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I am a complete Pathfinder newbie, a tabletop newbie, really. My first tabletop experience was about ten months ago when I found a Pathfinder Society location in town. I've been going there ever since, and it's been fun like I've never seen before. I like this game a lot.
Last game though, I got it in my head that maybe my wizard wasn't necessarily right for the group, that maybe I should make someone who better compliments the strengths of the party. I went to the drawing board and made a few concepts, but nothing felt right.... then I realized something:
I don't really need to play at all, do I?
The main regulars of our rotating party are a barbarian named Grog, a warpriest named Korveer, a zen archer named Kazeem, and a multiclass guy who sorta amounts to a barbarian/eldritch knight thing named Uruk. ANY of these four guys could probably take down a level-appopriate module designed for 3-5 players BY THEMSELF, and we almost always have two or three of them. (never all four, because Kazeem and Korveer are played by the same player) *I* do not need to do anything; every encounter we ever face is a foregone conclusion. Hell, if I tried to stop them? If I went total defense all day and suddenly switched sides at the toughest combat, throwing everything I have in an effort to force them to lose? I BET THEY WOULD WIN.
Granted, none of the fearsome four are much to speak of outside of combat, while my wizard, Solomon, is. And I DID say I've been having loads of fun. But now that I realize there's no drama, no chance of us ever possibly facing any kind of defeat, I'm not certain about this anymore. What's the protocol for a situation like this one? I kind of feel like I'm going to be looked upon as some kind of idiot, "What are you talking about? Winning is fun! Who doesn't want to be super strong?"
I don't know. If anyone's got any kind of insight into this stuff, I'd appreciate your input.
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Since this is Society, is there another group that you can play with? Is playing online an option? At the heart of it, it sounds like the problem is a difference in how you approach the game. They seem to be more interested in a power fantasy, and you want more of a challenge. Another option is to talk with them about your "problem" and see if a solution can be worked out. If your problem is more about feeling useless, then I would make a skill based character, such as an Investigator, and see if there can be more scenarios run where combat is not the main focus. Ultimately, I wish you good luck and good gaming.
It's a bit of a failing in PFS. If your character permanently dies, you can't just roll up a new one of that level like you would do at most home games. So, if you are worried about losing your progress, then you need to over engineer your character, so he can hardly ever die.
Also, you can never be sure of what/who will show at your table, so you have to be prepared to face the most amount of things all by yourself.
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So... I both play and GM a lot of PFS. And I've never made a combat-optimized character.
As play level gets higher, you'll find that your wizard will save the party's asses countless times. In PFS, having someone to make the skill checks and solve the puzzles and talk to the NPCs is incredibly important. You may have gotten your party their second prestige point with your out of combat utility countless times, and not known it. PFS is about far more than the combat.
I've also played in some very scary and very deadly scenarios that would have gone far worse if the utlity / skill check people weren't doing their jobs.
PFS gets harder and harder the higher you go. You want danger and excitement, stick around: it's coming!
Hmm
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Try talking to your GM about possibly adding more out-of-combat scenarios or overall choices, or ask the GM to maybe bump up the difficulty in combat to challenge things. It sounds like they're optimized for combat, so throwing things at them that are solved without combat would really throw them for a loop. Keep in mind that there are also quite a few things that a full-progression arcane caster can accomplish that the other players couldn't hope to do due to the varied effects you can bring about.
It sounds like you should talk to your GM about two different possibilities:
1. Increase the difficulty of combat. If the combat are guaranteed successes and that makes it boring... then make them not guaranteed successes. Makes things a bit more scary for you, but it then it may force the group to exercise some good group tactics to ensure that the valuable wizard that can bend reality doesn't get smacked upside the head so you can do your battlefield management. Depending on your level, yeah, it may feel like the other players are doing everything yet you can't do anything. Higher level though you'll start being able to pull things out of your magical hat that they could never dream of doing.
2. Increase the amount of out-of-combat scenarios. Ask the GM to make less things solvable by simply hitting things with a sword. Try persuading the guard captain that you're not just thugs while you're standing there with blood dripping from your weapons after you tracked down the den of thieves if nobody has good diplomacy. And good luck getting that valuable cargo out of the rapids if nobody put points in swim, or maybe you need points in Knowledge:Engineering to get that crane/winch working in order to seal off the section of wall that has 1d4 troops coming out of it every other round?
