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Channel Ray description.
It's a pretty poor feat imo, it's only benefit is that it allows you a chance to score a critical hit.
What are some examples of ray altering feats you could see improving this? Also i am unfamiliar with wine variant channeling.
Weapon Focus (Ray), Improved Critical (Ray), etc...
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But improved critical doesnt specify ray like weapon focus does. Are rays for all intents and purpose to be considered weapons?
Yes.
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Also note that it strengthens PC builds that can channel negative, since it gives them more options to use it as an attack without harming their allies due to lack of targets they can select out.
The range increases are pretty nice, as well. At 5th level, that is a 90' ray. And, with a Phylactery of <appropriate> channeling, you add another 60' to the range.
Oh, and other feats that can be applied: Point Blank Range, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, with 4 levels of Fighter, Weapon Specialization, etc.
As a ranged touch attack, though, it wouldn't qualify for Deadly Aim.
And, yes, crit is possible, feats are possible, higher DC is good, and it gives the channeler, either type, more options. I think it'll work with Quick Channel, allowing two attacks in a single round, albeit at the cost of three channels.
Just adding that +2 DC could let you nail an enemy who otherwise might laugh it off. Turning it into a ranged touch attack with range increasing with the scaling damage?! Can we make more feats like this please? This feat is fantastic. One of my sons always plays a paladin and it did not take long for him to add this feat to his character.
30ft per channel die is pretty decent too. Can't get to your ally? Channel Ray him! Need to snipe a Vampire? Channel Ray!
Ah, but with Weapon Versatility, you could do non-energy damage!
Expect table variation: Channel Energy doesn't have a way to grip it.
There are other feats for Unarmed Strike.
Because you hold your holy symbol differently, it changes from energy damage to physical?! As GM, I would ROTFL at any character who tried to argue this.
And how is a ray an "Unarmed Strike"?
I am saying, how do you shift your grip on an unarmed strike?
The feat works with unarmed strikes, and many other weapons you don't grip.
I don't see a "gripped only" restriction.
Yes. Some people cannot look past the fluff at all.
Blows their damn minds.
It's less the grip change and more the conversion of energy damage to physical that bothers me. How does that conversion even work? I mean, does a piercing channeled ray still heal?
While some things are RAW that doesn't mean much if you aren't in PFS.
Instead of the energy washing over someone gradually and without too much damage, you now have learned of a way to convert it to a forceful smash (bludgeoning), or even have it thin as a needle and pierce right through them.
Positive and Negative energy are both dangerous.
It is a place of such overwhelming, fecund energy that all non-natives are generally incinerated within seconds of arrival unless appropriate precautions are taken.
Just think of it as a hyperspace mallet ... makes tons of sense that way.
Slashing, bludgeoning, and piercing are for physical weapons. Rays, obviously are not physical weapons, but they work that way for these feats. Specific over general.
I am saying, how do you shift your grip on an unarmed strike?
The feat works with unarmed strikes, and many other weapons you don't grip.
I don't see a "gripped only" restriction.
Yes. Some people cannot look past the fluff at all.
Blows their damn minds.
How is it fluff when it tells you what to do as a swift action? That's a mechanic, not fluff.
They may count as weapons for the purpose of feats which require you to select a weapon type, but they don't have damage types as weapons do so a feat which changes the damage type of your weapon would have no effect on a ray which has no damage type to change.
None of this is defined as a requirement of the feat itself. You are arguing for what you want the feat to say vs. what it actually says.
I am saying, how do you shift your grip on an unarmed strike?
The feat works with unarmed strikes, and many other weapons you don't grip.
I don't see a "gripped only" restriction.
Yes. Some people cannot look past the fluff at all.
Blows their damn minds.
It's less the grip change and more the conversion of energy damage to physical that bothers me. How does that conversion even work? I mean, does a piercing channeled ray still heal?
While some things are RAW that doesn't mean much if you aren't in PFS.
