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Due to random curiosity mixed with insomnia, I've created a list that (very) arguably presents the most popular 3PP products. Behold!
- The data contain no actual sales information, only rankings. But one does one's best with the information at hand.
- This only contains data from the Paizo store. I know that some products and companies sell more copies from other websites.
- This only contains data from downloads, not from physical products. The "Top Selling Products from Other Companies" list tends to contain comics and miniatures almost exclusively, which is not what I'm interested in studying.
- The "Top Downloads from Other Companies" list is not guaranteed to contain only Pathfinder products. Practically speaking, I have found few, if any, products that are not.
- The lists I have on hand only range from October 3, 2014 to February 5, 2016. Having access to earlier lists would almost certainly change the results.
- There are probably other disclaimers I could add that I'm forgetting about at the moment.
Top 10 Products:
01. Ultimate Psionics (291 points)
02. Spheres of Power (243 points)
03. One on One Adventures Compendium (211 points)
04. Spheres of Power: Expanded Options (203 points)
05. In the Company of Dragons (199 points)
06. Way of the Wicked Book 1 (147 points)
07. Path of War Expanded - Work in Progress (109 points)
08. Pathfinder Legends: Rise of the Runelords 5 (94 points)
09. Ultimate Relationships (90 points)
10. Pathfinder Legends: Rise of the Runelords 4 (84 points)
If one wishes to ignore the Pathfinder Legends series, add Path of War (69 points) and Advanced Bestiary (67 points) to the list.
Top 10 Publishers:
01. Dreamscarred Press (700 points)
02. Drop Dead Studios (515 points)
03. Legendary Games (514 points)
04. Big Finish Productions (354 points)
05. Rite Publishing (339 points)
06. Expeditious Retreat Press (211 points)
07. Rogue Genius Games (185 points)
08. Fire Mountain Games (174 points)
09. Everyman Gaming (152 points)
10. Kobold Press (78 points)
If one wishes to ignore Big Finish Productions (makers of the Pathfinder Legends series), add Green Ronin Press (68 points) to the list.
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Kobold Press is at the bottom of the list!? No way! And I'm surprised FMG is still there; everyone loves Way of the Wicked but the company is pretty much dead.
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Thank you for explaining the Methodology Distant Scholar, thanks to that it's much easier to understand potential sources of error and approach the results accordingly.
I do think this study has a large amount of value since it shows what sort of products get large sale volume.
Without more inside access I think this is about as good as research can get :), so good job!
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Kobold Press is at the bottom of the list!? No way!
Its at the bottom of a list that feels like a major powerhouse list so I wouldn't say being in that position is a bad thing.
I had been making sure to glance at the top 10 lists in Paizo's emails too so I was not surprised to see Ultimate Psionics and Spheres of Power at the top.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I wonder how much the top 10 list changes daily though. Since the emails are weekly, if there's a lot of day to day variation, then the weekly snapshots could be only 1/7th of the dataset. One way to check this would be to look at the top 10 list daily for a few weeks and see how much things change.
This is a particular issue for a category like 3p which has relatively lower sales volume (than Paizo products), and even a small swing could shuffle the top 10.
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Thanks for showing the methodology.
1. It favors folks who do releases more often rather than large mega successes like Frog God Games.
2. It also favors PDF publishers.
3. There also should have been 520 points added if you were say #1 in the top selling on paizo, which I Frog God Games has done. Because that's a lot of damn sales to beat paizo.
Regardless, a better way to do it IMHO.
Public money and customer data is out there for ALL Kickstarters. Just go look at who has the most backers that tells you who has the most customers.
1. Deep Magic by Kobold Press
2. Advanced Bestiary by Green Ronin
3. Wicked Fantasy by John Wick
4. Ultimate NPCs by Nord Games
5. Scarred Lands by Onyx Path
6. Southlands by Kobold Press
7. Rappan Athuk by Frog God Games
8. Spheres of Power by Adam Myers
9. The Lost Lands: The Lost City of Barakus by Frog God Games
10. City State of the Invincible Overlord by Judges Guild.
Now some of these like Ultimate Npcs and scarred lands are multi system. But so are a lot of frog god games.