Edit: Didn't see that this was still part of PFS and mistakingly thought that you were only mentioning PFS as the story of how you first got into it. As mentioned, PFS is known to be mid-level difficulty so that most any group of players could randomly join up together and complete it. Optimized characters will usually wipe the floor with them. Unfortunately since this is PFS the only option is to ask for the players to change how their characters work. The problem with this is that demolishing combat is what they consider fun, and so you would be asking them to stop having fun for your sake. It may just be that you need to find a different group of people to game with who have a mindset closer to your own when it comes to gaming.
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You could try leveling with them but it sounds like you've tried that already and these guys are unrelenting optimizers. PFS scenarios are not built to endure a middling-high levels of optimization. Your best be is to start a new PFS group and not invite them. During gamedays, try to avoid their tables.
If you can find or join a non Society group, try to play Reign of Winter. It is an adventure path known for its difficulty.
Play a bard and troll the ever-loving hell out of them.
I should probably note that there isn't really "the GM." Everyone is GM execpt for newbs like me, they all rotate and no one really handles that duty more often then anyone else. So, "asking the GM to throw the party for a loop" means speaking personally with whoever the GM is today and asking if they can suddenly mess around with a bunch of stuff seconds before the game begins.
The problem with this is that demolishing combat is what they consider fun, and so you would be asking them to stop having fun for your sake.
That's what I'm worried about. The problems are that I want to be able to contribute to the combats - which are something like 50% of the game, with some variation for each module - and that I think it's boring to fight when there isn't any risk of failure. (or chance of success, but that's less likely to disappear unless I specifically ask for a Great Wyrm Dragon to fight) Asking them to give us something tougher to fight isn't possible because we're playing PFS, and asking them not to be so strong all the time is basically requesting them to stop having fun. :(
I will say, though, the last game was actually very heavily non-combat for a long time. We snuck into a slave trading ring to find a mcguffin, by pretending that three of us were slaves and a bard was our slave trader. If not for me passing messages around using my many languages - Orc to Grog, Celestial to the bard, and Halfling to a rogue NPC we met on the way - we may well have had trouble coordinating things. It was pretty goofy in a way, we had to pretend I was an ill-tempered slave and that I was always mouthing off at the trader, but under the angry tone we were giving each other critical information. Probably Solomon's best game thus far. :P
I do understand that there's a lot of non-combat stuff to do, but I guess..... well, I read in some guides that you should always make it a goal to make sure your character isn't useless in a scrap, and isn't useless OUT of a scrap. Hell, I'm a Diviner with Improved Initiative. 9 times out of 10, I'm going before all of my teammates, so I've got the chance to strike first in whatever way I want to, but I feel like I've made a lot of bad decisions here. Going first means I can throw a save-or-die and see if I can shut down the combat before it even starts..... but opposing Enchantments and Illusions means I don't HAVE many to use. It seemed like a good idea at the time. x.x
Like I said, I want to have a place being useful in the party, but also, I want there to be a challenge. I want to be in DANGER. I want to have to think "Solomon might die here if I screw this up." Yes, it would suck in some ways, but that would be a game I REMEMBER. That would be a story for the ages! Probably. More likely then these combats we crush all the time.
I might look into making a less combative character. Perhaps another Bard, maybe we can get some Basic Harmony going or something. I'll definitely voice my concerns to the party see what they think. Maybe we'll play some other kind of scenarios, we HAVE done non-PFS games before, and they've been different. Stuart once threw together something where we all had to be tiny creatures, that was a lot more challenging and fun. Maybe we can do more of that, I dunno.
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If you can get someone to run third party material, TPK is a company that makes adventures that are known for their difficulty.
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If a company by the name of TPK wrote an adventure that wasn't difficult, I would be upset.
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I suggest against playing harder content with these guys. Optimization is an arms race and just like a real arms race, it always ends in nuclear armageddon. If you start playing more difficult content the optimizers are just going to optimize harder.
The best way to hit that sweet spot of difficulty is to be choosier about who you play with.