It is the damage type that is converted, if you have positive energy and convert it to piercing, then the positive energy doesn't work anymore, therefore, no healing.
At least that is how I would rule it.
Negative energy is a damage type. Just like fire, bludgeon, piercing, or slashing, cold, acid or electricity.
The ray normally does either positive or negative energy (depending on what you channel), since there are abilities that reduce negative or positive energy damage and we have spells that deal negative energy damage and so on these are in fact damage types.
So that part of your argument is crap.
As to the "it isn't a normal damage type" argument:
It doesn't say that the weapon has to deal a specific type in order to be changed to one of the other types, only that you have weapon focus in the weapon.
It would work with battle poi and any other weapon. Heck it doesn't even say melee only so you can go gangster with your pistol and deal slashing damage instead of b/p. Shift the grip on your bow and deal bludgeoning.
Without a prerequisite on the starting damage what the weapon normally does has no consequence on what the feat does.
Core rules are specific about this. The ray does none of these.
Rays are weapons. Feats applicable for weapons are applicable to rays.
Rays do energy type damage. These are valid types of damage. Your B/S/P list of damage types for weapons is obviously not all inclusive.
This feat changes energy type damage to B/S/P depending on the choice of the character. It's really that simple.
Incorrect. The feats clear in that it changes the damage of the weapon. Not just "damage " but specifically the damage of the weapon. Weapon damage is either b/s/p. Core rules are specific about this. The ray does none of these.Negative energy is a damage type. Just like fire, bludgeon, piercing, or slashing, cold, acid or electricity.
The ray normally does either positive or negative energy (depending on what you channel), since there are abilities that reduce negative or positive energy damage and we have spells that deal negative energy damage and so on these are in fact damage types.
So that part of your argument is crap.
As to the "it isn't a normal damage type" argument:
It doesn't say that the weapon has to deal a specific type in order to be changed to one of the other types, only that you have weapon focus in the weapon.
It would work with battle poi and any other weapon. Heck it doesn't even say melee only so you can go gangster with your pistol and deal slashing damage instead of b/p. Shift the grip on your bow and deal bludgeoning.
Without a prerequisite on the starting damage what the weapon normally does has no consequence on what the feat does.
You should tell Paizo that. The Battle Poi(Adventurer's Armory) and the Flamethrower(Rasputin Must Die) deal fire damage. In the damage type column for each of them their damage is listed as "fire". The description for the damage type is what says the whole b/s/p thing, but fire is listed as a damage type in more than one book. Your argument doesn't really hold much water on that basis alone, because apparently Paizo doesn't consider B/P/S as some immutable constant but just the typical damage dealt by a weapon (but not in the case of many Rays). Either that, or the rules are contradictory, but in that case it's almost certain that the weapon damage definition is the thing that would get viewed as in error and errata'd to fix the whole issue.
Elemental damage as well as other forms of magic clearly cause damage that are not bludgeoning/piercing/slashing. Fire burns, cold freezes, etc. However it seems the opposition is that it's hard to do something like throwing a fireball and making it do piercing damage; it just doesn't seem realistic to some people (even being in a world of magic). Perhaps it may have been intended to not work with rays. I think an FAQ on this one would be good, because IMHO you should not be able to bludgeon people with positive energy. FAQ'd.
Would you say then that you can grip a flame thrower so the flames do slashing damage?
It only makes slightly less sense than impaling someone on a bag of marbles.
The feat is stupid. It's stupid when you use it for edge cases where RAW is debatable, and it's stupid for all but the most banal "clearly RAW" uses. The only times when it isn't stupid are times when the weapon should have allowed extra damage types anyway, like bludgeoning with a longsword's flat or pommel and piercing with it's tip. Slashing with a ball mounted on a stick or bludgeoning with a piece of piano wire is wacky, so why not bludgeon someone with the pressure blast of a flamethrower*, or slash them open by using the flamethrower's jet to knock up debris into the target's face. We are already in nonsense land, so why not accept the absurdity and just run with it.
