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As I'm sure we're all aware of, there's been a spate of Troll Recruitments the last six months or so.
For those who aren't sure what this is, someone posts anywhere from one to a dozen new recruitment threads, then spends 2-3 weeks wasting peoples time, then simply vanishes. This wastes peoples time, and gives the community a bad name.
If you suspect someone has trolled a recruitment, please alert Paizo Staff by e-mailing the thread link and the name of the troll to community@paizo.com.
I am not affiliated with Paizo, this information comes from a thread in the website feedback forum, and the request to send the e-mail to paizo comes from that thread. The thread can be found here, with Liz Courts post at the bottom.
I am posting this one here in the hopes it gets enough bumps to stay near the top, as a warning to others. Everything below is my advice on what to look for in a trolling recruitment.
Low Post Count or Poster has a Cyclic history and history shows them vanishing from previous recruitment
Usually these trolls (and I suspect it's one or possibly two trolls) have a low post count, both total and on various 'GM BLAH' aliases. I've noticed a reuse of accounts after 6 months sometimes on the trolling, which adds some legitimacy to the recruitment, because the account has a higher post count and has existed longer.
Gestalt Recruitment
Gestalt is a popular format for games, and the troll(s) know it. Gestalt games get a lot of response, and thus gives the troll(s) more bang for the(ir) buck. Especially watch for batches of gestalt recruitment, especially from the same account. Another thing to watch for is that the gestalt recruitment not only came in a batch, but in a batch that started shortly (within a week or so) after another batch 'finalized'.
Most Recent AP/Big AP put out by popular Third Party
The troll(s) like to use the latest AP a lot as well, because there's a lot of hype around it, and a lot of excitement, thus enabling them to get a lot more fish on the hook. This applies also to major 3rd party APs (I saw at least one Razor Coast AP Troll, and another 'sea themed' troll at the same time Razor Coast came out, picking up on the excitement).
GM Vanishes, but a 'friend' assures you it's RL
Another tactic the troll(s) use is to keep people going after recruitment by having a 'friend' assure everyone that the GM is legit, but has some RL problems. This 'friend' often has a low post count as well.
GM has no characters in other peoples games
It's extremely rare for anyone on PBP to run a game, but not play in someone elses PBP, or at least have applied for slots in others games. If the GM has no player characters, that's a tip off to watch for, especially if combined with a low post count.
So, does that mean every low-post count GM recruitment is a troll?
Not at all, we get new people all the time. I was a new person at one time. So I would not suggest accusing people of being trolls off the bat. However, if you're seeing almost every sign of a troll in a recruitment, that's something to keep in mind.
If you have any other Recruitment Troll signs people should watch for, please post them in this thread. And remember, if you suspect a troll, don't go to a flame war, that's what the troll wants. Just let Paizo know you suspect you've been trolled, and don't drop to their level. Paizo has no love for people who do this, and I'm sure they want to find the person/people responsible and take appropriate actions.
Thanks for reading, and enjoy your PBP games!
Yeah, still suspect that's what was going on with gestalt wrath of the righteous a few months back.
Thanks!
Wow.... It never occurred to me that this was/is a possibility. . I just thought I had some terrible luck with Recruitments with the GM dissappearing prior or right after game started.
It is quite disappointing to put hours into constructing a character with a setting appropriate back story just to find that your time has been wasted.
Thanks for the tips... I'm never going to waste my time on another recruitment where the GM is not active in another campaign as a player or GM.
I don't get what these trolls are gaining from this. But maybe I'm just naive
this has now made me paranoid
Wow.... It never occurred to me that this was/is a possibility. . I just thought I had some terrible luck with Recruitments with the GM dissappearing prior or right after game started.
This happens too—I've had over a dozen games that end within about a week of the first GM posts. It's definitely a bummer.
Honestly, I think at least some of it is just because gestalt high power games are hard to run, and burnout is real.
I guess there were one or two suspicious ones, but I don't think it's all the ones that vanished.
Honestly, I think at least some of it is just because gestalt high power games are hard to run, and burnout is real.
I guess there were one or two suspicious ones, but I don't think it's all the ones that vanished.
Once or twice is coincidence. Try going back and looking at all the gestalt games in the last 6 months in the recruitment area, then see how many either never completed, or the GM vanished without running the game.
I stopped counting at 10. That's not coincidence.
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Terquem, you have nearly 12K posts. You aren't a troll. :) You might have an overactive 'Oooh cool concept!' gene, but that's about it. :)
Troll recruitment threads?
