In 3.5, I made an elf druid archer that took PBS & Rapid Shot at levels 1 & 3. At 8th level, he could make 3 ranged touch attacks per round for 1d6+5 each (1d6+6 with PBS).
He was VERY versatile, too.
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There's always Dazing Produce Flame Rapid Shot...
Speaking of thrown weapons, there's also going thrower/melee combo with a Fighter or Warpriest. Improved Snap Shot -> Pin Down with thrown daggers is pretty spiffy.
If Performance Feats are an option, Hero's Display, Mocking Dance and Masterful Performance say "exploit meeeee!".
Hokay, here's my suggestion. Ask your GM if he/she will allow Called Shots. I've been looking into these, and not only are they powerful at higher levels (where crits can happen often if you please, and when they do, many times it can be a debilitating blow.)
Go ahead and dip a single level into Brawler. This will give you a light attack, open up the possibility of a style feat (if you want one), it grants you martial flexibility 4/day (while this is as a move action, a quickrunner's shirt effectively ensures you can use it at least once per a day without throwing off your rhythm.) Also, this eliminates the need for an intelligence of greater than 13 unless you want more skills.
For optimization at this point, focus on growing power output and accuracy. Make sure you leave room for the feats that make Called Shots work (chiefly Improved and Greater Called Shots).
If you start as a Human, you can have Power Attack and Combat Expertise at 1st level. 2nd level, get Imp. Called Shot if you go fighter or take another level of brawler, otherwise take it at 3rd.
Build from there.
Ever played a Mesmerist (Vexing Dodger)? Yes I know it's not a pure martial but it has a lot of fun stuff that allow you to get right into the thick of things. Their Dazzling Feint ability gives you a few interesting things to do in combat too. Between their spells and skill points they have plenty of out of combat options
By the way as hard as it is, try not to get too hung up on categorizing classes into martials and casters. While it is a general indication of power level, I personally find selecting a character based on their role/tactic rather than worrying about whether it's magic or mundane much less frustrating. Also while I'm sure not everybody enjoys this style of play, I often try to help out a party member shine atleast once a session even if I'm not playing a support character. There's just something very satisfying about it.
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I've a buddy who has a PFS legal dwarven barbarian who uses strength surge to make insane grapple checks. From there, he picks up his targets and, through an absurd chain of feats, starts beating his opponents with the guy he's grappling, as an improvised weapon, for some pretty decent damage. Not quite what a greatsword or the like might do, but still pretty good and he is taking 1 target out of the fight while doing damage to both it and another target.
As he worked up the levels/feats to get the build functioning, he had a "rock" collection of 10 pound bricks of various materials. He would then beat people over the head with them. As he leveled and got more improvised weapon feats, he would do increasingly large amounts of damage.
His character concept was a freed Cheliax slave who didn't know any other life, so he would reflexively do whatever anyone told him. Even neigh suicidal stuff (until, perhaps, when one of my characters tried to get him stuck in a logic loop to kick-start a higher level of self awareness... that game got deep). He would also use his environment to his advantage, including taking said grappled target and jumping into a functioning machine or trap with it, then just outlasting the opponent through a higher max HP and a little DR. I've seen him jump off cliffs to a similar effect (gogo catfall boots), then climb back up.
Give that a shot, I know he'd be thrilled someone else was using it.
3+ levels unchained rogue + 5 levels of bolt ace can give you a dex focused character that can switch freely from melee to range and has a great deal of out of combat options.
Elemental Annihilator Kineticist is a power house of a martial character with a completely new feel over others, could combine it with Halfling and Overwhelming soul archetype and have a Dex/char based character that does not suffer from small size damage wise. Earth is a very good choice.
Switch hitter ranger can effectively come online at level 2.
I'm really not sure what you are looking for though. I mean you dismissed my monk with "I don't want to only aid another." That build has more options than you can shake a stick at but all you see is aid another. Maybe the builds aren't the problem maybe you just aren't seeing the options.
Switch hitter ranger can effectively come online at level 2.
