.

I'm agree with some of you who say that roleplaying first and then rolling dice can be absurd if you have made a awesome speech and fail the check. But you can look at it like this :

The roleplaying scene you describe to the GM is what your character prepare in his head, what he want to do. ( I'm sure all of you have already prepared a speech to say in his head). The roll then describe how your character are going to execute this plan, and how close it his to his expectation (it can even surpass it). It's the same in real life, when you prepare a nice speech but then you babble or say another word, or the contrary and you find instant inspiration and come with awesome comeback.

Also in my table you can never say "I persuade this guy to do that" and just roll, you have to come with an idea or arguments. And you are encouraged to play the social interaction according to your character skills.


r3st0r wrote:


- Would an Inquisitor with a focus on Wisdom / Cha / Dex (with weapon finesse / using the Rapier as deity weapon, and having some captain related skills such as Intimidate, Sailing, and such) work?

Hello, I don't know this campaign but I can help on this point. If you take the conversion inquisition, you use your WIS modifier instead of your CHA for all social skills. So you can base your character only on DEX and WIS.

Inquisitor have passive bonus to intimidate and sense motive, and 6 skill point/lvl to spend. Plus some spell to improve this.

On the other hand cleric have some usefull spell for ship-based campaign. But if you have other spellcaster they probably can do this.

Also, lore-wise I encourage you to go the light-armor / high dex route (make sense for a pirate). You can do that with either cleric or inquisitor if you take weapon finesse.


MuertoXSky wrote:

Nice topic.

I would say combat-based campaign, a Fighter for beginners should be good enough.

A more prepared campaign + combat, Ranger is fun, lots of skills and different ways to solve problems.

Paladins are, well, paladins, you dont decide to choose a paladin for this campaign, you feel the calling. Anyway, paladin could also be used for guiding beginners.

What really bothers me for the issue of Fighters and beginners, is that the Fighter has little to offer in problem solving skills, utility, etc. So, after the beginner understands the most important mechanics and can focus on the narrative and problem solving in the game, he will see why it is better to be other class for almos everything, since he has almost nothing to help him not related to combat.

This usually happens around the second or third session, where the new players tries to acompany the explorer of the party, and fails, sees he has no spells, not enough skill points to be the face, and has to choose practically between Knowledge (Engeneering) and Intimidate, and that would be it.

Of course, IMO.

Totaly agree with that, in my first campaign there was a new player who choose fighter and the campaign wasn't very combat-oriented. So most of the time he felt useless and was bored.

Overall it wasn't a nice experience for him.

Anyway, I will never understand why some player find it hard to learn the rules. I know that pathfinder have a lot of rules compared to some other RPG but I think it only take 1-2 session to master the basic of combat rules (action economy, rolls, stats, saves, AC, ect ...). Of course if you want to master your class and all it's possibilities or try to optimize your character it's a lot longer.


GM 1990 wrote:


I took 3x5 cards, cut in 1/2 and then folded like the letter V. It has Character name, and AC on it, I also have a couple blanks for Monster. We roll INI and then I re-order those on the edge of the 2'x3' battle mat so everyone can see when their turn is coming. I can see their AC which helps me with the monster attacks.

I try to help this along by saying, "You've fought ogres before, and remember they have tough hide and are tough to bring down. OOC: You need to meet or beat a 17 AC." Now they don't have to ask anymore if 16 hits.

I really like your system. Only issue for me is that I don't like the player knowing exactly the AC (then they can optimize all the mechanic like power attack). They should know it only if they already fight this kind of monster and deduced it from the hit/miss.

GM 1990 wrote:
So I'd describe how hard they were hit, but not how many HPs they took, and as they got more injured I'd describe the fatigue/bleeding etc. Not knowing exactly how close to 0 you are - especially once you go unconscious -really- adds to making the combat more immersive and focused. When you know you're only at -1 nobody is running to drag you out of combat, but when nobody knows there is a sense of urgency to help you.

In our game the GM don't keep track of the HP, only the players. But they are encouraged to describe their physical condition, and 'act' accordingly to their current HP. Also they are forbiden to tell the other player their exact current HP OCC (or speak about any other numbers and stats).


Derek Dalton wrote:
The specialization of ranged attackers is a problem. The most common problem is attacks of opportunity when in melee. You say you don't want to be melee that's fine although you and the Alchemist are the best for that role considering what your party consists of. Granted with enough feats you can remove that problem but sometimes it's nice to have someone be able to get close and melee.

