Imagine a combat with a spellcaster at the top of initiative. He casts Ear-Piercing Scream at somebody. They fail their save, so they take some damage and a Dazed for a round. Next is another spellcaster, who casts Command at somebody else, who also fails their save. On their turn, they will be forced to flee at top speed.
Next is me, a bard. I begin a Countersong with a very high Perform (Sing) result. Both the target of the Scream and the target of the Command use this result as their new saving throw, and they succeed.
What happens? Is the target of Command still obligated to flee? Is the target of the Scream still Dazed? Does the damage done by the Scream go down by half?
As everyone here has already said, playing an Eldritch Knight for the sake of being a Gish is kind of not a very good idea anymore, but it's not entirely a pointless idea. At a cost of just 2 levels of spell progression, an arcane caster can pick up 10 points of BAB in the course of their career, and three bonus feats. This is a very good boon for ray-slinging Evokers and Sorcerers and such, especially since those classes are a little starved for class features anyway.
If you don't mind throwing away your school powers or bloodline powers, and you do want some more BAB and some combat feats, Eldritch Knight is for you!
As best I can tell, there are no explicit rules for riding familiars as mounts, thus, they work just like normal mounts. Ride is not Handle Animal. You can direct it to do as you say, but controlling it as a rider isn't quite the same as giving it commands and letting it know your intentions.
If that weren't true, then it would mean any rider could take three levels of Wizard to get a Mauler Familiar to ride on so they don't need to make ride checks. I don't think that's how they would want that to work.
Side note: you accidentally posted the same topic here twice. You should probably delete one of them. : P
Matthew Downie wrote:
If you want a Tiny longsword, you probably live in a world where Tiny blacksmiths exist.
If you can find an appropriate-sized blacksmith for Tiny or smaller items, then divide the cost of the item by 8 for each size category smaller then Small, since it isn't more skilled labor then it is for a Medium blacksmith to make a Medium item, but the cost of materials still goes down.
EDIT: Unclear, bad grammar. Touching it up.
Allow me to elaborate in regards to my GM:
He's played one single game of Pathfinder so far, after which our GM - me - stepped down because the pressure of being GM was too great. He barely knows how the game works and basically depends on me to explain or rule how things work. Thus, "The GM has final say" just brings it right back to me to advise him again, which me brings it back to here asking you guys for advice.
It's frustrating, coming here and having people so quickly jump to saying "Ask your GM." : /
If you were to ask me - I should mention that I don't know the rules for Pathfinder extremely well - I would say it goes like this:
Smaller weapons and armor cost roughly the same. Sure, the cost of materials goes down, but the cost of the labor goes up as it becomes more precise to make smaller and smaller things. A Fine-sized dagger would be the work of a tinker, not a blacksmith, and would be very skilled labor for even a non-masterwork one to have roughly the right balance. Even a Tiny longsword may give a human blacksmith trouble.
(I might even say it costs more to commission a human to craft small equipment, but really, who wants to pay extra for a sword the size of a toothpick?)
Larger weapons cost much much more for every size change. An object or creature that doubles in height increases mass and volume by a factor of 8, so the cost is at least that much more, and I'd expect any ordinary blacksmith would charge extra to build a larger weapon then themselves. (not counting the size difference for a halfling or fairy or some such creature living in a human society.) I'd say.... 1.5 times the cost should be fine.
8 X 1.5 = 12, so for every size category you go up, increase the cost by a factor of 12. Yes, this will quickly get out of hand for low-level parties. If it was your dream to have a well-balanced Colossal Greatsword, you'd better start saving up, cause it'll run you about 1 million gold. (50 X 12 X 12 X 12 X 12 = 1,036,800) Maybe you can pay for it in monthly payments. After all, it's not like it's gonna get built overnight. : P
So that's what I'd call the "realistic" take on it, as far as my understanding of reality goes.
I'd argue that it's not a good idea to interpret any spell effect or magic item as "A big waste of time and money." If there's a way to read it in which it does something, assume that this is the correct way to read it - unless there's a better way to read it in which it still does something.
A wizard can learn a spell from a scroll by copying it into their spellbook, or from another wizard's spellbook by copying it over. Does this imply that I could simply purchase a non-scroll sheet of parchment with a spell on it with intent to copy it? If so, what's the price for such a thing?