Mmm..... it does make sense that more difficult stuff would be more likely to challenge them, but I guess, I'm not certain I would be able to pick up the slack a wizard would need to. I don't have much experience, so my imagination struggles to invent a situation we couldn't handle, and struggles even more to think of a situation where everyone is about to die and I swoop in and save the day.
What I mean is, higher difficulty solves the lack of challenge, but not necessarily solves my own inability to contribute.
I know my bard comment seemed flippant, but I'm serious. If I'm invited to a game where everybody else builds badass combatants and enjoys killing things but aren't good at social situations (and social situations happen in this particular campaign), I will play a bard and be the face of the party. In combat I'll throw up a perform and sit back, maybe throwing out an assist or a spell if needed, but then I'll have my fun in the social encounters.
Of course I realize that's not for everybody, but it's an idea.
...Out of curiosity, what level are you currently playing your wizard at?
Level 5. My feats are False Focus, Improved Initiative, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot. I use a bonded object instead of a familiar, a gold amulet that is also a holy symbol of Nethys. (no one was able to find rules for that, but no one cared enough to tell me I wasn't allowed to roll those two items into one) Everyone else is also level 5, except Grog is level 6 I think. Someone is 6, idk.
EDIT: Oops I am a moron and I spent my bonus feat on Precise Shot when that's not allowed. Haha...... Iiii'd better change that at some point. x.x
I know my bard comment seemed flippant, but I'm serious. If I'm invited to a game where everybody else builds badass combatants and enjoys killing things but aren't good at social situations (and social situations happen in this particular campaign), I will play a bard and be the face of the party. In combat I'll throw up a perform and sit back, maybe throwing out an assist or a spell if needed, but then I'll have my fun in the social encounters.
Of course I realize that's not for everybody, but it's an idea.
I am actually a Bard in the Runelord game we've been doing whenever we don't have enough people/materials for Society. It's going alright, Inspire Courage is a great fallback to make sure you're doing SOMETHING, and Lingering Performance lets that keep being a thing even if someone puts you down. I been sorta trying to keep my spells and archery up to par as well, but ultimately, I know that my job is just to tell a story to buff the party and watch them wreck everyone.
I could Bard for Society too I guess. But I think I'm more hoping that we stop doing Society stuff at this point, cause it's just not a challenge for them. Or barring that, I'm hoping someone else comes by to play so I can be on more-equal footing with somebody.
In that case, two suggestions. One, talk to the people that you do enjoy playing with about forming a home game, or play in the store. Two, join one of the online RPG sites, such as Roll20.
Another solution is something that I'm experimenting with currently.
Instead of running a party, run a band. Everybody plays a bard. You're not adventurers, you're not even fighters. You're a traveling group of performers that makes a living by picking up shows here and there.
And then you get into some sort of trouble, of course.
Conclusion: Bards make everything less serious.
Another solution is something that I'm experimenting with currently.
Instead of running a party, run a band. Everybody plays a bard. You're not adventurers, you're not even fighters. You're a traveling group of performers that makes a living by picking up shows here and there.
And then you get into some sort of trouble, of course.
Conclusion: Bards make everything less serious.
I've heard of things like that before, one party I heard of had everyone take a level in Bard or Skald and take Basic Harmony, and try to keep their Perform ranks decent so they could actually use it. Sounds interesting. :P
But then, everything sounds interesting to me right now. I'm still really new to this game, and they're all very very NOT. I believe the minimum of any of their experience is about 10 years or so, they've all played basically every class and race and tons of crazy combinations, and they're running out of ways to experiment. That Runelord game I mentioned? One player played as a SAGARI. A monster. One of these guys. http://orig07.deviantart.net/6741/f/2013/238/e/8/sagari_by_mysticaldonkey1- d6jvoqv.jpg
I guess maybe that's part of the problem too: I'm still excited to see the basic mechanics of the game play out in simple ways, and everyone else has already seen it all.
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Things might get "better" for you because difficulty is going to rise a bit; there's a big difference between level 5 in a 1-5 and level 5 in a 5-9 adventure. At low levels you can get by as an optimized individual, but at higher levels it becomes much more important to have each others' backs.