Wha? Why would...?
Are there really people out there who seriously have nothing better to do?
Thanks for the info. I agree 10 is not a coincidence.
Specifically, I've noticed that most of the recruitment threads have been for Kingmaker; I've seen 3-4 gestalt Kingmaker recruitments, a number of which I applied for myself.
Off the top of my head, I've seen:
Wrath of the Righteous
Kingmaker
Throne of Night
A bunch of custom AP/homebrew concepts
Once or twice, a module
Several of them have been gestalt, but not always. There may have been a Way of the Wicked thread too, can't remember for sure.
I can't believe people would do this, but unfortunately it doesn't shock me ... if that makes sense?
I just hope people don't lump me in that group, I did disappear for about 18 months, even when running a game and I did have Real Life issues. If I can get up to the point of running a game again I will.
Oh and BUMP!
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I think considering a recruitment that fails to get off the ground a troll is jumping the gun a bit. I personally posted an interest check thread for a game I've been working on for a long time, but reality hit when school started again and I found out taking six classes wasn't going to be easy. I feel bad about drumming up people's interests, but I certainly wasn't intending to troll anyone, and as I graduate this year I'd like to come back to the idea in the future. I feel that some of these recruitment threads are people not realizing how much work GMing a PbP can be, just sorting through the applications is probably daunting for a lot of new PbP GMs. I don't deny that troll threads probably exist but... I'd like to think better of people than that.
Interesting. As others before me have already said, I am quite baffled as to why someone would actually do something like that. But do I doubt it happening? Nope.
Wow. Some jerks have way too much time on their hands :(
I know there's been at least one real thread like those though- my gestalt version of RotRL (starting at 11th level) from a month or so ago is going well ;)
I usually lurk around the recruitment are a lot, so I had noticed this was going on for quite some time, but never said anything as I thought it could have been just me/I didn't want to meddle/didn't know if I should contact the mods or something. I'm pretty sure I was around when the troll made the first account: he didn't make multiples at the time, just had one that he kept recruiting for games, dropping, and coming back to do a new recruitment some time after. After the 3rd time or so, he kept coming back with new accounts with no posts (usually directly posting with a DM alias): the first I remember was clearly by the same person, as the recruitment guidelines were practically copypasted.
I think there was a period were there weren't any, but I've seen them around multiple times lately: Wrath of the Righteous and Way of the Wicked are two big ones he uses. He has gotten more smart lately, posting first around some threads in the forum for a couple of days before posting in recruitment: never more than 20 or so, though.
One thing to note is that he usually writes quality recruitment first posts, so it's easy to get fooled by that.
I got trolled twice in the year and an half I've been here: once during what I think is the original account, and once more recently. The latter used the "friends vouching for me trick": considering that one was someone with a great number of posts in the boards, I fell for that. :/
Joining games run by people with no posts, not even once.
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This is why I pulled out of a recent gestalt Kingmaker recruitment, too many red flags.
While it doesn't necessarily mean trollong, there are definitely signs that a GM may not be up to actually running a campaign. It's a good idea go call attention to those signs so players can focus on games that may actually achieve lift off.
Yep, that's my purpose with this thread. Not to call any specific person out (that's just feeding a troll). It's to alert people to look for signs, and to let Paizo know if you have been trolled.
Off the top of my head, I've seen:
...
A bunch of custom AP/homebrew concepts
Yeah these are real like... one out of three times, at best.
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Unfortunate that people would do this... I suspect in some cases, the GM might initially have good intentions, but gets cold feet about actually running the game and just bails rather than being honest. It takes long-term dedication and patience to be a good PbP GM, I have a lot of respect for those that provide continued interest in long lasting games.
On that vein, shout out to a few of my GM's of past and present - you do great work and we appreciate it!
Yep, that's my purpose with this thread. Not to call any specific person out (that's just feeding a troll). It's to alert people to look for signs, and to let Paizo know if you have been trolled.
I was actually thinking of doing that before you mentioned that. And I agree with GM burnout. I've had an idea for a numerian style wotw. But I worry I wouldn't be able to commit to all the changes.
There was a string for a while where there were a bunch of high powered games recruiting with similar rules that never came together, mostly all from profiles with little to no posting history. Some of those were most likely a troll (or trolls). In general though I think more often than not its people with good intentions who get overwhelmed; if you're not extremely familiar with the rules it can be really challenging trying to evaluate all the powerful and complex applicants- if they allow 3pp systems on top of everything else it can quickly get overwhelming.
