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I do not know if this is a sort of corner case or not, but there are those of us who can not make the local main game day, but can make some of the other days. What this means is that we might only be able to participate twice a month or so, in total. If such a case is relatively common, then I could see it as an argument for why such a change might be a good thing.
Venture-Captain, Minnesota
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Alright, I'll bite.
I'm considered a fairly frequent GM locally. I GM 1-3 times a month. In general I have a hard time getting those GM credits on a single character because I split GM credits amongst my characters. I have good reasons for doing this.
Often, I'm splitting up my credits because:
- I don't want to GM through an entire level of a character, and miss learning how that character works now with its new abilities
- My boyfriend and I do paired builds. I don't want my character to leap too far ahead of its partner.
- Sometimes it's because I want that adventure as part of my character's story.
I would not mind a partial credit option!
Hmm
Alright, I'll bite.
I'm considered a fairly frequent GM locally. I GM 1-3 times a month. In general I have a hard time getting those GM credits on a single character because I split GM credits amongst my characters. I have good reasons for doing this.
Often, I'm splitting up my credits because:
- I don't want to GM through an entire level of a character, and miss learning how that character works now with its new abilities
- My boyfriend and I do paired builds. I don't want my character to leap too far ahead of its partner.
- Sometimes it's because I want that adventure as part of my character's story.
I would not mind a partial credit option!
Hmm
As a side note you can slow track if you don't want to level to quickly.
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I split my GM credits on a variety of characters, too, mostly because I'd rather play my PCs than level them up using GM credits. I don't mind picking up 2-3 GM credits on a character to get through the low levels quickly, but I rarely put GM credits on PC's over level 3, other than to get a specific boon from the sheet.
Just for reference, I'm a 3 star GM, and I don't think any of my characters has 5 GM credits, dating back 4 years, not just on the current faction cards.
Edit: Here's another, related thought: How about letting us get the faction reward for this if we GM a game without getting a chronicle? ie If you GM the same adventure 3 times, you can still only apply a chronicle to a character the first time, but the other two could still count towards this faction reward? We've debated for years giving a reward (beyond GM stars) for GMing the same adventure a second (or more) time, and this could be it.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Minnesota—Minneapolis
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I like the idea as well.
On characters over 2nd level, I have started half-tracking the GM credit. As others said, I want to play the characters! I've spread my GM credits over several characters. I think that I only have one that has gotten the two credits, with another very close.
Perhaps they can do this change for the Season 8 cards?
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I agree, this would be nice. A 2 box / 3 box breakdown could help entice players to GM more (insofar as anything on a faction card can entice a player...).
Just to report some personal anecdotal evidence, I've got one character who has filled out all five boxes on a card and, if I'm remembering correctly, two characters who are one checkbox away. One of those characters is 11th level and I need to get him some GM credit before he goes into pseudo-retirement or else I can't scratch my completionist itch...
This is, however, out of about 16 characters at this point and it's going back to Season 6. And I've been GMing a fair amount over the past two years...
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How about letting us get the faction reward for this if we GM a game without getting a chronicle? ie If you GM the same adventure 3 times, you can still only apply a chronicle to a character the first time, but the other two could still count towards this faction reward? We've debated for years giving a reward (beyond GM stars) for GMing the same adventure a second (or more) time, and this could be it.
I'm new to PFS, been playing since January, and after looking at the faction rewards I thought it would be fun to maybe GM. But I didn't know if I wanted to seeing as I would have to apply five different credits for a single faction reward. If you could split it up or GM a scenario more than once to get your credit is very appealing and seems like it would be easier to pull off .
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I hate to disagree as everyone else seems to be on the same page, but I really don't like the idea. It takes 5 because it's worth 2 of the other boons a few of which can take a few scenarios to complete. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask people to GM five slots to finish a task that's worth twice as much. Dropping it to 3 for 1 might be ok, but breaking it up is kind of worthless as it would still technically be the same number of boxes for the same amount of credit. Also, you can fully complete the Faction cards without the two points from the GM task so it really becomes your choice if those two points that you COULD use, but don't need are worth earning. I've seen plenty of GM's assign pure GM credit for the first couple of levels either to make them more survivable or so they can acquire something they wanted for their concept that couldn't be achieved at creation. So once again accomplishing this task doesn't seem unreasonable. I understand the OP's point here as I spread GM credit around as well, but the whole proposal sounds like a case of "Hey this cool free option you gave me isn't good enough."