Also, as a wizard, feeling like you're not contributing enough is relatively easy to fix. Learning new spells is the easiest form of "retraining" available. And ranged touch wizards are uncommon so you can also be distinctive. Stuff like Enervation can have a significant impact.
I guess as a wizard, my trouble comes from a lack of imagination, or a lack of understanding I guess, depending on how you want to think of it. If I cast a Fireball or a Lightning Bolt, and I manage to naturally Maximize it by a stroke of ridiculous luck (and also if Hell freezes over) I'll hit for 30 damage, reflex half. Compared with my allies? That's PITIFUL. They regularly strike for 20-30 PER HIT, and they're using Full Attack to get several hits per turn. Bottom line, blasting and direct damage are just a waste of a spell slot.
I've been messing around a little with Ear-Piercing Scream and Cause Fear to try and mess up tough guys, but save-or-die's seem to be a crapshoot. Buffs seem handy, for what few I have at this level. A well-placed Bull's Strength can be a big deal, and Haste is always nice. I keep preparing Grease and Glue Seal in case I see an opportunity for them, but I can never seem to determine when and where they would be useable. Summon Monster looks like it's starting to get a little good at IV, with Medium Elementals, but right now I've mostly got celestial livestock that does nothing but attack, which I can't even command cause they don't speak any languages. I guess I've got Small Elementals.... but those all look like they'll just die in one hit. And I don't have their languages yet, so I've gotta either burn a Tongues or hope the GM makes them do what I need them to do. :/
All the guides I've ever seen for a Wizard have been from the perspective of someone 7 or 8 levels higher then me, at minimum. I have precisely NO idea what I should be doing at this level. x.x
Ah, but fireballs hit entire groups of enemies at once.
Martial characters shine against bosses. Blast wizards shine against their mooks. Nothing says "I'm doing my job!" like clearing out all the cannon fodder in a round or two.
Save or lose spells is what makes a wizard feel like a god at this level. Color spray and sleep are the big two.
Also, you know what the hell is going on. Keep those knowledges maxed out.
And I can't remember ever seeing a thread about "My wizard just can't keep up with how OP the martial characters are!" before.
Ah, but fireballs hit entire groups of enemies at once.
Martial characters shine against bosses. Blast wizards shine against their mooks. Nothing says "I'm doing my job!" like clearing out all the cannon fodder in a round or two.
True enough, but remember that I've only got two 3rd-level spells in a day - technically three a day, but one is Tongues, the only good 3rd-level Divination, as best I can tell - so I can't just Fireball every time I see a hoard of goblins. Are the canon fodder really worth the effort?
Save or lose spells is what makes a wizard feel like a god at this level. Color spray and sleep are the big two.
Too bad I opposed Illusions and Enchantments. bleh..... it fits the character concept that I like really well, but holy crap did I hamstring myself. x.x
Also, you know what the hell is going on. Keep those knowledges maxed out.
I've mostly been maxing ranks in Arcana and Local. I've got a rank in everything else (except Nobility, seems like a pretty dead draw) and that seems to be good enough really. Probly gonna start putting ranks in those again once I run out of "Must be trained" skills to put a rank in just so I can make checks. :P
And I can't remember ever seeing a thread about "My wizard just can't keep up with how OP the martial characters are!" before.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. :?
Not sarcasm, it's just that people commonly complain that casters (wizards in particular) are far more powerful than martial characters.
If you need help playing a powerful wizard I recommend Treantmonk's Wizard Guide.
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Too bad I opposed Illusions and Enchantments. bleh..... it fits the character concept that I like really well, but holy crap did I hamstring myself. x.x
Not at all. A lot of the really great stuff is Conjuration or Transmutation. And Necromancy.
For 2nd level spells, Blindness/Deafness, Create Pit, Glitterdust, and Aboleth's Lung (which makes people unable to breathe air) leap to mind.
For 3rd level, Aqueous Orb, Spiked Pit, and Slow all leap to mind as very nice offensive spell. And Haste is likely the best spell in the game.
And it only gets better as you go up in level.
