Supposedly there is about 25,000gp of loot in book 1 of Carrion Crown, and 80,000gp in book 2.
I think a higher than usual amount is easy to miss, or appears to be cursed, or is stuff you can only get if you're willing to steal, or is neither useful nor easy to sell.
If your PCs are tough enough to survive the first three books with whatever they can get, you'll probably catch up during the last three.
Try searching harder?
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I recall CC being pretty low on treasure in general...especially in adventure 2 where
One could argue that the aesthetic of being underprepared ties in with the horror motif.
We have a gnome bard with crazy perception we can't search any harder unless we start taking 20's on every perception role in every room.
Anything else helpful to add?
Did you find a safe somewhere near the entrance?
In that case, it probably isn't your GM being mean.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
In situations like this, my group will tell the GM that their characters are too undergeared to continue, and if possible will then abandon the current 'quest' to go off in search of treasure.
It isn't meant as a passive-aggressive move, just a simple factual statement, we want our characters to survive!
A good GM will either roll with this (whip up a quick side adventure resulting in gear enough to adjust your WBL upwards) or adjust the current adventure.
As always, talking to the GM should be the first step. Perhaps being undergeared is a choice they made on purpose...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This is a horror campaign set in an unpleasant country. Abandon your quest, even temporarily, and the people you were protecting will die, and you will probably be attacked by hideous things with no money out in the wilderness.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
How hard can it be for the DM to "seed" the adventure with a few +1 weapons, shields or other stuff, being used by adversaries against you? As long as it's not PFS, he's free to do what he wants in that regard.
I've never played Carrion Crown, but being light on magic could be a "feature" of this kind of undead-centric campaign. I'd say just roll with it as-is, and be very ready to run for your lives if you come up against foes tougher than you can face, or immune to your attacks.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This is a horror campaign set in an unpleasant country. Abandon your quest, even temporarily, and the people you were protecting will die, and you will probably be attacked by hideous things with no money out in the wilderness.
Too bad for the peasants. :D
My group often plays greedy evil characters.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I began running Carrion Crown casually with friends and Book 1 felt lean from the DM perspective for my PCs to score everything without railroading them into it. I did find the small item drops helpful as a DM to narrate/foreshadow the threats they were facing.
This campaign was meant for Divines and a tag-along that can disarm magical traps if need be. I tried to immerse myself in Gothic/Noir tones when I began running this, gotta take advantage of the Ustalav setting for a nice Low Campaign. Metagaming I believe a Pharasmin Cleric, Paladin (Divine Guide), Oracle (Seeker), and slot four is a tossup between an Inquisitor or a WarPriest or for flavor a Witch would be a really munchy group to cleanse their way through this AP. A coalition of faiths mirroring the Shining Crusade.
I would agree that in a survival-horror aspect, Carrion Crown is succeeding very well. From a previous read-through of the AP, this was not gonna be a high-powered PC romp; in fact I think only Council of Thieves may be lower-threat, with the risks peaking early during the middle acts.
I remember lolling at the music suggestions -this was a thing, apparently. It made me smile to see SotN listed as one of the suggested soundtracks... personally I just like running through Two Steps From Hell's discography.
Yet again I find myself in an odd parrallel with alexd1976. I will in character voice my fears of unpreparedness to the group in the face of increasing challenges. Let's face it, if we wanted moderate wealth generation, we would've stuck to crafting and careers. Adventuring is where rapid fortunes are made and lost.
Case in point, our group happily threw gear at the DM to get a meager 4:1 exchange rate for items we needed; as in weapons we chose and are our size, armor that actually factors in our DEX ranges, and core protective/utility magic items. We didn't even try to sneak in wands, we just wanted equipment to fight with and protect ourselves.
Going back on topic, try playing along -the AP was still fun for me to peruse and offers some cool scenarios that I believe highlighted adventuring in Ustalav (Ravenloft feels) and was a credit to Paizo. Heck, it's the kind of thing that obstinate EL6 DM would love. Should you and your party truly feel that you are being overwhelmed, I think that then would be the correct time to address the DM directly metagame, or choose as PCs in character to engage in side ventures to outfit yourselves for a better chance at success when you get back on the choo-choo.