I'm really not sure what you are looking for though. I mean you dismissed my monk with "I don't want to only aid another." That build has more options than you can shake a stick at but all you see is aid another. Maybe the builds aren't the problem maybe you just aren't seeing the options.
Huh? Sorry if I gave you that impression... I didn't dismiss your Monk or any other particular build. My comment was referring to this one:
Wow seriously. Your options as a fighter or martial class are nearly endless.
Options of the top of my head
Charge, grapple, trip, flank, aid another, spring attack, whirlwind attack,
Fun ones
Repositioning, viscous stomp/greater trip. (Saw a multi class whip master do all of that and more once dominate the field by selecting what to reposition into a flank then trip them while we all slack of opportunity/ stomped them to death )
I've actually played a Ki Mystic Sensei Monk a while ago in a one shot adventure. It's an interesting build...
I'm currently looking at a shield-bashing Divine Hunter Ranger build I created a while ago. I wonder what else I can do to spice it up. :)
sorry if I haven't played a class I really don't know how it's mechanics work that wellGunslinger?Somehow, I don't think Gunslingers are a good choice for someone who is looking for versatility...
But thanks for taking the time to reply.
I didn't mean to be rude. It's just that Gunslinger are possibly the most narrow-minded class in combat. They have a few cool tricks they can pull off with grit, but most of the time, they will just sit there and full attack. And unlike melee builds, positioning is mostly irrelevant and there is no possibility for maneuvers.
Gunslingers work best as a 5~6 level "dip".
But still, thank you for replying.
3+ levels unchained rogue + 5 levels of bolt ace can give you a dex focused character that can switch freely from melee to range and has a great deal of out of combat options.
It's unnecessary, though... Since we have a "Dex to finesse weapons" feat in play and allow crossbows to add Str modifier to damage (Rogues have a talent to add Int instead).
In any case... Wouldn't a Swashbuckler be better for the melee combat portion of the build, though?
Elemental Annihilator Kineticist is a power house of a martial character with a completely new feel over others, could combine it with Halfling and Overwhelming soul archetype and have a Dex/char based character that does not suffer from small size damage wise. Earth is a very good choice.
I don't know about the Elemental Annihilator. I've been looking over the Kineticist... I really dislike the Burn mechanics, but it's the one occult class that picked my interest...
Well... Maybe the Medium and Mesmerist as well...
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I've been looking over the Kineticist... I really dislike the Burn mechanics, but it's the one occult class that picked my interest...
'Piqued.'
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Well... Yeah, this is a problem that affects casters too, though, it isn't nearly as serious, unless the player wants (many casters can completely change their spell lists everyday, the ones who can't still have more spells than they have class levels. And they all get their own feats + spells that are incredibly versatile).
But that's beside the point... Knowing that casters can be just as boring doesn't make me enjoy my martial characters.
You missed my point.
This is a problem that affects EVERY CLASS. No matter which class you play, you have something you're good at and use that something over and over and over and over ad infinitum.
Sure, spellcasters can change their spells, but every caster has a few favorites, either because those are awesome spells so why prepare sub-awesome alternatives, or because that caster has specialized for his favorite spells. So even casters just repeat the same series of actions in battle after battle.
But all classes have this problem.
And as I said in that original post, the best solution for this is to have the GM create more interesting battles. Battles where you get interrupted in the middle (by more enemies or allies or even non-combatants in the way), or running battles across varied topography and geometry, or even moving battles so each round you're fighting in a different location (think of the Temple of Doom mine cart battle), or doing other things environmentally to make the fight new and challenging (try fighting in a blizzard or on a slippery glacier or in a crumbling collapsed tower like Legolas fighting Bolg in the Battle of Five Armies, movie version). Etc.
Well... Yeah, this is a problem that affects casters too, though, it isn't nearly as serious, unless the player wants (many casters can completely change their spell lists everyday, the ones who can't still have more spells than they have class levels. And they all get their own feats + spells that are incredibly versatile).
But that's beside the point... Knowing that casters can be just as boring doesn't make me enjoy my martial characters.
You missed my point.
This is a problem that affects EVERY CLASS. No matter which class you play, you have something you're good at and use that something over and over and over and over ad infinitum.