Really, the trick is to not try to do damage. Wizards are mediocre damage dealers for the most part, they excel at inflicting conditions on people that screw them over, creating terrain conditions, using buff spells, and otherwise changing the whole way the fight works. Do that and you wind up more valuable than you ever will be doing damage. The Wizard Guide from Treantmonk linked above is a pretty good general guide in how to do this.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. :?
He's pretty serious. Wizards are really powerful. Especially at high levels.
Wizards are generally bad damage dealers, but if you specialize in it you can be pretty good. Although the admixture school is basically required to stay competitive. And even then you're still better at mook-clearing than boss-killing.
Like I said, all the guides I've ever seen seem to do a poor job of outlining things for low-level players, or if not that, then I guess I'm just having a hard time getting useful information out of the guide for some reason. Trentmonk lists useful spells, but I can never seem to figure out how to USE them. u~u
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Power in Pathfinder it in learning when/where/how to use your abilities. I would ignore the idea of doing damage as that's not where the power of a wizard lies.
Here's a basic formula:
Target fighters and rogues with will save spells
Target clerics with reflex spells
Target mages with fortitude save spells
For example:
*If you see a cleric, drop a pit under him and take him out of the fight.
*Hit that mage with ear piercing scream to stun him, blindness so he can't cast spells.
*That group of fighters is completely debilitated with Glitter dust because they can only hit at 50% of the time at most
These are some very simple, low level tactics, think smarter not stronger. Mages are hard for a beginner to play because it requires a little bit of system knowledge, simple rule is work towards increasing your save DCs and don't put feats into using a bow ;)
Buy some items which increase your spell DCs like Headbands of Intelligence, Rods, feats and more.
I guess I have a enough to think about. If we can get some more challenging games going, I'm sure I'll be able to find SOME way to contribute.
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As a Diviner having trouble feeling like you're contributing you may find this (rather tongue in cheek, but still useful) thread helpful.
Especially the suggested spells, which I'll repeat here for your ease of access (and as has already been mentioned the Create Pit line of spells are simply amazing).
1st: Color Spray, Grease
2nd: Glitterdust, Web
3rd: Slow, Stinking Cloud
4th: Black Tentacles, Confusion
5th: Icy Prison (Ultimate Magic; while this spell doesn't disable multiple enemies, it deserves mention for how it wins bossfights even when saved against)
Whilst you're not throwing down 30 or 40 points of damage a round, you *won* the fight if the enemies fail their saves vs those spells, the Barbarians are just on cleanup duty after your victory.
Gonna just remind everyone that Illusions and Enchantments are opposed schools for Solomon. :P
Glitterdust is good, I use that all the time. Slow, seems alright, but Haste seems much better. Web and Grease..... I keep preparing Grease, but I have no idea when and where to USE it. Web looks even worse cause I need to find anchor points at the right distance WITHOUT catching my team in the sticky string.
Gonna just remind everyone that Illusions and Enchantments are opposed schools for Solomon. :P
Glitterdust is good, I use that all the time. Slow, seems alright, but Haste seems much better. Web and Grease..... I keep preparing Grease, but I have no idea when and where to USE it. Web looks even worse cause I need to find anchor points at the right distance WITHOUT catching my team in the sticky string.
Haste SEEMS better but 1 extra attack in a full attack sequence really pales in comparison to applying staggered to most if not all of the opposition once it starts playing out on the table.
People tend to overestimate how often they're going to get to full attack if they're not playing a ranged character.
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I keep preparing Grease, but I have no idea when and where to USE it.
When facing opponents who you think have poor Reflex saves - most enemies with class levels (not monks and rogues, but you get the idea), giants, that kind of thing. Try to make a couple of them fall down if they're standing next to each other. Ideally when they're already next to one of your allies - that way if they stand up they provoke AoO. Also good for making it hard for an opponent to retreat. Also good for protecting your ally from being grappled.
I guess we'll see how Grease fares once it's actually important that I DO something like battlefield control. Part of the reason I have trouble understanding the potential of my spells is, as was the original topic, that my team is so damn powerful that I literally don't need to do anything.
There was once a game early in my career where we had five combats in a single day with no 8-hour period to rest and regain spell slots. I had no idea that was going to happen, so I wasted three spells in one fight and had to be very careful how I used my precious two remaining ones. That game kind of informed my thinking while playing a spellcaster; it taught me that a low-level wizard isn't supposed to respond to every minor threat with the biggest and baddest stuff they have, because in a war of attrition, they're going to run out.