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I hate to disagree as everyone else seems to be on the same page, but I really don't like the idea. It takes 5 because it's worth 2 of the other boons a few of which can take a few scenarios to complete. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask people to GM five slots to finish a task that's worth twice as much. Dropping it to 3 for 1 might be ok, but breaking it up is kind of worthless as it would still technically be the same number of boxes for the same amount of credit. Also, you can fully complete the Faction cards without the two points from the GM task so it really becomes your choice if those two points that you COULD use, but don't need are worth earning. I've seen plenty of GM's assign pure GM credit for the first couple of levels either to make them more survivable or so they can acquire something they wanted for their concept that couldn't be achieved at creation. So once again accomplishing this task doesn't seem unreasonable. I understand the OP's point here as I spread GM credit around as well, but the whole proposal sounds like a case of "Hey this cool free option you gave me isn't good enough."
No, I think it is more, "Hey, great cool free option. Would it be possible to make it work a little differently for those of us who GM under either restrictions (once a month) or spread our GM credits out amongst lots-and-lots (tm) of PCs?" Or both...
Note: I forget to fill out the cards on either side of the screen, just lazy on it, I guess, but I currently have 38 PFS PCs setup, all but maybe one or two of them with at least one chronicle. Most of them, by now, have enough credit, from before-the-cards, to be at least 2nd level; and many of them have credit from various evergreens, due to local issues.
Took me over a year to find which PC had my GM Stars Boon Chronicle. And I have to go looking again, since I forgot, again. "Which PC number am I using purely to put Emerald Spire GM credits on?" I had to look it up, and it appears to be my -29. Yeesh. Someday I am going to actualy build him further than the "He's a Human Bard." stage...
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Dropping it to 3 for 1 might be ok, but breaking it up is kind of worthless as it would still technically be the same number of boxes for the same amount of credit.
Breaking it up isn't worthless.
As people are saying, its pretty rare to use 6 DM credit all on the same character: it gets spread around because people want to play the character.
Its also a far more achievable goal for a new DM. DMing 3 times is dm once now, once next week, and once at.. some other point. Dming 6 times would be a 3 month commitment if you play bi weekly.
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Well you only have to GM 5 times not 6, and there's no need to do it all in one block. You can spread it out as the character levels. Which for the purposes of playing the character is better anyway because you wouldn't be committing the entirety of any one level to GM credit. Also, I don't think it should be more achievable. Its worth twice as much specifically because it takes more of a commitment to achieve. If you want to make it easier to achieve that's fine, but in my opinion I think you should take the second point completely out of the equation rather than breaking it up because you weren't willing to meet the requirements necessary to earn that other point.
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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I find the current system to work reasonably well if you don't spread GM credit around too many PCs; I currently have 10 PCs and several will achieve this goal soon. It takes some dedication to achieve, so that makes it a bit "harder", but I think that's fair because it's a wildcard goal that allows you to bypass some of the "impossible" goals (faction switch, or a rare encounter/item drop that never seems to happen to the right PC).
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I guess it comes down to the question of what's the point of this.
Is it to reward the die hards who GM all the time? Is it to motivate people to try GMing who wouldn't otherwise? Is it to reward people who GM only some of the time? Because it fails miserably on those last two, just because of the high threshhold to get a reward out of it.
When I said I was in support of breaking this up, I just assumed that the double reward would be split up also. And again, I think being able to fill this in with GM sessions that you don't get a chronicle for would also be a good change. In that case, I'd say don't split it up, since you're already making it easier to get the reward.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Minnesota—Minneapolis
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I also was assuming that if they were split, it would only count as one goal for three GM sessions. I don't really care if it is requiring 3 sessions and the 2, or a flat 3 sessions each. I just find that I split my GM credits amongst my characters and it would be nice if that reward came a little earlier.
I think it would also help me as a host to get people to try GMing. Right now, in order to get it you are half-way to your first star. I know one-star is easy to get, but it seems like a lot for people who haven't GMed before. Our venue really tries to get new GMs going, and I think this could help with that.
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And here I am, wishing that there was another level of GM credit boxes.
I wouldn't be upset if there was a 'bigger' goal.
Or make it a choice:
A row of three boxes worth 1 goal; a row of 5 boxes worth 2 goals, and a row of 13 boxes worth 4 goals. Word it so you can only access one of the 'goal tracks.'
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I don't believe the point of the faction cards is to incentive GMing. The point of the cards is to bring the factions to life. The GM goal is there more as a consolation prize for not getting a chance to mark off boxes as a player that time.
Until everyone DMs 1/6th of the time!
We have GM chronicle credit
Which is a very small bonus since the opportunity cost is not getting to play, which would have gotten you just about the same thing, unless you have some killer DMs in the area.
