A class based around extreme jumping, flying constantly by level 10 is common but for some reason paizo make it extremely difficult to leap a 20 foot wall.
It could have archtype's that range from the Final Fantasy Dragoon that lets it charge with a lancing jump as a full action, to the monk jumping from roof to roof to the jungle man/girl.
I love looking through this thread to see if their is an interesting idea that I could NOT accomplish with a 3rd party class or system.
Spoiler for length.
-A non-spell casting healing class.
Scholar from Spheres of Might (not out yet but this class can be an awesome in and out of combat medic. Medic from Dreamscarred would work well as well.
-The druid version of the sorcerer/oracle type class.
Marc Radle has that right.
-Full martial psychic based class.
Mageknight, take the appropriate drawbacks, pick talents to get what abilities you want.
-Inventor/Tinker class maybe with construct companion.
A few options here. Machinesmith provides most of what you would want I think. Engineer if you want a different take on it.
-Tarzan/Jungle Girl martial class.
An archetype mentioned above takes care of those. That is Paizo made, though not in a traditional source.
-Martial hex using witch themed class.
Malefactor brings a fresh take to a spreader of ill-omen without being a copy paste of the Hexblade from 3.5.
-Bloodline focused class.
This has everything you need, along with a few more bloodlines.
-Martial class with animal/magical beast companion.
Take a few feats from spheres of power and ANYONE can summon a companion to tag along.
-Dragon rider/dragon master type class.
Dragonrider. Easy one there.
-Arcane/Divine versions of the spell power/supernatural power class.
I'm not really sure what you mean by this. Sounds like a generalist caster. Incanter from Spheres of Power can give you a bunch of talents to use to do whatever you want. Maybe a Reaper?
-Super defense focused martial class.
Sentinel in Spheres of Might.Warder could do this well. Unless a defense focused class can make itself a threat, it may get ignored completely in combat, which sorta makes it boring and pointless.
-Non-spell casting psychic class(es) focused on things like telepathy, empathy, etc.
A few feats worth of stuff in Spheres of Power can do that.
-Art/painting/sculpting focused class.
Art based classes: Primordial Dancer. Protean Scribe. Prodigy as well.
Of course, if you want to just have a casting tradition focused on that, Spheres of Power can do that.
-Mime/mimic themed class.
Troubadour from Spheres of Might.
-Magic absorbing/stealing/deflecting/dispelling class.
Trickster in the New Paths Compendium.
-Monster/blue mage themed class.
This is an idea that works great in video games but I'm not sure it works great for Pathfinder. If I were to create a character that used the dirty tricks monsters use , I'd probably be a Shifter from Spheres of Power that picks up a variety of talents to gain special abilities and movement types.
-Ki focused class like a ki master or ki caster.
Sage from Spheres of Might uses ki for lots of different things. Combat, magic, healing; all depends on the specialization.
-Luck based class, maybe a jester class.
Luckbringer.
-Class that uses money as a weapon/defense like a merchant class.
All I think of when I read this is the Merchant from Ragnarok Online or the 'Gil Toss' stuff from Final Fantasy games. Every martial class uses 'money' to kill things. That money just looks like weapons.
-A song mage class that completely focuses on bardic music.
Spheres of Power tradition. Pick whatever caster chassis you want.
NoTongue; Spheres of Might has you covered.
Since the vivifier is conduit of the positive energy plane then it's abilities would be supernatural and spell like, maybe from a pool of "life points". Besides I would love a non-divine and non-spellcasting class that got channel and lay on hands. If not it's own class then a really well done positive energy based kineticist element.
I would love a 9th level cha based spontaneous caster with the druid spell list. Maybe some kind of totem animal/spirit for it's bloodline/mystery/domain type focus. I really wish this what the shaman was like.
In Homebrew I started an attempt to make a Spontaneous Druid. Uses Charisma too. It's called the Herbalist.
A Final fantasy style dragoon type would be cool it would also be a good class to make spears a lot more effective.
^Every time I hear about dragoons I keep thinking of something like Protoss Dragoons . . . hmmmm . . . maybe a prestige class in which you overcome a terrible lasting injury by becoming part-living, part-construct?
Late to the party, haven't looked at the entire thread, but I want a "mimic" class that doesn't do exactly what other classes do, functioning more inverse bards that draw power and inspiration from the rest of the party. Fight alongside the Fighter, assist the skillmonkeys, awaken unexpected magical abilities...
Something not unlike the Final Fantasy Mime/Mimic class.