Are you talking about feat to avoid being in melee (like ranged trip) or feat to be more usefull with a bow in melee (like snapshot or point blank master ) ?

I know that sometime I have to go in melee. I need to be prepared for this and that's why I should have a decent melee weapon. That's also why I took quick draw, but I didn't want to invest in other melee feat.

Derek Dalton wrote:
While I have heard a lot of people say summoning monsters is the way to go consider this. Most don't stack with higher level encounters. Two the duration without feats is short unless feats or specialized class abilities. A problem is long combats and they happen for a variety of reasons.

As a monster tactician my summons spell are in min/lvl (instead or round/lvl) and I have 3+Wis uses per day. So it's enough for all the fight.

I'm agree that it dosen't stack well at high level, but as I said I only plan up to level 10. And I think the peak of power is around summons monster 3-4 (probably 5 too).


CampinCarl9127 wrote:

Descriptions. Descriptions. Descriptions.

They are that important. Being a descriptive storyteller is what turns a bunch of numbers and dice rolls into a nail-biting combat. When the fighter attacked you don't say "Yes, a 23 will hit so you do 12 damage". Instead, say "The fighter swings forward and brings down a mighty blow, pushing aside the cleric's shield and burying his axe deep in the unholy man's collarbone!"

Do not report to the players what is happening mechanically. It is important to let them know mechanically what is going on, but you are not computers. Give it as much personal spin and flavor as you want. You're not comparing die rolls to see who dies. You are building a detailed and elaborate and climactic battle!

Can't agree more. My GM do this in a really nice way, and I always see the fight in my head and project myself in my character.

But ... the players have to do the same things otherwise it break the immersion and the GM should encourage (or force) them to do it.
Of course we are always going to ask "did a 18 hit ?" or "he need to make reflex save DD 16" or things like this but we should describe all our action.

I think the best way is to describe the action as much as possible whitout using any rules or technical terms, and the other person in the table should understand what is happening mechanically.
I think the GM should note AC and saves of the player and don't ask it during fight. But I never find a nice way to know (as a player) if you hit or no without asking the GM. I don't want to know the exact AC of the opponent, the only things I can do is extrapolating from previous hit/miss on the same target.

Also, we don't always use battlegrid. Only when the fight involve more than 3-4 enemy or in complexe situations.


tkul wrote:

Summary up top - You and the wizard need to switch roles.

Unfortunately stopping them from getting to close combat isn't really in the cards unless your wizard wants to take over the battlefield control role. Inquisitors make lousy controllers with their spell list and archers are great at pumping out damage but not so hot at making people stay where they are. You could try picking up the Ranged Trip feat to at least prolong the inevitable, it takes a full round action to make the trip attempt at range but you can potentially knock them down and do damage, but that only hurts the Gunslinger's chance to deal with the guy since he's know shooting at a prone target.

Totaly agree with the fact that the wizzard should be better at battlefield control than an inquisitor. But sadly not with my wizzard's current spell list. I'll try to influence her future choice (he didn't choose for level 4 yet).

Ranged trip look nice, but I can't take it before level 7 (rapid shot at level 5 is mandatory I think) and I have to switch quick draw with deadly aim. The -2 to CMB (and -4 if more than 30feet) hurt a lot I think, as I'm only a 3/4 bab and don't have any CMB bonus ?

tkul wrote:


You may want to try using your summons as a screen rather than a front line combatant. Summon them up at least 10ft away from the enemy but in the charge lanes so the enemies need to waste a full turn dealing with them or risk attacks of opportunity. As much as possibly you want to remove the ability to take full attacks on whatever you're summoning, I'd recommend earth elementals for this role most the time, so they have a better chance of sticking around a little longer. In the same vein if you want to focus on using your summons you're going to need to go the summoner route, take spell focus conjuration into Augment Summon to make them a little beefier but there again the Wizard will be a better choice. They get more access to conjuration spells that can use that Spell Focus and they get high level summon monsters to actually benefit from Augment summon.

Yes I already try to use them as screen when possible but exept the earth elemental with it's 17 AC, the other can't last more than one round if focused and even with augment summoning i'm not sure that +4 CON (+4 hp for my current summons) change it a lot because the AC stay the same.

Then again, I don't have any spare feat slot so if I take augment summoning I can't take deadly aim / ranged trip. (I only plan up to level 10, not sure if we are going to play after this).


Cleru wrote:

I'm not sure what do you needs Quick Draw for at the current level, since you don't have iterative attack. Are you using your moving action for something? Drawing a weapon without Quick Draw is a move action that doesn't provoke AoO. You could also invest in Spiked Gauntlet or Cestus, They do 2 less average damage than the Morningstar but it's always on your hand.