I once had a gm rule that purchasing a new spell for your spellbook costs half as much as a scroll of the spell, but I'm now finding out that he was wrong about a lot of things.
Also, how much of this situation changes if I'm a Witch and not a Wizard? Someone said I can burn scrolls and feed them to my familiar to learn spells, but I can't find that rule anywhere either.
If the answer is "I don't know, ask your GM," it's worth knowing that my GM is a rookie and doesn't know the answer either.
"This bookmark alters the book that holds it so that it appears to be another book entirely, even upon a thorough reading. The apparent book is determined when the bookmark is crafted, and is usually an especially boring or commonplace book such as a legal or religious text. The bookmark also protects itself and the book with nondetection."
Nondetection says "The warded creature or object becomes difficult to detect by divination spells such as clairaudience/clairvoyance, locate object, and detect spells. Nondetection also prevents location by such magic items as crystal balls. If a divination is attempted against the warded creature or item, the caster of the divination must succeed on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against a DC of 11 + the caster level of the spellcaster who cast nondetection."
I think it's worth considering that Nondetection is a 3rd level spell, and the bookmark costs 1,500 gp. If it can be foiled by just taking it out - and if you would assume that players will idly do so as part of a basic Perception check - then this is an incredibly stupid use of time and resources.
It's positively ridiculous that such a thing doesn't give any description at all to "what if someone tries to remove it?" Does the spell stay in place even after the mark is removed? Does the bookmark fade and/or hide itself, or otherwise become difficult or impossible to remove?
These are questions to ask the GM, because the RAW is simply a big shrug. If you were to ask me, I'd say the bookmark becomes hidden when the book transforms its appearance. If you can perceive the original book, you can perceive and remove the bookmark; if you're still fooled by the illusion, the bookmark is invisible and cannot be found by your fingers.
Ah, right. Forgot about all those goodies, heh... the wonders of playing low level all the dang time. Still, I don't wanna skimp on the arms and armor. The whole party is martial or half-martial, except for me. They'll appreciate getting chanted weapons at half cost, I'm sure.
But yeah, getting headbands of mind and belts of body at half cost is already worth a feat, not to mention pearls of power for myself and cloaks of resistence. Glad I asked the experts.
Thanks for that. Saves me the trouble making a new topic just to say "what crafting feats should I take?" : P
Also, yes it is supposed to be easy for a dedicated crafter to make magic items. Try playing a 7 Intelligence Cha/Wis caster with not max ranks in Spellcraft and suddenly things are a lot less certain.
I wouldn't call my witch a "dedicated crafter" though. As an INT-based caster, having 20 INT and max ranks in Spellcraft is just a good idea. Past that, it's only a few measly feats. If you want to be a one-stop shopping for all your magic item needs, then yeah, it starts getting tricky, but my own party will probably be set for life if I just take Brew Potion (via the Cauldron hex) Craft Magic Arms and Armor, and possibly Craft Wondrous Item. I could get Craft Wand and Scribe Scroll, but the Witch spell list isn't really suited to this stuff, and there aren't many casters in my party anyway.
But I digress. Questions asked, questions answered. Should've figured I couldn't do a CL 19 potion, that would be a bit silly. : P
Thanks for the help!
Here's the way it seems to be: crafting a magic item has a DC of 5 + the caster level you want it to be. As a Witch with 20 INT, even without trait bonuses or skill ranks or anything like that, I get a bonus of 8 + skill ranks to Spellcraft, simply because it is a class skill. And this skill can be used for every kind of magic item creation. From what I can tell, that means I can just make magic items of my caster level without even rolling, because even a 1 is 4 higher then I need.
Adding onto that, as best I can tell, you can Take 10 on item crafting skill checks, because you're not rushed or distracted. This brings me up to a guaranteed 18 + skill ranks. Ignoring a pre-req increases the DC by a measly 5, so I can ignore up to three pre-reqs and still make any item. (not that I can do spell-trigger things like Potions or Wands without the key spell, but that's obvious) I can also attempt to make an item of caster level 19 as long as I meet the pre-reqs, and I still can't possibly fail, even at level 1 with just 1 skill rank. (the FAQ here suggests this is possible)
Is it really this easy to craft magic items?
