Well it is not like haven't seen suggestions used many times before, sometimes in less then a year, sometimes in several years. If they want to make new classes or not, it is up to them. But it never hurts to ask for stuff, worse case scenario it never gets used. Granted new classes take a lot more work then monsters, feats, spells, races, etc. but I have hope that at least some of things I am looking for(and then some) will become reality one day.
Well it is not like haven't seen suggestions used many times before, sometimes in less then a year, sometimes in several years. If they want to make new classes or not, it is up to them. But it never hurts to ask for stuff, worse case scenario it never gets used. Granted new classes take a lot more work then monsters, feats, spells, races, etc. but I have hope that at least some of things I am looking for(and then some) will become reality one day.
I think it's more about the sheer number of suggestions they might receive/read. They could wish to add everything, but hey, a book has its limitations :P
Still, upon re-reading the topic, I'm wondering if any suggestion given here should instead be made into archetypes. I dunno, but if we're just looking to swap class features left and right, isn't that what an archetype is doing in the first place?
For instance, Dragon78, you suggested a Inventor... what prevents it from being an Alchemist archetype? For a "creator" class, the Alchemist often comes out on top, not to mention that an alchemist can take any Item Creation feat if desired. Pretty sure they can replace the mutagen and poison use with item crafting with limited uses based on the extract spell list... and that is if they swap the spell list for the sorcerer list, which they can do :P We've seen spell lists being swapped in the past afterall.
I keep "pestering" people by my sheer dislike for Prestige Classes and how I wish they could be more accessible... well, whadayaknow... what prevent them from replacing the Magus's armor proficiencies and magus arcanas with a sneak attack and ranged legerdemain, calling it "Trickster" as a new archetype?
Yeah, yeah, I know that the hybrid classes can be seen like this, but they do have enough exclusive features that don't mimic other class features to be called classes.
To me, a new class has to literally come with its own rules, like the Occult classes and the Vigilante; those shook up the rules pretty much.
- Inventor/Engineer: Alchemist
- Shapeshifter: Druid or Sorcerer
- Wildling: Brawler... as the Wild Child archetype ;)
- Vivifier: Kineticist, using Positive Energy, as a foil to Void
- Bloodsavant: Magus and even then, there's the Eldritch Scion archetype
- Beastmaster: Hunter
- Defender/Protector: Fighter
- Warlock/Hexer: Magus, with the Hexcrafter archetype ;)
- Soulblade/Mindblade/Spiritblade/Mysticblade: Magus with the Mindblade archetype ;)
- Primalist: Druid, by swapping Wild Shape probably.
Archetypes can change everything, from spell lists, skill points, alignment, so yeah... if new classes are wanted, they'll need to to be so unique that not even archetypes can recreate them.
That's why I suggested the Mystic Theurge as an actual class... unless you can name me an existing 1st-party class that has 2 separate spell lists :P 3rd-party products/editors might have created these, but considering how unavailable they may be in various sessions, they're not sure-fire solutions. No offense though ^_^
That´s right, archetypes can change a lot and we saw a lot of awesome archetypes.
On the other hand, many of those archetypes aren´t exactly what people want or come with a lot of restrictions.
Samurai class and the sword savant archetype come to mind there.
Considering how disappointing most archetypes are and many wishes are too complex for a simple archetype to even come close to what is asked for.
JiCi, Those examples are not even close to what I am asking for. Also I haven't liked a prestige class since dragon disciple.
The inventor/engineer class looks like it will be in Starfinder but if the rules are too different then it will not be worth the work to try to use that one.
Yes, I want a positive energy based element for kineticist, but it would not be an archetype. Though I doubt it will be a great healer option, at least compared to spell casters. The Vivifier would at least be a non-spell casting healing class by base design and there by a good option for a healer.
That´s right, archetypes can change a lot and we saw a lot of awesome archetypes.
On the other hand, many of those archetypes aren´t exactly what people want or come with a lot of restrictions.
Samurai class and the sword savant archetype come to mind there.
Well... yeah... sure, because we can all see what can be wrong with archetypes. Considering the rules, it can be hard for anyone to come up with archetypes that don't break them.
