(Frog God Games) Richard Pett's The Blight Kickstarter

[Andre Roy]

I can also understand GM-Sarc's position (and those who shares it) as it is frustrating when the project you backed gets delayed (happen to me a few times), but from what I can see it was massive to start and got expended quite a lot during the KS...so delays are to be exepcted.

Now the thing to look at is this: Overall, how good are they at delivering the goods?

If overall it's a pretty good track record, then there's no worry. The Delay of The blight is a fluke (albeit a frustrating one). It's when a company consistantly fails to deliver on time one needs to worry.

[davrion]

I can understand backer frustration with a project delay. I would recommend considering the creator's full project delivery record though. Out of 15 projects, 12 have delivered and 2 are brand new. The Blight is the only one that is overdue and IIRC has had the longest delay from the estimated delivery date. Just something to consider if this project has been your only experience in backing their projects, as it is an outlier.

I know there have been many Kickstarter horror stories out there, but FGG always delivers. This one won't be on time, but you will get the product.

[Haladir]

Agreed. FGG isn't Fire Mountain Games, and The Blight isn't Throne of Night

[Befuddled GM]

I do project management with small(ish) companies for a living and have done quite a bit of product development in a resource limited context as a result. From what I have seen I dont see how a new Kickstarter could possible NOT take resources away from the blight at this point.

In previous updates the frogs have indicated that a large part of the delay in the blight is due to unexpected personnel issues that took staff off the project. A couple staff members got sick, one had a baby etc. Having major delays as a result of these kinds of personnel issues tells me they dont have a large staff with a lot of redundancy built in. My guess is they have 1-2 people with the skill set to do layout, 1-2 who can do editing development, 1-2 who handle logistics with printers and shipping etc...

They dont have whole separate project teams that can work concurrently. If a product for the new kickstarter needs layout work then the guy who was working on blight probably has to stop working on the blight to start working on the new project. Likewise with virtually every other phase of product development (with the possible exception of actual authors). Just as important I would imagine that FGG only has 1-2 people with project management experience to help guide and coordinate the process and when those guys are spending time on another project (and even just setting up and managing the kickstarter for the new project is probably a significant investment of hours) then they are not investing that time in getting the blight put together as quickly as possible.

This is especially true in this case as they indicate that the two new projects are already written. Thus they will probably demand the same sort of editing and layout resources that blight is currently demanding. If the new project were in the brainstorming phase it would be a little different.

I am sure its not wholly zero sum. 1 hour on the new project doesnt necessarily mean an hour taken off of the blight but given the size of the company its pretty hard to believe that starting up a second product line wont significantly impact the one in development. During some of their updates they have even admitted that the Bards Gate kickstarter caused delays in the Blight but that it couldnt be helped.

Will the product get to us? I have no doubt it will. But when you have already accepted a LOT of customer money for a product that is MASSIVELY overdue I think its pretty bad from an optics standpoint to turn around and divert ANY resources from that product to a new project.

[Haladir]

Befuddled GM wrote:

Will the product get to us? I have no doubt it will. But when you have already accepted a LOT of customer money for a product that is MASSIVELY overdue I think its pretty bad from an optics standpoint to turn around and divert ANY resources from that product to a new project.

By the standard of other RPG Kickstarters I've backed so far, the delays with The Blight are pretty far from "Massive." It's been pretty average, actually.

Again, I have full faith in Frog God's ability to produce. With RPG materials, I would rather have a great product that's a few months late than a mediocre product that's on time.

[Steve Geddes]

EDITTED: due to misunderstanding what people were talking about. :p

[Rednal]

*Coughs slightly* I think he's referring not to Alternative Facts, but to the new Mountains and Marshes books they're doing a Kickstarter for.

[Steve Geddes]

Rednal wrote:

*Coughs slightly* I think he's referring not to Alternative Facts, but to the new Mountains and Marshes books they're doing a Kickstarter for.

Ah. I misunderstood. Cheers. I didn't receive any notification that a new kickstarter had launched.

Given that, my view doesn't really change (I think the staff requirements at the beginning of a project are quite different from that at the end), although I concede that the chance it will have an impact is more likely.

[GM_Sarc]

Unfortunately it doesnt sound like the two new projects are really at the beginning phase. From what has been said in the other thread about the new books it would seem they have already been fully written and will immediately be in the editing / layout phase when the kickstarter is done. Unfortunately I think thats basically the exact same phase as the blight...

[Steve Geddes]

Like I say, I haven't heard anything about the new project (is it live yet or is it just 'announced for future release'? I think that makes a difference too).

I thought you were talking about Alternative Facts (which just funded).
Sorry for the confusion.

[Andre Roy]

Steve Geddes wrote:

Like I say, I haven't heard anything about the new project (is it live yet or is it just 'announced for future release'? I think that makes a difference too).

I thought you were talking about Alternative Facts (which just funded).
Sorry for the confusion.

