Hi All,
I'm trying to understand if the following is legal. At the start of Adowyn's turn, can she display Leryn to search her current location, see that a barrier is on top, then move to another location? Just trying to understand the timing of the display. Can it happen on another character's turn? At the beginning of Adowyn's turn before her move step?
Thanks,
Rob
Yes, you can play Leryn before your move step and the move. And yes, on another character's turn as well.
You're welcome.
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Yeah, that is legal. She can basically display Leryn as many times as she has cards in her hand. Though, she can only move once. So let's assume she has 5 cards in hand, one of which is a decent weapon and the other 4 are blessings and she doesn't use any other cards during any check. She could...
Display Leryn to examine the top card of her location.
Move to another location.
Recharge a card to pick Leryn up.
Display Leryn to examine the top card of her location.
Explore.
Recharge a card to pick Leryn up.
Display Leryn to examine the top card of her location.
Play a blessing to explore again.
Recharge a card to pick Leryn up.
Display Leryn to examine the top card of her location.
At this point, she'd have no way to explore and have to recharge her weapon to pick Leryn up.
But while this is really safe, it has some drawbacks. First, you didn't have anything to boost your checks, which you'll probably need. Second, you only got 2 explorations. Which, unless you are solo or 2 player, might not be enough to get through the scenario.
I think the only thing that keeps her from recharching her whole hand in this manner is that she can play a card or power only once per step or check, right? Although I am still lost at the fact that an encounter has steps and a turn has steps and if those count in the same manner for this rule.
To elaborate on this, yes, only once per step, whether step of the turn or step of an encounter. But, there are some key differences there too:
A turn has 6 steps. The "end your turn" step is quite prohibitive on playing cards and using powers. Leryn couldn't be used during that step.
You can also play cards ans use powers without limit between the steps of the turn (so long as the card/power applies to what is going on).
If you wanted to, you could recharge your whole hand to repeatedly examine the same top card between the "Give a Card" and "Move" step.
An encounter has 7 steps. All of them are quite prohibitive. You can only ever play cards that relate to what is happening in the encounter. So, while you could shuffle Leryn into your deck for the extra 1d8+AD on your combat check with the Ranged trait, you couldn't do anything else with Leryn during an encounter. No using her to examine the top card. No recharging a card to pick her up.
You can not play cards between the steps of an encounter.
So, for Leryn in particular, the only thing she can do during an encounter is the 1d8+AD and that is only if you are making a combat check with the Ranged trait. Other than that, you can't play her during an encounter.
In practice, I was able to do a lot of scouting with Adowyn in dangerous locations (both for herself and other characters). Sometimes I would acquire cards just to be able to scout with them. Once she has a role card she gets to scout two cards at a time and the power becomes awesome.
By the end of a turn I would be reduced to a single weapon (recharging the Barding was always an interesting decision). When I reset my hand, I would use one of the new cards to scout my current location. That might lead to other players coming in and exploring, allowing me to do more off-turn scouting at my current location. Most of my blind explores came from using mounts that were move+explore once I didn't want to stay at my current location.
Scouting is powerful because:
* failing a check against a bane is usually worse than multiple missed explores
* characters get boons more easily (as opposed to using multiple blessings so that a must-have boon can be acquired by a character with the wrong skills), saving cards now and making characters permanently more powerful
* characters get to use their special powers more often (also a card efficiency)
* locations get set up with henchman and villains on top, avoiding nasty encounters
I think that scouting is overpowered in the existing adventure paths and makes the game less exciting because it minimizes risk (I say this because I've used it extensively in each path, causing my groups to almost never fail a scenario). Alahazra is back in the next path and in the Oracle deck, so I think that there need to be banes with negative effects when they are revealed (either examine or explore, even if evaded). Barriers with cursed glyphs and sanity-reducing monsters would be thematic. Exploration will still be good, but have risks. The risk will make each scouting action feel exciting even though the resulting explores are actually less exciting.
