Sigfried mcWild's page

The wording in the Step 3 section of page 445 is problematic as it implies that a roll can be both a success and failure at the same time if we take it very strictly:

if your result is equal to or greater than the DC, you succeed!

the Step 2 section defines "result" as the roll + total modifier

If your roll anything less than the DC, you fail

"roll" is used to mean the unmodified result of the die (even in the Step 2 section just above)

So with a DC 15 and a modifier of +5 a roll of 12 is both a success (12+5 >= 15) and a failure (12 < 15).

This is obviously dumb, and the intent is perfectly clear: a roll that is not a success is a failure, meaning we can ignore the second clause and move on with our lives.

The only one I spot is that alchemists are still listed to only get light armour proficiency upgrades at lvl 13 and 19.

That specific line appeared in the v1.0 errata pdf and is still present in the online FAQ

I hope the online FAQ gets some love soon cause at the moment it is dreadfully bad, we don't even know what changes are supposed to have made it to the 2nd printing or how to tell if new things get added in the future.

It's not even sorted.

- Pin to the Spot works on a simple hit with a Strike within reach. It doesn't require any particular weapon. And then it gives the effect of a critical success on a grapple. Without requiring a free hand or weapon with the grapple trait, by the way. You can just greatsword or polearm pin someone to the spot. And it doesn't increase MAP either. Restrained causes flat-footed, immobilized and prevents manipulate actions and attacks other than to Escape. This feat is pretty bonkers. Just imagine this in the hands of a polearm fighter who at that level already has Legendary attacks.

Pin to the Spot is an activity that requires a strike, so MAP would still apply to that? Similar activities like Sudden Charge don't have the attack trait either.

A quick note on the fighter proficiencies:
in the 2nd printing Fighters get proficiency with all unarmed attacks, just at the "slow" rate they get it for weapons that are not in their chosen group (ie Expert at 1, Master at 13, Legendary at 19)

And that statement was written before the 2nd printing made it redundant.

I guess neither of us is going to move from their position and finds the other insistence on theirs a little silly.

I shall move on and wish you good games.

Sigfried mcWild wrote:

That entry predates the 2nd printing

Nothing in the 2nd printing or the 2nd errata said/mentioned any alteration of existing errata that isn't explicitly called out.

Are we really arguing "Paizo went and updated all the class features that grant weapon proficiency and added wording for how unarmed attacks interact with the fighter proficiencies, but totally intended for the blanket statement that would make all that work redundant to hold?"

They made changes in the 2nd printing to match the overall direction of that faq entry. Every class raises their unarmed proficiency to keep up with their weapon proficiency (which was missing in the first printing).

In the fighter case the change notes that the proficiency for unarmed attacks depends on their weapon group, like it does for simple, martial, and advanced weapons.

Compare:

Choose one weapon group. Your proficiency rank increases to master with the simple and martial weapons in that group, and to expert with the advanced weapons in that group.

Your proficiency rank increases to master with the simple weapons, martial weapons, and unarmed attacks in that group, and to expert with the advanced weapons in that group.

Your proficiency ranks for simple and martial weapons increase to master. Your proficiency rank for advanced weapons increases to expert.

You can select one weapon group and increase your proficiency ranks to legendary for all simple and martial weapons in that weapon group, and to master for all advanced weapons in that weapon group.

Your proficiency ranks for simple weapons, martial weapons, and unarmed attacks increase to master. Your proficiency rank for advanced weapons increases to expert.

You can select one weapon group and increase your proficiency ranks to legendary for all simple weapons, martial weapons, and unarmed attacks in that weapon group, and to master for all advanced weapons in that weapon group.

Your proficiency ranks for simple weapons, martial weapons, and unarmed attacks increase to legendary, and your proficiency rank for advanced weapons increases to master.

Your proficiency ranks for simple weapons, martial weapons, and unarmed attacks increase to legendary, and your proficiency rank for advanced weapons increases to master.

Progression for unarmed attack proficiency has been added at every step, but always gated behind the weapon group selection. The original FAQ was just a quick fix until they got this done.

And yes the first printing granted legendary proficiency with unarmed at 19 after no other progression, I just noticed that.

That entry predates the 2nd printing

FAQ wrote:

Changes to All Classes for Unarmed Attack Proficiency and Benefits

Any class feature that improves the proficiency rank or grants the critical specialization effect access for simple weapons or a specific set of weapons, that ability also grants that benefit for unarmed attacks.

So if you increase Polearms to Master at Level 5, your unarmed attacks also become Master.

This has been superseded in the 2nd printing. There is no general rule and each class feature that improves proficiency also mentions unarmed.

Fighter weapon mastery explicitly only applies the higher proficiency to a single weapon group

Choose one weapon group. Your proficiency rank increases to master with the simple weapons, martial weapons, and unarmed attacks in that group, ...