(I do know you still need the relevant crafting feats and such. But as a level 1 Witch, I can already brew potions, and if I can scare up the coin for it somehow, I could make a CL 19 potion of a 1st level spell, if all my math is right.)
That's the trouble, isn't it? All of us are so green, we don't even know what sorts of things we would prefer. We just want to play. I haven't asked them yet, but I already know that's what they would say if I asked them.
They've never played tabletop before, so I'm just trying to get them drawn into the experience, for now. So, I want something simple, like a board game what have you: open up the box, explain the rules, and play.
Yes, I do understand this isn't easy to achieve with Pathfinder. Hence my coming here for advice. u~u
EDIT: @Eltacolibre Sounds perfect! I'll definitely give that one a look. : )
@Louise Bishop: can I ask why those paths in particular? They all look a bit complicated... each of them, as best I could understand from the preview PDF, looks to have some additional rules and things which could be cumbersome. I'm not worried about having a tough time understanding them, but I'm very worried about things being too complex to explain to everyone else. I'm worried that interest would wane, and everyone would be driven away from the game.
(this is distinct from worrying about one or two players leaving. Pathfinder isn't right for everyone, and that's fine, but I don't want to scare anyone away by making the game more complicated then it already is.)
The trouble with a smaller path or a oneshot is that I'm the only one who knows the rules well enough to set up a character, so I have to hold everyone's hand the whole way. It's exhausting. I'd really rather we keep the same characters for a while, if possible. x.x
I'm not especially worried about the possibility of some of the players abandoning the game. It's effortless to find interested players, in my circles.
I've finally managed to get a group of 6 together to play Pathfinder, 5 players and one GM. All but myself and one other player are extremely new, less then 3 games under their belt each, some as few as 0. Even the GM - who isn't me, I tried and failed - has only played once and never GM'd before.
But the veterans, including you at Paizo, say we shouldn't let that stop us.
The question is, how do we get started? It seems like the simplest way would be to pick up one of the Paizo Adventure Paths (though if you can think of another idea that wouldn't be too hard on our rookie GM, let me know) but then the question is, which one should I go with? These things cost money, and even if they didn't, I'd rather make an intelligent decision then just pick at random. My gut is not to be trusted; I've seen evidence of this time and time again.
For reasons I don't care to explain, we can't play Runelords or Jade Regent. But any of the other ones will work. (yes, I have heard Runelords is great for newbies. We still can't, so it's moot.)
If you have any advice for 5 greenhorns and their ambitious, yet foolish leader - that's me - I'd love to hear it. I'm flying by the seat of my pants and I have no idea what the hell is going on. I crave guidance.
I'm not interested in playing a spontaneous caster Witch. Especially if it would change my casting stat from INT to CHA.
Though I do wonder, can I still gain new spells from Scrolls the same way a Wizard could? Or for that matter, if I found or stole a Wizard's spellbook, could I learn spells from that?
.... I feel like there's rules on this. I should check before asking. : P
EDIT: Spellcraft lists "learn spells from a spellbook" as one use of the skill, but otherwise, information seems incredibly sparse.
Mage Armor wasn't very appealing at first, since I'm the only member of the party who will benefit from it.... but, when I'm around level 6 or 7 or 8, it's lasting basically all day, and hey, I can make potions of it for cheap. And really, I've pretty much got my bases covered with the first 7 known spells. May as well grab that for the last one.
@ Doomed Hero: I am level 1 with 0 Experience. Why do people always have so much trouble talking to players with characters like that?
EDIT: @ Lily: Perhaps "bored" was a poor choice of words. More like "I feel it would be a foolish use of my turn," or more specifically "I'm unable to use it on anybody." Evil Eye has no effect on mindless creatures, for instance.
I will most certainly need a lot of hemp. XP
No but yeah, I think I got it, for the most part... I'll probably use a lot of my spells known getting Potion fodder, then use my actual spell slots on Sleep and Command so I have some panic buttons. My DEX is good enough that I can shoot a bow if I get bored of Evil Eyeing people, so it's not like I don't have combat options.
Thanks for the advice!
You get 3 spells plus intelligence bonus so that should make at least 6 spells.
