So I had an idea for a paladin who wants to try and get Ultimate Mercy as soon as possible and I think I have a build coming together that could get it and use it by level 5. Right now it's a rough idea and I haven't thought it through very much but here's the plan
Start
Human paladin 1
STR 14
DEX 13
CON 13
INT 7
WIS 7
CHA 20
Feats Fey Foundling, Power Attack
At second level we've got 6 uses of lay on hands.
At third level we take greater mercy
at fourth level we gain nothing of note for this idea
at fifth level we retrain power attack into extra lay on hands. we also take Ultimate mercy. We have 9 uses of lay on hands.
By this point we should have obtained a headband of alluring charisma +2 bringing our CHA to 22 and giving us 10 uses of lay on hands.
Now if anyone at your table dies you wait a day and raise them for free.
Now the problem here is that most of our damage was coming from Power Attack. So at level 5 we drop in damage substantially.
so for level 6 we dip a level of fighter and pick power attack up as our bonus feat.
Then at seventh level we retrain that fighter level to a paladin level and take power attack as a normal feat.
I know this idea isn't the best but I really like the idea of being able to raise dead for free really early. Do you guys think that this can be viable? I know that first level saves will be bad and even with taking a skill point FCB I'll only have 3 skill points per level.
Are there any glaring holes in this that I didn't account for? Any way to improve it?
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Um, this might possibly be a really boring character to actually play?
The vast majority of scenarios nobody dies so you're just a subpar paladin. Significantly subpar since you won't dare to use your lay on hands ability to actually heal yourself.
Once every now and then you save some member of the group some money/prestige. Kind of nice when it happens but hardly earth shattering even then.
I'm NOT trying to badwrongfun you. If it sounds really, really cool to you then great, go for it. Just pointing out why it wouldn't appeal to me at all in case the above were things you hadn't thought of.
To be a bit less MAD, maybe make the character a Divine Hunter AT paladin. Don't need the power attack if you're using a bow, and the AT gives you free precise shot.
How would that be any less MAD? I'd do less damage and still need some strength investment. I wouldn't even be able to go over 15 DEX if I had zero investment in STR. I'd have more attacks from range but I would be doing even less damage than I already am. Plus that d10 hit die would be going to waste in the back line. At least without a dip into oracle which isn't a bad idea but i don't know when it would be a good idea to start it.
Um, this might possibly be a really boring character to actually play?
The vast majority of scenarios nobody dies so you're just a subpar paladin. Significantly subpar since you won't dare to use your lay on hands ability to actually heal yourself.
Once every now and then you save some member of the group some money/prestige. Kind of nice when it happens but hardly earth shattering even then.
I'm NOT trying to badwrongfun you. If it sounds really, really cool to you then great, go for it. Just pointing out why it wouldn't appeal to me at all in case the above were things you hadn't thought of.
Well I figured that even if i used my lay on hands for the day I could just wait a day and raise them after the scenario. Or is that not allowed? Also i'd be hitting for +2 1d8+6 with a two handed longsword while power attacking. I'd say that's pretty decent damage.
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Well, let's analyze this:
Those stats are...we'll go with bad. Yeah, bad's the word. Also, that doesn't quite work. 6+2 is only 8 Lay on Hands, not 9. Extra Lay on Hands will still manage things, though.
So, let's analyze what you really want: Maxed out Lay on Hands. Okay, we can arrange that.
At 1st, go with the following stats:
Str 16
Dex 12
Con 13
Int 7
Wis 7
Cha 19
Feats: Fey Foundling, Power Attack
So, at 4th, you add your +1 to Cha, and now have 8 uses. Assuming you can get a +2 Headband by 5th, you now have 9, and the Feats, but not enough Lay on Hands. So the Power Attack thing is still a problem technically, but one that's solved at 6th. I'd just tough it out without this trick until then (retraining your 5th level Feat into Ultimate Mercy when you hit 6th).
Additionally, I'd grab the Chosen One Archetype if you can arrange it. It gives an Emissary Familiar and, while it's not a raw power upgrade, you can pick a Thrush or Raven for your familiar and roleplay as that character out of combat, giving you some actual skill utility outside of a maxed Diplomacy score. It also seems singularly appropriate for an Int 7, Wis 7 character. And I'm well over 90% sure the Archetypes stack. Works well thematically with Fey Foundling, too.
As for this not being useful, as I understand it, you can take a day in the middle of scenarios pretty readily, so you just do that when you need to resurrect someone. Seems simple enough.