But if you dont' think the biggest sellers are Frog God Game and Kobold Press your crazy.
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Regardless, a better way to do it IMHO.
Public money and customer data is out there for ALL Kickstarters. Just go look at who has the most backers that tells you who has the most customers.
And that somehow doesn't favour the company's that do kickstarters over the ones that don't?
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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Kickstarter can be a plus or a minus as far as sales later. Way of the Wicked had as many sales as it did because it wasn't a Kickstarter. If people wanted to buy it, they had to buy it through sales channels like Paizo, Drivethru, etc.
On the other hand, with Kickstarters a lot of the people most interested in the product will buy it through the Kickstarter, so its after-campaign sales may be less because customers that would normally buy through channels already have it. That's okay from a publisher's perspective (since the fees paid to KS as part of those sales are much lower than they'd pay selling through vendor sites), but it's likely to depress the number of sales you'll see for products that are finally released to the public.
Of course, Kickstarters can build big publicity, which can help push a product to greater heights of success, so you never know for sure which way a thing will go.
I Have a feeling The Grande Temple of Jing is about to hit that list, I just picked up a copy and it is great.
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Now annalyze the data from drivethrurpg and similar services... that could give an insight on the profile of shoppers here and there.
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I have a hard time believing I'm #9, let alone above Kobold Press, but I'll take it for now! :-P
Contributor; Publisher, Kobold Press; RPG Superstar Judge
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Neat! I agree it does tilt a bit to weekly PDF releases, and I notice it only goes back to October 2014, but it's still great to see this.
I'd agree with Jason and Rite Publisher that the Kickstarter numbers are a whole different thing (and likely outweigh the PDF sales by a good amount). Kickstarter has certainly changed the industry, but it's good to see the Paizo newsletter mined for data too.
Thanks for compiling this, Distant Scholar.
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When I look at it though - ignoring rankings - the 10 that are the top 10 publisher are really no surprise. 8 of the 10 are "will likely buy it just because of publisher" publishers for me.
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And that somehow doesn't favour the company's that do kickstarters over the ones that don't?
The only major player who does not do Kickstarter is Raging Swan. And I tell Creighton every time we chat (we are friends, he contributes to Pathways), that he is a IDIOT! for not doing kickstarter.
But again that is just IMHO.
Do kickstarted projects bring an overall higher revenue than normally released products?
For that matter how about patreon?
And that somehow doesn't favour the company's that do kickstarters over the ones that don't?The only major player who does not do Kickstarter is Raging Swan. And I tell Creighton every time we chat (we are friends, he contributes to Pathways), that he is a IDIOT! for not doing kickstarter.
But again that is just IMHO.
OH YES!!!!! He SHOULD have been doing a kickstarter.
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Do kickstarted projects bring an overall higher revenue than normally released products?
For that matter how about patreon?
Yes very simply because drivethru takes 25-35%, Paizo takes 25% (or 50% of print), and Kickstarter you loose only 5%, (and about 5% to bad pledges).
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Thanks for all the encouraging words. The data I'm using aren't the best for determining such things, but I don't have access to the best data, so one does one's best.
I wonder how much the top 10 list changes daily though. Since the emails are weekly, if there's a lot of day to day variation, then the weekly snapshots could be only 1/7th of the dataset. One way to check this would be to look at the top 10 list daily for a few weeks and see how much things change.
I'm assuming that the weekly list is the total over the whole week, rather than the daily snapshot for that particular day.
Is there a daily list? I don't recall seeing one.
Regardless, a better way to do it IMHO.
Public money and customer data is out there for ALL Kickstarters. Just go look at who has the most backers that tells you who has the most customers.
That's an alternate way of doing it. I'm not convinced it's better.
But if you dont' think the biggest sellers are Frog God Game and Kobold Press your crazy.
I'm crazy! Crazy!
Now annalyze the data from drivethrurpg and similar services... that could give an insight on the profile of shoppers here and there.
Is that data easily available?