Uhh..... it's 1 for being a 1st level Witch, then two more for having 20 INT. 6?? I should be so lucky. : P
EDIT: Ooooh, wait, you mean spells known! Wow, I get 8 of them? That's gonna help out a bit. Thanks for pointing that out!
I do plan on taking those hexes in time, and the spells will be _very_ nice, once they start bestowing multiple re-rolls, but right now I only have three spells in a day. If I spend them all on single-turn buffs and debuffs, I could blow through them all in one combat. It'd be better to use those precious slots on big things, like Colour Spray.... if I _had_ Colour Spray. <sigh>....
I'm building a first-level Witch for a new group, all of whom are total rookies, some of which have never played before. I'm probably the most experienced player, but even I'm still pretty green.
The other members of the party are a Paladin, a Swashbuckler, a Ninja, and a Shaman who's building for melee combat. Frankly, I'm worried. I'm worried that I might struggle to participate in combat, apart from slinging Evil Eyes around, and more importantly, I'm worried that we might get crushed utterly by something we weren't prepared for.
I'm an Elf, if it matters, and I'm taking full advantage of those racial scores. 18 DEX and 20 INT. Hex is Evil Eye, bonus feat is Extra Hex: Cauldron, since it seems like potions will be useful pretty much right away.
If I'm going Cauldron, it's pretty much a given that I should take CLW. I'd go for Infernal Healing, but the Paladin might not like that. But what else? I'm tempted to pick up things like Charm Person and Unseen Servant, but I only get three spells... wouldn't it be smart to pick up something to help out with combat?
(abridged; meaning not lost)
Can the target simply negate the spell by making a reactive Spellcraft check to identify it? Spellcraft takes a d20 roll, after all....
Brew Potion says "Brewing a potion takes 2 hours if its base price is 250 gp or less, otherwise brewing a potion takes 1 day for each 1,000 gp in its base price."
According to the Potion cost chart, where the hell are these prices coming from? No potion costs exactly 250 gp or any denomination of 1000 gp, so why are those numbers used to determine the time to brew them? I must be missing something here. And why does it not mention the time for a potion whose cost is between 250 and 1,000?
This might just be a nitpick, but I gotta ask anyway on the off chance that it's a sign that I am badly misunderstanding the rules here.
This place is a ghost town. Finding one person who knows what Dungeons and Dragons is is almost impossible. Odds that I find an agreeable one who can deal with my newbishness? Probably 0.
Roll 20 is almost as bad, in the opposite way. There's so much going on, and almost all of it is seasoned veterans who want nothing to deal with me, whether they know it or not. "Newcomers welcome," say the signs, but in time, I manage to prove there are exceptions, and I'm one of them.
I've been pondering Pathfinder - playing on and off, when I can find a group - for 2, nearly 3 years now, and I still feel like a woefully inadequate newb wherever I go. I feel like the weak link in any chain, the one they laugh at and ridicule and tell to gtfo.
Where do the newbs play? I know a number of others who are even more green then me, eager to play, but no idea what constitutes a game. None of us are remotely fit to GM. How do we get started?
(I live in a very small town; there are no local games here, and all of the friends I speak of are people I know only online.)
If your answer comes from Google or Youtube, be advised I'm likely to say "I've seen this before, and it hasn't helped." Please be patient with me. I know I'm a fool. I need far more help then anyone should ever be expected to. I'm ashamed to come here, or anywhere, asking anyone for anything, but I'm at wit's end.
The spell Codespeak has a duration of 10 min/level, and it allows for targets to write things in the resulting magical language. How much can a person write in 10 minutes? I ask because I intend to write something very very long, long enough that it may or may not be possible to complete in the span of 30 minutes - the duration you'd get if a minimum-level wizard casts it. (I don't care to disclose further details. Better to avoid getting sidetracked.)
(this is gonna be a long one, so skip to the end for the tl;dr version)
A few months ago, I started getting together a Pathfinder group from the various Discord groups I'm in. Most of them were among the "I've never played D&D before, but I've always wanted to" crowd, with myself as the one who knew what the hell anything was, so I set up a tiny tutorial mission thing for them to teach them the rules.
It was a ton of work. Consensus was that I did a good job, but it took me almost a month of daily work just to get this one thing done, and I'm sure it would take as long for every session thereafter. I can't handle the responsibility of being a GM. x.x
(even if I could, I'd much rather be a player then a GM.)