My most irritating gripes are toward both drake-riding archetypes from Legacy of Dragons, because you cannot ride your drake until 13th level ¬_¬;
Considering how disappointing most archetypes are and many wishes are too complex for a simple archetype to even come close to what is asked for.
That... depends on a lot of things. If it's swapping class features from one class to another class, it's rather simple.
JiCi, Those examples are not even close to what I am asking for. Also I haven't liked a prestige class since dragon disciple.
Hey, I didn't say that they would be perfect now, didn't I ;) ?
BTW, your Wildling is said to be raised in the wild and fight with his fists with an animal companion. The Brawler archetype, the Wild Child has this line: "The wild child works with his sworn animal friend to conquer the challenges that lay before them. This kinship could come from being lost in the wilderness and raised by animals or growing up with an exotic pet."
C'mon now, you got to give me credit for being close XD
The inventor/engineer class looks like it will be in Starfinder but if the rules are too different then it will not be worth the work to try to use that one.
We'll have to wait and see. I went with a [very] old Prestige Class called the Gnome Artificer, from Magic of Faerun (yeah, I'm that old XD ). The Artificer literally could craft devices that replicated spells from its own custom spell list, each device using the wand crafting rules.
Without going deeper into the mecanics, I think your inventor would technically work as an archetyped alchemist. Hey, if they can now craft a mecanical mount via the Construct Rider archetype, pretty sure that they could craft more devices ;)
Yes, I want a positive energy based element for kineticist, but it would not be an archetype. Though I doubt it will be a great healer option, at least compared to spell casters. The Vivifier would at least be a non-spell casting healing class by base design and there by a good option for a healer.
First off, if Positive Energy ever becomes a selectable element for the Kineticist, no archetyping would be required ;) Also, this element would need its respective talents, which would possibly be focused on healing, perhaps more than Water currently does, hence not being a spellcasting healer per se. Finally... "positive energy blast"... you cannot ask for a better class than the Kineticist here, dude :P
Even if we get a positive energy based kineticist element I doubt you will get a lot healing power from it. While it should be a lot better then the aether/water options as well as the healing focused archetype. It will never be even close to a spell caster unless they give utility talents that grant channeling(1+con mod/day), lay on hands(3+con mod/day) and/or the healing hexes. Maybe allowing you to heal with your positive energy blast 1/day per person. But I doubt they will give you unlimited healing with your blast.
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I think the problem is that archetypes can only do so much. They are not really a good place to introduce new mechanics, spell lists, or or really radically changed features. So for some people who might just want one or two things "fixed", archetypes are fine. If you want more radical changes, or want a new class that can be reflavored for tons of roles, archetypes don't do as well.
Beastmaster- Martial class with a animal or magical beast companion. Maybe a monk like AC bonus based on charisma.
The Beastmaster in A Fistful of Denarii is a martial character with a druid's animal companion.
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I'd like to see a class, most likely a wizard/summoner hybrid class, where you build your own custom golem. Yeah, I literally want a class with your own golem companion ;)
I know that familiars are often the usual sidekicks for spellcasters, but come on, golems and contructs need some time in the spotlight.
Upgrading your golem with various features, weapons, size upgrades and such :D
Maybe retrofitting the Starfinder robot-builder in some fashion...
Maybe retrofitting the Starfinder robot-builder in some fashion...
True...
I get that there's the Promethean Alchemist alchemist, but... your homunculus doesn't receive any new feature similar to an eidolon's evolutions.
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How about reviving Arcana Evolved0's magister as a wizard archetype?
Or how about a spellsinger class? That is like the bard, but with 9th level spell casting?
A lot more classes that focus on spell powers and/or supernatural abilities would be awesome.
How about reviving Arcana Evolved0's magister as a wizard archetype?
Or how about a spellsinger class? That is like the bard, but with 9th level spell casting?
Wouldn't it make a better Arcanist archetype, given that all Arcana Evolved classes use that mechanic?
Although I suppose it could be a Wizard archetype that uses Arcanist spellcasting, depending on which class provides the best chassis for Magister abilities.