I think that scouting is overpowered in the existing adventure paths and makes the game less exciting because it minimizes risk
I agree scouting is overpowered, and pains should be taken in the next set to address this.
I agree scouting is overpowered, and pains should be taken in the next set to address this.
My foggy recollection from the PACG panel during PaizoCon last year was that this might in fact be addressed in Mummy's Mask. It was a vague comment about how scouting might have have negative consequences. I can imagine a card with text like "If you are examining a card from a deck, $BAD_THING happens to you."
I agree scouting is overpowered, and pains should be taken in the next set to address this.My foggy recollection from the PACG panel during PaizoCon last year was that this might in fact be addressed in Mummy's Mask. It was a vague comment about how scouting might have have negative consequences. I can imagine a card with text like "If you are examining a card from a deck, $BAD_THING happens to you."
As an Adowyn player, I already live in constant fear of Blasphemy Demon and it's "Bury any card you used to scout me" power. Somehow, despite tons of Leryn scouting and eight of the things showing up, I've managed to never scout it so far (in two cases by exactly one card).
As an Adowyn player, I already live in constant fear of Blasphemy Demon and it's "Bury any card you used to scout me" power. Somehow, despite tons of Leryn scouting and eight of the things showing up, I've managed to never scout it so far (in two cases by exactly one card).
Live in fear no longer!
The Blasphemy Demon is immune to the Electricity and Poison traits. If you play a boon that has the Divine trait in a check against the Blasphemy Demon, bury it.
If undefeated, banish a weapon, an item, or an armor that has the highest adventure deck number from your discard pile.
If you played a boon to examine this card, bury the boon.
Leryn, as a cohort, is not a boon. So she is safe.
As an Adowyn player, I already live in constant fear of Blasphemy Demon and it's "Bury any card you used to scout me" power. Somehow, despite tons of Leryn scouting and eight of the things showing up, I've managed to never scout it so far (in two cases by exactly one card).You can be set free from your fear.
Leryn, as a cohort, is not a boon. So she is safe.The Blasphemy Demon is immune to the Electricity and Poison traits. If you play a boon that has the Divine trait in a check against the Blasphemy Demon, bury it.
If undefeated, banish a weapon, an item, or an armor that has the highest adventure deck number from your discard pile.
If you played a boon to examine this card, bury the boon.
Oh, in that case all of our group's scouting is blasphemy free. I sort of had fun fearing the blasphemy demon, so in some ways that's too bad, but it's certainly a relief!
EDIT: Also Leryn is a male wolf, not that it's quite relevant to the discussion.
As an Adowyn player, I already live in constant fear of Blasphemy Demon and it's "Bury any card you used to scout me" power. Somehow, despite tons of Leryn scouting and eight of the things showing up, I've managed to never scout it so far (in two cases by exactly one card).I agree scouting is overpowered, and pains should be taken in the next set to address this.My foggy recollection from the PACG panel during PaizoCon last year was that this might in fact be addressed in Mummy's Mask. It was a vague comment about how scouting might have have negative consequences. I can imagine a card with text like "If you are examining a card from a deck, $BAD_THING happens to you."
Well burying one card is not much of a pain vs the uberbenefits of scouting...
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As an Adowyn player, I already live in constant fear of Blasphemy Demon and it's "Bury any card you used to scout me" power. Somehow, despite tons of Leryn scouting and eight of the things showing up, I've managed to never scout it so far (in two cases by exactly one card).You can be set free from your fear.
Leryn, as a cohort, is not a boon. So she is safe.The Blasphemy Demon is immune to the Electricity and Poison traits. If you play a boon that has the Divine trait in a check against the Blasphemy Demon, bury it.
If undefeated, banish a weapon, an item, or an armor that has the highest adventure deck number from your discard pile.
If you played a boon to examine this card, bury the boon.Oh, in that case all of our group's scouting is blasphemy free. I sort of had fun fearing the blasphemy demon, so in some ways that's too bad, but it's certainly a relief!