Sure, spellcasters can change their spells, but every caster has a few favorites, either because those are awesome spells so why prepare sub-awesome alternatives, or because that caster has specialized for his favorite spells. So even casters just repeat the same series of actions in battle after battle.
But all classes have this problem.
And as I said in that original post, the best solution for this is to have the GM create more interesting battles. Battles where you get interrupted in the middle (by more enemies or allies or even non-combatants in the way), or running battles across varied topography and geometry, or even moving battles so each round you're fighting in a different location (think of the Temple of Doom mine cart battle), or doing other things environmentally to make the fight new and challenging (try fighting in a blizzard or on a slippery glacier or in a crumbling collapsed tower like Legolas fighting Bolg in the Battle of Five Armies, movie version). Etc.
I got your point. What I said is that...
A- It's much easier to avoid/solve said problem with caster classes.
B- Knowing it can happen to casters doesn't make martials more enjoyable.
I still love GMing and creating homebrew mechanics... Those things let me try all sorts of stuff. :)
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I just GMed a fun fight on a wet cave floor (water and algae made it slick) with some templated giant frogs and, for added enjoyment, piercers dropping down from above. So everyone was more worried about the ceiling than the frogs. My only regret was that they never got to swallow the halfling whole.
Not the most dynamic battle I've run against my PCs over the years, but it's one simple example of how I made the fight more interesting. People weren't just stepping up and full attacking every round. Skills were used (acrobatics just to move safely, perception to avoid standing under a piercer), tactics were awkward (how do you get flanking when moving is risky and piercers are above the square you want to move to?, and also, where can the sorcerer stand to be safe when piercers fall on him and giant frogs pounce over allies to land on him?), etc.
Prior to that, they fought an ogre with an unusually high INT and WIS and some class levels who had a donut-shaped lair with obstacles in the narrow spots (that he was tall enough to step over but medium sized creatures had to deal with, so only the ogre could freely run and charge in this area) - he liked to circle around and hit the group from behind, and then when they swapped places he would circle around again to get behind them again.
Fights like this keep the PLAYERS on their toes and prevent, at least to some extent, getting into a rut of "Oh, yawn, another combat. I full attack. Again. Like always."
Erh. I don't think it can really be done, if you're bored with maneuvers.
What you can do though, is pick something like Magus, and run with that.
That'd get you varied actions.
A pure martial, well, you're probably down on your luck there.
I did something once with feats to combat this feeling, as a fighter, but it wasn't very effective.
Feats:
1 - Power Attack
1F - Shield of Swings
1H - Cleave
2F - Quick Draw
3 - Point Blank Shot
4F - Rapid Shot
5 - Deadly Aim
6F - Vital Strike
That way you have a couple of 'modes' to attack with. There's Ranged, Full Melee, Cleave, Shield of Swings, and Vital strike.
Again, it wasn't very good, but it helped out with that 'Ehh, full attack' feeling.
It's unnecessary, though... Since we have a "Dex to finesse weapons" feat in play and allow crossbows to add Str modifier to damage (Rogues have a talent to add Int instead).
In any case... Wouldn't a Swashbuckler be better for the melee combat portion of the build, though?
I don't know about the Elemental Annihilator. I've been looking over the Kineticist... I really dislike the Burn mechanics, but it's the one occult class that picked my interest...
Well... Maybe the Medium and Mesmerist as well...
Not familiar with any way to get strength to damage with a crossbow and only the rogue finesse can get dex to damage while duel wielding. Slashing grace can only be used empty offhand. Swashbuckler has no real ranged ability and weaker out of combat roles than the rogue.
Elemental Annihilator does not use burn much other than to pump your defense and gain your overflow bonus, the Overwhelming Soul can be combined with EA and it trades out burn and damage from Con becomes damage from Charisma.
Random Suggestion:
Build a grappling focused character that has at least a type II bag of holding and either spell storing spiked gauntlets with reduce person or some item that allows you to activate said spell. Your objective is to shrink the enemy and stuff them in the bag. They suffocate after 10 minutes.
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Bluh, post got eaten. Here's the short version.