Also, it could provide some frustration for Rogue Genius Games. Several years ago, they published a class called the Magus, some time before Paizo created a very different class with the same name. After Paizo's class was published, Rogue Genius Games renamed their class -- to the Magister. I wonder what their next name for that class would be?
A Buffy like slayer class would have been cool. A class that focuses on one enemy like dragons, undead, giants, etc. and gains special abilities and defenses against them. It would have a more specialized version of favored energy, it could bypass it's chosen foe's DR, gains DR vs it's chosen foe, energy resistance, saves bonuses, immunities, and abilities related to hunting, fighting, and slaying it's chosen foe.
A Buffy like slayer class would have been cool.
Um, I thought the slayer class was based on Buffy.
It's not even close to the Buffy version. In fact a modified monk or brawler would be closer.
Personally, I think an updated and balanced version of 3.5's Dragonfire Adept would be great. All-day breath weapons and at-will SLAs would be cool for a number of reasons, roleplay- and combat-wise.
How did I lose track of this thread. Sorry for the delayed responses.
I literally have that EXACT build for a character I'm getting ready to play in a friend's homebrew.Grond, not sure if you have seen Spheres of Power, but I took a quick look through that to see if I could make a character close to that desired goal.
Mageknight is Full BAB with up to medium armor. This class is very customizable through the Mystic Combat and Combat Feat options. Other than that it is good at resisting magic and can Mark a target to be weaker to her own magic.
At level one you would start with 3 magic talents in total. First pick would be the Death Sphere, next would be Vampiric Strike and Cryptic Strike.
With this you could start making melee attacks that channel a small (1d6 at first level) bit of extra damage that heals you for the same amount. You could only use this particular combo a few times per day at first level, but depending on your particular Tradition you could use this very frequently by 5th level.
Get a chance to play it yet? Hopefully it went well.
I am getting sick of my Paizo wish lists becoming commercials for 3pp.
I know you didn't specifically mention me, but I am guilty of this. I simply want to show people 3rd party solutions to their woes if Paizo doesn't have what they specifically want. Every time I do provide a link, it is always to Paizo's storefront for it.
(It would be rude if I directed them elsewhere since this is there wonderful forum.)I understand there are many reasons people want a Paizo solution to it. (PFS, 1st Party Only) I get it, I really do. I used to do games as Paizo stuff only as well. It was only through my curiosity that I eventually discovered that there are lots of 3PP stuff out there that is just as good as Paizo's, and I merely want to show others the wonders of 3PP products.
Either way, I apologize if this upsets you, but I do this with the best possible intentions that at worst causes people some wasted time in reading.
Thanks for the apology Wraithguard, though your hardly the only one who has done that on this site;)
So, anyone have any more new class ideas?
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I've got a few that I intend to build...
Non-magical healer, like the PoW Medic but more versatile out of combat and able to have various disciplines. Like a precise dex-focused surgeon that can disable you as easy as heal you, or a versatile apothecarist with a solution to any malady but without so much combat ability.
Item-focused non-caster artificer who DOESN'T rely on the Craft rules (but can use them). Lots of magitech/clockpunk gadgets selected like Rogue talents every couple of levels, but a main gadget that you specialise and adapt as your adventures go on with a system similar to Eidolon Evolutions, to mimic great science heroes like The Doctor with his Sonic Screwdriver, with maybe an archetype that allows for some Vigilante-type shenanigans like Ted Kord (Blue Beetle II).
Bloodline-focused character that doesn't get a full BAB or spells, but DOES get a lot of abilities available to her bloodline and some cool utility. Basically a commoner who suddenly wakes up with a bloodline but who isn't Charismatic enough to access its more esoteric powers. Think X-Men, in a way, but with a very Pathfinder feel.
I even have Iconics in mind for all three.
(P.S. I also have many archetypes planned out, like a proper speedster for the Vigilante, that gets in-combat benefits from going fast rather than just having it as an addition like the Monk [a single Ki power notwithstanding].)
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I'd like to see a whole class based around symbolic magic.