EDIT: Also Leryn is a male wolf, not that it's quite relevant to the discussion.
Thanks. I wasn't brave enough to check for myself. Too worried about losing a hand.
Chief Technical Officer
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I agree scouting is overpowered, and pains should be taken in the next set to address this.My foggy recollection from the PACG panel during PaizoCon last year was that this might in fact be addressed in Mummy's Mask. It was a vague comment about how scouting might have have negative consequences. I can imagine a card with text like "If you are examining a card from a deck, $BAD_THING happens to you."
Be careful what you wish for.
Well burying one card is not much of a pain vs the uberbenefits of scouting...As an Adowyn player, I already live in constant fear of Blasphemy Demon and it's "Bury any card you used to scout me" power. Somehow, despite tons of Leryn scouting and eight of the things showing up, I've managed to never scout it so far (in two cases by exactly one card).I agree scouting is overpowered, and pains should be taken in the next set to address this.My foggy recollection from the PACG panel during PaizoCon last year was that this might in fact be addressed in Mummy's Mask. It was a vague comment about how scouting might have have negative consequences. I can imagine a card with text like "If you are examining a card from a deck, $BAD_THING happens to you."
If it's Leryn, it would be such a pain for me, since Leryn not only gives 1d8+AD# in a tight combat spot, I also use him all the time to arbitrarily recharge things and cycle my hand (in addition to losing more scouting potential). When blasphemy demon first appeared, it would have been more painful to lose Leryn than to lose my role card to an umbral dragon (though now I have enough power feats on the role card that this is no longer the case). Of course, this analysis doesn't matter as much now that I know I can't lose Leryn. Plus I just hit AD6 last weekend and am now scared of those guys who have a 1 in 4 chance of eating your role card with no check to avoid it. We've still remarkably not lost yet in 6 player, and hopefully we can somehow continue that streak of luck to the finish line!
As an Adowyn player, I already live in constant fear of Blasphemy Demon and it's "Bury any card you used to scout me" power. Somehow, despite tons of Leryn scouting and eight of the things showing up, I've managed to never scout it so far (in two cases by exactly one card).You can be set free from your fear.
Leryn, as a cohort, is not a boon. So she is safe.The Blasphemy Demon is immune to the Electricity and Poison traits. If you play a boon that has the Divine trait in a check against the Blasphemy Demon, bury it.
If undefeated, banish a weapon, an item, or an armor that has the highest adventure deck number from your discard pile.
If you played a boon to examine this card, bury the boon.Oh, in that case all of our group's scouting is blasphemy free. I sort of had fun fearing the blasphemy demon, so in some ways that's too bad, but it's certainly a relief!
EDIT: Also Leryn is a male wolf, not that it's quite relevant to the discussion.
If you need something to add the fear back in, I heartily recommend trying to pick up a Fortune Teller at your first opportunity, that card is quite simply awesome imo.
Also I've been playing Leryn wrong too, I think I did end up burying him once and making Adowyn very sad :(
As an Adowyn player, I already live in constant fear of Blasphemy Demon and it's "Bury any card you used to scout me" power. Somehow, despite tons of Leryn scouting and eight of the things showing up, I've managed to never scout it so far (in two cases by exactly one card).You can be set free from your fear.
Leryn, as a cohort, is not a boon. So she is safe.The Blasphemy Demon is immune to the Electricity and Poison traits. If you play a boon that has the Divine trait in a check against the Blasphemy Demon, bury it.
If undefeated, banish a weapon, an item, or an armor that has the highest adventure deck number from your discard pile.
If you played a boon to examine this card, bury the boon.Oh, in that case all of our group's scouting is blasphemy free. I sort of had fun fearing the blasphemy demon, so in some ways that's too bad, but it's certainly a relief!
EDIT: Also Leryn is a male wolf, not that it's quite relevant to the discussion.
If you need something to add the fear back in, I heartily recommend trying to pick up a Fortune Teller at your first opportunity, that card is quite simply awesome imo.