If you are low on loot it is highly suggested that you insert the module Carrion Hill into the AP for more horror/Cthulthu vibe fun. It fits in PERFECTLY.
Question: did you loot the pHarsmin tomb with the bunch of undead-hunting loot in it? THat was a major payout, from what I remember.
==Aelryinth
@Ryan Casarez
Always bring someone with "trapfinding" or similiar class feature on a Adventure Path.
There are tons of loot that need Disable Device DC30+ on all Paizo APs.
|
Getting a specific big item require to trick a person about the value of a item he is selling, so you need a good appraise roll and bring willing to underpay something (a paladin can object to that).
The already mentioned safe has some stuff too.
There are 3 magic weapons, but I don't recall where we found them.
All included we found a bit less than 25K gp of loot
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
YOu dont need a character with the Trapfinding ability to Open Locks. Trapfinding is only for being able to disable with magical traps.
Opening Saves, Chests and secret rooms are simply Disable Device checks that anybody who invested skillpoints and brought some Thieftools can try. And easily take 20 with, as (most) doors dont bite back if you take your time to get to the treasures on the other side.
Having Disable Device as a classskill only gives +3 to the skillcheck.
I'd recommend getting an adamantine weapon to bash things open instead.
Lots of treasure in book 1 seems to be very well hidden. Our group only found 1 magic weapon.
And somewhere in book 2 we lost our only magic armor.
I left the group near the end of book 2 because I felt the AP sucked.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Yes but due to our party composition non of us have disable device so we can't pick the lock. We may find a key but like I said we are nearly done with the adventure if there is some decent loot in there it may help us with the next chapter but I just feel like we are missing a lot of equipment for our level at the moment.
You ask if your GM is a scrooge and then you admit that your party is not equipped to get the loot provided in the campaign.
This isn't a flaw in the AP, it's a flaw in your group.
Adventuring is DANGEROUS. Anybody brave or stupid enough to choose a life of adventuring in a world full of monsters and magic is a fool. But anybody who wants to do this had better be super mega prepared for everything or he's going to be a dead fool.
Your PCs sound like the "dead fool" kind of PCs.
You, as players, should create PCs who can handle everything. Anybody can put a few ranks into Disable Device and you even have a bard, one of the best classes at being a skill monkey, so the fact that your PCs set out into a deadly world of monsters and magic and possibly facing death many times every day WITHOUT being fully prepared is a mistake on their part (and on the part of the players who made these characters).
The next time you level up, have your bard drop 4 ranks into Disable Device and half of your problem is solved.
And don't be afraid to Take-20 everywhere you can make a Search roll. It's totally worth it. It takes the player less than 5 seconds to say that and then the GM reads the list of what you find. Abso-freaking-lutely worth it. That will solve the other half of your problem.
And now your PCs are actually adventurers, instead of merely "dead fools".
Trapfinding bonus to disable device applies to all disable device checks (Including doors and chests) .In our group composition we always add someone with trapfinding and skill focus (disable device). It's a bit overkill but we want to be safe.
;)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Here's the thing about Carrion Crown: The first couple of books are rough gear-wise. Most of what you get is consumable items. There's one or two very nice stand-out items, but you're not going to get as covered in gold as you would in something like Curse of the Crimson Throne (which literally had my players feel like they had money being thrown at them hand over fist).
However, come book 3, this ceases to be a concern. Hell, Book three alone gives you some very nice things to sell in the form of spellbooks. So, in short... Suck it up, and wait it out. It'll change quickly.
Ryan: That module fits perfectly into the flow of the AP. It's not a 'departure'. IT's one more horror adventure on the way. AND it will give you some more xp and loot if you are lagging behind.
Like I said, it's been recommended as an add-on simply because it fits on so well.