Live as of late last night

[Zhern]

I believe it was mentioned in one of The Blight updates that the main book was still in development while the smaller pieces were in layout. Given that, they are probably staggered enough that Mountains of Madness and Marshes of Malice shouldn't cause much, if any, churn.

[KarlBob]

I plan to run a Levee campaign as soon as the main Blight book becomes available. Based on the latest Kickstarter update, it sounds like The Crooked Nail (1st level intro adventure) will probably be published a month or more ahead of the main book. Will there be notes in the big book on how to bring characters from The Crooked Nail into Levee, Part 1, or would it work better to use The Crooked Nail as a one-shot, and have my players make new characters for Levee?

[toxycycline]

I would seriously doubt that any extra word count would be expended to specifically mention an unrelated one shot adventure.

Now I have no special insight, but I see no reason why you couldn't run Crooked Nail on its own before running Levee. With or without the same characters.

[Richard Pett]

So...

Spoiler:

in Levee the start specifically brings in PCs from a given location and what happens there is pivotal to the events in the AP. I'm sure you could work a way around this but we are looking at the AP as one separate whole and the other adventures as something else. That said everything is possible but I'd advise running Levee as an entity in is own right.

[KarlBob]

Richard Pett wrote:

So... ** spoiler omitted **

Thank you very much for the quick answer.

Spoiler:

I played through the first adventure of Levee at PaizoCon 2015, so I understand what you're referring to. When the main book comes out, I suspect that my players would enjoy using the campaign traits, races, etc., so running Crooked Nail as a one-shot should work out just fine.

[Zhern]

From Bill on the Perilous Vistas thread:

Quote:

There is almost no overlap on project teams. The Blight is Greg's baby. The only overlap is editing and conversion folks, and they are not bottlenecked. Greg just had a tougher semester of med school than we figured, and the book was much bigger. So were the adventures.

We will get there. 14 kickstarters, delivered 11, 5 were late, 3 were early, 3 are still in prgress. The Blight is one of those.

[Endzeitgeist]

Just wanted to chime in and say that the Frogs have my total and utter confidence regarding the delivery of any book; they may overshoot the date, but personally, I'd rather have an amazing book than a pretty good one. I mean, these guys made Sword of Air, one of the best adventures I have ever read. And they *WILL* deliver. They're the guys that un-vapor-ware'd frickin' Razor Coast. And I know that they would not start another KS if there would be a chance for overlap/further delay of Blight.

[Zhern]

Exactly, Endzeitgeist!

[Elorebaen]

Endzeitgeist wrote:

Just wanted to chime in and say that the Frogs have my total and utter confidence regarding the delivery of any book; they may overshoot the date, but personally, I'd rather have an amazing book than a pretty good one. I mean, these guys made Sword of Air, one of the best adventures I have ever read. And they *WILL* deliver. They're the guys that un-vapor-ware'd frickin' Razor Coast. And I know that they would not start another KS if there would be a chance for overlap/further delay of Blight.

What Endz said.

[Skeeter Green]

Skeeter Green here-

I won't go into too much detail, as that is the fertile ground of one Mr. Greg Vaughan. I will say, however, that The Blight and both Perilous Vistas books are in very different stages of "done". One book is in development, one book is done, and another book is "done", with final edits/checking and final layout being completed.

Its not my place to say what book is where, as I am not managing those titles. I will say that there is no overlap of responsibilities, and while we are all very busy, one book is not taking away from another.

And I fully understand not backing a Kickstarter while a previous Kickstarter is outstanding. That is a personal decision, and one we respect, just like not backing a Kickstarter at all; that is always our fans choice, and we very much appreciate when we earn your backing.

We have a fairly long history of Kickstarting projects. We have completed (almost) all of them, with The Blight outstanding. It WILL be completed. We are very dissapointed in ourselves for it having taken this long, but, we made the decision in-house that we were not going to produce a sub-par product to hit our date (or reduce the time it has taken). At this point, a poor product would be disastrous. A good product (I'm not going to be egotistical and say a great product; wait, have you met me??? this is GREAT!!!) means the time invested, while exceeding expectations, was worth it.

We respect our fans, and if a project goes long, we'll ask for your forgiveness, but we won't cut corners on our quality. We owe you that.

SG

[GM Rednal]

^
This is one of the reasons I like Frog God Games. I ALWAYS prefer an overdue, but fantastic book to an on-time, lower-quality one... and their releases have never disappointed me.

[GM_Sarc]

Just watched the interview with FGG that they did recently. Sounds like we are still a LONG ways from seeing the main book. They wouldn't give a time frame, Couldn't give any idea of page count etc... Given how long it takes to layout / print / ship a book of that size I have a feeling there is very little chance we see it in Q2

[Jam412]

GM_Sarc wrote:

Just watched the interview with FGG that they did recently. Sounds like we are still a LONG ways from seeing the main book. They wouldn't give a time frame, Couldn't give any idea of page count etc... Given how long it takes to layout / print / ship a book of that size I have a feeling there is very little chance we see it in Q2

Got a link for the interview?