Also I've been playing Leryn wrong too, I think I did end up burying him once and making Adowyn very sad :(
Fortune Teller is amazing; Linda makes great use of it with Shardra whenever she can't scout via Knowledge or especially when she has no attack spells in hand "I pick boons. Oh it's a monster, guess not guys!" But I guess we're straying from Adowyn. I'll add a fun Adowyn anecdote: The other day, I accepted Shamira's Gift with Adowyn and, between a Celestial Unicorn and drawing a lot of my deck from Shamira, managed to explore 11 times across two locations in one turn with no infinite loop shenanigans, just lots of allies and blessings. Thanks to the "Animal discard heals 1" power, I wasn't even too badly hurt afterwards. Yay Adowyn!
Hey Mark!
You guys should play OP again sometime! I enjoyed having you over!
But on topic: Leryn is soooooooo good. Makes me sad that even with a Hunter deck in OP she might not be able to get it. (I'm not sure how Cohorts are going to interact with OP; does Alain get his horse when playing?)
Also, I don't care about my role card much in OP, so it's not big if it gets buried. The only benefits I get with it are easier ways to get boons.
But I guess that means that the role card wasn't a big benefit either :(
I think that scouting is overpowered in the existing adventure paths and makes the game less exciting because it minimizes riskI agree scouting is overpowered, and pains should be taken in the next set to address this.
Please remember that you asked for this in eight months. If you don't, I will remind you.
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Please remember that you asked for this in eight months. If you don't, I will remind you.I think that scouting is overpowered in the existing adventure paths and makes the game less exciting because it minimizes riskI agree scouting is overpowered, and pains should be taken in the next set to address this.
Is that confirmation that Mummy will be out in September? ;-)
Also, as I clutch my Alahazra card to my chest, I say, "Scouting is not overpowered. Scouting is the lifeblood. Please don't take away my scouting."
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I don't think scouting is overpowered at all. I find it to be an essential part of the game. If anything, there should be more mechanics like scouting that allow players to tactically circumvent the more devastating effects that crop up throughout the game.
Otherwise, the game can become incredibly frustrating due to all of the random bs that gets thrown in (i.e. Demonic Horde, Arboreal Blight, Army barriers, etc.).
I may have written that it was overpowered, but that didn't stop me from making sure I had excellent scouting abilities (two of them were excellent at visiting multiple locations). Resource management and mitigating risk are the essentials of skillful play in PACG. Fun comes from mastery of skills (real and virtual), ownership, random die rolls, random encounters and pushing your luck. Two of the sources of fun are removed from all players once your scouting is sufficiently good. At that point players will can plot out their actions several turns in advance and only worry about rolling all ones (bah, that would never happen!).
Other than adding a bit of risk to scouting, scenarios/locations where scouted piles are shuffled at the end of each turn would decrease the edge it provides and make it hard for one character to remove all of the surprise from locations. Banes with random behaviour (mongrels and rolling a die for bane powers) also help in this regard.
Please remember that you asked for this in eight months. If you don't, I will remind you.I think that scouting is overpowered in the existing adventure paths and makes the game less exciting because it minimizes riskI agree scouting is overpowered, and pains should be taken in the next set to address this.
I for one, don't think scouting is over powered. There are so many banes now that are auto loose for some characters e.g. a 40 check that the character is rolling a d4 and doesnt have a mythic stat in, happened to me in my last game.
I think scouting needs to stay in the game
Please remember that you asked for this in eight months. If you don't, I will remind you.I think that scouting is overpowered in the existing adventure paths and makes the game less exciting because it minimizes riskI agree scouting is overpowered, and pains should be taken in the next set to address this.I for one, don't think scouting is over powered. There are so many banes now that are auto loose for some characters e.g. a 40 check that the character is rolling a d4 and doesnt have a mythic stat in, happened to me in my last game.