Yeah Cranky, that is on my list as well;)
Outside of the Shifter, what else do you think fills a missing niche?of the obvious empty holes, the shifter fills one. The vigilante fills the "spy" class niche I've always felt needed filling.
The construct buddy is really the last obvious concept I can easily imagine that could work as a class allowing lots of archetypes and which work in existing Pathfinder. On the other hand, there have been many unique niches that I didn't identify before there release, like the Investigator for instance.
The way to approach is this is by imagining the overall class family tree.... Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, Wizard starting at the roots and work your way up.
I was sceptical of the Vigilante at first.... I still am due to the fact that it can depending on the build step on all manner of toes, but I accept the 'Batman' class was a niche that hadnt been filled.
The Investigator is the 'Sherlock Holmes' class so I can see the logic, but again things can get blurry with other classes depending on the build. But it did represent a 'gap in the market'...
Other missing niches could be...
-A non-spell casting healing class.
-The druid version of the sorcerer/oracle type class.
-Full martial psychic based class.
-Inventor/Tinker class maybe with construct companion.
-Tarzan/Jungle Girl martial class.
-Martial hex using witch themed class.
-Bloodline focused class.
-Martial class with animal/magical beast companion.
-Dragon rider/dragon master type class.
-Arcane/Divine versions of the spell power/supernatural power class.
-Super defense focused martial class.
-Non-spell casting psychic class(es) focused on things like telepathy, empathy, etc.
-Art/painting/sculpting focused class.
-Mime/mimic themed class.
-Magic absorbing/stealing/deflecting/dispelling class.
-Monster/blue mage themed class.
-Ki focused class like a ki master or ki caster.
-Luck based class, maybe a jester class.
-Class that uses money as a weapon/defense like a merchant class.
-A song mage class that completely focuses on bardic music.
No disrespect but sooo many of those IMO are just non starters.
We're talking about NEW CLASSES not vaguely plausible archetypes.
I mean come on...a Merchant class?!?!?.... How does he kill monsters??... "By the power of my property portfolio I petrify you!!".... Swift action..."I dazzle the ogre with the blingness of my Rolex!"
I've actually given this subject a HUGE amount of thought over the years (as you might expect!). I think gaps include a spontaneous-style druid of some kind; an armor-less, non-weapon using, heavy spell caster style cleric; a warlock-style class, etc
My gut feel is that a spont druid in PF is unlikely as sooooo much water has gone under the bridge in terms of class releases. At least with the Oracle it was released pretty swiftly after the cleric so has been supported for a long time.
From people who claim to be ITK whom Ive chatted to at a couple of conventions there is a deep rooted opposition in Paizo to a Priest style class (eg your 3PP version) so I cant see that happening either. It could be just talk but with it being such an obvious gap and nothing having been done, Im inclined to believe it.
Looks like youve got the market cornered Marc!! :))
I think it is possible to get a merchant class along with the princess, jester, artist, gambler, dancer, mime, and unchained commoner in the "Ultimate Weirdness" book;)
I think if you take a step back and look at Pathfinder through the lens of the fantasy genre, really the only thing missing mechanically is a "Warmage." Like, a class that shoots magic at people all day. Doesn't run out. Adds a stat to damage. Doesn't even matter if they get spells in the traditional sense. Basically the Kineticist but not awful, and less "avatar," more arcane. I know this is lacking, because well over half the people I introduce to Pathfinder are like "I want to shoot stuff with Magic" (and these are adults, not children, btw) and I'm like, "okay, well, this how you do that..." And then they say "oh. Never mind." So yeah. A magic shooter. Like archery, but from magic. Again, spells are irrelevant. Just magical damage dealers from range.
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Looks like youve got the market cornered Marc!! :))
I've actually given this subject a HUGE amount of thought over the years (as you might expect!). I think gaps include a spontaneous-style druid of some kind; an armor-less, non-weapon using, heavy spell caster style cleric; a warlock-style class, etc
Ha! We've absolutely tried our best!!
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... a class that shoots magic at people all day. Doesn't run out. Adds a stat to damage. Doesn't even matter if they get spells in the traditional sense. Basically the Kineticist but not awful, and less "avatar," more arcane. I know this is lacking, because well over half the people I introduce to Pathfinder are like "I want to shoot stuff with Magic" (and these are adults, not children, btw) and I'm like, "okay, well, this how you do that..." And then they say "oh. Never mind." So yeah. A magic shooter. Like archery, but from magic. Again, spells are irrelevant. Just magical damage dealers from range.