[The Herald Frog]

Here is the link.

GM_Sarc, I recall hearing Greg mention that the page count was reaching toward 1200 pages. But you are correct that it wasn't a definite number.

[Jam412]

The Herald Frog wrote:

Here is the link.

GM_Sarc, I recall hearing Greg mention that the page count was reaching toward 1200 pages. But you are correct that it wasn't a definite number.

Thanks!!

[DanyRay]

Woa ~1200 pages its even more than Slumbering Tsar 950 pages and no doubt it will be quite an impressive beast!

Realy looking foward to receive it!

Now looking for some adamantium to reinforce the shelf...

[GM Rednal]

There's a reason that bookshelves for gaming things need to be rated "Frog God".

...

More seriously, all of their stuff is on my bottom shelf for a reason. XD

[Anguish]

I had to add vertical braces in the back of mine because eventual sag was becoming a serious issue.

[DanyRay]

Rednal I can't use my bottom shelf... Witht 3 kids at 5yo and Under I wouldn't risk to RA or ST to become realy expensive coloring books...!

"Look daddy I put some green on the ugly frog..."

[Sqn Cdr Flashheart]

Here is your answer :-) Dany

[DanyRay]

Ah! I knew of it but what I did not know was that it was free...

Downloaded... expecting wife's questions about daughters new art project :)

Thanks!

[silverhair2008]

Did the podcast help at all with the information drought?

[Befuddled GM]

silverhair2008 wrote:

Did the podcast help at all with the information drought?

Not especially. They reaffirmed that they are working on it and feel bad but they still didnt have any specifics on anything new. Basically its just under development and will be released at some point.

[Captain TPK]

Still no real updates on this? It has been more than twice as long as expected with delivery apparently nowhere in sight. I hope every single one of those extra pages is pure gold to make it worth the delay.

Anyone want to start a pool on when (if?) we see this? My guess is Q4 2017 - Q1 2018

[TOZ]

My guess is when it's ready.

[Heine Stick]

Captain TPK wrote:

I hope every single one of those extra pages is pure gold to make it worth the delay.

Considering who the main author is, I'm fairly certain the extra pages are indeed pure gold. Sweaty, hairy, tentacled pure gold.

[Anguish]

Heine Stick wrote:

Sweaty, hairy, tentacled pure gold.

Tentacled. Not what my eyes thought they saw the first time.

[Sqn Cdr Flashheart]

Bahaha, yeah me too anguish.

[KarlBob]

To me, the most encouraging thing is that several auxiliary products (three stand-alone adventures and a bestiary) have been released. More news on the status of the main book would be great, of course...

On a personal note,

Spoiler:

I'm going to go ahead and start a Thornkeep/Emerald Spire campaign while I wait for the main Blight book. If I started a regular Adventure Path, I'd probably feel compelled to finish it before starting Levee. Maybe with a super-dungeon, it will be easier to say "Wow, you've reached the bottom level!" and make the switch.

[Bill Webb]

Next update and pdf of a module coming soon. We are diligently banging this out, and the next section is in editing.

[Bill Webb]

PS--the first 500 pages or so of the main book is through development and in editing and conversion. Only like 800 pages to go

[Rysky]

Yay!

[Bill Webb]

Heine Stick wrote:

Captain TPK wrote:

I hope every single one of those extra pages is pure gold to make it worth the delay.

Considering who the main author is, I'm fairly certain the extra pages are indeed pure gold. Sweaty, hairy, tentacled pure gold.

Yes--lots of tentacles, oh, and a few vampires and VERY creepy kids

[Bill Webb]

DanyRay wrote:

Woa ~1200 pages its even more than Slumbering Tsar 950 pages and no doubt it will be quite an impressive beast!

Realy looking foward to receive it!

Now looking for some adamantium to reinforce the shelf...

Max 1200--that is part of the delay--we are having to edit DOWN to allow the final to actually be bound.

[Rysky]

2 books?

[Bill Webb]

2 books would break the bank--besides--we want to officially hold the title for largest ever (I think we already do--but 1196 pages means we will forever!).

Nothing will be deleted wholesale, just some (well tons actually) of editing down is needed. Richard and Greg just write a lot!

[Rysky]

Okies!

[GM Rednal]

As if we didn't already have stores selling gaming bookshelves rated "Frog God" just because of what you've published in the past... XD

[GM_Sarc]

And they release ANOTHER Kickstarter. That will probably be fulfilled before the Blight.

I just talked to my bank about the delay and they said given that it is more than double the expected time to fulfill the Kickstarter they would allow me to back charge it if I want. Still debating if I want to pull the plug on this one.