Thanks for all of the hard work!
You are a life saver to many, I presume!
Amazing work!
Hello folks! Last week I posted a class feat chart for the character class I was considering, and even though I haven't even finished making that character yet, the chart project grabbed my interest to the point that I've now finished up all the classes from the Core Rulebook and the Advanced Player's Guide. You can view them here:
Nice work.
Adding this to my own pf2 resource site if you don't mind. LINK
These are fantastic! So glad you ended up making these for the rest of the classes.
I will be sharing this thread with my friends, in case they want some sense of direction with their characters. Thank you for the effort to put this together.
Maybe just a + sign to indicate the feats that you get early? (and possibly a - for the ones you get late, it those exist)
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Thank you for the dedication Nik Gervae!!! The design is clear and easy to understand. An awesome resource !
These charts are awesome.
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Very nice and a lot of good ideas for presentation (columns with easy colors, action costs, traits, and of course the levels column and the links for prerequisites, as well as those to AoN). Awesome value you bring us here.
A few modifications I propose :
1. We need a way to immediately understand what the Class names mean in, for example, the Archer Dedication. The way it currently reads is confusing at first. Maybe modify the titles to something like "Archer-specific feats", "Fighter feats", "Ranger feats".
2. To indicate the source of the feat, I think you should use an acronym (CRB, APG ...) like they used to in the Player Companion line IIRC. Just put it above the feat to distinguish it from the traits below it. And incorporate it in the legend.
3. Doing this will allow you to use the format of the feat box itself to show another type of info. I would use it to distinguish between usual Archetype (Class) feats and Archetype Skill feats, as I believe such a distinction to bring good value.
4. When I build a character and check the guides, I would love to be able to compare the ratings for each item (Class feats in this case). I would enjoy having a single Class file with all ratings together (say on the right of the feat) for ease of comparison. And likely another class file with no rating for those who do not want them.
5. Maybe indicate in the feat's box which stat it impacts, as a quick reminder / clue. Those who are interested can then go to AoN and check the complete description.
Awesome job, really. I hope you can do the Ancestries one of these days. And also the Skill feats :-D
Thank you very much.
I'd also like to see the page number if these are updated to include source
I think the differentiated outline works really well for showing off source! Sufficiently different colors and/or textures/designs would work fine -- surely OmniGraffle (assuming that's what you're using) has some outline options, right?
I notice that alchemist still has 'powerful alchemy' as a feat and not a class feature, as the most recent errata has established.
I have a very old copy of OmniGraffle Pro. The OmniGraffle folks want four hundred bucks for an upgrade. Not gonna happen. :-(
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Full disclosure : I do not know the software involved and thus have no idea what is easy to do and what is a veritable nightmare. Do not go to the nightmare ;-)
Yes this was my first try at a dedication so I just slapped something on the grouping boxes. I don't think I would want to do functional groupings like with the base classes, there aren't enough feats to justify it. I'll think about a compact yet clear way of indicating base class borrowings, though. Maybe even something as simple as "From Fighter" would be clear enough. (Most of the following is about how much info can be crammed in.)Very nice and a lot of good ideas for presentation (columns with easy colors, action costs, traits, and of course the levels column and the links for prerequisites, as well as those to AoN). Awesome value you bring us here.
A few modifications I propose :
1. We need a way to immediately understand what the Class names mean in, for example, the Archer Dedication. The way it currently reads is confusing at first. Maybe modify the titles to something like "Archer-specific feats", "Fighter feats", "Ranger feats".
Quite right. It is just because when I first opened the Archer PDF, I did not understand right away why I was seeing the charts for the Fighter and the Ranger side-by-side with that of the Archer ;-)
Note : the title of the chart is easy to miss because the eye is attracted to the colored boxes and the title is grey rather than black, on a white background, so nothing eye-catching to it.
2. To indicate the source of the feat, I think you should use an acronym (CRB, APG ...) like they used to in the Player Companion line IIRC. Just put it above the feat to distinguish it from the traits below it. And incorporate it in the legend.Yeah, this is going to be a serious issue the more books that come out. (And there are already dedications in some of the Lost Omens books, for example.) There's already too much text in and around the feat boxes in my opinion so I'm not sure what to do here. It's also a lot of work to redo what's already done. I relied pretty heavily on the hyperlinks to Archives of Nethys for the additional info—the main goal of the charts is just to lay the basic info out so you can budget your build at each level. Anything beyond "can I meet the prereqs and fit it?" has to really be worth the trouble.