If you are OK with material from companies other than Paizo, there is the Warlock class in the soon to be released New Paths Compendium harcover
I love the kineticist, I see no need for the "warlock" or similar classes. As for the "warmage", never was big on that one. In fact most of the classes from 3.0/3.5 were not very good. Though some had a few interesting mechanics but as classes as a whole, not so much.
Just to provide another option Mbertorch, have you checked out Spheres of Power. If you are curious in a well received 3rd party magic system, check it out.
This site can serve as a reference for it.
I love the kineticist, I see no need for the "warlock" or similar classes. As for the "warmage", never was big on that one. In fact most of the classes from 3.0/3.5 were not very good. Though some had a few interesting mechanics but as classes as a whole, not so much.
Agree to disagree then.
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In fact I would love more classes like the kineticist as in a class that is completely focused on spell powers and/or supernatural powers. If the kineticist is psychic magic based then arcane and divine versions would be interesting.
Arcane- Instead of choosing an element you choose a single school of magic and get a limited number of at will spell abilities and some utility and defensive abilities related to your school of magic. So if you chose evocation then you could get an at will magic missile, constant mage armor spell effect, and a few cantrips or at least cantrip like abilities. Later levels you could choose fireball, ice storm, wall of force, etc.
Divine- For this one maybe you choose a deity(or single domain/divine concept) and gain various powers based on the deity. Like if you chose Desna you could gain enhanced movement, luck bonuses, limited teleportation, create a blast of holy or chaotic energy, constant freedom of movement effect, throw starknives made of energy, flight, survive in a vacuum/space, sleep based powers, etc.
In fact I would love more classes like the kineticist as in a class that is completely focused on spell powers and/or supernatural powers. If the kineticist is psychic magic based then arcane and divine versions would be interesting.
Arcane- Instead of choosing an element you choose a single school of magic and get a limited number of at will spell abilities and some utility and defensive abilities related to your school of magic. So if you chose evocation then you could get an at will magic missile, constant mage armor or shield spell effect, and a few cantrips or at least cantrip like abilities. Later levels you could choose fireball, ice storm, wall of force, etc.
Divine- For this one maybe you choose a deity(or single domain/divine concept) and gain various powers based on the deity. Like if you chose Desna you could gain enhanced movement, luck bonuses, limited teleportation, create a blast of holy or chaotic energy, constant freedom of movement effect, throw starknives made of energy, flight, survive in a vacuum/space, sleep based powers, etc.
The Kineticist is awesome, don't get me wrong. Just underpowered.
{. . .}
I mean come on...a Merchant class?!?!?.... How does he kill monsters??... "By the power of my property portfolio I petrify you!!".... Swift action..."I dazzle the ogre with the blingness of my Rolex!"
Actually, a prestige class like this already came out quite a while ago in Paths of Prestige.
Technical note: I didn't say that it is good. I just said that it exists, and is not 3rd party.
I think the problem with a dedicated priest class is that the existing cleric would make it difficult to balance properly. It's really something you need to set up as part of your baseline
I love the kineticist, I see no need for the "warlock" or similar classes. As for the "warmage", never was big on that one. In fact most of the classes from 3.0/3.5 were not very good. Though some had a few interesting mechanics but as classes as a whole, not so much.Agree to disagree then.
The Binder from 3.5 is vastly superior to the neutered medium.
The factotum was a great class and I feel it stands out a lot more from the Investigator which doesn't really stand out as far as class features go.
The Kineticist vs Warlock is 50/50, the Warlock did powers right, you had interesting options all the way through, Kineticist has many dull options with most elements getting nothing of interest until mid-late game, on the other hand the Kineticist actually makes a go at combat, the Warlock sucked at that.
MMCJawa, how would the cleric make a dedicated priest class difficult to balance?
I don't like the way the existing Cleric was made (actually ported), but it should still be possible to make a Priest class that trades out combat prowess/toughness for more class features. Note: NOT Adamant Entertainment's Priest, which instead trades for more spellcasting, including free Knowledge Domain -- instead, something more like a divine Arcanist (I could have sworn that somebody posted in another thread that a different 3rd party publisher did something like this, but now I can't remember who, or the name of the class).
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I would like the priest class to get more options/abilities that fit their chosen deity.
(I could have sworn that somebody posted in another thread that a different 3rd party publisher did something like this, but now I can't remember who, or the name of the class).
This?