...and I notice it only goes back to October 2014...
If I had earlier data, I'd use it. If someone found it for me, I'd incorporate it. [I've tried to find it, and failed.]
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Yes very simply because drivethru takes 25-35%, Paizo takes 25% (or 50% of print), and Kickstarter you loose only 5%, (and about 5% to bad pledges).Do kickstarted projects bring an overall higher revenue than normally released products?
For that matter how about patreon?
My experience was closer to 9 percent between Amazon and Kickstarter fees. I luckily only lost one pledge on my webcomic's KS.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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My experience was closer to 9 percent between Amazon and Kickstarter fees. I luckily only lost one pledge on my webcomic's KS.Yes very simply because drivethru takes 25-35%, Paizo takes 25% (or 50% of print), and Kickstarter you loose only 5%, (and about 5% to bad pledges).Do kickstarted projects bring an overall higher revenue than normally released products?
For that matter how about patreon?
Yes, the 5% is for Kickstarter itself, and on top of that there's another 3-5% in fees to Amazon, Stripe, credit card processing, etc.
In any case, it's a much smaller slice than the usual vendor sites or selling into print distribution (which can take up to 60%, or even more in some cases).
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I have a mass of raw data (emails) going back from June 2012 to early 2010 which I could share. Send me a note indicating where you want it and I'll send it.
Plus there was this post from LPJ here and I did a personal analysis of the Aug 17-Sept21 2013 range which I could share...
I'm sure the Paizo store account could fill in the gap from July 2012-October 2014, but that'd be a crazy project, and they've got more to do than forward emails. (Anyone else an obsessive hoarder of email?)
-Ben.
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Thanks for putting this together and describing the methodology! This is pretty cool.
As much as I like being on the top o the list, I have no doubt that other publishers do significantly better (especially those where they have full-time employees).
Something to note: the "top downloads" metric is VASTLY different from "top sales" - I've seen that number for a product that sold barely a dozen copies and made me scratch my head. So I don't know what that metric actually means - it may just be a bunch of customers who had previously bought it decided to all download in the same period of time - for example, maybe a new release triggered the download of an old product.
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My experience was closer to 9 percent between Amazon and Kickstarter fees. I luckily only lost one pledge on my webcomic's KS.Yes very simply because drivethru takes 25-35%, Paizo takes 25% (or 50% of print), and Kickstarter you loose only 5%, (and about 5% to bad pledges).Do kickstarted projects bring an overall higher revenue than normally released products?
For that matter how about patreon?
Yes, the 5% is for Kickstarter itself, and on top of that there's another 3-5% in fees to Amazon, Stripe, credit card processing, etc.
In any case, it's a much smaller slice than the usual vendor sites or selling into print distribution (which can take up to 60%, or even more in some cases).
Aye, the distributor that Rich Burlew uses offers a 60% discount to vendors, and then they charge 18% of the remainder, so he's got 33.2% of the pot to fabricate the book, ship the book, and make a living. Makes me more than a little upset at the necessary markups, I'll tell you what :P
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Fascinating thread!
It might be interesting to see those numbers/rankings updated/reevaluated periodically ...
It has been about a month, hasn't it?
I've compiled the data up to the 5 March 2016 "This Week in Paizo" e-mail. I haven't done anything with older data yet. The original link should take you to the new spreadsheet.
Here are the new lists:
Top 10 Products:
01. Ultimate Psionics (292 points)
02. Spheres of Power (243 points)
03. One on One Adventures Compendium (229 points)
04. In the Company of Dragons (208 points)
05. Spheres of Power: Expanded Options (206 points)
06. Way of the Wicked Book 1 (147 points)
07. Path of War Expanded - Work in Progress (109 points)
08. Pathfinder Legends: Rise of the Runelords 5 (94 points)
09. Ultimate Relationships (90 points)
10. Kineticists of Porphyra (90 points)
If one wishes to ignore the Pathfinder Legends series, add Path of War (69 points). There have been some small changes in points (and 4 and 5 switched places), but the big new book is Kineticists of Porphyra.