Exemplar brawler is buff goodness mixed with martial versatility. Alchemist should be strongly considered because their "spells" can be seen as more of a refreshable potion collection and bombs are super useful. Vivisectionist is a good trade out for what you're looking for.
Not familiar with any way to get strength to damage with a crossbow and only the rogue finesse can get dex to damage while duel wielding. Slashing grace can only be used empty offhand. Swashbuckler has no real ranged ability and weaker out of combat roles than the rogue.
Ah, my bad. I should have made it clear... Those are house-rules in the game. We don't use Slashing Grace because Paizo dropped the ball HARD on that one.
Elemental Annihilator does not use burn much other than to pump your defense and gain your overflow bonus, the Overwhelming Soul can be combined with EA and it trades out burn and damage from Con becomes damage from Charisma.
Overwhelming Soul is a HORRIBLE archetype and whoever designed it should feel bad for it!
But still... Thank you for trying to help me.
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Thank you, everyone... I really appreciate you all trying to help.
I may try the Divine Tracker Ranger or maybe some Paladin build at some point... But for now, I think it's best I take a break from martial classes... At least when not using homebrew and/or 3pp material.
Still, I'm very grateful for you all taking the time to reply.
Thank you.
A bit late, but maybe you should consider it for a next game.
Exemplar Brawler with Cavalier VMC, going into Battle Herald PrC right at 5th level.
I just GMed a fun fight on a wet cave floor (water and algae made it slick) with some templated giant frogs and, for added enjoyment, piercers dropping down from above. So everyone was more worried about the ceiling than the frogs. My only regret was that they never got to swallow the halfling whole.
Not the most dynamic battle I've run against my PCs over the years, but it's one simple example of how I made the fight more interesting. People weren't just stepping up and full attacking every round. Skills were used (acrobatics just to move safely, perception to avoid standing under a piercer), tactics were awkward (how do you get flanking when moving is risky and piercers are above the square you want to move to?, and also, where can the sorcerer stand to be safe when piercers fall on him and giant frogs pounce over allies to land on him?), etc.
Prior to that, they fought an ogre with an unusually high INT and WIS and some class levels who had a donut-shaped lair with obstacles in the narrow spots (that he was tall enough to step over but medium sized creatures had to deal with, so only the ogre could freely run and charge in this area) - he liked to circle around and hit the group from behind, and then when they swapped places he would circle around again to get behind them again.
Fights like this keep the PLAYERS on their toes and prevent, at least to some extent, getting into a rut of "Oh, yawn, another combat. I full attack. Again. Like always."
For a 5E campaign, before I had the DMG or MM, I ran an encounter with a Huge giant frog. It could hop 30 feet as a bonus action and use its tongue to grab a projectile out of the sky as a reaction. It could also pull a Medium PC into its mouth and swallow whole. So it did that, and then jumped away with a PC! I then changed the scale of the battle grid to 1 square=30 feet and did a chase through the swamp. One PC escaped and a different one got swallowed! Fun fun fun! I think it also had a stunning RIBBIT and maybe a bonus action pull and bite attack if the tongue hit.
Giant Frogs are WAY too much fun! :-D
A Monkey Goblin Mouser Swashbuckler with Monkey Style is incredibly amusing. "GetitoffgetitoffGETITOFF!!!"
Kitsune Fighters have the feats to be able to take the Magical Tail line and still be able to actually do some things in combat. Use Combat Reflexes and a Reach weapon to take most of your attacks when it isn't your turn, and on your turn toss around Dominate and Confusion.
The Flying Talon is a light piercing Reach weapon. Use an oversized one and your reach goes up to 15 feet for a -2 penalty. Combine with Hamatula Strike and you can grapple people from Reach. Add in Longarm Bracers, Enlarge Person or a Giant's Mask and your reach can get even more impressive. Because the grapple rules state that grappled creatures immediately get pulled to the closest adjacent space of the creature grappling them, you can essentially play Scorpion. "GET OVER HERE"
Paladin/Shadowdancers and Swashbuckler/Shadowdancers are really fun. If you can get your GM to OK using the Dimensional Agility feats, you can change a lot about how martials tend to be played.