Putting book initials to, say, the upper-left of each box might work, but it's gonna make things mighty busy, and busy is the enemy of useful. Page numbers would add to the busy as well.
Then you might just as well not indicate this piece of information. What value does it add? That will free the colors of the feat boxes to provide another more useful info. The link to AoN is quite enough really.
Unless you feel people would be interested in something like Core-Only feats. Then I would propose to have one color for the RPG line, another for the Lost Omens line and a third for what comes from the APs line. I do not remember another line of products that introduce feats right now.
Or maybe the feats boxes' colors might be used for Rarity.
3. Doing this will allow you to use the format of the feat box itself to show another type of info. I would use it to distinguish between usual Archetype (Class) feats and Archetype Skill feats, as I believe such a distinction to bring good value.
I did not see any comment on this, while I still believe it is a useful info for the reader. If you use the color of the feat box to indicate another info like source or rarity, maybe the color of the font can be used to distinguish between the 2 types of feats, say black font for regular and blue font for skill feats.
4. When I build a character and check the guides, I would love to be able to compare the ratings for each item (Class feats in this case). I would enjoy having a single Class file with all ratings together (say on the right of the feat) for ease of comparison. And likely another class file with no rating for those who do not want them.I'm not sure what you're asking for here. The PDFs are currently designed to be one class per file, with all ratings to the right of each feat. Or are you just putting that in contrast to files without?
I can easily generate PDFs with no ratings from the source document (as I have already produced some with ratings from different guides), but any rearranging is, again, a ton of work.
Good point. Actually, I think now that it would work better with only one file per Class / Dedication : the first page would be free of any ratings and the following pages would be the ones giving the ratings with one page per guide (you are currently doing one PDF file per class / dedication per guide).
5. Maybe indicate in the feat's box which stat it impacts, as a quick reminder / clue. Those who are interested can then go to AoN and check the complete description.You tell me where the heck I could fit them, and I might consider it. :-D
Actually could you give me some examples of class feats where the stat it impacts is relevant to choosing? This isn't something I ever thought of in choosing feats, myself.
I think I was not clear using the word "stats". I was thinking of whether a feat has an impact on a save, AC, attack, damage, this kind of things.
I believe that might be an interesting info that readers can use as a guide to check in AoN what the feat actually does, rather than checking all feats blindly.
BTW : once again, excellent idea and much appreciated to put the links to AoN on the feats' boxes.
Awesome job, really. I hope you can do the Ancestries one of these days. And also the Skill feats :-DThank you very much.
Give 'em an inch, they want a mile. ;-)
Ancestries have so few feats I don't think it's worth the trouble. Skill feats might be, for certain skills..
We have an expression for this in France : the ransom of success :-D
It is only natural that we you create an excellent product, people ask for even more of the same quality. Just ask Paizo ;-)
I was asking for those so that when I create a character I would just need your files and be set.
A great value I see in them is that they free me from clicking around in AoN to sift the feat tables line by line to see what is connected.
They have the potential to become a required tool for all players (and GMs who want to create PC-like NPCs), on par with Pathbuilder, an app which I hold in tremendous regard.
Really an enormous thank you for the work involved. Now I just need to find a good way to copy/paste them efficiently (likely in Excel) when I want to create a build and play around with assigning the feats to each level.
Note : you might consider adding the Class features (and not only the Class feats) for when we will get Class archetypes that will change those.
There's "Pro" and there's the standard version. I haven't looked lately, but it may be the $249 is the standard version. IAC, I'll take another look. Although given I haven't even run it for at least five years, cool as it is I probably don't really need it, except to look at these. :-)
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I love these charts. I use them often.
Investigator is missing "Just the Facts". I would also like to suggest splitting the Recall Knowledge feats into their own category as there are quite a few and I feel they are distinct from the others they are grouped with. I actually ignored and was unaware of many of them for a while as I do use your charts a lot and they were mixed in with the Investigation category.
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I've always loved this resource, although it appears the link is now dead. Sad times.
I've always loved this resource, although it appears the link is now dead. Sad times.
That's too bad. They were amazing!