Pathfinder has a lot of stuff on the topic, but it's scattered among several classes, archetypes, abilities, feats and prestige classes, not to mention the number of books you'd have to get if you don't want to use online resources.
Off the top of my head: Tattooed Sorcerer, Esoteric Magus, Spontaneous Symbology (Lore ability), Varisian Tattoo/Spell Tattoo, Tattooed Mystic, Arcane Savant, Rune Domain, Sin Runes, Craft Magical Tattoo, Spell Scar Arcana and Runeguard.
As you can see, that's all pretty hard to incorporate into one character as-is, and I bet that I don't even have it all. I think it'd be cool to have a class that focuses entirely on creating symbols and using them for utility, defence and combat. Int-based, of course, with the Orc and Dwarf archetypes changing the stat to Constitution (ability to scar easily) and Wisdom (racial memory more than arcane knowledge).
The base casting mechanic could be similar to the Alchemist, with symbols, runes and tattoos temporarily scribed around your person each morning, for later activation by touch (with the potential to create more esoteric triggers as the class progresses, such as Mage Armor activating when attacked). The class would be heavily focused on defending and counter-attacking, with lots of Fire Shield and Contingency-like effects. It could evoke too, but would be heavily reliant on touch-attacking. Other class abilities include a standard every-second-level talent set called "Flourishes" that allow you to customise and improve your symbols or give you more ways to scribe in-combat. A basic magical Trap Sense/Trapfinding feature works too, so long as it's restricted to symbol-based traps so the Rogue isn't completely overrun. Another feature could be a series of protective glyph-tattoos inscribed permanently onto your body as you progress in level, resulting in a fully customised (and powerful) defensive scrawl all over your body by level 20. Speaking of which, the capstone could be something ridiculous like your knowledge of all written language giving you access to a particularly high-level True Name.
Possible archetypes for this "Sigilist" include a "Card Marker" that could throw cards inscribed with runes for a more ranged offensive feel, or a "Calligraphic Courtier" that focuses on enchantments and illusions based around what he scribes. What about a "Spellsmith" who focuses on Gishing it up with symbol-inscribed weaponry? Domain-using "Holy Iconographers", sanity-breaking "Psychedelic Artists", summoner-like "Pentacle Callers"... the list goes on. It gets even better if you want racial archetypes, like the Orc "Scar Shaman", Dhampir "Crypt Cryptographer" or the Goblin "Word-Slayer"; the Dwarven "Runic Defender" or the Tiefling "Bloodscribe" are good options too, especially when the latter is stacked with the "Pentacle Caller". I think it passes the Archetype test, is all I'm saying.
What do you guys think about this idea? I think it's one niche that needs filling by a proper class.
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I'd like to see a whole class based around symbolic magic.
Pathfinder has a lot of stuff on the topic, but it's scattered among several classes, archetypes, abilities, feats and prestige classes, not to mention the number of books you'd have to get if you don't want to use online resources.
Off the top of my head: Tattooed Sorcerer, Esoteric Magus, Spontaneous Symbology (Lore ability), Varisian Tattoo/Spell Tattoo, Tattooed Mystic, Arcane Savant, Rune Domain, Sin Runes, Craft Magical Tattoo, Spell Scar Arcana and Runeguard.
As you can see, that's all pretty hard to incorporate into one character as-is, and I bet that I don't even have it all. I think it'd be cool to have a class that focuses entirely on creating symbols and using them for utility, defence and combat. Int-based, of course, with the Orc and Dwarf archetypes changing the stat to Constitution (ability to scar easily) and Wisdom (racial memory more than arcane knowledge).
The base casting mechanic could be similar to the Alchemist, with symbols, runes and tattoos temporarily scribed around your person each morning, for later activation by touch (with the potential to create more esoteric triggers as the class progresses, such as Mage Armor activating when attacked). The class would be heavily focused on defending and counter-attacking, with lots of Fire Shield and Contingency-like effects. It could evoke too, but would be heavily reliant on touch-attacking. Other class abilities include a standard every-second-level talent set called "Flourishes" that allow you to customise and improve your symbols or give you more ways to scribe in-combat. A basic magical Trap Sense/Trapfinding feature works too, so long as it's restricted to symbol-based traps so the Rogue isn't completely overrun. Another feature could be a series of protective glyph-tattoos inscribed permanently onto your body as you progress in level, resulting in a fully customised (and powerful) defensive scrawl all over your body by level 20. Speaking of which, the capstone...