Play a Zen Archer with a ton of utility arrows. Put points into Craft Trap. Deploy Bear Traps and other fun things like them. Enjoy huge mobility, consistent damage, and a surprising amount of utility. (With this combination I once bear trapped an enemy, then readied an action to fire an anchoring arrow into a wyvern as it did a fly-by attack. The arrow was attached to the bear trap's chain. Fun ensued.)
With all martial characters, think like Batman. Get utility items that change things up.
Dust of Dryness is a great one. Use it to suck up a bunch of ocean water and then pocket the bead. Use it later to make impromptu moats or make fire elementals really unhappy. Use it if you get Swallowed Whole and watch your GM facepalm.
Feather Tokens are great too. Dropping boats and trees on people is fun. They also make great battlefield cover. Fan tokens can clear obnoxious fog, smoke and gas effects.
Hope these help you think outside the usual martial box.
Picking up Martial Flexibility can add a lot of decisions and potentially change how you fight each combat.Yeah... I thought about playing a Brawler... But that class gets boring for the opposite reason. It can't do anything meaningful out of combat.
Is there any way to get that ability without being a Fighter or Brawler?
....
On Rogues and Fun - I started playing a Scroll Scoundrel with the Circling Mongoose feat. Wow, it's a lot of fun - getting off a full attack is something I look forward to, mostly because I've invested in Mobility and similar feats so I can take a risk.
I identify the target I want dead, I move and take a risk and then do that full attack. If everything worked well, the target is dead. If not, well it wont be another round but it might not be for me either. It's a bit of a gamble. Nothing exceptionally new here, except that you can do it with a rogue (without relying on invisibilities) and playing a little on the edge. Short lived.Eldritch Raider archetype brings a lot of versatility to rogues too, if youre allowed to play one. Similar with the wand archetype and a couple others.
I think this boils down to giving yourself options: You can choose the Full Round Attack but you should also invest into something that's worthwhile doing in combat. One trick ponies get old real fast.
A Monkey Goblin Mouser Swashbuckler with Monkey Style is incredibly amusing. "GetitoffgetitoffGETITOFF!!!"
This made me laugh my butt off.
If you feel like homebrewing, and if you can get your DM/GM to yield on that point a little bit, check this out:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s25m?Converting-the-35-Marshal#1
SmiloDan, Elder Basilisk, and I bounced this idea around for a few days earlier this year. I think all of the work we put into it is good, but it definitely needs some refinement.
You could see if the base marshal from 3.5 is something he would allow, since Pathfinder is supposed to be fully compatible. Though it really doesn't help much with "Spam Drain" . . . . You'll be doing a pretty specific subset of things in each encounter, but maybe you could get your kicks out of making everyone else better. I know bards can do that phenomenally well in Pathfinder, but you don't have to worry with spellcasting, at least. And converting the marshal to d10 HD, full BAB, and 6 skill ranks isn't too much a stretch, either. Buff the whole team and still maintain your own action economy? Tough to beat, in my opinion . . . .
Or you could leverage the backwards-compatibility clause and go for the warblade from the Path of Nine Swords splatbook . . . .
I know I've only chipped in some paltry ideas, but I hope you find a way to get the fun back, chief.
Someone mentioned Druid, and that really might be something to look at. I have a Druid in PFS, that is VERY versatile. It's a Worldwalker Druid with 1 level of Trapper Ranger. At 5th Level I took the feat Shapeshifting Hunter, which lets Druid levels stack for Favored Enemies, and World Walker gives me favored terrain. With this build, I'm a full caster with favored enemy, and favored terrain, and you have access to Rouge-like skills. I debated long and hard between going Green Faith Initiate for the "Face Skills" or World Walker. In the end I decided on World Walker so the favored terrain could help me with my Rogue skills. In combat I have the option to cast spells, shapeshift, or just wack away with a Scimitar.
After typing all that out I just remembered that you wanted a versatile melee character, not just a versatile character, so I didn't help you much, but maybe someone else can get something out of this.
A druid can be a fun melee combatant.