I considered warrior of the Holy light but I wanted to be able to keep the ability to activate Wands, also with my charisma I'd actually have a few spells per day.
Also I don't own familiar folio so I can't use the emissary archetype in PFS.
As a list of what I own. I've got all the hardcovers besides occult and mythic adventures Ultimate Equipment and Bestiaries 4 and 5. I do not own any player companions or aps, besides the emerald spire. I also own the Inner Sea World Guide
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I considered warrior of the Holy light but I wanted to be able to keep the ability to activate Wands, also with my charisma I'd actually have a few spells per day.
Also I don't own familiar folio so I can't use the emissary archetype in PFS.
As a list of what I own. I've got all the hardcovers besides occult and mythic adventures Ultimate Equipment and Bestiaries 4 and 5. I do not own any player companions or aps, besides the emerald spire. I also own the Inner Sea World Guide
That's valid. Your plan seems like the way to go then. I'd still use the stat lineup I suggest, though. Cha 20 is overpriced when you don't need it before 4th level anyway.
On another note is there any other way I could keep my damage up while I don't have power attack?
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On another note is there any other way I could keep my damage up while I don't have power attack?
Well, if you have a +1 two handed weapon and get your Str to 18 with a belt, you're hitting with +11 for 2d6+7 at 6th. It's not nearly as good as the +9 for 2d6+13 you'll have with Power Attack, but it's not terribly bad.
Making use of the Divine Favor spell seems valid, and if you take the Fate's Favored trait, decently powerful (though that does basically waste one of your Traits from levels 1-3).
Smiting more would also help, and can be achieved fairly readily by going Oath of Vengeance. That costs uses of Lay on Hands, of course, but you've got 'em to spare.
A Vicious weapon is always an option if you can afford it (doubtful, IMO). Again, you have lots of Lay on Hands, 1d6 damage a round to you just isn't that high a price to pay for +2d6 damage.
Your Divine Bond can also give your weapon Merciful or Flaming for another +1d6.
On another note is there any other way I could keep my damage up while I don't have power attack?
If you are willing to drop Fey Foundling, you can pick up Extra Lay on Hands and Power Attack at 1st level. Since you're maxing out your Lay on Hands anyway, you probably won't need Fey Foundling.
Also, if you are willing to take Oath of Vengeance, you can trade 2 uses of Lay on Hands for another Smite Evil. Since you're planning to wait an extra day if you need to raise, you could get some versatility by spending some Lay on Hands for additional smites. You would lose the ability to channel positive energy, though.
On another note is there any other way I could keep my damage up while I don't have power attack?If you are willing to drop Fey Foundling, you can pick up Extra Lay on Hands and Power Attack at 1st level. Since you're maxing out your Lay on Hands anyway, you probably won't need Fey Foundling.
Also, if you are willing to take Oath of Vengeance, you can trade 2 uses of Lay on Hands for another Smite Evil. Since you're planning to wait an extra day if you need to raise, you could get some versatility by spending some Lay on Hands for additional smites. You would lose the ability to channel positive energy, though.
I don't qualify for extra lay on hands at 1st level. I am considering oath of vengeance though
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My pally in RotRL kinda of went this way. It is certainly not boring to play, though you are not building for a high damage character . A lot of damage soaking, party support and kick butt on smite-able targets. Once brilliant energy kicks in with divine bond you can ensure you have your PA back and are doing pretty good. Definitely a good build for an AP or long term adventure, especially if there is other melee support.
I don't qualify for extra lay on hands at 1st level. I am considering oath of vengeance thoughOn another note is there any other way I could keep my damage up while I don't have power attack?If you are willing to drop Fey Foundling, you can pick up Extra Lay on Hands and Power Attack at 1st level. Since you're maxing out your Lay on Hands anyway, you probably won't need Fey Foundling.
Also, if you are willing to take Oath of Vengeance, you can trade 2 uses of Lay on Hands for another Smite Evil. Since you're planning to wait an extra day if you need to raise, you could get some versatility by spending some Lay on Hands for additional smites. You would lose the ability to channel positive energy, though.
retrain, you're already planning on a retraining, just retrain this one instead of the other feat.
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I don't qualify for extra lay on hands at 1st level. {. . .}
Note from the future (in case anyone else is searching for this): Believer's Hands explicitly lets you qualify for Extra Lay On Hands, but you actually have to invest a bit in Wisdom to qualify for it, so it won't work for the dump-everything-you-can-for-superfast-Ultimate-Mercy build.
^But then what does the Paladin do with the one who says "I'm not dead yet."?