So I stepped down as GM and became a player, bringing the player count up from 5 to 6. Oh dear... Not a good number. Well, no matter. It shouldn't be too hard to find a GM, right? Welll, wrong. Apparently it's very hard to find a GM for a group of six, most of whom are total newbies. I did find one, eventually, who almost agreed to do it, but right when it seemed the deal was nearly sealed, she asked, "So what adventure path do you want me to run?" When I told her we didn't have one, she told me she couldn't, and I was back to square one.
So I started looking through the Paizo adventure paths, and I found one which instantly captivated me: Jade Regent. The big draw I see is these caravan NPC guys, one of whom perfectly fills a void in my own character's backstory. I've decided that this character and this adventure path were made for each other, and I will not play one without the other.
But Jade Regent has a problem: the caravan NPCs themselves. With 6 players and 4 NPCs, combat is almost guaranteed to be incredibly cumbersome for everyone.
I do see solutions, but none that seem good. Mostly I just feel overwhelmed by the responsibility of cleaning up the big stupid mess I've made for myself. I should've thought things through better, but now that I'm here, I have no idea where to start.
TL;DR version: 6 players - 5 neophytes and 1 novice - want to play Jade Regent. What's the best way to approach this?
I've seen this topic around before, but apparently there is still some dispute, so let's see if we can put this puzzle to rest before 2017.
If a person has a DEX modifier of less then 0, does this affect their AC?
If at all possible, I'd like something as concrete and indisputable as possible, because I'm getting really sick of coming across this argument.
Hmmm, Catan is a bit slow, in my experience..... but you are right, it should probably be something with a cooperative element. But what sort of thing would work? At least one of them definitely does not have Tabletop Simulator, so I can't just pull out something like Red Dragon Inn or what have you. (have I mentioned that this is an online group? Because it is.)
A heist..... that could be a very good idea, if I could pull it off.... but I've never played an adventure where there was a clear choice between barging in guns blazing or sneaking in the back door. I have no idea how to build something like that..... maybe I can find a module somewhere.....?
I did once multiclass a Bard with a Magus. And isn't there a Charisma based Magus? You'd short change yourself on Bard abilities and spells, but you would be part bard and part Magus. Maybe take Magus just for the Black Blade for a few levels. Then the rest in Dawnflower?
NOTE: My campaign is restricted to not allow for multi-classes to be an option.
Anyone can be good at combat, and I'd argue that they all should try to be. It's just a matter of _what_ you want to be _doing_ in combat. Bards usually go for high DEX, ergo, lots of crossbow and rapier stuff. For melee, there's Deadly Agility from Path of War to let you do DEX to damage with two weapons at once. For range, I might go Elf just to get the longbow proficiency. For both, pick up Arcane Strike whenever you can.
Being the final arbiter is the thing I hate most about being GM. It's not a role I am suited for.
What sort of thing should I do for a practice session that would be different from a normal one? I'm obviously not going to launch them into a deep campaign with a rich story just yet - I don't even have one prepared anyway. We'll just be doing mission-style mercenary work until I'm sure things are stable and everyone will play nice, but that's still a lot of work which could be potentially wasted.
EDIT: Ninjad. I will give them a fight against some wimpy bandits, but I want to make it clear that Pathfinder isn't all combat. They will face some puzzles and such as well. But like I said, I'm worried that this will all just go to waste. If the "stranger" players all turn out to be wrong for the group, I won't be able to use the same adventures again for the players who are my friends, lest I risk boring them with repetition.
I'm actually kind of tossing around the idea of playing something else, like Poker or Chinese Checkers or whatever, as a way of gauging everyone's demeanors. It won't ensure that they're up for a complicated game, but it'll give me peace of mind that they could compete and be civil about it. Does that make sense?
For lack of a group, I decided to make one. For lack of a GM, I've been chosen as the de facto one. I've only been playing for about a year, and though I know the rules of Pathfinder very well, I am not confident in my abilities. I do have some adventure ideas, and I could find some modules or ideas online, I'm sure. But what really worries me is my players.
About a month ago, I was setting things up much as I am this time: I asked around to see if anyone would be interested in playing Dungeon World, and I approved the first 5 names who expressed remote interest.