Take Combat Reflexes and Power Attack as your first feats, wield a reach weapon (might need to spend a feat or use a trait or special race to get a weapon proficiency in a reach weapon, or dip into barbarian or cavalier (for the Teamwork feat to share with your animal companion) since druids don't get longspear proficiency for some reason!) and play like a reach cleric until you can wild shape, then fight in wildshape.
Stat out a bunch of different wildshape forms, and you can fight differently each fight. Dire Wolf tripper, Dire Bear mauler and grappler, Dire Lion pouncer and raker, etc. etc.
You can use your spells for fun buffs. You can even re-skin them as spiritual surges so they don't feel so much like spells to you.
Multiclassing a martial with 4 levels of Druid and Shaping Focus allows for 24h/day medium-elemental-with-a-weapon combat. Storm Druid 4/ Swashbuckler with a dex-to-damage weapon in air elemental form playing 'wind dervish' is pretty sweet.
Thank you, everyone... I really appreciate you all trying to help.
I may try the Divine Tracker Ranger or maybe some Paladin build at some point... But for now, I think it's best I take a break from martial classes... At least when not using homebrew and/or 3pp material.
Still, I'm very grateful for you all taking the time to reply.
Thank you.
Actually this is about the time you should probably consider running another system all together. As pointed out, the "flaw" is system based and every class suffers from it.
Play something else for a bit, wait for the burn out to wear off, come back to enjoy it again later (or not if the other system was a better fit for you).
Actually this is about the time you should probably consider running another system all together. As pointed out, the "flaw" is system based and every class suffers from it.
Play something else for a bit, wait for the burn out to wear off, come back to enjoy it again later (or not if the other system was a better fit for you).
The thing is... I still really enjoy playing casters (specially 6-level casters), because while the problem can happen to them as well, it's much easier to fix/avoid.
Also, I really like to GM. And there's some homebrew and 3pp material that I like... Sadly, they are not an option for 2 of the 3 games where I got bored.
Actually this is about the time you should probably consider running another system all together. As pointed out, the "flaw" is system based and every class suffers from it.
Play something else for a bit, wait for the burn out to wear off, come back to enjoy it again later (or not if the other system was a better fit for you).
The thing is... I still really enjoy playing casters (specially 6-level casters), because while the problem can happen to them as well, it's much easier to fix/avoid.
Also, I really like to GM. And there's some homebrew and 3pp material that I like... Sadly, they are not an option for 2 of the 3 games where I got bored.
Then learn to accept things they way they are, or shift your perception to a place where it isn't an issue. If you really want something, you do something about it. Depending on how badly you want it determines the lengths you are willing to go to fix an issue.
On the off chance that seems harsh, it wasn't meant to be. It is just... You have a "problem" and the reason is pretty obvious. So the only thing that remains is, what are you going to do about your problem to make you happier about it? All the valid suggestions thus far have been shot down, so that pretty much leaves you as the "source" and nothing anyone can offer is going to really fix that.
Then learn to accept things they way they are, or shift your perception to a place where it isn't an issue. If you really want something, you do something about it. Depending on how badly you want it determines the lengths you are willing to go to fix an issue.
On the off chance that seems harsh, it wasn't meant to be. It is just... You have a "problem" and the reason is pretty obvious. So the only thing that remains is, what are you going to do about your problem to make you happier about it? All the valid suggestions thus far have been shot down, so that pretty much leaves you as the "source" and nothing anyone can offer is going to really fix that.
I'm not sure what's your point... I had a problem and tried to fix it. Didn't work. I asked for advice and got it. Some of it I tried before, some of it currently in play already(focusing on Dirty Tricks, using PoW, etc) and some of it I hadn't thought about before and I do now.
But still, some classes are boring me. So I thanked everyone, considered their advice, but ultimately decided to take a break from the portions of the game that are boring me (in this case: martial classes).
Since I can avoid those parts specifically, why should I avoid the portions that I do enjoy? Do you drop everything that isn't 100% to your liking, even if you can avoid the parts you don't enjoy? Your comment is like saying I should shut up and completely drop Street Fighter because I don't like playing with Ryu and Ken.