Nate, I agree mostly, however, when you have repeated cycles of multiple threads that follow the same patterns over and over again... like they say, once is a fluke, twice is coincidence, three times is something fishy.
And again, this is not calling out any specific person. This is 'Hey, this seems to be happening, if it happens to you, let Paizo know. Oh, and here's what to watch out for'. That's it.
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I hate that it happens, and I also understand sometimes you get an idea, you speak about an idea, then the execution is harder than you thought, I had an idea for a game, got some peeps interested, then realized with the start of the school year i had to step back... that being said, Now that things with school were stabilized I contacted the original entrants and got things rerolling again (albeit slowly) with 5 out of the 6 back in the game so yay!
If you look some of the toll like but lagit Recruitment Threads
You will see players dropping, I think a lot because of red flags.
I not saying is a troll just that players now drop if they whiff it could be a troll thread.
We will just have to see if it is.
I hardly think players need to be cautious of people with over 3000 posts, quite a number of aliases and a variety of Paizo titles in their profile. If they are, I am thinking they did not bother to check the guy's profile for a minute or two, which should put their minds at ease.
In fact, going by mdt's opening post, Reckless' profile is basically the opposite of a troll profile.
I get what you're saying Panic (Hi again by the way).
Yeah, that's the biggest problem with the trolling. It's not the wasted time (that's a major thing, but it's not THE major thing). It's that it makes it harder for legitimate first time GMs to do recruitment threads, because everyone is getting burned by these trollings.
That said, probably best not to link to any given thread that's currently active, even as an example of a legit thread being damaged by the trolling, just because it's easy to skim a thread and get the wrong idea.
Yep thats what I am saying mdt, and I have all names and links. :)
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@GM_Panic: That's not what's at issue here. What's at issue here is that This kind of thread runs a really large risk of turning into a witch hunt and turning GMs off from opening games here, and mentioning names, even if you think you're 100% clear about what you're trying to say, is only going to cause bad feelings. I appreciate that you edited to remove all the names and links, and I hope that everyone here will keep things civil.
@Everyone: Honestly, when you stop to actually think about what kind of commitment it takes to finish one book of an AP (a year? more?), much less an entire 6-book storyline, it's amazing there are recruitments for them at all. I mean, I've been the GM of three APs and a homebrew, and of those, only two are running right now. It's just impossible to know what's coming up in your life a year or two down the road. In other words, starting an AP through PbP is hard enough without visible pressure from the community like this.
Dealing with potentially trolling GMs shouldn't be a public witch-hunt. It should be a simple email to Liz Courts showing your evidence and then forgetting about it one way or another. What's in danger of happening here is potentially as toxic to the community as troll GMs, and it has to be dealt with tactfully and sensitively. Anger is for PMs and off-site conversations, not for the Recruitment subforum.
I've flagged this thread because I think it should be in PbP general discussion, not in recruitment.
@GM Aest, Well put and understood, My intent was to give and example of players being possibly very cautious. That had a down side as being see as called out the legit GM. For that I am sorry, as said I have removed names have been removed, I hope that others also do the same.
@All, I ask that I and my post not become the subject of this thread,
I feel mdt has raised a real problem and others have noted, PM discussions to that effect, with 2 of the suspected threads. I feel this subject needs to be looked at and discussed.
thats my 2c worth
It would be sad if people felt they had to get a reputation on the boards before anyone will pay attention if they try to run a game.
TBH I suspect a bunch of people don't quite realize what they're letting themselves into when they run a pbp. An AP for example is a multi-year commitment unless you're able to post a lot.
It would be sad if people felt they had to get a reputation on the boards before anyone will pay attention if they try to run a game.
TBH I suspect a bunch of people don't quite realize what they're letting themselves into when they run a pbp. An AP for example is a multi-year commitment unless you're able to post a lot.
No argument with that. But, I will point out that this is not about games starting, going for a bit, and then dying. It's strictly about a rash of recruitments that went fully from first post to end of recruitment and no game materialized, or the Gm posted no more than one post, combined with a specific modus operandi.
Again, this is something multiple people have commented on in multiple places. This thread is solely about pointing out to the community at large that it seems to have been some trolling going on, mainly because of the similarities between the recruitments and the new accounts doing them. It is not about starting a witch hunt (again all, please no links to any given threads). If you think a specific thread is a troll, send that to community@paizo.com and don't post it in any visible thread.
We do not want to feed the troll, nor do we want to start a witch hunt, nor do we want to accuse an innocent new GM.