Now that said, sizing up threats to determine whether it's necessary to bring out the big guns is kind of counterproductive when nothing in the entire world stands a chance against any of your allies. "Shutting the enemy down" always feels like a waste of a spell, because my team was already going to kill them anyway. Buffs just FEEL better in situations like that.
So I guess we'll see how things go once we start facing tougher challenges. Hopefully I'll be able to convince them to pick up a tougher campaign after this week's game. (not before, cause I know how much trouble it can be to get things set up.)
Part of the reason I have trouble understanding the potential of my spells is, as was the original topic, that my team is so damn powerful that I literally don't need to do anything.
I know the feeling. One of the few advantages mundane characters have over casters is that in a routine battle they can have just as much fun attacking enemies without having to hold back their limited powers in case they might be needed later. An extra Fighter is just as superfluous as an extra Wizard, but the Fighter probably won't notice because he's busy chopping up monsters.
Still, by level 5 you have quite a few spells per day. If you don't think your party needs the support of a second or third level spell, you can usually afford to throw out a Grease.
Eh, I mean, what's the point? Just participation for participation's sake? Best use I can see is if someone manages to outrun the barbarian, and the archer doesn't exist.
Grease has a lot more use than you might think. I can think of several examples that a well placed Grease spell can save the day or help dramatically. You've already stated that you are playing a Diviner. That's already where you can start being great with Grease. You can act in surprise rounds when your companions might be ambushed, cause it will happen at some point. You can put the Grease in the way of the ambushing heavy hitters to at least slow them down, if not stop them. Or you might spot an enemy archer who could be slipped up with that Grease. Alternatively, you can cast Grease on a party member if they are stuck in a pretty rough grapple. Chase scenes are another place that Grease can shine. If your group is being chased, Grease can slow the pursuers for at least a round. If you are doing the pursuing, that same Grease could slow down your target so you catch up with them. Even if they make the Reflex save to not fall, they have to make an Acrobatics check to move at more than half speed through the area.
I get that you are frustrated, but I think it's because you want your wizard to feel like the hero. Right now, you are still at a level where your wizard's job is more to make the other heroes' jobs easier. If there's mass combat situations, that's when you get to feel like the hero. You can then control the battlefield to prevent ambushes, block off enemy reinforcements, or outright wreck the majority of threats with a few well placed spells.
Eh, I mean, what's the point? Just participation for participation's sake?
Humiliating the enemy?
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Sometimes it's just for laughs. I had a fight with a golem, and my wife's cavalier had an adamantine greatsword to deal with it. However, the golem was slowed by cold spells, so my winter oracle was all 'lol frostfall and now you slow'. The 2nd level slot was a cheap resource at high level and contributed to keeping the party from taking more damage from it.
Don't forget that you can greatly enhance your usefulness both in and out of combat with scrolls and wands, particularly for utility spells that don't really care about save DCs but also aren't something you want to memorize. Like tongues, for instance.
The character seems to have an identity disorder. Diviner, but 2 feats spent on ranged combat. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but those ranged feats are generally only taken by wizards if they're focusing on using ray spells. I've seen that done, and it can be nasty (particularly with the 3.5 chain ray or chain spell metamagic feats), but that doesn't seem to be your intended direction. Divinations, as a general rule, are best used out of combat with a couple of exceptions per spell level (true strike, see invisibility, find fault, locate weakness, perfect placement, etc).
To be clear, I'm not trying to flat-out say "You're doing it wrong," or "That can never work." I'd do it differently than you are, but it's your character, and ultimately it can work if you embrace it. Divination and knowledge skills are fantastic for directing the party and solving the puzzles. The two ranged feats, if you use them, are great for ray spells. Now, that said, I do agree that the other spells they've mentioned are ultimately better spells, but there's nothing wrong with doing things that are different and you will eventually have enough spell slots to mix and match as necessary.
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What you call "an identity disorder" may actually be "the result of a new player trying to get a handle on the game without a lot of outside help." I looked at a lot of guides and I asked whatever questions I could think of from my teammates, but that's only scratching the surface in terms of figuring out what the hell I'm doing, really.