I've recently discovered the Dreamscarred Press class Cryptic, which is not far off this design.
I'd like to see a whole class based around symbolic magic.
As you can see, that's all pretty hard to incorporate into one character as-is, and I bet that I don't even have it all. I think it'd be cool to have a class that focuses entirely on creating symbols and using them for utility, defence and combat. Int-based, of course, with the Orc and Dwarf archetypes changing the stat to Constitution (ability to scar easily) and Wisdom (racial memory more than arcane knowledge).
The base casting mechanic could be similar to the Alchemist, with symbols, runes and tattoos temporarily scribed around your person each morning, for later activation by touch (with the potential to create more esoteric triggers as the class progresses, such as Mage Armor activating when attacked). The class would be heavily focused on defending and counter-attacking, with lots of Fire Shield and Contingency-like effects. It could evoke too, but would be heavily reliant on touch-attacking. Other class abilities include a standard every-second-level talent set called "Flourishes" that allow you to customise and improve your symbols or give you more ways to scribe in-combat. A basic magical Trap Sense/Trapfinding feature works too, so long as it's restricted to symbol-based traps so the Rogue isn't completely overrun. Another feature could be a series of protective glyph-tattoos inscribed permanently onto your body as you progress in level, resulting in a fully customised (and powerful) defensive scrawl all over your body by level 20. Speaking of which, the capstone...
I'd could see a niche for something like this, but I would prefer it not be limited to just tattoos, and maybe also pull a bit from the old Archivist class from 3.5
Now with the announcement of the Shifter class for the upcoming Ultimate Wilderness hardcover book, I can say at least one concept I have been wanting will be covered. In fact depending how the class actually turns out maybe more then one concept I have been looking for.
I would love to see a true skill focused class.
-10+Int skill points
-bonus feats such as skill focus, alertness, extra traits, cosmopolitan, etc.
-All skills are class skills.
-Can use any skill untrained.
-Has x/day re-roll ability with skills.
-Gets bonus skill tricks.
-Can do more with skills then standard classes.
-Gets to add 1/2 level to a select number of skills it chooses.
-Can use some skills quicker then normal and/or without penalty.
-Ability to take 10 on skill checks that you normally can't.
-Ability to take 20 on skills checks x/day.
I doubt it does but it would be cool if Planar Adventures has a new class as well. If not maybe the next themed book.
I would like to see more psychic classes like telepath, empath, psychic warrior, psychic thief, esper, etc.
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I've had this idea/concept for a class or group of classes that I can't of a name of, so my friends and me have given it a joke named called the Prestigerererer or Prestiger.
The idea is to expand on Prestige Classes and VMCs. If its a series of classes, they'll be named like Apprentice that gives Arcane spells, Novitiate/Neophyte for Divine spells, Squire/Disciple for Martial skills, Warden for nature-based stuff, Esper for Psychic spells, Factotum/Abettor for skills.
Otherwise if it's just a single class, well, other than Prestiger. And the different types of Prestigers would be split into "paths" or "specializations", or even archetypes.
The idea is that these classes have very barebones progression, they take on a VMC from any other class to fill in, and then they take on a prestige class. All the prestige classes will have special lowered prerequisites for the prestigerer class/classes which can work for both multiclassing and it's class feature.
The idea behind the class is to make a way to pseudo-gestalt a normal and prestige class. Allow more people to use prestige classes, and create more VMCs. The story behind it could be like a person learning under a veteran experienced adventurer.
- Other ideas was a hybrid class Investigator/Ranger which would study corpses or residue of creature and attune his equipment/magics to the type. He could only perform this a limited times per day but lasted until he changed it. So different types of creature he would be attuned to.