==Aelryinth
| 7 people marked this as a favorite. |
DM_Blake: Sorry but please see my reply to The 20 STR Aristocrat. We don't get together and make "perfect" parties because one we feel like that's meta gaming at its worse and two while I understand that we may not be perfectly equipped to handle locks that doesn't mean there can't be other loot that is not behind locks. There are puzzles, monsters, rewards, and plenty of other ways we can get loot. Just because we didn't bring a lockpicker doesn't mean our party is deficient and shouldn't be punished for that. So please take you negativity elsewhere.
I wholeheartedly disagree. It's not metagaming at all.
And it's not negativity, it's advice.
Would Indiana Jones go off exploring deadly tombs and temples without having studied and prepared for it? Would Navy Seals go into a hostile combat zone and leave half their weapons behind, heck, also leave their demolitions expert behind too? Would a fireman run into a burning building and leave his mask and oxygen behind? Would that same fireman respond to a hi-rise fire in the first place if half of his department was on vacation leave and he didn't have the anyone in his crew who knew how to turn on the hoses to pump the water?
All no. All of it no.
Likewise, your PCs are NOT metagaming at all if one of them says, before you even leave the tavern to go adventuring, "Hey, you know what? Nobody here knows how to find and disable traps. We might die. Maybe we should find another teammate to come with us, even if we just have to hire a local with some skill. Or hey, Barry, you're a smart guy with lots of skills, think you could train yourself to figure this out? I think we're really setting ourselves up to fail if we go into these dangerous locations and we don't know how to deal with all the dangers we think we can anticipate facing".
That's perfectly reasonable, intelligent, and practical. And most definitely not metagaming.
Any character(PC, NPC, whatever) who lives in that world (one with magic and monsters and a billion ways to die in dangerous places) who says "Well, let's go see what happens, even though we're obviously missing critical skills and we're clearly unprepared. Heck, what could possibly go wrong?" is an idiot, or a "dead fool".
You, as players, are absolutely NOT forced to play your characters as idiots. Dropping the "metagaming" label on a player who wants his character to be prepared for danger is dead wrong. Any character choosing this life of dangerous adventure had better plan ahead and prepare for as much as possible or he's choosing the wrong career, and any player playing this character accordingly is simply making good choices.
Play your characters like real people who want to live and prosper and survive the most dangerous career choice in the most dangerous parts of their very dangerous world. That's not metagaming. Quite the opposite. It's good roleplaying. They SHOULD be afraid of that danger. They SHOULD take steps to handle it.
Don't turn them into idiots because someone dropped a "metagaming" label into the discussion (quite wrongly, too).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If professor Lorrimor sent letters to 3 fighters Carrion Crown would be the hardest adventure ever.
Of course a lot of DM adapt the adventure path for his party composition, but you DM is using the Adventure as is written on the AP instead of taking easy on the party for not picking a rogue-like character, and there is nothing bad in that. When you play a adventure path you should adapt your party to it, not the other way aroud.
You could ask the the bard to focus his skill points on disable device or ask the DM if he can re-train his bard as a Archeologist. Your party would greatly benefit from a Archeologist bard on this AP.
Cheers and good look on your undead hunting adventures.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Just from another player's perspective: We were a good-aligned group, so we didn't do a lot of things we were apparently "supposed" to do: Demand payment for every service rendered, and then negotiate that payment to its maximum. Loot everything not nailed down, even in castles you're supposedly visiting.
By the end of Book 3 we were around 1/5 of WBL, and we were all grumbling about the unbelievably cheap AP -- my 9th-level fighter had a +1 adamantine Ghost Touch greatsword he had to craft himself, because he couldn't afford it otherwise. Other magic items? Forget it.
Then the GM ran us through Carrion Hill... and we couldn't stop laughing. The loot in there is so ludicrously over-the-top in comparison to the AP that we were *finally* able to get some decent gear.
And yeah, playing a fighter with no magic items beyond a +1 sword for the first three books is survivable, but requires re-thinking your tactics a bit...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
@Ryan Casarez: Best of luck to you and your party; the forums can be a very forward and blunt place, but this has to be one of the best places to get advice and opinions on this game. I think it happens to be one of the most accurate too. Not to down Reddit, but a lot of their stuff looks like its posted for effect and not as many people fact-check each other.