Nethys

Technically any creature that isn't neutral has alignment traits:

If your alignment has any components other than neutral, your character gains the traits of those alignment components.

The trait being explicit sounds like a minor editing issue?

For the insult at adversaries angle, training Intimidation up and using Demoralize is probably the best bet. As an upside you don't need to dip in Bard to access that

The main benefit of the chirugeon feature is that you get to use int instead of wis to heal.

You still need medicine as a prerequisite for the feats.

I said they suffer from MAP tho. Even bolded the 'do'

Many apologies for my brain fart

Now a fascinating question is if Assurance on Athletics overrides map:

You can forgo rolling a skill check for that skill to instead receive a result of 10 + your proficiency bonus (do not apply any other bonuses, penalties, or modifiers).

Link

Squiggit is incorrect.

MAP is not applied to Attack Rolls, it's applied to all checks with the attack trait:

Every check that has the attack trait counts toward your multiple attack penalty, including Strikes, spell attack rolls, certain skill actions like Shove, and many others.

Unless we're trying to argue that a Shove would increase MAP but not actually suffer from it, which seems weird since the entire section is written in terms of "attack" not "attack roll".

In the absence of anything I else I'd read

A free action with no trigger follows the same rules as a single action (except the action cost)

You have to spend all the actions of an activity at once to gain its effects.

To imply the free action can be taken when you could otherwise take an action, and you cannot insert an action in the middle of an activity.

If you look at the wizard class description you will see increases to spell attack/cd proficiency in the list of features you get at higher levels.

There's a whole thing in the flanking description about how you have to be wielding a melee weapons.

you must be wielding melee weapons or be able to make an unarmed attack

It's not that restrictive, and it's entirely possible to be wielding a melee weapon and be able to make a ranged attack either with a hand crossbow, one of the guns from the playtest or a throwing weapon.

Similarly fists require a free hand (which you have with a bow, see p279), but there's many unarmed attacks that don't that are easily accessible, even if we want to ignore the possibility of kicking or headbutting.

Somatic

A somatic component is a specific hand movement or gesture that generates a magical nexus. The spell gains the manipulate trait and requires you to make gestures. You can use this component while holding something in your hand, but not if you are restrained or otherwise
unable to gesture freely.

Material or foci however:

Material

A material component is a bit of physical matter consumed in the casting of the spell. The spell gains the manipulate trait and requires you to have a free hand to retrieve and manipulate a material component.

Focus

A focus is an object that funnels the magical energy of the spell. The spell gains the manipulate trait and requires you to either have a free hand to retrieve the focus listed in the spell or already be holding the focus in your hand. As part of Casting the Spell, you retrieve the focus (if necessary), manipulate it, and can put it away again if you so choose.

Can Spell Blending gnerate an extra lvl 10 spell slot? I'd say the intent is no, but Spell Blending does not interact with the spell slot granted by Legendary Spellcaster so it's technically not affected

Rules are hard to write

The Divine Font issue annoys me a lot, but as I was rereading the text of the updated Miraculous Spell I noticed that the wording is:

You can’t use this spell slot for abilities that let you cast spells without expending spell slots or that give you more spell slots.

Emphasis mine.

Unlike other abilities like, for example, Drain Bonded Item Divine Font does not interact with the spell slot granted by Miraculous Caster at all and so, I would argue, circumvents the restriction.

You mileage may vary.

Thanks for all the work you are putting into this

Prone is great for aimed shooting at long range, but is it good for shooting the guy that's 10 feet away and running around you? Or the guy right next to you when you need to aim way up?

You could take a page out of the unbalanced rules and allow negating the penalty with an interact action if you feel really strongly about it.

I can repro that too.

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It would be cool if monster statblocks included which "column" they picked for each stat.

Too much wasted space for the books, but something like the online resources could do it (with just a lot of data entry work) and it could help people figure out the patterns

I guess the text of the broken condition for armour is slightly ambiguous:

A broken object can’t be used for its normal function, nor does it grant bonuses—with the exception of armor. Broken armor still grants its item bonus to AC, but it also imparts a status penalty to AC depending on its category: –1 for broken light armor, –2 for broken medium armor, or –3 for broken heavy armor.

I can see 2 readings:

I personally think 2 is the correct reading, since the "armour exception" is presented as part of the first sentence with no other qualifiers, suggesting armour ignores the whole sentence.

I understand you i really do but that is another issue If i pick another feat what happen with the flavor of finally transforming into your big FURRY animal instinct!!!

I see this like a Flavor and a Reward:
Flavor: you finaly are level 8 congrats and now you can transforming yourself into a cool Black Lion.
Reward: You finaly are level 8 congrats but you will gain nothing with this feat.