Actually this is about the time you should probably consider running another system all together. As pointed out, the "flaw" is system based and every class suffers from it.
Play something else for a bit, wait for the burn out to wear off, come back to enjoy it again later (or not if the other system was a better fit for you).
The thing is... I still really enjoy playing casters (specially 6-level casters), because while the problem can happen to them as well, it's much easier to fix/avoid.
Also, I really like to GM. And there's some homebrew and 3pp material that I like... Sadly, they are not an option for 2 of the 3 games where I got bored.
Which games?
Which games?
2 of the ones I play with my live group.
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Late to the discussion, but I second Brawler or Bloodrager. Lots more options. Brawler seems like a step in the right direction to unchain the Fighter.
PF is unfortunately lacking sorely on the front of in-combat options for martials, especially for a game that focuses so much on combat.
Ask your GM to allow Called Shots from ultimate combat. That adds some more options to martial gameplay. Get the Improved Called shot feat though because only as a full round action for one attack they become increasingly useless after BAB +6
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Late to the discussion, but I second Brawler or Bloodrager. Lots more options. Brawler seems like a step in the right direction to unchain the Fighter.
I'm talking to my GM about making a Brawler/Ranger mix archetype... He isn't a big fan of homebrew, but he allows it if it's subtle enough... So maybe a Ranger archetype that gets Martial Versatility instead of Combat Styles...
Then learn to accept things they way they are, or shift your perception to a place where it isn't an issue. If you really want something, you do something about it. Depending on how badly you want it determines the lengths you are willing to go to fix an issue.
On the off chance that seems harsh, it wasn't meant to be. It is just... You have a "problem" and the reason is pretty obvious. So the only thing that remains is, what are you going to do about your problem to make you happier about it? All the valid suggestions thus far have been shot down, so that pretty much leaves you as the "source" and nothing anyone can offer is going to really fix that.
I'm not sure what's your point... I had a problem and tried to fix it. Didn't work. I asked for advice and got it. Some of it I tried before, some of it currently in play already(focusing on Dirty Tricks, using PoW, etc) and some of it I hadn't thought about before and I do now.
But still, some classes are boring me. So I thanked everyone, considered their advice, but ultimately decided to take a break from the portions of the game that are boring me (in this case: martial classes).
Since I can avoid those parts specifically, why should I avoid the portions that I do enjoy? Do you drop everything that isn't 100% to your liking, even if you can avoid the parts you don't enjoy? Your comment is like saying I should shut up and completely drop Street Fighter because I don't like playing with Ryu and Ken.
No the point was, the game is what it is, and several of the options you either can't/won't do for various reasons. So you should accept the reality of the situation and that the game may not be able to actually allow you to have a fulfilling experience until you accept that.
It is like complaining you hate the color red, but purchasing a red car. You only have yourself to blame for the annoyance. The problem you have with the game is a fundamental rule set about actions. PoW is about the best option, but you dismissed it (for reasons) but you still dismissed it. If it was that big of a deal or fixed the problem, that wouldn't have been the case.
No one can "fix" burnt out or unsatisfactory game play for you. No can can fix your perception of what you think the gameplay should be like. So the problem isn't so much the game, as it is you and your expectations or desires from it.
My point, in the most sincere and simple way to put it, is the problem is probably you. Not in a nasty or snarky way, but in a genuine 'if you've done all this and you are unhappy still' way. Finding the actual problem, as opposed to what you believe the problem is, is in your best interest if you want enjoy gaming. Sometimes the way we see things is what causes us to be unhappy, we end up doing it to ourselves. False hope and all that.
It is like complaining you hate the color red, but purchasing a red car. You only have yourself to blame for the annoyance. The problem you have with the game is a fundamental rule set about actions. PoW is about the best option, but you dismissed it (for reasons) but you still dismissed it. If it was that big of a deal or fixed the problem, that wouldn't have been the case.
No one can "fix" burnt out or unsatisfactory game play for you. No can can fix your perception of what you think the gameplay should be like. So the problem isn't so much the game, as it is you and your expectations or desires from it.