Case in point to the criticism levelled at you: take it and run with it... or not. It's why the Oracle (Seeker) was placed there on my list. It has Disable Device as a Class Skill and the RAW ability to be able to handle traps as a Rogue can. One of my players ran stereotypical Rogue. The haunts messed his world up, as it was meant to.
To have fun and still prosper, you don't need to be the all-bases covered party because damn near every game will optimally be:
Cleric-Fighter-Rogue-Wizard if you wanted to cover Divine, Melee, Arcane, and Subterfuge.
That being said, APs generally I do not find to be a lethal challenge except in key encounters, but within their focused themes they can and will challenge a party to be varied. If you have these glaring holes in party composition, when you run into that type of threat, you are gonna have a bad day unless you are able to bypass it by mechanics or RP. I'm honest, I've run away from more than one BBEG fight that were were supposed to setpiece, to the DMs ire, yeah, but party survival was foremost in my mind. "Play the way its meant to be handled? Nah... we're just gonna hit it even harder next time instead."
You need somebody that can handle wands and other magical items that drop.
You need someone who can handle traps/devices.
You need a party face/con man.
You need someone who can hold a line and hopefully draw heat.
You need the ability to heal severe debuffs on top of HP loss, and the ability to rez PCs in the future.
You need an answer for enemies that have evasive characteristics (IE, flying) either by range of the ability to bypass it.
If you can't outfight it, can you debuff it to the point where you can?
You need someone who can crowd control, kite, or lock down portions of the battlefield.
I've run groups where newer players happily wandered around banging things around with their sword until they inevitably ran into a threat that was invisible, airborne, and dropping effects that punked their saves. Much fun was had that day; I tried to make them enjoy it as their focus went from winning the fight to surviving the encounter.
TL;DR With your composition the Pally and Witch can do a fine job between them keeping the party alive and touching the foes this AP will throw at you, but a charismatic character that can handle devices will be needed as well -It isn't just Rogue that can handle Magical Traps; the archetypes of other classes can emulate that class feature. Again... Oracle (Seeker), just plug and play your Race/Curse/Revelation combo on it for focused effect because they aren't as versatile as a Cleric, but they can be built to be better than one in a particular task, though the loss of Channeling will be felt in this AP.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Diego Rossi: Yes we did loot the tomb but all we received was the siphon haunts, a few potions, and some holy water. If there was anything else there we didn't get it from the DM.
Spoilers.
Fairly useless as none of us had the money for a bow at first /second level.
Maybe that equipment was hidden somewhere in the safe room? I recall that the equipment cache was well concealed.
|
|
DM_Blake: Sorry but please see my reply to The 20 STR Aristocrat. We don't get together and make "perfect" parties because one we feel like that's meta gaming at its worse and two while I understand that we may not be perfectly equipped to handle locks that doesn't mean there can't be other loot that is not behind locks. There are puzzles, monsters, rewards, and plenty of other ways we can get loot. Just because we didn't bring a lockpicker doesn't mean our party is deficient and shouldn't be punished for that. So please take you negativity elsewhere.I wholeheartedly disagree. It's not metagaming at all.
And it's not negativity, it's advice.
Would Indiana Jones go off exploring deadly tombs and temples without having studied and prepared for it? Would Navy Seals go into a hostile combat zone and leave half their weapons behind, heck, also leave their demolitions expert behind too? Would a fireman run into a burning building and leave his mask and oxygen behind? Would that same fireman respond to a hi-rise fire in the first place if half of his department was on vacation leave and he didn't have the anyone in his crew who knew how to turn on the hoses to pump the water?
All no. All of it no.
Likewise, your PCs are NOT metagaming at all if one of them says, before you even leave the tavern to go adventuring, "Hey, you know what? Nobody here knows how to find and disable traps. We might die. Maybe we should find another teammate to come with us, even if we just have to hire a local with some skill. Or hey, Barry, you're a smart guy with lots of skills, think you could train yourself to figure this out? I think we're really setting ourselves up to fail if we go into these dangerous locations and we don't know how to deal with all the dangers we think we can anticipate facing".