I mostly use it to switch between ranged and melee weapon.

Cleru wrote:


For the vision issue... What about Nightdrops? It's 250gp for 5 uses of 1 hourlong low-light vision.

Nice item I didn't know it, thanks !


Cleru wrote:

What is your traits? You can get low-light vision with a Blood of Dragon race trait. But it's probably easier to buy ioun stone or cast light on your gears.

We don't use traits in this campaign :'( I already cast light every time I need it, but the issue is when stealth is needed and my teammate can move in the dark whithout light but I cannot.

Cleru wrote:


If you can convince your GM to allow you to change feats, I thinks you should get Augment Summoning first. It helps with your melee issue. It makes your summon more durable and it gives you a better detection (tremorsense).

So remove quick draw or precise shot (or both, because augment summoning need spell focus(conjuration)) ? I didn't plan to get quick draw when I first build my character, but in all our first fight I'd really need it :( And I used it a lot since level 3.

For precise shot I didn't use it a lot, only some times when my summons are in melee.


The other big point is the item to buy, there is a lot of things in my wishlist and i can't really decide on the priority ...

- Longbow with conserving enchantment, and magic quiver + lot of different magic arrows.
I love the flavor of a hawkeye-like character with ton of special arrow for every situations, but it's probably going to cost a lot in the long run even with the conserving enchantment (a lot worst without I think) ...

- Morgenstern with anchoring enchantement.
Also mostly for flavor and because immovable rod are awesome, but pretty usefull when the enemy come in melee. But 18k gold for a secondary weapon is probably too much ...

- Special dagguer for assassination (I don't really know exactly, but not something expensive because it's a tertiary weapon)

- Google of night (see first post, I'm the only character without special vision)

- Metamagic rod, silent
As I said i'm oriented thief/scout, so it's a must have and I can probably cut the cost in half with the wizzard

- And of course the other big 5


Secret Wizard wrote:
If your GM allows, you can change into the Sacred Huntsmaster archetype and get an animal companion to frontline for your party.

We are too far in the game to make a change like this. I had considered this possibility when choosing my class but prefered monster tactician for roleplay reason.


beda wrote:


If your GM give you a permition to hire a group of npc. It can solve your problems

Based on my other game with the GM i'd say that we could probably hire some NPC for a specific task or quest, but not just for "following everywhere and protect us". And it's going to cost a lot.

But he is open to the leadership feat, maybe i should consider this ...


Hello everyone, I write here because I want some advice on my character and how to improve it.

I play a lvl 4 human inquisitor (monster tactican archetype) focused on ranged combat who worhsip a good godess of nature (we don't use pathfinder pantheon).

- My stats are 12 Str / 18 Dex / 12 Con / 10 Int / 14 Wis / 8 Cha
I fight with a composite longbow and a morgenstern as secondary weapon. My feats are point blank shot, quick draw and precise shot. I plan to take rapid shot level 5 and many shot level 9. I'd like to take augmented summon but I can't take it before level 11, I don't even know if we are going to play this far ...

- My team is only composed of ranged : alchemist (specialize in throwing bomb), wizzard (evocation) and gunslinger (dual pistol). We try to take advantage of this and plan fight where we stay out of melee, but it don't always work (rarely work in fact :o) And I often have to ditch in melee because the enemy catch me or to save the wizzard or the gunslinger.
This is a big issue because my character is not made for melee fight and I don't want to. But I don't really know how to avoid this situation (I try to do battlefield control with my summoned monster but it's not enough). My summoned monster often get one or two shooted and I don't know how to change that.

- For my skill, I focused on a "party face" with conversion inquisition (use Wis for social skill) and some thief/scout skill.
I maxed intimidate, bluff and stealth and put lot of point in diplomacy, survival and sense motive.

- For my spell list I'll take some must-have buff (divin favor, shield of faith) cure light wound and then utility spell. Mostly for stealth or investigation situation (invisibility, darkness, alarm, bloodhound, disguise self, ...)

- For the roleplay, I serve the godess of the nature (good alignement) but i'm neutral because I often have to do the dirty work. My main goal is to track and destroy the corruption or the evil in the nature. My secondary goal is to protect the nature from some bad humans.
If we encounter some cultist doing evil ritual, some of my teamates want to kill them to loot their magical item, some want to stop them to save the nearest village, some just don't want to take risk and avoid them. I just want to kill. All of them. And i'll try to force my team to help my, using lies or bluff if necessary.
If an enemie flee, i'm going to chase him down and force my team to follow me, or even go alone if necessary.