I picked up Point Blank and Precise so I could make use of my Wand of Scorching Ray, which cost me damn near everything I had. Too bad its MAX damage is close to the AVERAGE damage of my companions, and my chance to hit a barbarian wearing a breastplate is crap even with those feats. bleh. Mistakes were made. :/
But really, I can't regret my mistakes all that much, because 1) if I felt like changing things, I'd probably want to redo every last thing down to my race and class, 2) I seem to be doing alright regardless of them, and 3) like I said, no matter what I do wrong, we're gonna win anyway. But I digress.
Like I said, I'm trying to figure stuff out. Figuring stuff out means experimenting, experimenting means, well, winding up like a wonky jack of trades instead of getting properly focused on something. Call it "an identity disorder" if you like, but really, I'm a novice. I figured this is what novices wind up doing.
Now then, I think we're just about done here. My original problem has been long addressed, I think. I'll probably look into playing on Roll20 or some other thing where I'm more likely to find newer players. Playing with veterans for a while was a great way to learn the rules and whatnot, but I think I've got a handle on things now, so it's time to find some people who WON'T just steamroll over everything while I watch. :P
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@AntipodeF:
So the first thing to understand about wizards is that there are a lot of viable builds, but it's important to pick a primary role. Such as there are:
- Blaster; this is one looks very simple but is hard to execute, requiring hard-core optimization. When you do manage, it's very rewarding.
- Controller; wizards excel at this, and it is probably the most powerful role a wizard can fulfill. It isn't especially hard to build, but actually reaping the full benefits requires insight into the game's tactics. Any beginning player can roll up this character, but many will be disappointed because they don't get the promised results. In the hands of a player who knows what he's doing though, this character will dominate the game and possibly get the GM to complain that his enemies never get to do anything; while the other players are reduced to finishing off enemies that you already made non-threats.
- Enabler; more focused on "switching on" other PCs and getting them to where they need on the battlefield, than "switching off" enemies. Stuff like making the rogue Greater Invisible so he can easily sneak attack, or Dimension Dooring the barbarian next to the enemy wizard. Your fellow players will particularly like this style.
The above list is by no means exhaustive of course, but these are roles I think combat-wise are the most potent. The wizard I play focuses on enabling with a generous helping of control and a dash of blasting for finishing off near-dead enemies that might otherwise get another turn.
So how do you control the battlefield? The clearest example is to "divide and conquer". Suppose your party is ambushed; you cast Sleet Storm on them. They can't see anymore, so the archers will have to move out to do anything useful. The warriors too, will be rolling Acrobatics to move slowly. Most likely they won't all succeed in the same round so they'll trickle out one by one, where your barbarian colleague can easily kill them.
With one spell you totally switched the advantage from them to your party. Instead of your barbarian having to fight his way through five melee dudes at the same time while getting peppered by archers, now he's executing the melee dudes one by one as they stumble out while the archers climb down from whatever snow-obscured ledge they'd been hiding on.
P.S.: you're level 5, you can cast Sleet Storm now. It's awesome.
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Another thing. Wizards can be a "force addition": doing damage to an enemy just like the barbarian. Or a force multiplier: hasting the barbarian so he hits more often. Or using Telekinetic Charge to position him next to an enemy so he can full attack instead of move-attack once. Often the net damage of multiplication is way higher than trying to do it yourself.
That's not to say your Precise Shot was a bad investment. Spells like Ray of Exhaustion and Enervation will soften up enemies a lot so that your colleagues have an easier time finishing them off.
Today was game day. Very non-combat, lots of knowledge and perception checks, which were right up Solomon's alley, and not so much anyone else's. After the game, I discussed my concerns with the team as planned. Kinda felt like they weren't listening very hard, or if they were, like they didn't understand...