That's perfectly reasonable, intelligent, and practical. And most definitely not metagaming.
Any character(PC, NPC, whatever) who lives in that world (one with magic and monsters and a...
I recall at least one low level 1st edition AD&D adventure where you start in a bar and hear a group of would be adventurers discussing their expedition and the program was "bring lots of big sacks to transport all the loot". I don't recall if we found their dead bodies but it is highly probable.
There are situations where "commoners" are pushed into becoming adventurers but by level 3 you should have covered your bases. You don't need to be great, but at least competent.
I like high intelligence characters so, usually, I have some skill point to spare. By level 3 usually I have at least 1 point in healing (extended care for better recovery, better chance to help a dying friend), climb, swim, survival, some knowledge.
Maybe I will never use them, but not knowing anything about those skills feel unnatural if you are living the life of an adventurer.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Now if your saying that once in the game our characters should try to adapt to our lack of lockpick I wholeheartedly agree but as mentioned before our skill monkey the bard can't crack level 30 locks with 4 skill points and MWK Tools. So we are trying but it's still not enough and I don't want our party to die just because we are missing one skill.
4 ranks, +2 from the masterwork tools = +6, take 20: 26
So you need a +4 from dexterity.Your witch can't cast cat's grace?
If your bard has dexterity 14 or more and she can cast that spell you beat a DC of 30.
The Guidance cantrip give another +1, so he only need a dex of 12. Or if he has a dex of 16 he don't need cat's grace.
Note that a witch is a problematic class in that AP unless she has the right patron and hexes.
|
|
Just from another player's perspective: We were a good-aligned group, so we didn't do a lot of things we were apparently "supposed" to do: Demand payment for every service rendered, and then negotiate that payment to its maximum. Loot everything not nailed down, even in castles you're supposedly visiting.
By the end of Book 3 we were around 1/5 of WBL, and we were all grumbling about the unbelievably cheap AP -- my 9th-level fighter had a +1 adamantine Ghost Touch greatsword he had to craft himself, because he couldn't afford it otherwise. Other magic items? Forget it.
Then the GM ran us through Carrion Hill... and we couldn't stop laughing. The loot in there is so ludicrously over-the-top in comparison to the AP that we were *finally* able to get some decent gear.
And yeah, playing a fighter with no magic items beyond a +1 sword for the first three books is survivable, but requires re-thinking your tactics a bit...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If professor Lorrimor sent letters to 3 fighters Carrion Crown would be the hardest adventure ever.What's the big deal? Sounds like a typical setup for an adventure.
In Call of Cthulhu.
In CoC you are not supposed to win straight up fights but to flee, regroup and find ways around the monsters 'till you find something to help you prevent the world from being overrun by the Old Ones.
Totally different setting.We had two martials and only 1 magic weapon but all big fights (4 of them) were vs incorporeal enemies so 1 PC always sat there watching the others fight.
No reason to be there except a tiny sum of money, which wasn't enough reason to abandon the search for the Whispering way.
After rescuing the beast there was still no reason to go to the castle and even less reason to loot it.
And putting a rust monster in a loot-starved module felt dumb
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
This is a horror campaign set in an unpleasant country. Abandon your quest, even temporarily, and the people you were protecting will die, and you will probably be attacked by hideous things with no money out in the wilderness.Too bad for the peasants. :D
My group often plays greedy evil characters.
I'd like to point out that even good characters are neither required to martyr themselves, nor should they be encouraged to do so. Being ill prepared for heroism is the fastest way to run out of heroes.
Guys, I know you're a paladin and a cleric of Pharasma respectively, but I don't have a magic weapon yet, and that means I have to rely on holy water or someone casting Magic Weapon on my sword for me to be useful sometimes. Let's leave these undead creatures to slaughter the villagers in peace, and find a proper job that supplies us with a regular income.
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Guys, I know you're a paladin and a cleric of Pharasma respectively, but I don't have a magic weapon yet, and that means I have to rely on holy water or someone casting Magic Weapon on my sword for me to be useful sometimes. Let's leave these undead creatures to slaughter the villagers in peace, and find a proper job that supplies us with a regular income.