Though a unchained cleric could also serve my purposes if done right as well.
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(I could have sworn that somebody posted in another thread that a different 3rd party publisher did something like this, but now I can't remember who, or the name of the class).This?
The Priest class from Kobold Press was what I was thinking as well ...
But now that I think about it unchained classes would be a different wish list.
The Priest class from Kobold Press was what I was thinking as well ...(I could have sworn that somebody posted in another thread that a different 3rd party publisher did something like this, but now I can't remember who, or the name of the class).This?
Yeah, I think that's the one. I don't have it (and they didn't put it online) to be sure, though.
I would love to see Paizo's version of the godling classes from Rogue Genius games. I know making them canon would potential change Golarion forever, but DAMN, it's my favorite class!
Now that I think about it none of the classes focus on creating/using traps, puzzles, mazes, etc. Except maybe a few archetypes based on traps.
I know there are several different ways to build this already, with multiclassing and prestige classes, but I would love to see a 20 level Wizard/Rogue type character. Something like an Arcane Trickster, but where you have some minor spellcasting and Rogue abilities right at level one. Almost like an arcane version of an Inquisitor. Maybe they get up to 6th level spells by level 17 or 19 or so.
I was really hoping this would be one of the classes in the Advanced Class Guide, but no such luck. (That's still an excellent book, though).
I think the problem with a dedicated priest class is that the existing cleric would make it difficult to balance properly. It's really something you need to set up as part of your baseline
Actually I think that is the prob with a poss spont druid class.... too much design has gone on since the druid to enable a spont version. As I said, the Oracle was established quickly after the Cleric so the 2 have evolved side by side.
A new D6 'Priest' class wouldnt have that problem as the entire mechanics could be changed in comparison to the cleric.
But it ain't happening... I have head whispers from several ITKers that a D6 divine class has been opposed since Day 1 at Paizo.
The Priest class from Kobold Press was what I was thinking as well ...(I could have sworn that somebody posted in another thread that a different 3rd party publisher did something like this, but now I can't remember who, or the name of the class).This?
Briefly saw a mates copy of that and although it was solid good, I completely agree with one or two of the reviews - it didnt go far enough. The design still smells like an archetype (albeit in-depth).
Why did you hang out to the channeling!?!?
For a D6 Priest class to work, IMO domains, channeling and spont heal/harm have to be left to the cleric AS WELL AS change the base mechanics (ie BAB, armour....etc).
NOW youve freed up a whole load of design space to start a new class.....
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I would prefer a d6 priest class to have channeling though depending on the deity/domains what you channel would very so the healing domain gives positive energy, death domain gives negative energy, fire domain gives fire damage(maybe heal anything with the fire subtype), etc. Also giving them lay on hands(with mercies) as an option as well. They could start with two domains but gain up to two more as they level. As for spontaneous casting I think they should be able to spontaneously cast any domain spell instead of always cure spells.
^Close to my thoughts.
I think the problem with a dedicated priest class is that the existing cleric would make it difficult to balance properly. It's really something you need to set up as part of your baselineActually I think that is the prob with a poss spont druid class.... too much design has gone on since the druid to enable a spont version. As I said, the Oracle was established quickly after the Cleric so the 2 have evolved side by side.
Why would design since the Druid cause problems for a spontaneous archetype? After all, we a prepared casting archetype of Inquisitor (normally spontaneous) long after the Inquisitor, and although it doesn't get much mention on these boards, it doesn't seem terrible, except that the image of whacking your enemies with your spellbook makes it hard to take seriously.
A new D6 'Priest' class wouldnt have that problem as the entire mechanics could be changed in comparison to the cleric.
But it ain't happening... I have head whispers from several ITKers that a D6 divine class has been opposed since Day 1 at Paizo.
Any reason given for such opposition?
I would also like to know the reason they would be opposed to the idea of a d6 divine class?
I don't see how a spontaneous druid class being done would cause any kind of issue.
Classes I want from Paizo:
New Hybrids:
* Witch/Ninja (Think "Kubo and the Two Strings")
* Monk/Gunslinger (Think gun-kata Grammaton Clerics from "Equilibrium", no idea how this would fit into Golarion canon but I still want it! And I've seen several takes on this already, but so far they all came up very short.)
* Bard/Summoner (His performances and art come alive, literally. Probably a psychic caster, call it the 'Savant' or something. Different specializations based on Perform/Artistry medium, like Mysteries but for his art-summoned creature's abilities. Painting, Sculpture, Dance, Oratory, etc.)