I think scouting needs to stay in the game
Scouting isn't being removed, and nor is Mike implying that it will be. Rather, he's implying that there will be extra risk attached to scouting that really hasn't existed up until now (Wrath has all of one bane that punishes you in some way for scouting it, I'd expect that number to be larger in Mummy's Mask). Such extra risk will make limited strategic scouting still a very effective strategy while making large scale scouting (the kind that breaks game difficulty) a high risk, high reward gambit. At least, that's what I'm getting out of it, and I think that's a good thing.
Please remember that you asked for this in eight months. If you don't, I will remind you.I think that scouting is overpowered in the existing adventure paths and makes the game less exciting because it minimizes riskI agree scouting is overpowered, and pains should be taken in the next set to address this.
I didn't asked for! The others did! It wasn't me Master! I've always luved you Master! Please don't put those nasty things into Ranzak's box! Ranzak's always been nice to you Master! Ranzak likes scouting! Ranzak doesn't want bad thinks to happen to poor littl'gob's! Ranzak hates Mummies! Ranzak doesn't want want to be cursed!
Ranzak sneeks and Ranzak scouts
Ekkie peeks and Ekkie roots
But Mummy curses and also roots (*)
In Goblin purses there be no loots
(*) Ranzak happy Ranzak made a goblin pun
[OK I really need to learn English...]
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Scouting isn't being removed, and nor is Mike implying that it will be. Rather, he's implying that there will be extra risk attached to scouting that really hasn't existed up until now (Wrath has all of one bane that punishes you in some way for scouting it, I'd expect that number to be larger in Mummy's Mask). Such extra risk will make limited strategic scouting still a very effective strategy while making large scale scouting (the kind that breaks game difficulty) a high risk, high reward gambit. At least, that's what I'm getting out of it, and I think that's a good thing.Please remember that you asked for this in eight months. If you don't, I will remind you.I think that scouting is overpowered in the existing adventure paths and makes the game less exciting because it minimizes riskI agree scouting is overpowered, and pains should be taken in the next set to address this.I for one, don't think scouting is over powered. There are so many banes now that are auto loose for some characters e.g. a 40 check that the character is rolling a d4 and doesnt have a mythic stat in, happened to me in my last game.
I think scouting needs to stay in the game
Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm mostly just reserving my right to complain when I see whatever horrors Mummy has for us.
If you need something to add the fear back in, I heartily recommend trying to pick up a Fortune Teller at your first opportunity, that card is quite simply awesome imo.
Question about Fortune Teller and Leryn - is it legal to move, scout, then use FT's ability?
My group was thinking that non-movement-related powers seemed out of place being played during the movement step.Thanks.
I'd think so. You can do basically the same with something like Detect Magic. Whatever you see, use Fortune Teller to encounter it.
Display this card to examine the top card of your location deck
It doesn't specify when, so you can play it at any time (apart from a few exceptions, like during an encounter). You definitely can display Leryn on someone else's turn to examine the top card of your location deck.
While displayed, shuffle this card into your deck to add 1d8 plus the scenario's adventure deck number to your combat check that has the Ranged trait.
While displayed, recharge another card to put this card into your hand.
So after you display Leryn, then he stays displayed until you recharge another card. Even after your turn ends.
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Please remember that you asked for this in eight months. If you don't, I will remind you.I think that scouting is overpowered in the existing adventure paths and makes the game less exciting because it minimizes riskI agree scouting is overpowered, and pains should be taken in the next set to address this.
And I will point a finger at you and shout 'This is all YOUR fault!'
But you can't leave a cohort card displayed AFTER your turn ends, can you?!
Of course you can. How do you think Balazar functions?
But you can't leave a cohort card displayed AFTER your turn ends, can you?! I swear I read in the rule book that you can't...otherwise your hand size practically went up one.
Ben
Displayed cards are not part of your hand. Displayed cards remain displayed until a power indicates otherwise, or until the end of the game if there are no such powers. Displayed cards cannot be discarded for damage or when you would need to discard cards (because they aren't part of your hand).