Top 10 Publishers:
01. Dreamscarred Press (747 points)
02. Drop Dead Studios (545 points)
03. Legendary Games (523 points)
04. Big Finish Productions (354 points)
05. Rite Publishing (348 points)
06. Expeditious Retreat Press (229 points)
07. Rogue Genius Games (185 points)
08. Fire Mountain Games (174 points)
09. Everyman Gaming (157 points)
10. Kobold Press (118 points)
If one wishes to ignore Big Finish Productions (makers of the Pathfinder Legends series), add Purple Duck Games (114 points) to the list. The top 10 are identical, but some publishers had a jump of 30 or more points. Again, Purple Duck Games' Kineticists series brought them almost to the top 10.
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Woo Woo.
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I'm sure the Paizo store account could fill in the gap from July 2012-October 2014, but that'd be a crazy project, and they've got more to do than forward emails. (Anyone else an obsessive hoarder of email?)
Yes. I've archived all of the Weekly Store newsletters since I started working here in 2010. ;)
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I'm sure the Paizo store account could fill in the gap from July 2012-October 2014, but that'd be a crazy project, and they've got more to do than forward emails. (Anyone else an obsessive hoarder of email?)
-Ben.
Actually I have This week at Paizo emails dating back to 5/18/06 it looks like in my gmail archive.
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The only major player who does not do Kickstarter is Raging Swan.
That kinda depends on how you define "major player," and "do Kickstarter." Rogue Genius Games hasn't done a Pathfinder Kickstarter yet, for example.
...
Though, I admit, sooooon...
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So a Kickstarter and a Patreon campaign soon? You are a busy man.
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That kinda depends on how you define "major player," and "do Kickstarter."
Owen .. major player... maybe...
Rogue Genius Games hasn't done a Pathfinder Kickstarter yet, for example.
...
Though, I admit, sooooon...
LOL!!!
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The only major player who does not do Kickstarter is Raging Swan.That kinda depends on how you define "major player," and "do Kickstarter." Rogue Genius Games hasn't done a Pathfinder Kickstarter yet, for example.
...
Though, I admit, sooooon...
Always figured you were like the BBC. Your business model never looked quite like the others :P
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Always figured you were like the BBC. Your business model never looked quite like the others :P
Well my business model has been forced to constantly evolve, with changes like "Get bought out from the well-known company and start your own," and "Somehow survive doing this while also being a developer for Paizo and Green Ronin."
There's a trick to balancing all that.
...
Or so I am told...
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So a Kickstarter and a Patreon campaign soon? You are a busy man.
That's the plan!
I already give away a ton of free content, such as my quick base classes, it seems worth tying a Patreon to that material.
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So a Kickstarter and a Patreon campaign soon? You are a busy man.That's the plan!
Just to let you know, I personally backed away from throwing a bunch of money at someone on Patreon a couple weeks ago, based on how stupidly snoopy their web site is. They're seriously sharing metrics with a LOT of other places. While I haven't anything to hide, it isn't a business practice I'm willing to support.
I haven't spent the time to find a different way to give my money to that other party yet, but I will.
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Always figured you were like the BBC. Your business model never looked quite like the others :PWell my business model has been forced to constantly evolve, with changes like "Get bought out from the well-known company and start your own," and "Somehow survive doing this while also being a developer for Paizo and Green Ronin."
There's a trick to balancing all that.
...
Or so I am told...
Aw, c'mon, pretty sure getting hired onto the mothership made everything a lot easier thanks to that prestige effect.
Since I'm in a curious mood, how much does the Open Gaming Store/d20pfsrd.com store take?Yes very simply because drivethru takes 25-35%, Paizo takes 25% (or 50% of print), and Kickstarter you loose only 5%, (and about 5% to bad pledges).Do kickstarted projects bring an overall higher revenue than normally released products?
For that matter how about patreon?
They take 20% - if you can actually sell anything through there.
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Aw, c'mon, pretty sure getting hired onto the mothership made everything a lot easier thanks to that prestige effect.
I can see why that might seem to be the case... but in practice the opposite appears true.