I also have a strong survival instinct and I don't like to take useless risk. I'll try to avoid danger if possible and can flee from a fight if necessary (to come back stronger and more prepared and finish what I started). The only time where I take risk is for task which serve my godess. The reason for the little "cowardice" is simple : Maybe I could have done a little more good by taking risk, but a dead inquisitor can't serve his diety at all. The longer I stay alive, the more bad guys I can kick out of this world.

So, I'll take any advice, specially on how to avoid enemy to come in melee range of our team or what item I should buy. I know for the big 6 but we are really short in gold, on my list there is the handy havresac, cure light wound wand, + strenght and + Wis item and of course magical bow. Also, any advice on level 7 feat ? (it's going to be spell focus(conjuration) if I want augment summoning level 11 ...) Maybe I can try to talk my GM to change my level 3 feat (quick draw) if necessary, but I often need to change weapon ...

An other important point is that everyone in my party have night vision (and one have darkvision and another one a kind of blindsense abilitie). We often act during night so I can be a big dead weight, I know there is a 3 level spell for this but what are the other option before that ? Permanent darkvision item is too expensive, and potion can became too expensive too if I use a lot of them.


In our previous campaign we had a book with infinite and completely random information (we trade it with a Djin).

Sometimes the PC who take the time to read the book learned usefull things (skill points or feat) but it was quite rare and nearly never fit to the build of the PC :) (we had a wizzard with polearm proficiency :D)
It was also used for the plot once.

Great idea in overall.


Hello everyone, I'm going to play to inquisitor with monster tactician archetype for a god of the nature.
But, the classic summoned monster are pretty limited for combat tactic and absolutely useless out of combat (in our table, they don't understand complex order and are way less smart than animal companion, because they don't have training).

So, we (my GM and I) are going to make a homebrew ability which replace the "summon monster" ability of the monster tactician :

I can bound with specific "animal spirit", and then call this kind of monster. This is going to follow the rule of summon monster but the called monster will behave more like a well trained animal companion. He will be a magical beast that understand my order (but some order can be too complex for them, or they just don't want to do it because it's not in their nature or too dangerous).

I can bound with one "animal spirit" for each level of "summon monster" spell I know, and each time we a spirit on the list of this spell (including all extanded or alternative list and SNA lists).

Moreover, every time I earn a new summons monster spell level, the previous animal will get improvement (upgrade HD, caracteristic, duration or number or add template ... it still need to be defined).

So my questions are :
- Do you think it's worth it ? I restrict a lot my summoning list and thus lose some flexibility. But, my monster will be more usefull and more able for out of combat uses.

- What kind of upgrade can I get for every new level of summon monster spell ?

- And the most important, for the roleplay aspect : How do you think I should "bound" with this spirit. I see it like a contract I have to negotiate with them, and they allow me to use a fraction of their power to summons this monster. But what can I do for them ? Swear to use it in a way that help their goal (I worship a god of nature, but "protect the nature" is not really a precise goal) ?

How and where can I look for / meet this spirit ? I don't want this part to take a lot of time because i'm not the only player ! Or maybe something I can do alone with my GM, but I still need to have break time and I can't travel to specific place during this break.


I'm digging this thread to give an update. I threw the idea of a full ranged team, and they seems to like it. So now we have :

# gunslinger
# alchemist with ranged weapon
# wizard (the blasting kind, with evocation school)
# me (Monster tactician with ranged weapon)

So I think I need to heal the party, but I'm going to do mostly out of combat heal ...

I'm going to take a backup melee weapon but i'm not going to invest feat or expensive enhancement on it (same with the gunslinger).

What kind of combat tactic would you use with this kind of group ?
I mean the basic rule is to kill them before the they can reach melee range, and try to control and slow them (the wizard and alchemist are really usefull for this + the summoned monsters). But how would you do that exactly ?

And if a fighter/barbarian catch one of us in melee, what are the best tactics ?


Yes, I forgot the rule about the teleportation.

But for your second point i can do some task with a speak with animal spell. And some critter like the silvanshee have 10 int and can speak, so i can ask him anything.


For now the 1st level list is the classic list minus the poisonous frog, the dire rat and the viper and with the baboon, the badger and the kangaroo.


The Skeptical Gnome wrote:
You playing a summoner? Or some sort of weird backstory based wizard?

monster tactician

That's why I should summons more "usefull" monster which help me and not just killing machines.

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