GM stars, GM star boons,
The star boons are meh.
various convention boons.
KHAAAAAAAAAANSSSS!
And maybe more importantly: appreciation of players and the actual fun of GMing itself.
You forgot the thrown tomatoes.
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I'm with the wolf on this one Lau, there are a number of rewards, some of them have no meaning to some GMs (the stars and convention boons, since a number cannot make it to conventions, including my VA who has military duties), and there is still a problem in many areas where the same people are forced to GM every week because not enough people GM in the area.
I am for the change. I think breaking it into two rewards, maybe having both take 3, would be more easier and perhaps an incentive to those who want to fill out their cards.
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And here I am, wishing that there was another level of GM credit boxes.
I wouldn't be upset if there was a 'bigger' goal.
Or make it a choice:
A row of three boxes worth 1 goal; a row of 5 boxes worth 2 goals, and a row of 13 boxes worth 4 goals. Word it so you can only access one of the 'goal tracks.'
I like where you're going with this, though I don't know if I'd make them exclusive.
Why not just do three boxes worth 1 goal, then another 5 boxes worth 1 goal, then another 8 boxes worth 1 goal? Then, someone who GMs a lot could end up hitting three goals, but it gets progressively harder each time. In the mean time, the easiest one only needing three GM sessions makes it more realistic as an incentive for people like me who don't GM as much and/or apply their GM credits to different PCs.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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I don't mind GM incentives - I'm not immune to them either. It's nice to be appreciated with trinkets instead of only intangible gratitude. I might've GMed at a Con anyway, but a nice shiny boon could just put it over the edge.
But on the other hand, sometimes discussions like these make me feel there's a bit too much emphasis on incentives and not enough on selling people on the idea that GMing itself is fun.
Also, the biggest incentive for me remains just getting scenario credit onto a second character for a scenario I've already played. Which by definition you're getting, if you're about to mark off a GM checkbox on a faction journal card.
I'm not really seeing the "opportunity cost" argument for GMing either - I enjoy GMing, I don't mind not getting to play at the same time. And there are plenty of opportunities for both. It might be that our local situation is just different; sufficient GMs and sufficient games to play. Not-yet-played scenarios are the scarce resource actually.
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Venture-Captain, Minnesota
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I spend a lot of time recruiting and encouraging new GMs. The majority of the regulars at my store step up eventually, but you have to create the environment for that to happen. I have the advantage of high IRL diplomacy, and a decent IRL sense motive, and even I like having incentives to entice new people to step up.
I like 3. 6. 12 for the box goals! Or being able to check off goals for scenarios for which you did not get a chronicle would be great.
While I do believe that GMing can be its own reward, it's nice to have more reasons to help those wavering on the brink to commit to GMing a scenario or two.
Hmm
Pathfinder Society Lead Developer
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We're open to revisiting how the GM credit is counted (e.g. 3 boxes is one goal, 5 boxes is both goals), but I do want to let folks know that the solution we settle on will depend in part on the limited real estate for words on each card. One way or another, we're thinking on how to approach the matter.
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I don't believe the point of the faction cards is to incentive GMing. The point of the cards is to bring the factions to life. The GM goal is there more as a consolation prize for not getting a chance to mark off boxes as a player that time.
Seriously, in my area, we have almost 3 times as many active GMs now as we did when I first started running PFS.
Back in 2010:
Monthly Game Day, 2 sessions, 2 tables, sometimes
This swung quite a bit until the Game Day got cancelled (at the end of 2013 or 2014), with the last one still only being two sessions, and two tables in each session, I think.
I decided that once a month wasn't enough, and arranged table space with a local game shop, which already provided table space anyhow, to run PFS there twice a month, one session, one table, as I was the only GM.
As time passed, it swung wildly, from a few months (Jan-Mar, usually) with no tables going off, through the busy times, either when we were strongly supported by our first area VC, one session, two tables; and a brief spurt, with a bunch of new players, where we actually had a session with three tables (with thanks to John for stepping up and running one of the Evergreens for the surprise table).
Currently, we have one session, one table, when we even get that much going. :(
And one of our local GMs will be moving acriss the country after he gets married, leaving us with only a couple of GMs, both with issues running on our regular game day. My work schedule is working that day, except for a few vacation days, and the other GM is currently long-term hoarse (hopefully, he will see the doctor about this, he has been pretty much unable to speak much for several months now, and we are worried about him.).
I am trying to get information on what days our previous local players would be interested in playing, and if there is anyone else I could help start GMing... But, as Hmmm said, anything I could use to help incentivize new GMs wouldn't be looked down on.