First, being a Paizo developer is an at-least-full-time job. Certainly it means I can take on a lot less freelance work, and having sick days and vacation days can help manage stress, but it's still (with commute) an average of 50-60 fewer hours each week I have to work on Green Ronin and Rogue Genius products. I have cut back on playing video games, tabletop games, reading, side-projects, and miniature work, and as it is I still run about a 90 hour workweek on average.
Second it's not just the hours doing Paizo stuff, it's the specific hours NOT doing GR/RGG stuff. I can't spend time I'm on the clock at Paizo to answer emails, talk on messageboards, or make business contacts for my other companies. I used to be extremely active as a 3pp poster on behalf of RGG, and now for the "prime time" of posting about neat new things I'm unable to because I am wearing a different hat. I took today off (to be with my wife, who's been away for more than a week), which is the only reason I can respond now instead of 4 hours from now. That means entire topics are often over and done with before I can make any GR or RGG post, and there's less opportunity for feedback on what I say and back-and-forth with posters.
The prestige effect doesn't seem to help sales or acceptance of 3pp material, either. Sales of RGG are significantly *down* since I became a Paizo developer. Part of that is that not everyone knows RGG is run by a Paizo dev - it's not something I discuss when posting with my Paizo Developer account (I login on separate accounts depending on what thread I am posting on). And if I meet someone through Paizo contacts, I have to wait for a non-official-Paizo opportunity to mention I have other game companies I work with, and I don't ever do that with my Paizo email. Just last week, a freelancer asked me on Facebook if I knew a contact for RGG they could reach out to about potential work. They were surprised that contact was me.
This firewall also relates to topics RGG tackles with products. When I was a freelancer, if Paizo announced something was coming and I wasn't working on it, I could make my best guess about what it might look like and get a product ready. Now I wait until 30 days after a book is out before even thinking about what to do to synergize with it or discussing a tie-in product with a freelancer or artist.
Further, many anti-3pp customers remain anti-3pp even when that 3pp is a Paizo employee. I have had people tell me to my face that if an idea or product of mine was any good, Paizo would publish it, so the fact I am a Paizo employee is "proof" to them that all RGG content is cast-offs Paizo didn't want. Nevermind that's not how Paizo or 3pp or development works.
And while I absolutely have a friendly relationship with Paizo as far as 3pp treatment goes, that's always been true. But since being an employee, I've still been told something I did crossed a line, and had to take it down and make adjustments. (Which happened beforehand rarely too - it's the cost of doing the business of close tie-ins without wanting to annoy the mothership :D )
Now there is certainly increased visibility for me as a Paizo developer, and that may give me more reach than my 117 years of industry experience prior to being hired. And I am absolutely surrounded by brilliant editors, developers, and designers, which means my own skills are increasing, and there's a quality payoff with that. And some kind of prestige bump in sales might come along after 3 years, or 4 years, or some other timeframe I haven't reached.
But the reality is so far I have less time, fewer sales, no more access, and no more apparent product acceptance, than before I was hired. It's still absolutely worth doing, and I very much appreciate that Green Ronin and Paizo allow me to be a formal developer for both companies while also running my own (which is one reason I take firewalling those roles so seriously), but there isn't any obvious "up" side in terms of benefits to RGG.
Aw, c'mon, pretty sure getting hired onto the mothership made everything a lot easier thanks to that prestige effect.I can see why that might seem to be the case... but in practice the opposite appears true.
First, being a Paizo developer is an at-least-full-time job. Certainly it means I can take on a lot less freelance work, and having sick days and vacation days can help manage stress, but it's still (with commute) an average of 50-60 fewer hours each week I have to work on Green Ronin and Rogue Genius products. I have cut back on playing video games, tabletop games, reading, side-projects, and miniature work, and as it is I still run about a 90 hour workweek on average.