The gist of what I tried to say was "I feel like we have no chance to lose, which means combat is not very dramatic, and also like I won't be able to help you if you need me." The general response seemed to be "You're worrying too much; PFS is SUPPOSED to be easy, and the game isn't entirely about challenge anyway. And, you ARE helping out! Making those knowledge checks gives us vital information so we can kick ass more effectively! Besides, you don't WANT to lose and die, do you? If you die, you have to make a new character!" Told them "I think I could be doing a lot more with a different character, I've got a Witch I've been building who looks like she could be doing the same knowledge stuff as Solomon plus doing some actual combat stuff." They said "We don't really want to play low-level stuff anymore, we've done 1st level stuff a million times, this has been our first chance to play mid-tier stuff in a long time!"
I guess I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, but, I'd appreciate some sort of input that's not coming from me or them.
You don't need to roll up a 1st level character if you're going to play a different one (unless you're playing PFS but if you're always playing with the same people on a regular basis, why are you playing PFS?). If you are playing PFS, I believe you're allowed to use pre-made characters of appropriate levels if you want to. That might be a good option if you want to change characters.
For a wizard, I find it helps to focus on one of the following areas:
1) Buff/Debuff/Crowd Control. This is the "God Wizard". It can be difficult for a newbie to play but basically, you're choosing the spells that make everyone around you better and all the baddies worse.
2) Blaster wizard. Lots of people will bash on you for doing this but you're kind of already on the path to that. I've noticed you've taken a few feats that work well with Rays. You can stick with that, then. Spell Focus (Evocation), Spell Specialization (Scorching Ray) are great feats. Dipping a single level into Crossblooded Sorcer and take both the Red Dragon and Orc bloodlines will dramatically increase the damage of your scorching ray, burning hands, fireball, and fire snake spells.
3) Save-or-suck wizard. I love the save-or-suck spells. With your great Knowledge skills, you can find out what the crappy save for your enemies are and then hit them with a spell that affects that - For instance, a Hold Person (Will) or Spike Pit (Ref) or Blindness/Deafness (Fort). Take Spell Focus (Enchantment) and Spell Focus (Necromancy), boost your INT as high as it will go, and you'll be a glass cannon of awesomeness.
4) Focus on summoning. The Summon Monster Whatever spells can be awesome. Frankly, a Master Summoner does this better but you can still be REALLY good at it.
You don't need to roll up a 1st level character if you're going to play a different one (unless you're playing PFS but if you're always playing with the same people on a regular basis, why are you playing PFS?).
We usually play PFS, for some reason. I don't really know why. I guess the others like it.
If you are playing PFS, I believe you're allowed to use pre-made characters of appropriate levels if you want to. That might be a good option if you want to change characters.
In my experience, the pre-gens have the same problems as Solomon is having: they're hodgepodge jacks-of-trades, too unfocused to really be effective at anything. Versatility is one thing, but the pre-gens I've seen all do some really bizarre stuff, sub-optimal to a point approaching ridiculousness. The only game I've ever died, I was playing as a pre-gen Monk who was level 7 while the average party level was 4. I was the only character to die, and I don't believe I was playing poorly, within the limits of what I could do.
For a wizard, I find it helps to focus on one of the following areas:
1) Buff/Debuff/Crowd Control. This is the "God Wizard". It can be difficult for a newbie to play but basically, you're choosing the spells that make everyone around you better and all the baddies worse.
2) Blaster wizard. Lots of people will bash on you for doing this but you're kind of already on the path to that. I've noticed you've taken a few feats that work well with Rays. You can stick with that, then. Spell Focus (Evocation), Spell Specialization (Scorching Ray) are great feats. Dipping a single level into Crossblooded Sorcer and take both the Red Dragon and Orc bloodlines will dramatically increase the damage of your scorching ray, burning hands, fireball, and fire snake spells.
3) Save-or-suck wizard. I love the save-or-suck spells. With your great Knowledge skills, you can find out what the crappy save for your enemies are and then hit them with a spell that affects that - For instance, a Hold Person (Will) or Spike Pit (Ref) or Blindness/Deafness (Fort). Take Spell Focus (Enchantment) and Spell Focus (Necromancy), boost your INT as high as it will go, and you'll be a glass cannon of awesomeness.
4) Focus on summoning. The Summon Monster Whatever spells can be awesome. Frankly, a Master Summoner does this better but you can still be REALLY good at it.
All well and good, but I've already messed up a lot here. I've gotten pretty unfocused, and it's way too late to start undoing stuff and refocusing.