Either way you get your dog back.
"Either way, you get your dog back."
EDIT: To put it another way, getting yourself killed isn't saving any villagers either.
| 7 people marked this as a favorite. |
In CoC you are not supposed to win straight up fights but to flee, regroup and find ways around the monsters 'till you find something to help you prevent the world from being overrun by the Old Ones.
Totally different setting.
Yeah, I was really surprised by CoC. Fleeing from enemies really seemed like a good idea for a while, but fortunately I found this sweet sword in a corrupted tree that helped a ton, until I turned into a succubus with horns and nine inch heels, then the sword wouldn't let me hold it anymore until Jojo the monk helped me find some inner peace.
Then I slaughtered enough imps to get a lifetime membership to the gym 'cause these muscles ain't gonna grow themselves (okay, they might, but side effects vary), and then outwitted a Sphinx in the desert so I could explore the lair of the sand queens, which was pretty crazy but I made some friends.
Oh...wait, totally different CoC. Yeah, Cthulu...old ones...yeah.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Adventurers should be willing to face danger. Sure, if there's an enemy they have no hope of beating, they can run away, but that doesn't mean giving up without trying because there's a possibility of meeting something stronger than you at some point.
In my own campaign, the party, at level 4, took on a Huge dragon. Does that make them idiots? Well, yes, it probably does. But the dragon turned out to be an illusion, so they walked away looking heroic.
To put it another way, if you get yourself killed, a group of three better equipped PCs will probably turn up the next day to continue the quest.
The OP has already stated that it is exceptionally unlikely for his group to do that in this instance. Plus as-written, Carrion Crown has no reason for "new" characters to come in: it lacks any real comprehensible cohesion to the plot as the characters are not connected to Lorrimor or the Whispering Way plot... unless they are, but that's meta gaming which, while not inherently a bad thing, his group is very against.
That said: if you want to crack that DC 30, could someone give an Aid Another? I'm currently using a different system and, being (temporarily, I hope) stuck on a phone, it's difficult to look rules up, but if you can do that once...
That said, Diego also has a pretty solid idea: a single use of guidebce (or cat's hrace) would fix your problem, if either the witch or bard have it.
Heck, either drag things you want to get into back to town, or clear out a level or two, then go back with help from town - while it might cost a gold or three, you'll more than make up for it (and if they're doing nothing but Aiding you Another, they'll be less expensive).
You seem trapped between a rock and a hard place: your group has a host of expectations that you have to do things <this way>, whereas this module uses different expectations. This is causing a clash.
Carrion Crown is a great AP - but it's meant to be rough... at least at first. Talk with your GM. If you want, you could even get your GM to PM me and we'll talk about stuff'(though apologize in advance if you go this rout: phone leaves my stuff even more typo-ridden than usual), or (better idea) just post here on the forums.
Ultimately, communication is important. Talk to the GM. That's the best first step.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Of course a lot of DM adapt the adventure path for his party composition, but you DM is using the Adventure as is written on the AP instead of taking easy on the party for not picking a rogue-like character, and there is nothing bad in that. When you play a adventure path you should adapt your party to it, not the other way aroud.
Makes you wonder if their GM gave them the needed info before character creation ;-)
Indeed, even the Player's Guide does not warn about this :-/
Hard to blame them for not adapting the party then.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Adventurers should be willing to face danger. Sure, if there's an enemy they have no hope of beating, they can run away, but that doesn't mean giving up without trying because there's a possibility of meeting something stronger than you at some point.
In my own campaign, the party, at level 4, took on a Huge dragon. Does that make them idiots? Well, yes, it probably does. But the dragon turned out to be an illusion, so they walked away looking heroic.
To put it another way, if you get yourself killed, a group of three better equipped PCs will probably turn up the next day to continue the quest.
When your fighter is fighting incorporeal creatures with nonmagical weaponry, remind him that he should try using harsh language instead. It's at least working for the casters.