Second it's not just the hours doing Paizo stuff, it's the specific hours NOT doing GR/RGG stuff. I can't spend time I'm on the clock at Paizo to answer emails, talk on messageboards, or make business contacts for my other companies. I used to be extremely active as a 3pp poster on behalf of RGG, and now for the "prime time" of posting about neat new things I'm unable to because I am wearing a different hat. I took today off (to be with my wife, who's been away for more than a week), which is the only reason I can respond now instead of 4 hours from now. That means entire topics are often over and done with before I can make any GR or RGG post, and there's less opportunity for feedback on what I say and back-and-forth with posters.
The prestige effect doesn't seem to help sales or acceptance of 3pp material, either. Sales of RGG are significantly *down* since I became a Paizo developer. Part of that is that not everyone knows RGG is run by a Paizo dev - it's not something I discuss when posting with my Paizo Developer account (I login on separate accounts depending on what thread I am posting on). And if I meet someone through Paizo contacts, I have to wait for a non-official-Paizo opportunity to mention I have other game companies I work with, and I don't ever do that with my Paizo email. Just last week, a freelancer asked me on Facebook if I knew a contact for RGG they could reach out to about potential work. They were surprised that contact was me.
This firewall also relates to topics RGG tackles with products. When I was a freelancer, if Paizo announced something was coming and I wasn't working on it, I could make my best guess about what it might look like and get a product ready. Now I wait until 30 days after a book is out before even thinking about what to do to synergize with it or discussing a tie-in product with a freelancer or artist.
Further, many anti-3pp customers remain anti-3pp even when that 3pp is a Paizo employee. I have had people tell me to my face that if an idea or product of mine was any good, Paizo would publish it, so the fact I am a Paizo employee is "proof" to them that all RGG content is cast-offs Paizo didn't want. Nevermind that's not how Paizo or 3pp or development works.
And while I absolutely have a friendly relationship with Paizo as far as 3pp treatment goes, that's always been true. But since being an employee, I've still been told something I did crossed a line, and had to take it down and make adjustments. (Which happened beforehand rarely too - it's the cost of doing the business of close tie-ins without wanting to annoy the mothership :D )
Now there is certainly increased visibility for me as a Paizo developer, and that may give me more reach than my 117 years of industry experience prior to being hired. And I am absolutely surrounded by brilliant editors, developers, and designers, which means my own skills are increasing, and there's a quality payoff with that. And some kind of prestige bump in sales might come along after 3 years, or 4 years, or some other timeframe I haven't reached.
But the reality is so far I have less time, fewer sales, no more access, and no more apparent product acceptance, than before I was hired. It's still absolutely worth doing, and I very much appreciate that Green Ronin and Paizo allow me to be a formal developer for both companies while also running my own (which is one reason I take firewalling those roles so seriously), but there isn't any obvious "up" side in terms of benefits to RGG.
Now can you imagine what it must be like for a NON-Paizo 3PP? Yep, it is THAT crazy.
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They take 20% - if you can actually sell anything through there.Since I'm in a curious mood, how much does the Open Gaming Store/d20pfsrd.com store take?Yes very simply because drivethru takes 25-35%, Paizo takes 25% (or 50% of print), and Kickstarter you loose only 5%, (and about 5% to bad pledges).Do kickstarted projects bring an overall higher revenue than normally released products?
For that matter how about patreon?
There are ways to boost sales. Posting announcements of new products on the Facebook group "Fans of d20pfsrd" seems to help. He has a newletter you can put teaser material into.
It's still not my biggest venue, the the % is great and it's absolutely enough money that UI continue to work on ways to expand sales there.
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Now can you imagine what it must be like for a NON-Paizo 3PP? Yep, it is THAT crazy.
\
I don't have to imagine Louis. I was a Non-Paizo 3pp much longer than I haven't been.
What I am saying is, being not a Paizo employee made my 3pp business both easier and more profitable.
It's THAT crazy.
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reach than my 117 years of industry experience prior to being hired. .
Well... that explains why the advanced bestiary is so damn scary. I didn't know you were an actual outsider.
I hope you put that 117 years to use in the strange eons project.
Now can you imagine what it must be like for a NON-Paizo 3PP? Yep, it is THAT crazy.\
I don't have to imagine Louis. I was a Non-Paizo 3pp much longer than I haven't been.