*since you can stab someone with a bag of sand by holding it differently, why not shift your grip to turn your weapon into a TF2 knockoff.
sneak attack.
evil cleric/rogues with channel negative energy get quite a boost. You don't suffer as much from multi-classing (unless I fundamentally misunderstand rays)
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Maybe that bard archtype one?
Even then you're shifting your grip on what? Your vocal cords? Silly.
You can't turn a ray of light into a different damage type because you can't grip a ray of light. Even if you could it doesn't do p/s/b
Oddly, until it was errataed, Weird Words did P, B, or S damage at the Bard's choice. Only after it was errataed, did it start being Sonic damage instead.
Incorrect. The feats clear in that it changes the damage of the weapon. Not just "damage " but specifically the damage of the weapon. Weapon damage is either b/s/p. Core rules are specific about this. The ray does none of these.
So, as mentioned, can you change the type of damage the Battle Poi weapon does?
And there are definitely spells which do B or P or S damage, rather then, or in addition to, some sort of energy damage. Consider the Core spell Storm of Vengeance. That does deafening, acid, electricity, bludgeoning, and then obscures sight.
Right so a damage type is only b/s/p...
should explain that to the developers:
A fireball spell generates a searing explosion of flame that detonates with a low roar and deals 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to every creature within the area. Unattended objects also take this damage. The explosion creates almost no pressure.
Damage. What type? Fire.
A creature with the burn special attack deals fire damage in addition to damage dealt on a successful hit in melee. Those affected by the burn ability must also succeed on a Reflex save or catch fire, taking the listed damage for an additional 1d4 rounds at the start of its turn (DC 10 + 1/2 burning creature’s racial HD + burning creature’s Con modifier). A burning creature can attempt a new save as a full-round action. Dropping and rolling on the ground grants a +4 bonus on this save. Creatures that hit a burning creature with natural weapons or unarmed attacks take fire damage as though hit by the burning creature and must make a Reflex save to avoid catching on fire.
Disturbing a patch of winterbloom releases a burst of poisonous spores in the form of a bluish-white cloud of chilled vapor. Creatures within 10 feet of the winterbloom must make a DC 12 Fortitude save or sustain 2d4 points of cold damage and 1d4 points of Constitution damage as the inhaled spores form ice crystals on the victim’s lungs. The cloud lingers in the area for 1d3 rounds and each round a creature remains in the area it must make additional Fortitude saves or continue sustaining damage. A patch of winterbloom is easily dispersed with fire.
Lightning strikes occur commonly during thunderstorms. It is exceedingly rare for a creature to be struck by lightning, though such an unlucky character would suffer between 4d8 and 10d8 points of electricity damage from the strike. Lightning strikes rarely produce forest fires in jungles due to their humid nature, but on the plains or in dry areas it's possible for a strike to ignite a wild fire.
Corrosive rain acts as normal rain, but deals 1d6 points of acid damage per hour of exposure. Rains vary widely in what they affect, some dissolving nearly any material, others affecting only organic matter, metal, or plastics. When corrosive rain falls in a downpour, it deals 1d6 points of acid damage every 10 minutes instead.
next you'll be telling us you can't critical with a ray since it's not a weapon and can't deal damage. Since after all it doesn't deal "weapon damage"...
but wait...
Touch Attacks: Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered to be an armed attack and therefore does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The act of casting a spell, however, does provoke an attack of opportunity. Touch attacks come in two types: melee touch attacks and ranged touch attacks. You can score critical hits with either type of attack as long as the spell deals damage. Your opponent's AC against a touch attack does not include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. His size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) all apply normally.
THIS CAN NOT BE! A SPELL IS NOT A WEAPON! IT CANNOT DEAL DAMAGE IF IT ISN'T A WEAPON BECAUSE DAMAGE IS ONLY WEAPON BASED!
And we haven't even touched splash weapons... weapons that don't deal b/s/p damage for the most part...