From my point of view animal instinct is already letting you get all the "good" (read combat related) parts of turning into your animal. You get the attack, you get extra damage, you get to rage.

This is for fully turning into the animal, which doesn't necessarily give you more power, after all by level 8 you are more dangerous than most animals already, but can let you borrow other (read non directly combat related) traits and possibly let you do interesting role playing things.

I could be way off, but that's my read on what the feat's for.

Maybe just a + sign to indicate the feats that you get early? (and possibly a - for the ones you get late, it those exist)

I thought combat generally took place at the same instant every round...

Ish

The narrative is that everything is happening more or less at once, but the rules work on every turn completing before the next one begins.

As the other have said the order change is to ensure that your allies have a chance to help you before you make the death check

Ooops, yeah, I meant Finesse not Agile, derp

Doing a proper scan of the list, the nunchaku fits the bill, but would have to get proficiency somehow.

Otherwise the only other Finesse blunt weapon I see are Light Mace and Fists

d6 deadly d8 seems to be slightly less damage than a d8 weapon in general. But thief still has the advantage of having the freedom to "dump" str.

Now if only I could find an agile d6 blunt weapon...

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand we're back to the start!

What does "normal" mean?

Thanks for all the work you put into this

Asking people to roll initiative for the next combat at the end of an fight is an idea I've seen in several places.

It doesn't have to be done by the GM, just get them to roll as part of the end of fight cleanup and then when the next fight happens you can just go.

We disagree on how to read "normal".

You are reading normal to be "always increase MAP". This is "the norm" because multiple attacks occur most often during your turn and MAP increased between attacks on your turn.

I'm reading normal to be "only increase MAP during your turn". This is "the norm" because the rules clearly state that MAP is only increased during your turn.

Can we agree the text is ambiguous?

Normal on a readied action is the MAP you had at the end of your turn, though.

Thanks for pointing that out.

I'll amend my statement to: "when using Flurry of Blows outside your turn, MAP will not increase between the 2 Strikes"

Quote:

Make two unarmed Strikes. If both hit the same creature, combine their damage for the purpose of resistances and weaknesses. Apply your multiple attack penalty to the Strikes normally. As it has the flourish trait, you can use Flurry of Blows only once per turn.

The action that was Readied was Flurry of Blows. When the reaction is used, we use the Flurry of Blows action.

So no, a character could not avoid the MAP on the second Strike.

The multiple attack penalty applies only during your turn, so you don’t have to keep track of it if you can perform an Attack of Opportunity or a similar reaction that lets you make a Strike on someone else’s turn.

Link

I guess we disagree on how to read "as normal". My reading that outside your turn there is no MAP, so as normal would be "don't apply any map"

Awesome work, thanks for all the effort you are putting into this

As a thought for displaying the information: tool tips on the graph showing the fully worked out numbers for the level the mouse is hovering

The off hand weapon support is awesome, thanks so much.

Now I can properly compare rapier vs short sword vs rapier+short sword for my rogue

Thanks for the update, take your time and don't burn yourself out

Furthermore, there is precedent for abilities to not provide failure effects on a critical failure. This is mot evident in the Press feature, and isn't precisely appropriate to mention, but it once again aligns with the intent that the result doesn't change unless the rules expressly permit you.

The big difference between this situation and the Press feature is that in the case of Press critical failures is denied an advantage that is given to failures, here we're making critical failure BETTER than failure.

While I understand your point, I feel saying "critical failure should always be at least as bad as failure for the one rolling it" is close to the intent.

This sounds cool to have! I will definitly look into a good way to add more than one weapon. Not sure yet how I keep it simple enough, but I will work something out.

Complete spitballing but my thinking is that, since you only need to allow for 2 weapons, you could have a series of checkboxes to enable each weapon at each map.

Trying to render it in text
.............. W1 W2
MAP 0... [] []
MAP -5.. [] []
MAP -10 [] []
MAP -10 [] []

This would also allow to see the effect of things like double slice, where 2 attacks use the same map

Really cool tool, I've just spend way too long playing with it instead of going to sleep.

A couple of wishlist items and a question:

Wishlist 1: Have a way to adjust enemy level instead ac, so we can compare how damage changes against higher or lower level enemies (since the ac ramp is so very bumpy, it's hard to get a good picture across the levels with the ac mod)

Wishlist 2: Multiple weapons, to check out various dual wielding combinations

And for the questions, you said

... I follow the standard ACs from the book

I've gone looking at the tables in the game mastery guide (p62) and none seem to match the values your tool shows, where are you sourcing the AC values from? Or am I misreading something? (I started looking into this when I noticed that lvl 10 has a lower AC than lvl 9)

One again, thanks for the great tool, even if it doesn't give the full picture, I'm having a lot of fun visualizing how different weapons behave