What I am saying is, being not a Paizo employee made my 3pp business both easier and more profitable.
It's THAT crazy.
I KNOW. That wasn't for you. It was for all the non-publishers reading this thread. :-)
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Always figured you were like the BBC. Your business model never looked quite like the others :PWell my business model has been forced to constantly evolve, with changes like "Get bought out from the well-known company and start your own," and "Somehow survive doing this while also being a developer for Paizo and Green Ronin."
There's a trick to balancing all that.
...
Or so I am told...
Isn't that trick, "Team up with other badass designers and create beautiful rhapsodies of game design on paper?" :D
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***
Public money and customer data is out there for ALL Kickstarters. Just go look at who has the most backers that tells you who has the most customers.
1. Deep Magic by Kobold Press
2. Advanced Bestiary by Green Ronin
3. Wicked Fantasy by John Wick
4. Ultimate NPCs by Nord Games
5. Scarred Lands by Onyx Path
6. Southlands by Kobold Press
7. Rappan Athuk by Frog God Games
8. Spheres of Power by Adam Myers
9. The Lost Lands: The Lost City of Barakus by Frog God Games
10. City State of the Invincible Overlord by Judges Guild.***
Not going to touch on the other comments because I honestly can't speak to their accuracy one way or another, but I don't think this bit is entirely accurate. Spheres of Power has exploded since the Kickstarter. I had never heard of Adam Meyers, and despite having worked with Owen before didn't know he had anything to do with SoP until after it was available to the general public, but since that time I've seen its popularity spread like wildfire, taking multiple forums by storm and becoming a go-to system for players disenchanted with Vancian mechanics. Conversely, John Wick's Wicked Fantasy has gotten very little press or discussion since its release, and much of the discussion has been negative due to the terrible lack of balance and consistency in the book. All that the Kickstarter numbers can really tell you, especially for books that released a year or more ago, is what companies were able to bankroll a product based on their reputation. John Wick is a big name in TTRPGs and an industry vet of some fame, and had a lot more initial support for his product than Adam Meyers did, but since then Wicke Fantasy has essentially sunk into obscurity while Spheres of Power has continued to gain momentum consistently. Similarly, Ultimate Psionics was another Kickstarted product that didn't even hit the above list but which has become synonymous with high-quality 3pp work and is a book often referenced as being allowed at tables with the same trust and acceptance as an actual Paizo product.
I think the "look at their Kickstarter numbers" really only tells you how popular a given company was at that particular point in time. It certainly gives some indication; I would also assume that Kobold Press is close to the top of the "most successful 3pp" list, but I think both the above metric and the OPs kind of fail in doing more than giving the loosest estimate of what individual product holds the title of "most popular 3pp Pathfinder product".
What I've heard of historical performance of products for Paizo and WotC (and I can't really speak as to how accurate this is) would indicate that Frog God Games, while certainly in the running for most successful 3pp company, probably wouldn't win most popular individual product because their products are high price point GM-oriented books, which typically have much lower sales numbers since they're aimed at a small portion of a small portion of the TTRPG market (though if I recall some of Sean Reynolds commentary about GM-oriented products back in the 3.5 days, are often more cost effective to produce and have better profit margins than the higher selling player supplements).
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reach than my 117 years of industry experience prior to being hired. .Well... that explains why the advanced bestiary is so damn scary. I didn't know you were an actual outsider.
I hope you put that 117 years to use in the strange eons project.
Hmmmmmm....
I'll claim that's, a typo, and that I meant 17 years.
That seems the most reasonable answer. :)
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What I've heard of historical performance of products for Paizo and WotC (and I can't really speak as to how accurate this is) would indicate that Frog God Games, while certainly in the running for most successful 3pp company, probably wouldn't win most popular individual product because their products are high price point GM-oriented books, which typically have much lower sales numbers since they're aimed at a small portion of a small portion of the TTRPG market
Frog God Games has a lot of high-end collectors who pick up everything of theirs, often in expensive formats. I wouldn't try to apply conventional wisdom to their business plan.