- Someone already suggested doing something with Occult Rituals, I think that'd be cool. It would be cool to have more ways to use them.
Investigator + Ranger could make a bounty hunter.
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1. Unchained Ninja.
2. Carpet Vagabond (cavalier/synthicist/bard/gunslinger/? hybrid which begins play with a battered-condition, animal-level-intelligent flying construct only he can initially operate, and only barely. It is summonable as per paladin mount (i.e., cannot be permanently stolen or destroyed). Advancing in the class improves and evolves its abilities, such as utilizing it as a cloak to Vanish.)
Myrmidon: Backcross hybrid between Fighter with Magus that comes from the Fighter side (complementing Myrmidarch Magus, that comes from the Magus side). Full BAB, d10, 4/9 Intelligenc-based prepared arcane spellcasting off the Magus spell list, keeps Armor Training and Weapon Training (but gets them at longer intervals than Fighter), Arcane Pool, Spell Combat, Spellstrike, and Spell Recall (not Improved Spell Recall), and gets a few Arcana (which can include a large subset of Magus Arcana), keeps full Fighter Training, and gets Bonus Combat Feats more often than a Magus but less often than a Fighter. Pretends that Child of Acavna and Amaznen was a bad dream that didn't really happen.
Sample archetypes:
Arcane Archer: Does for Myrmidon what Eldritch Archer does for Magus.
Arcane Fist: Hybrid of Myrmidon with Unchained Monk. To avoid being bad or MAD, also changes the spellcasting to be Wisdom-dependent (but gets a bit more skill ranks to compensate).
Flamboyant Myrmidon: Hybrid of Myrmidon with Swashbuckler -- gets Panache, some Deeds, and Swashbuckler's Finesse, and modifies Spell Combat to work with Dex-to-Damage feats.
Hexcrafter: Same idea for Myrmidon as Hexcrafter for Magus.
Spellthrower: Alters Spell Combat and Spellstrike to work with ranged attacks, but rather than greatly preferring a pack of ammunition (the way the Card Caster Magus does), instead is designed to work efficiently with thrown (even fairly large) weapons.
Survivalist: Hybrid of Myrmidon with Ranger -- hearkens back to the 1st Edition AD&D Ranger that casts both arcane and divine spells, although not very many of either.
So... trades bravery and half its bonus feats for 4/9 spellcasting, arcane pool, spell combat, spellstrike, and spell recall.
Hm.
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I still hope to one day see a spontaneous cha based 9th level caster with the druid's spell list. Basically the sorcerer/oracle version of the druid class with some interesting mechanics of it's own. Maybe a totem animal as it's version of a bloodline/mystery.
^That probably should have been a feature of Feyspeaker Druid.
It should have been but was changed before the book came out:( But I still want a full class like that instead of just an archetype.
I still hope to one day see a spontaneous cha based 9th level caster with the druid's spell list. Basically the sorcerer/oracle version of the druid class with some interesting mechanics of it's own. Maybe a totem animal as it's version of a bloodline/mystery.
I almost never agree with you, but this right here is your best idea yet.
I still hope to one day see a spontaneous cha based 9th level caster with the druid's spell list. Basically the sorcerer/oracle version of the druid class with some interesting mechanics of it's own. Maybe a totem animal as it's version of a bloodline/mystery.I almost never agree with you, but this right here is your best idea yet.
Yeah I agree...I could see taking a totem/spirit animal direction as being a good angle to build a class around.
^That probably should have been a feature of Feyspeaker Druid.
Yes it should have been....
TBH I doubt whether there will be any new classes for quite a few years (if at all). Already a few of the existing hybrid classes were debatable in terns of being able to justify an entire new class.
And no disresepct to those involved but loads of the suggestions I've seen just dont carve out a sufficient enough niche to be distinct, failing IMO on the key criteria for a new class.
The new Wildshaper class definitely has a niche and I can see development potential regarding archetypes, but I just cant see Paizo doing anymore.
Yeah captain yesterday, it is how I wish the shaman class was designed. Maybe one day I will see such a class from Paizo.