This probably goes without saying, but things didn't go well.
I spent days poring over the GM guide and making sure I understood the rules of play. I looked over every character they made and I even allowed them to choose an unusual race, for which I invented an ability to give to each of them. (relatively easy, in Dungeon World. Every race/class combo gets a fitting ability. It's not too hard, and it made them feel a lot more personal.)
When game time came, the very first player took his very first turn, and immediately attempted to use one of his powers in an illegal way. I told him he could not, and he threw a tantrum which ground the game to a halt. The resulting argument led to the group being disbanded, not because things were so intense that we swore never to speak again, but because I was too timid to tell certain players to leave. I found it easier to just throw everything away.
Needless to say, I'm probably an awful GM. But I'm all there is for this group, so I need to do my best.
The new group isn't quite as bad as the other. I'm personally acquainted with two of the five players, which should make things a little safer, but the other three, as with last time, are little more then strangers. And one of them is known to be very very young - under 13, in fact. I am worried that Pathfinder will not be what the strangers are expecting, especially the young one, but I don't want to turn them away based on what is essentially prejudice.
As best I can tell, only one of them has played 4th edition D&D. The rest have never played a TTRPG in their lives, so I'll need to teach them the ropes. I do have some ideas for a "tutorial adventure," as it were - mainly ripping off the 2nd adventure I ever went on, since it introduced a lot of basic concepts - but I'm worried about the possibility of pouring all this hard work down the drain because I didn't think to make sure my players were up for this sort of game.
What do you recommend? How can I ensure that my players are prepared play nice, and to stick around for a game that's a little tougher to get into then your average video game?
Whenever I'm allocating skill points, I take ranks in the following order of priorities:
1) Things that I know I'll be doing. Spellcraft for the Wizard, D. Device for the Rogue, Diplomacy for the Bard, etc. Anything that I look at and say "It is my job to be good at this."
2) Things that cannot be done untrained. No matter how bad you are, even a 5% chance at success is better then a 0% chance. Nothing sucks like the GM saying "You can't even try because you aren't trained."
3) Class skills. Take a rank just to get the +3 bonus. Why not?
Still got ranks leftover? You must be a human Rogue with high INT. Well, try this:
4) Things you know that nobody in the party is good at. No party face? A rank in Diplomacy could save your life. If you don't know your teammates at all, then just skip this until you do.
5) Things you have an ability score bonus in. Maybe you'll never use Ride, but hey, you've got a DEX bonus, so why not? At least you'd be good at it if it ever came up.
So all of that said, you are a Rogue, and judging by the skills you took, you probably expect to be the party face, or at least prepared to make checks in the social skills, so you might have a Charisma bonus. Use Magic Device cannot be used untrained, it's a class skill, you likely have a bonus, it's possible no one is taking it, and with a few ranks, I'm certain you can make it a very helpful addition to your arsenal. Take UMD.
Cast from any spell list? That's gonna make things a logistical nightmare. Some spells appear on multiple spell lists at different levels, such as Wall of Fire, a 4th level Wiz/Sor spell, but a 5th level Druid spell. If you want this concept to really take off, you're gonna need to do some pretty serious homebrewing. I wish you the best of luck.
How about Presque Isle, Maine? Not exactly a jumpin' location for all manner of social get-togethers. Even College Station, Texas only had one Pathfinder group, as big as it was.
What I'm saying is, I'm more or less resigned to playing online, and I'm fine with that. Local is better, but online can be just fine, as long as I can get connected with like-minded people.
Anyway, we got a bit off track there, so I'm gonna bump with a little more clarity: does anyone have any ideas on where I might find a group that is right for me in which I can be a player? So far, Roll20 has struck me as unsatisfactory (which is probably just a testament to how bad I am at using it) and I've exhausted all the local groups in the puny town I'm in.
Ah, for total emergencies? At 3rd level onwards, you could try Raven's Flight. Swift action to become a tiny raven shape with a 50 foot fly speed for the rest of the round. Ask your GM if you can Run 200 feet away with your new fly speed. One of mine said you could not. But still, you can definitely double-move 100 feet. I've used it in non-combat scouting situations as well, it's such a versatile spell. Never leave home without it!