My point, in the most sincere and simple way to put it, is the problem is probably you. Not in a nasty or snarky way, but in a genuine 'if you've done all this and you are unhappy still' way. Finding the actual problem, as opposed to what you believe the problem is, is in your best interest if you want enjoy gaming. Sometimes the way we see things is what causes us to be unhappy, we end up doing it to ourselves. False hope and all that.
I'm sorry, Skylance, but... What the hell is your point? Did I at any point give the impression that I was blaming anyone for my burnout???
All I said is I have a problem enjoying some portions of the game. I tried to fix it so I could enjoy them again, but it didn't work very well, so I asked for advice. The forum folk were kind enough to give me. Unfortunately, sometimes, no matter how good or well-intentioned an advice is, it's not enough to fix a problem.
So I took the given advice in consideration. Hell! I'm even using some of it!
But now you're telling me to drop the whole game because there are parts of it that I don't enjoy, even though they are easily avoided. The car analogy doesn't make sense. To actually reflect to my situation, I'd have to have dozens of available cars and get tired of driving the red ones, then after asking for advice on how to enjoy them more, you showed up and told me I should quit driving.
I don't mean to be rude, because I realize people in this thread are trying to help me, but I honestly have no idea of how "Drop the whole game (Even the parts you like!) or shut up about your problems" is a constructive thing to say.
Lemmy,
I have come up with a lot of very creative melee character ideas, but I'm not sure any of them will change the way you feel about playing. Nobody can make you feel differently.
It sounds like you are looking for more and different decisions to make in combat?
Your prior builds have all been centered around the Full Attack Action, and you want variations from that?
I don't know how familiar you are with my builds already, but I do have a few that aren't centered around the Full Attack Action.
I'd like to get a clearer sense from you about what you want and what you are bored with before I make specific suggestions, because I'm not sure any suggestion would help.
I haven't seen your builds, Scott. Are they listed anywhere?
In any case, yes... What I'm looking for is ways to add more in-combat options (real options) and decisions (meaningful decisions) to my non-caster characters...
Not necessarily specific builds, but good ideas in general that help give martial classes more variety. Using the same 1~3 tricks all combat, every combat is frustrating me.
The problem is compound by the fact that I play a variety of characters in a variety of games, so some of the most fun ideas (like focusing on Dirty Tricks) are already in use, and adding them to another char is boring, because I end up with two chars that feel the same. -.-'
BTw, I don't want to give the impression that I'm not listening to you people. I definitely am.
So far, these are the ideas I believe are the most helpful, in no particular order:
- Use a build/class/character with good mobility.
This is actually pretty great idea. And one of the reasons I was revisiting a Divine Tracker Ranger I built a while ago. With the Travel blessing, they can be quite mobile.
- Eldritch Heritage
Possibly a good idea. I'm looking for stuff that works well for martial classes. Need to take a closer look.
- Focus on unusual tactics/combos and/or combat maneuvers.
Believe it or not, I always do. My last Barbarian build was focused on unarmed strikes, style feats and combat maneuvers. I also really enjoy using characters with reach weapons, but they are nearly always accompanied by spell casting.
- Try to play a Brawler for Martial Flexibility.
I like the idea of using Martial Flexibility, it's the rest of the class that worries me. I fear that if I play a Brawler, I'll be just as bored out-of-combat as I currently am in-combat. :/
- Try a PoW class.
Not possible due to GM restrictions, but it's good advice.
- Use [specific build].
While a possible solution, I'm looking for ideas that can help with martial characters in general (since there are 3 games where I'm bored right now). Still, I might very well try said build or at least steal some ideas from it.
3pp and homebrew is allowed on a case-by-case basis, but the GM is reluctant to use/allow them.
A couple of interesting combat maneuver programs that come to mind...
Animal Ally/Companion: Wolf + Paired Opportunists + Scythe Greater Drag + Greater Trip (Wolf) + Coordinated Maneuvers + Tandem Trip.
Hamatula Strike + Grabbing Style + *stab to death while grappled* and/or *pin, stab to death while pinned* and/or *pin/turn into baggage, stab something else*.