Other classes:
* A Luck/Time based class that's all about rerolls and action economy. (Luckbringer and Time Thief are great, but the first can be plain broken, while the second is a bit underwhelming unless multiclassed, when it too becomes broken.)
* A portal-based quasi-caster. (Uses portals for movement, attacking, incoming attack redirection, battlefield control/repositioning). Could also have summoning/planar travel, but mostly focused on same-plane portals.)
* Mime quasi-caster (force effects based on level, emulation of abilities, can go unnoticed, Catch Off-Guard *the class*)
* Monster Chef (buffs allies with meals, salvages ingredients for special buffs from enemies and should also be able to purchase them/gather plant-based ones in urban/undead-centric campaigns, asking for oversized cutlery weapons is probably too much?)
Uhh, that's all I can think of for now.
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I would really like to see new versions of the Samurai and Ninja classes.
Samurai
-Don't try to make them historically accurate, go with the fantasy version.
-Give then ki powers they can use through their katana.
-Let them cut through magical barriers, create cutting waves of air, flame blast, rain of cherry blossoms to grant allies concealment, force blast, etc.
-Give them uncanny dodge/improved uncanny dodge and stalwart.
-Give them a good will save as well fort.
Ninja
-Keep the charisma based ki powers.
-Get rid of sneak attack but give them set precision damage like a swashbuckler or let them inflict status ailments/ability damage instead.
-Give them a charisma based monk AC bonus.
-Give them different combat paths like speed path grants dex to damage and increased mobility, power path grants strength focused combat feats and better weapon prof., endurance path grants defensive abilities, ki path grants more ki and ki powers, etc.
-Give them evasion(no later then level 5).
Why would design since the Druid cause problems for a spontaneous archetype? After all, we a prepared casting archetype of Inquisitor (normally spontaneous) long after the Inquisitor, and although it doesn't get much mention on these boards, it doesn't seem terrible, except that the image of whacking your enemies with your spellbook makes it hard to take seriously.
But thats my point you're talking about an archetype (and yes it is a bit ridiculous!)..... and Im talking about a new class. Could you make a new class based around a prepared Inquisitor??.... Me thinks not!
I just think too many classes have pinched stuff from the Druid.... the time for a spont version was at the time the Oracle was released, or in a worst case scenario in the ACG as a hybrid Druid/Witch (which IMO would have made a better Shaman concept)
Any reason given for such opposition?
The main ones I heard were
1) Purely old skool historical - ie) Divine = D8
2) Concerns over power levels
3) Paizo = pro-arcane
One or two ITKers also put forward the slightly wider perespective that Paizo is slowly winding down PF in favor Starfinder, which I definitely believed.
Granted you could argue that 1 and 3 are similar reasons but they were believable (especially when you see such freak shows as Pact Wizard!!) Reason 2 is believable but simultaneously non-sensical, since 'Power level' is a direct function of class design.....aka Overpowered = Poorly designed.
To be honest its prob a combo of all 3.... But they were ALL adamant that it WILL NOT happen. Not even an 'Unchaining'. And when you look at the numerous opportunities that Paizo have had to do it (despite the numerous 3PP products available).... its highly believable IMO.
#1 makes sense from a historical perspective, but doesn't make sense from a design perspective.
#2 has already been blown through just by having d8, 3/4 BAB, 9/9 divine casting.
#3 actually DOESN'T make sense in light of #2 above.
Well if the good people at Paizo don't want something in their game, they will not make it. Only time will tell what new classes we will eventually see.
Arcane- Arcanist, Bard, Bloodrager, Magus, Skald, Sorcerer, Summoner, Witch, Wizard
Divine- Cleric, Druid, Hunter, Inquisitor, Oracle, Paladin, Ranger, Shaman, Warpriest
Psychic- Medium, Mesmerist, Occultist, Psychic, Spiritualist
Could use (four) more psychic caster classes;)
The Soulblade mentioned in the OP sounds similar to a third-party Fighter archetype, the Swordsmith. It loses armor and weapon training and mastery, but at level 3 they can pick a weapon they've crafted and give it bonuses every other level for free. They also get Master Craftsman for free at level 5 and while they lose the bonus feat at level one, they still get all the others. I'd like that to be a real class, though maybe with a few more class features. The Blade of Legend at level 3 would have to be scaled back for balance though as it not only gets you a magic weapon for free, but adds the enhancements to your Will, Reflex, and Charisma checks.